#side x

there's a good few articles about combating shame and bigotry around SSA, which I feel can be unaddressed a lot of the time. (like the articles "love is not hate" and "Why I’m Not Ashamed of My Same-Sex Attractions")

it does overall recommend against labeling oneself as "gay", BUT never in any harsh way, and it in no way detracts from the value of the site/project. even the articles that do are still worth a read (the article "please don't call me gay" sums up my personal attitude pretty well) and there's still some varied perspectives since the articles are submitted by different people.

basically I think anyone who could benefit from a blog like this would absolutely benefit from this site. it's tone really sound and comforting and many of the articles are addressed to people who are struggling, especially youth.

God bless! <3

oh and in regards to my last ask, on chastity.com there's an article titled, "Recently I’ve been feeling attraction for some other guys at my high school. I have not told anyone yet because I don’t even understand what’s going on in me. I love God, but I’m scared and I don’t know what to do. Any advice?" that I think would be really good here.

Here's the site for anyone interested! love is not hate article why im not ashamed article

please dont call me gay (i have issues with this article but I'll include it for the sake of intellectual honesty) I couldn't find the last article mentioned but I would be interested in reading it tbh--that probably would have been helpful when I had similar issues lol.

Sorry I got caught up in watching this video. I consider the 3 people in it to be very decent sources, indeed, though I'm much less familiar with Christopher Yuan. I had planned to read his book but haven't read it yet.

Mrs. Butterfield has a very interesting perspective on SSA issues given her background. I don't necessarily agree with her on everything, she has a few strange takes, for example she also espouses a view on "exclusive psalmnody", that is, claiming that Christians shouldn't sing hymns or other christian music, but ONLY the psalms because they are in the Bible.

Ironically, she HAS written a lot of stuff on the need for closer Christian community and relationships, so it may be that she is here attempting to "balance" this stuff or something.

So... looking at this video they start off addressing not "friendship" as such but a very specific concept called "spiritual friendship", which is a terminology used by specific groups. Now, I hope these guys are misunderstanding what's going on here because I would love to believe the best of the folks who are a part of this movement. But what they're attacking is actually this idea promoted by an organization called ReVoice that it's a good idea for SSA people to form these "covenental" relationships with a person they're already same-sex attracted to. He also mentions that the book says some people in these relationships "embrace non-sexual romance". It's also been described by some as a "sexless marriage".

Before I get into it one other thing I like about the video is that Rosaria makes a really great point about Gnosticism and "secret knowledge". The idea that there need be this new terminology or "neologisms" and concepts whose spiritual meanings are known only to the initiated and that they can only be understood because by those who have unique personal experience is a very gnostic idea.

And one thing Christopher Yuan is very correct about is that from this (Side B) movement there is a great deal of messaging ambiguity, which is a major complaint of mine as well about that movement.

Then they get on to this part of the video where it's discussed how some people think intersex conditions existed prior to the fall, which is a bizarre claim on its surface since these people are frequently very sick from their condition, as well as obviously the "He created them male and female" line. But that's not as relevant to your concerns.

But I understand why you feel concerned about aspects of the video & the messaging.

That's because isolated from the context of SSA, none of the things mentioned are actually bad things to do with your friends. Cuddling. Celebrating important dates. Even living together, or in communal settings (as much as they dunk on it because it's inspired by the monasteries) or moving from place to place together. So when does this become unhealthy? I don't wanna give an "I know it when I see it" answer but. I think it's when a person has a temptation and they're not fleeing that temptation, instead they're trying to see how close they can get without going over.

So like yes. Individuals called to celibacy can struggle with community and need to form strong communities, and I feel like it's adding to the Bible to arbitrarily condemn the forms this takes. (That is, to condemn communal living would be adding to the Bible.) Again I feel like also this conversation is missing an honest look at pre-20th century norms which might include unrelated adults called "Uncles" or "Aunts" living with a family (surprising number of cases of unrelated household members getting, "adopted" as it were or at least that's my impression). None of this stuff should be considered intrinsically related to sexuality in my opinion. By contrast, the concept of "romance" is intrinsically related to sexuality.

(As an aside, Yuan totally butchered the term "bromance" - this is an older term that actually has nothing to do with homosexuality, it's an ironic/humorous term for an emotional or close friendship. It's fallen out of general use now because people take the idea of friendships becoming gay too seriously and therefore the ironic intent is lost.)

Then later Rosaria Butterfield gets to the part about excessive androgen production in people with XX chromosomes, and her response to this is, "Or maybe the fall just caused us to desire things that God hates". My response to this is really, "does she even know what the word intersex means"?

To me those last two points contribute to my general sense that the commentators are willing to speak without fully knowing what they're talking about.

Back on the topic of "friendship", you have to realize that even if all Christian relationships ARE to be defined in a family context, we ARE family. All Christians are brothers and sisters. So I don't see that as limiting. [maybe this is the closest thing to an answer to your original question]

Personally my views are marked by the fact that I do NOT see a smooth continuum between "friendship" and "romance", as it is not a matter of degree but of nature. That's why I say "I know it when I see it." SSA creeping into a friendship will corrupt its nature in a way that any degree of closeness will not. I don't see any way of policing this by policing people's actions. It is not an external sin, it is a sin of the heart.

…

So my immediate problem is the growing fundamental misunderstanding that Side B = Ex-Gay.

Side B was in fact formed, historically, specifically, in reaction to the ex-gay movement itself.

History lesson: the ex-gay movement, which you will likely recognize through its tangible theology-in-practice by its multiple conversion therapy camps and organizations (Exodus International is one of the most recognized, which closed in 2013 with an explicit apology for its treatment of queer folks and an acknowledgement that conversion therapy doesn’t work).

These camps, organizations, and ministries proved painful and disorienting to their attendees, leaving them particularly vulnerable to crises of faith (if God is supposed to cure me of homosexuality, and he doesn’t… iS there a God?), theologically unsound, ultimately ineffective on the whole, and indeed deadly.

In the wake of these ex-gay conversion therapy camps, queer Christians who attended and came out just as gay as before were met with a fundamental crises: what do we do??

Some decided that the church was wrong, and formed Side A for Affirming-Gay-Relationships within the Christian faith.

Others decided that the historical church teachings were correct and in line with natural theology—marriage is reserved for a unitive, procreative couple (ie 1 man 1 woman), but rejected the theology promoted by the ex-gay movement, ie that you can be converted into a heterosexual if you pray hard enough, and your journey to Heaven first and foremost involves this conversion of your orientation.

Side B therefore cannot involve people who wholeheartedly reject homosexuality as an orientation, or consider themselves “saved” from it.

In summation: I wish folks who align with the ex-gay movement would stop tagging their posts as #Side B here.

And in an attempt to plunge the deeper theological question at stake here: if conversion therapy work, if ex-gay theology true and practicable, if gay labels do not apply…why you would keep talking about your homosexuality here? Please, at the very least, stay the course on your own internalized logic.

Not gonna lie, after that last ask I was kind of expecting someone to ask this!

Side A and side B are two of three views of the morality of homosexuality. The third is side X.

Side X takes the view that LGBTQ+ in any form is an affront to God, wrong and sinful. This view is linked to things like conversion therapy, "pray the gay away," and the idea that even feeling homosexual desire is sinful. Some side X people consider anything aside from straight attraction to be wrong, including asexuality.

Side A (for Affirming) takes the complete opposite view. They believe the Bible, rightly interpreted, does not condemn homosexuality as we understand it in a modern context, but only condemns pederasty and power imbalances--so, an older man with a youth would be condemned, but two people of about the same life experience in a committed relationship would be okay.

Side B is the middle ground, as it were. This is the view that LGBTQ+ relationships are sinful, but the desires themselves are simply part of who we are. What makes it sinful or not is how we choose to act with those desires.

Side B Christians would describe themselves as gay or bi and simply choose not to have same-sex relationships. Sam Allberry, a British pastor, is a prominent example of a man who acknowledges his same-sex attraction and chooses to live celibate in obedience to Christ.

I would describe myself as a side B ally. I'm entirely straight, but I have multiple side B friends whom I support and love. I have a couple of side A friends, and while I disagree with them, I do believe they truly love the Lord.

As for side X, most of the circles I grew up in are side X. I strongly disagree with them and how they approach the LGBTQ+ community, but I know most of them simply have a strong desire for holiness and for obeying God.