#sleepysundae

Let's set some groundwork here before I get into this lengthy post which has turned into a full on essay.

I don't condone all of Sleepy's actions. I know my regular audience has common sense, but I'll say for those new who might come across this essay. Don't any of you DARE go you bothering her or any of her friends over this bit of criticism. This entire situation is troublesome enough. I'm just here to get some things off my chest and to keep it moving.

For Sleepy's hardcore fans. I get it, you're afraid that The Dragon Slayer might be cancelled over all the criticism she's received. Have more faith in her. That said, only Sleepy knows this, and your actions are not helping. Harassing others in her name is not the sort of support she's looking for.

Reading a webcomic is a choice. Sleepy doesn't owe anyone this comic or any other comic. On the flip side, no one owes her their time as a reader, especially with so many forms of entertainment out there. There's a balance and respect that needs to be achieved between an author and their audience and vice versa.

For those just around to stir the pot, how about you don't? At the end of the day this is just media consumption and media criticism. There are real people behind each screen, and sending them threatening or harmful messages for sport or amusement is just fucked up. No one needs or deserves that kind of heat.

On with the actual essay.

Back in February, I decided The Dragon Slayer just wasn't for me. This is why I almost never talk about it on this blog or my WordPress blog, and only share the occasional constructive criticism regarding the story. I said I was done, and I wasn't going to actively follow the comic at all.

My decision to stop reading was a mix of Sleepy Sundae handling heavy topics such as sexual assault and incest way too carelessly, and her fans insisting she could do no wrong. I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, as I had a great time reading White Tail and To Catch a Star. Anyone following my WordPress blog from December 2024 to February 2025 can see the three times I wrote about TDS in my weekly round up introduction paragraphs.

TWWR Round Up 12/30/2024-- The Last Rund Up of the Year

TWWR Round Up 01/13/2025-- Airing Out the Dirty Laundry and Flinging Dirt

TWWR Round Up 02/10/2025-- A Curse From the Gods

I even asked my regular readers for their thoughts regarding the comic in my 1/13/2025 post. Those interested in responding said they were mostly negative on the comic, and stopped reading because it wasn't for them. Two were even baffled at the choice to include incest in a Greek myth (Perseus) which actually did not have it. One was more than willing to give the comic a chance, but could see the mistakes Sleepy was falling into when covering dark themes. Those words were written in January, but they almost read like prophecy now considering what's happening. All the way down to the "dubious consent" probably being sexual assault through coercion.

So here we all months after The Dragon Slayer made its debut, and all the critics who warned that Sleepy's handling of SA in this comic would be a problem were right. I passively discovered this through my friends who are still reading, and following hashtags on Tumblr once in a while.

The problem has gotten to the point where the comic is on hold for a month, and she's considering if she wants to continue or not. It's less that she's worried about the story, but that other comic creators (which she wisely did not name) blocked her over it. We will likely never know why, and that's okay. Blocks happen. So Sleepy opened up her comment section on ComicFury and asked for constructive criticism and feedback. That formed a slurry of toxicity between her most zealous supporters, those actually trying to leave helpful feedback, and those there to stir the pot.

Then things took another unexpected turn when Sleepy had to return to shut the comments section down. Then she had to return again and admonish those who had taken it upon themselves to attack other comic creators on CF, trying to discover who had blocked Sleepy. They weren't named for this exact reason. Good lord.

To put it bluntly, as someone looking in from the outside who took the advice of "don't like, don't read," this is all a mess. Feels like waking up to find a dumpster on fire outside of your window. If I'm feeling this way, man does my heart go out to those other comic creators, and Sleepy as well. I'm completely certain her fans attacking other webcomic artists wasn't what she wanted at all.

What on Earth happened?

To be blunt (sorry if I come off like an ass), a good chunk of this on Sleepy, and another chunk is on the zealous fans that feel the need to defend her at EVERY turn-- even when she didn't ask them to. You're probably wondering how I can both emphasize with and find fault with Sleepy. We all fuck up. We all do stupid shit we don't want to own up to because of our pride/ego, and the consequences don't give a damn. Sugarcoating this is not doing anyone any favors. Sometimes you just have to say the thing. Even so...

I get it.

I get it.

I absolutely get it.

Doubly so when this is your hobby, and you have a full-time job doing something else. You don't want to spend your free time putting out fires.

BUT, this goes back to Sleepy's handling of sexual assault, consent, and how she handled criticism in back when The Dragon Slayer debuted. The issue is not that these topics are in her comics. Yes, there are a chunk of people out there tired of seeing these themes in comics, especially xenofiction. However, those people will gripe a bit, maybe you nudge them to move on when they don't do so naturally. If that doesn't work, block them if they keep on hounding you.

From my own experiences with this comic, and those criticizing this comic, it's how Sleepy herself treated the subject that turned them off. These are heavy subjects. You need to treat them with the respect and gravity they deserve. For example when King Crisis chased down Dandy in an attempt to rape his own daughter, he bit her in the ass to make her fall. In the author's notes section on DeviantArt, was the joke "He bit the butt." (After being called out on it, Sleepy removed it from the page on DA.)

Here are three comments from January regarding page 17:

Given how dark and heavy this scene is, a joke is completely inappropriate. This comic wasn't set up as a dark comedy, and nothing in that scene was funny. We were about to watch a father force himself on his daughter. But before that happened, there was further humiliation by making her submit first with that clacking noise which essentially means "don't hurt me." Crisis was someone Dandy was supposed to trust to keep her safe-- not violate her. This is the moment where I knew I was done with TDS and stopped reading. I do feel better knowing Dandy was rescued by Dyktor, but that scene made my skin crawl in a way that Home, a comic with similar themes (and a terrible handing of them) never did. (Mercifully, those moments mostly happened off-screen prior to the start of that comic.) Also, my reasoning was if Sleepy didn't consider this scene to be a big deal, and the actual SA was coming later, then yikes. No, thank you.

If I wanted to be horrified about SA in fiction that feels overly gratuitous, I'd rewatch Mad Bull 34, Sword for Truth, or THAT episode of Valvrave: The Liberator. (Side note: I'm talking as one of the five people who adored Valvrave as a beautiful mess. My only regret is not being able to afford it on Blu-ray or DVD a decade ago because Aniplex of America releases are expensive. Still, the anime deserves all the flak it got, especially for the rape episode. And you better believe fans debated about consent regarding that episode in discussion forums. It got ugly fast and killed my interest in fan groups.)

Back to TDS.

I wasn't the only one who felt this way, as people on DA pointed out the content warnings weren't strong enough, or that the author's comments were out of line. The response was to shut down comments for the remainder of the scene. The author had every right to do this, but what came next made things worse. She complained about concerned commenters on DA to her audience on ComicFury, as if there were zero valid concerns on DA. People who pointed out the same issues on CF had their comments removed.

To be fair, she did update the content warnings, though they should be front and center. But everyone who had complained about that particular issue remained blocked. It's one hundred percent within an author's right to do so, but it's not a great look if you're trying to build a thoughtful and chill community.

From then on, comments would be opened and closed for various scenes. Anyone who had any kind of criticism was shut down and allowed to be dogpiled by zealous fans. This behavior where zealous fans attack more critical fans should have been stamped out, not encouraged. She did it for To Catch a Star, and people got the message. Most of those complaints again were concerned with the author's handling of said topics, not the topics themselves.

One example among many is naming a rape victim "S'melie," (pronounced "smelly") making her out to be a villain when she was actually a victim judging by all that happened to her. Then Sleepy insisting she consented to sex, when the act was actually sexual assault by coercion. If you have sex with someone under false pretenses, even if that person said "yes," it's still assault.

Ever watch 1984's Revenge of the Nerds? There was a scene where the jock's girlfriend sleeps with one of the nerds, because it was dark, he was wearing a Darth Vader mask, and he tricked her into thinking she slept with her boyfriend. She had a good time and wasn't upset, but it was still rape by deception. She consented to sex with one person, and actually slept with another person. Yes, Revenge of the Nerds is a comedy, that scene was played for laughs, but a rape still happened.

In this case of this horse comic, S'melie was told by Calycanthus who was in an altered state of mind (a stronger than usual heat/urges) that by mating with him during the off-season she'd be giving birth to the child of the Immortal Dragon. Her original herd stallion told her "no" because the foal would have a hard time surviving the winter. So Calycanthus used his position of power and lied to her, while also taking advantage of her altered state. He used his position as a priest of the Immortal Dragon to lie and take advantage of Dandy as well.

Again, I'm not saying Sleepy shouldn't have written these scenes. Only that she should not be defending them as consent when they are not. Just let the act be what it is-- sexual assault. Calycanthus is a manipulative bastard, no need to sugarcoat his actions. He IS a villain, right? This IS a dark comic, right? Let the villains be the monsters they are.

There are webcomics that handle the issue of sexual assault and even child grooming very well. For me, Follow Your Heart is the gold standard of how an author should tackle these subjects. First up is an extremely strong warning page. Readers can't miss it. When Mouseclaw coerces Sootkit, later Sootpaw into having sex with him (multiple times), Night the Kitten never makes light of these actions. She never jokes about it. She prepares the audience for exactly what's about to happen, and makes sure she and the audience never condone Mouseclaw's actions. She then goes a step further with her content and trigger warnings. Night informs anyone who was a victim of this type of abuse that it's not their fault, and there are places to seek help complete with links to said help. If needed, comment sections are closed for these scenes, and readers are warned they will be blocked if they use other pages to talk about it. Expectations are set and there are no surprises.

That's how you tackle dark subjects with the gravity they deserve, and how you moderate a comments section. The alternative is letting little fires smolder, and emboldening more zealous fans to the point where they think it's okay to attack other creators in your name. Next thing you know that smoldering fire is a full-on fire tornado.

If you don't want criticism at all, stick to your guns. Don't let people argue or publicly take sides in an argument. You'll have to be okay with not being liked, or even having critique blogs popup where people vent their frustrations with your work. Not everyone is going to like your characters, or world building and will criticize or ridicule them in their own spaces. I'm not sure why people think this is harassment of hobbyist creators that put their work out into the public, but similar stuff is fine for large indie creators, or corporate IP. "Fan" is short for "fanatic" and most giving the critique want to see said work improve. As long as criticism doesn't veer into harmful stuff like actual harassment campaigns, doxxing, or calling for violence, then "don't like, don't read" also applies when coming across (hopefully constructive) criticism.

So how does Sleepy extract herself from this mess? First, I think taking a break from the comic to reassess is a good thing. It's clear that the criticism is bothering her, but if people keep saying the same things over and over again, there usually is something wrong. Basically, if 100 people tell you that you're an asshole, you might be an asshole. I AM NOT calling Sleepy an asshole here. She seems to be a pretty chill, very reasonable person. In this case, her love of this story and her characters made her unwilling to accept any flaws or criticism which again circles back around to all of… this. If she had beta readers, they absolutely failed her.

Here are a few solutions that could work:

1. If TDS is that personal of a story, take the comic as is, and continue updating it as a Patreon-only affair. Fans get what they pay for, and anyone else who wants to read the comic can pay for it. If there are critics there, they'll likely not say anything to stir up trouble on Patreon for fear of a ban. Being banned hits different when you pay to access something. This might not shut down the critics dedicated enough to talk about issues they have, but it won't be a firestorm like on ComicFury. And hey, they still paid you to read your work even if they don't like it.

2. If this comic is to be public with no changes, turn off comments. Do. Not. Turn. Them. Back. On. Not under ANY circumstance. Accept that people will be frustrated with your work, and may block you, but they likely won't confront you directly. If you want to put a darker story out in the public, and you handle said subjects poorly, you'll still have defenders, but you run the risk of gaining detractors as well. And some might just hate read because the story and said handling is entertaining enough to them.

3. Leave the start unchanged, but keep the feedback and criticism in mind for future pages. This would be a scenario of the end is better than the beginning. It won't satisfy everyone, but people can at least say you tried and will respect you for it. Your hardcore fans might feel like you changed your vision, but they'll likely come to terms with it. Your words have more power than you think.

4. Redo the comic and treat the heavier matters with the respect it deserves. Maybe consider an apology or an "I was wrong" statement about the more common critiques. See point above about your hardcore fans. People might be wary, but if the major points are addressed, most will at least admire your integrity. Even if they've decided they won't be back for this story.

And no, I don't think Sleepy should run from her name or rebrand. I don't think she ought to cancel this comic either. She has good previous stories (TDS has potential), and personal integrity-- including being willing to refund anyone on Patreon who asks. I think this was a blunder, but isn't something she can't recover from given enough time after The Dragon Slayer ends. Or if she apologizes for not doing enough research or having enough respect for the topics she wrote about. All of this will blow over, AND people have short memories.

Anyway, I said way more than I thought I would about this subject. Wow.

There's been something on my mind regarding people's rightful concerns with the excessive amount of on-screen sexual assaults in The Dragon Slayer, and how when talking about them the number I see most often is 4. This made me wonder if it's accurate when people say there's 4 assaults so far, and so I went back and sifted through the pages of the comic to find out.. and unfortunately, I discovered the number is actually a lot more than 4.

So, I've compiled a list of all the instances so far in the comic where SA occurs or is mentioned to have occurred below. Spoilers for the comic, obviously.

1.

Aaand the first assualt occurs just seven pages in, when a random stallion attempts to assault Dandy. And Dandy (our current main character at this point) hasn't even had a line of dialog yet! Oh boy.

2.

The second SA attempt happens on page 12 to 19.. and it's Crisis assaulting Dandy. His own (underage) daughter. Two SAs in less than the first 20 pages.. just 6 pages between eachother.. what an introduction.

3.

Page 60. A random stallion tries to assault Pierces' (UNDERAGE) older sister.

4?.

Page 63-64. Just a few pages after the last attempted SA.. And now we come to the first instance that may or may not count. Caly is ABOUT to try and coerce Dandy in order to SA her but is cut off. Does this count?

5.

Another few pages later, page 67. Caly is suggested to have attempted to assault/come onto the mystery mare and then chases her down/attempts to assault her when she doesn't reciprocate. That's 3 seperate instances of SA or attempted SA within 7 pages..

6+??

Dyktor mentions a few pages later that Caly has been chasing mareS PLURAL who are unwilling. Suggesting multiple previous assaults off-screen. Notably, all Dyktor has to say about that is that it's "wrong" and "messed up". Does this count?? Perhaps not as it isn't on-screen?? But it is said to have happened. So..

6??7??

Page 83. King Severe threatens to "pick off your(Dyktor's) mares one by one". Is he threatening assault?? Sexual or?? Is he just threatening to kill them?? The wording is unclear but knowing the story's world/context so far makes this seem like he's threatening SA. Does this count?? Maybe, maybe not.

6.

Page 97. S'mile's SA via coercion at the hand(hoof?) of Caly. Notably the one that Sleepy insists doesn't count as SA..

7.

And that brings us to the most recent example. Pages 129-130. Caly assaults Dandy via coercion. It should be noted that Sleepy doesn't call this what it is(rape!) just as she didn't with S'mile's assault. Because apparantly no guys, it's not rape! He just manipulated her into having sex! It's toootally different! /sar

So, if you were counting along that would mean we have at least 6 on-screen SAs minimum, or 7 if you count threats of sexual assault. 8 if you count that and the attempt at SA via coercion that was cut off before anything could happen, but later is attempted again and does happen. Or, a maximum of 9/10+ if you count the additional assaults that were said to have happened in dialog..

This would mean, if we count all of the examples up to page 130(the most recent SA), that on average there is an instance of on-screen or mentioned SA every 21.6 pages at minimum, OR one SA every 13 pages at the maximum.

That is frankly, in my opinion, insane. People really were right when they say we get an SA every 20 pages..

An old ask, but still relevant. Thanks anon!

There's been a snowball effect lately.

First, the people on Deviantart migrating to Comicfury has brought some... Intense people. Rude people. The kind that wished S'melie to die the first time she appeared. Nasty readers.

Some creators don't know how to handle them, or to handle bigger audiences in general. Both are understandable, handling an audience like that is challenging at best and traumatizing at worst.

Second, because of that, as I said, some authors have realized that they aren't fit to handle a difficult audience. But instead of taking it easy, restricting all comments, taking breaks or whatever, they have a breakdown.

Publishing furry/animal art on the Internet will always attract weirdos. Complaining about it is normal, but you won't help yourself if you get caught in a spiral of self-pity without looking for solutions. It's like crying because you got wet in the rain while refusing to wear a raincoat.

And some of the comments aren't even that harsh, come on. No, Jhonny, you're not being harassed because some users say they hate your OC. If they have read your work so far, they might like it anyways. I've received worst in this blog and in other platforms.

Third, TDS happened. A lot of negativity has surrounded this comic before it hits 20 pages, mostly because of the "he bit the butt" comment on Deviantart. And it became worse and worse, on one hand because of Sleepy messing things up and on the other because this comic had a lot of readers.

And here's when my tinfoil theory begins. Again, just a theory, not an accusation towards anyone.

Will the "baby dragon," who is actually Dandy's nephew and Pierces' cousin, ever have a name? It's so confusing to me because, when Pierces was born, the very next scene is with her father immediately asking what her name is; therefore, in this universe, mares tend to name their offspring immediately. With that in mind, why was "baby dragon" never named? He was given the dignity of a burial, with flowers laid atop his grave (indicating he was loved), but was never named. He lived for almost an entire winter too... Months without a name. This really bothers me because it is an example of weak storytelling and gives off a weird vibe having a baby exist, with evidence of sentience, to live for 9 pages and be beaten by one of the main characters.

It also feels like he died as a tool to punish S'mellie for being what the author describes as "the jerk squad," who, mind you, supposedly consented to manipulative sex under false pretenses while in an impaired, strongly driven state after humans intervened with her physiology. Now, I understand S'mellie was convinced her son was a child of the Dragon, which means Pierces wouldn't see him as family either, so, why have a name? However... The mother has to interact with her son and has to call him something, a NAME, ideally. Was she never addressing him by name during his short life for nearly all of winter? It's confusingly inconsistent and the underlying implications of his existence and death rubs me the wrong way.

"Based on people's reactions to S'melie, I cannot trust that you will not also say horrible things about Pierces too."

I fully agree with Sleepy about the absolutely horrific comments she received about Millie, but I guess that's what you get out of an audience she cultivated when she blocked and shunned away people who criticised the terribly writing in her story and let all the other trigger-happy people roam. What a lot of people said about Millie was absolutely terrible, simply for the reason of her having attitude?? And it really made me question the ability of critical thinking of her comment section.

The other part of this sentence however? Makes it really come across as if Sleepy really wants people to like Percy and gives the idea she's upset just by the idea that people don't. And I honestly question this? Like, Sleepy, my guy, so far Percy has been a bratty, aggressive bully to literally anyone but Dandy, including all the other foals in the herd she was born into and the herd stallion himself, and now she's attacking a dying baby because "my dead is dead and I am sad"

I'm a person who [admittedly] left a [very rude] comment on the earlier pages, after Sleepy made that "he touched the butt" joke on the page where Crisis is threatening to rape his daughter. The gist of it was Sleepy sucks for making this kind of joke, not understanding why it wasn't okay, and since she clearly didn't bother to do research [something she has admitted to] and cannot handle themes such as incest and SA, especially because she was having a conniption about being asked to tag appropriately, then she shouldn't be writing about it at all. Then I asked her to block me and I haven't looked at TDS since -

Yesterday and oh boy do I feel kind of vindicated rn? What the fresh hell is this. Why is the MC named after a dick joke. Why did she name a rape victim "Smelly". How does she not understand that NO, a character being drugged =/= dubious consent. Why is she so obsessed with beating Dandy down and why is Pierces just Ata 2.0.