#septypaws

Those of you who follow my Twitter know that I cut off SeptyPaws--because I quite literally tweeted that last night.

By the sounds of it, I'm far from the only one. Neko Koda--the person behind #SupportSeptySquad--made a post on TwitLonger regarding her decision to cut Septy off.

Meanwhile, a couple of days ago Kumo uploaded a call various people had with Septy--which began with LioConvoy grilling them over a situation I'll go into more detail about in a moment. However, I want to note just how angry and saddened Lio sounds during the call--coming from somebody who has known Lio for half a decade, I can safely say this is the most honestly upset I've ever heard him. To be honest, it actually made me tear up listening to how frustrated somebody who is usually calm and collected even in the face of the worst people was.

Coming from somebody who has known Lio for as long as I have, I know his critics commonly accuse him of being a hothead who goes off on everybody who even slightly wrongs him and will mindlessly scream at anybody who does not agree with whatever they believe. In truth, Lio is one of the most patient and easy to talk to people I have ever come across--it just so happens that the people who levy this accusations against him are not the people who talked to him with an honest conversation in mind. The reality has always been that the only things you need to do if you want to have a pleasant conversation with Lio are not get defensive, not get theatrical, and not lie to him. He is willing to talk basically anything out with the person in question on the condition that you keep your ego at the door and tell him honestly what's going on.

But this post is not about the various slaps Septy has gotten over the past couple of days, nor is it about the fact that he managed to put Lio in an emotional state I've honestly never seen him in before. Instead, I want to talk about what caused me to cut off Septy during this situation--because it's something I really don't feel is talked about enough.

I have two rules when it comes to people I talk to: I do not tolerate dishonesty nor do I tolerate special pleading. In my experience, Septy has engaged in both of these thing multiple times.

Regarding hypocrisy, I want to begin by talking about Septy's recent drawing of CarmenRider being gang raped by Prison Mate Luke and Kai Weiss. The tags for this image on the Rule 34 website include things like "handcuffed," "handcuffs," "non-consensual," "rape," "revenge sex," and "taped mouth."

Now Septy's a NSFW and has used the OCs of other people in the past. For example, at one point Septy made a piece of art of Neko Koda and CarmenRider's character Virgo giving a boob job to CarmenRider's OC. Neko Koda has said she's fine with porn being made of her OC as long as it's not rape porn, and Carmen has said she's fine with porn being made of her OC regardless of what it is, so I don't see an issue with this.

However, the choice to throw two totally random people into this drawing--including one who has basically left the internet because of the backlash they got--just seems uncalled for. Even ignoring my own thoughts on making porn of real people and people's OCs, I personally think the choice to add two people who Carmen has previously gone after--again, one of which was really only guilty of being an opportunistic liar and who basically left commentary all together after being called out--to be fucking terrible. This is especially hypocritical because Septy railed against Carmen using a picture of Neko Koda being raped as a thumbnail for one of her videos--when the picture of Koda, as tasteless and shitty as I thought it was, was both less explicit and didn't have anybody in it other than Koda.

Septy has had two excuses for this:

They were commissioned to make this art.

They made it to get back at Carmen for the thumbnail of Neko Koda being raped.

We'll ignore the fact that these two explanations are totally contradictory--was it made for revenge or to get money?--and instead go through them one by one. If it's the first one, then Lio had already told Septy that they have places to go and people they can talk to if they're ever in exactly this situation. The fact is, "I did it for the money," always an understandable reason for making the art, is not an excuse.

However, I want to break down the second one in a tad more detail because it was honestly the reason I cut Septy off. If Septy really made this piece of art to punish CarmenRider (which, I should note, wouldn't even work because she's made it very clear she is fine with all NSFW artwork of her OCs), then what they engaged in basically amounts to correctional rape through art.

For those unaware, correctional rape is the concept of using rape as a punishment for some crime they admitted--usually stepping out of line in a heavily patriarchal society. For example, a woman who is found to be in a lesbian relationship might be raped as some attempt to "teach her a lesson." It is one of the most evil things a civilization could possibly engage in. Here Septy is bringing back that same concept--and dragging two people into it--against a transgender woman with a girlfriend through art. That is far more tone death than what Carmen did to Neko Koda--which, I want to make it clear, was still terrible in every way.

In general, I've always known Septy to be a bit of a shady character and somebody who appeared to have a bias in their own favor. Outside of some light conversations in Carmen's server, the first real experience I had with them was the video on Kumo's channel with them, Definitely Board Oranges, Neko Koda, Ghetsis, and NazeNation where they all talked about CarmenRider.

I later commented on this video along with Fractured Light.

Outside of Koda commenting asking me for a live debate (which I'll get to in a minute), the only person from that video to comment on it was SeptyPaws, who said the following.

First off, I just want to point out how they singled out our take on their segment as "awful" and "one-sided." One has to wonder if they thought the rest of my takes were fine, or if they were only paying attention to what I said about them.

I should also note that nothing we did--even according to Septy--would make either myself of Fractured Light hypocrites--that's just not what that word means. For that matter, we were judging the video, not Septy as a person, so asking for elaboration on points made in the video would totally miss the point of commentating on that video specifically. Obviously if I were making sweeping statements about Septy as a person I would ask them for more information, but I was simply judging how they came off in that video.

Anyway, this comment then got tore apart by Fractured Light, Toganium, and Renbo64.

Meanwhile, Septy was ranting in my Discord DMs about basically the same thing they said in the comments. However, they also told me that everything wrong with the video was really the fault of Kumo, and how if only they had some more time the segment would have been perfect. Mind you, why they were taking my criticisms so personally when they also say the issues with their segment were totally outside their control was something Septy never explained. Nor did they explain, upon further reflection, why exactly any of this new information would disprove what Fractured and I said.

Most of you know what happened next, I had a live debate with Septy, Neko Koda, and Kumo.

At roughly 1:57:00, I asked Septy why they were no longer blaming Kumo for the flaws in their segment/the video more generally in front of Kumo despite doing that in private. The end result was Septy and Kumo going back and forth for a quarter of an hour--in a debate where all three of them were supposed to be fighting me.

Well, the drama between CarmenRider and SeptyPaws is basically over at this point. Septy released a three and a half hour video on the situation--specifically going after Carmen's commentary on the video they did with Neko Koda--and I even have my own segment in it.

Septy wants the situation to be done, and I have no plans to keep it going. However, I also have some iron I want to strike while it's still hot. To be blunt, I was not a fan of CarmenRider to begin with, but after all of has been unfolded I think it's fair to say that Carmen is one of the worst people I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. For that matter, the fact that she basically tried to frame much of her distaste of Koda and Septy as defending me is a special kind of disgusting that I am not going to forgive any time soon.

Say hello to your new recurring customer on this blog, folks--right next to Lily Orchard and some others I sadly have not had the ability to introduce to you.

For those who don't know, I also have a political blog on the website Medium. I mention this because back in January I wrote an article on the controversy around lolicon, and CamenRider was mentioned quite heavily.

In the article, I make the simple point that no other form of pornography is treated the same way Carmen treats lolicon. For example, 120 Days of Sodom is still considered sadistic pornography even though it's a novel--meaning no actual people were harmed in its writing.

I mention this because on 9/21/2022, CarmenRider had a recorded Discord call with Kumo on this very subject, where she kept denying that lolicon is child pornography.

Most of her claims are utter nonsense. At one point she says without any evidence that age of consent was created to punish prostitutes (one would think laws against prostitution already served that purpose) before saying she just read it on Quora. She also constantly goes back and fourth between arguing if lolicon is child pornography, if lolicon is illegal, and if lolicon is immoral. At one point, she'll say that there's nothing pedophilic about lolicon--before saying that actual pedophiles can use lolicon as a harmless outlet for their sexual desires. In order for it to be an outlet for pedophilic urges, something about it would need to attract pedophiles.

If you want to know more about the lolicon debate, Asalieri made a video a couple of months ago going into the topic and debunking the four most common arguments made in favor of it.

Asa mentions that the term "lolicon" comes from a shortening of the phrase "Lolita complex," but he doesn't go into detail about what that means. For those unaware, Lolita is a 1955 novel that shows a pedophilic relationship between Humbert Humbert and his kidnapped stepdaughter Dolores Haze. The term "Lolita" is so well known as a reference to sexual attraction towards young girls that Jeffery Epstein famously called his airplane "The Lolita Express." It should also be noted that the author of Lolita--Vladimir Nabokov-- based many of the examples of sexual abuse off of his own life.

It should also be noted that the novel never actually tries to show pedophilia in a positive light. Humbert is constantly viewed as nothing less than an amoral psychopath who no human being should have any sympathy for.

Carmen has a series of poor hypotheticals dedicated not so much to proving her point but really just to create as many artificial gray areas as humanly possible, here's me debunking one of them.

Even the premise of her attempting to find a grey area is nothing but a strawman. Nobody is claiming that a person in their twenties who is attracted to a seventeen year old is a pedophile--although some might call them a creep or a pervert. Pedophilia is basically a fetish for children who have not yet gone through puberty. It is a combination of the term "pedo" which means pre-pubescent (as seen in words like "pediatrician) and "philia" which basically means an abnormal fetish (as seen in words like "necrophilia").

Many of these same fallacies can be found in her conversation with Mushroom Girl--you know, the one that ended in her saying this.

However, even checking the rest of the conversation shows Carmen made a number of utterly nonsensical arguments. For example, at one point she says that people who use lolicon as a harmless way to express their pedophilic attractions aren't pedophiles.

Personally, I don't consider these people pedophiles but rather people who realize they have a disorder and want to fix/mend that so they can function as normal humans.

"Come on Ephrom, another post about CarmenRider! Why do you keep making these?"

For views and money of course, and no other reason.

What? I figured since CarmenRider is such a big fan of Just A Robot, I might as well take a joke from one of his videos to explain why I keep making these posts. For those curious, it was a joke I took from this video:

But seriously, I decided to write another post on this situation because there have been some updates that I feel are worth talking about. If you want to know the origin of the situation, I would recommend reading this post before continuing forward:

If must have been a good post, because Septy shared it on Twitter.

First off, the conversation I had in the comments of the CarmenRider's video continued. Specifically, JustTubeStuff decided to reply to one of my comments and wrote the following

I want to make it very clear that I do believe that Septy crossed a line, but I do not think Septy threatened to dox CarmenRider. All Septy said was that they hypothetically could have--and would have had they been the terrible person Carmen makes them out to be--and the comment flew totally over Carmen's head. Mind you, I don't even blame her considering she never saw the comment, she just saw Redd Gier telling her that Septy threatened to dox her. Again, no screenshot of what Septy said even exists because it was deleted so fast. (As somebody with both anger issues and an anxiety issue, I recognize that as a sign that somebody said something they want to take back or think could easily be taken the wrong way. You can say many things about Septy, but they are not one to double down on bad actions nor badly predict how their words will be heard.)

Still, I would say this is part of the pattern of Carmen mindlessly believing anything about the people she doesn't like, something she has done for so long I even mentioned it in my first post on the subject of her:

This post, I should note, was also shared by Septy on Twitter, so take that endorsement as you will:

Meanwhile, Septy uploaded a call with CallMeNil on their channel where the two talked about the situation:

In the video, Septy confirms basically what I assumed since the beginning. In a moment of anger, Septy said they could do something they had no intent of doing and quickly took it bad. Anybody who read my post the day before already figured this out--fuck, I'd argue that anybody who put so much as ten seconds of thought into this situation could have guessed that--but there's something else I want to point. If Carmen and her fans want to play of game of pointing to a hypothetical and using that as evidence that the person wants to do the thing they mentioned--or even that's an issue that Septy even considered this in the first (quite literally accusing them of a thought crime)--then I wish to remind everybody Carmen began her year with this hypothetical:

For those unaware, this is something Carmen said in a conversation with Mushroom Girl after the two had a back and fourth over the YouTuber Sensitive Society. If you want to know more about that, Neko Koda made a video on this topic, which can be viewed here:

Mushroom Girl--who was fourteen at the time--asked Carmen why she liked Lolicon, and Carmen said this.

Carmen tells the full story in this video:

I should also note, as Bummer Patrol pointed out on Twitter, this is an utterly nonsensical excuse:

I should also note, I do not believe that Carmen is a pedophile because of this comment. But somebody could easily come to that conclusion, as many people have. Is Carmen merely thinking about turning a fourteen year old into a "human fleshlight" (which she was somehow going to do over the internet--I should note) an issue on its own? I mean, one could easily make that case, but I would assume that it would more be a case of hyperbolic language as opposed to actual attraction.

I mean, we know some people came to that conclusion because that screenshot was used in a document which specifically called CarmenRider a pedophile because of that and many other comments:

I admit, I had to watch this video a couple of times in order to understand what Septy's crimes are. Best as I can tell, Septy said spur of the moment out of anger that they could leak Carmen's full name if they wanted to, which they then quickly took back. In fact, Septy took it back so quickly that we don't even have screenshots of these messages. However, the title of this video says that Septy threatened to do that, which is just wrong.

Or, I guess it's more accurate to say that we don't know if they said that. Septy said in later messages shown in Carmen's video that they just meant they could as revenge, not that they were going to:

Septy also said the same thing to Redd Gier, a moderator in CarmenRider's discord server, after they were informed Gier told Carmen about these messages:

Septy also denied it was a threat for a third time later--and might I remind you all, these are literally just screenshots from Carmen's video:

Carmen calls this an obvious lie based on--well, nothing. She doesn't have the message of Septy saying anything that would lead anybody to believe this is some kind of threat, so how the fuck does she know what Septy really meant? The only messages that might be able to confirm this have since been deleted--and even then, Septy took this back so fast that any chance of this being an actual threat is basically non-existent.

You know, in her call with The Senate, Carmen noted that her opposition was engaging in the same tactics somebody Just A Robot fought with in the past, specifically name dropping Kai Weiss.

In her response to Septy's and Neko's video on the situation, she made it clear that she was doing this because, since SeptyPaws works for Just A Robot, that means that they shouldn't be doing the same thing Kai Weiss did--or something. She also responds to Just A Robot recommending a video from Kai Weiss by saying she was incredibly surprised he'd do such a thing.

Never mind the fact that Just A Robot has never held a mindless vendetta against those he covers. To give just one example, Just A Robot went from making videos on Doodletones, to defending Doodletones against xX Icyhazard Xx, to working with Doodletones in a video on TheNamesJunkie from this year.

But I mention this because this tactic of taking somebody saying they can do something and using it as evidence they want to do something is the same thing done by somebody else Just A Robot battled with, TMossBoss. Specifically, Just A Robot told TMossBoss that he could flag TMossBoss's channel down, and TMossBoss took that as Just A Robot saying he wanted to flag TMossBoss's channel down, or even that he actually planned on doing it.

Anyway, I saw this video--the first one I showed, not the like seven I've embedded since--and was incredibly confused--so I took to the comments and expressed my lack of understanding with this video.

According to Google, Bobby Kotick is the CEO of Activison Blizzard and I have no idea what he has to do with the conversation Carmen and I were having. I seriously mean this, if somebody can please explain to me the connenction--well, send it as a submission or question.

And yes, this is part of Carmen's long history of randomly bringing up people she doesn't like that have nothing to do with the thing she's talking about. If you want to know more about that habit of hers, I pointed it out in this post:

Class Edgelord then joined the conversation:

I did type out a reply, but it appears to haven't been sent so I'l paraphrase it here: What exactly does Class want to do to hold Septy accountable? The best I can tell is that Class wants is either preemptive justice or punishment for what basically amounts to a thought crime. I mean that literally, because both Carmen and Class have said that the issue is that Septy even thought this in the first place--not that they were seriously going to do this.

Also, aren't these the same people who have told us over and over again that thoughts of pedophilia do not turn into child molestation? Why is it that thoughts turn into actions now when it's convenient?

Anyway, after this happened, I did something that it seems like neither Carmen nor Septy did, I actually tried asking Septy what happened. They confirmed to me exactly what I assumed happened, Septy got angry and said something regretful before quickly taking it back:

Septy also notes that they were not on their normal medication at the time, and that greatly impacted their decision making:

Some people might be wondering why I'm dedicating so many words on this topic, and it's because it's such a great microcosm for how Carmen acts. Even when she catches somebody she doesn't like doing something wrong, she decides that she has to hyperbolize it and engage with things in--and I don't like this term personally, but it really does fit--bad faith. And Carmen's fans are perfectly willing to go along with this.

Take this comment by a fellow named BurningSpeed:

Once again, I do not agree with SeptyPaws flagging CarmenRider--but this video is just disgusting, and I think it honestly shows the difference between the two sides in this drama. CarmenRider drove somebody to suicide, lied about it, commissioned art of Neko Koda getting rape shortly after he suicide attempt, leaked personal information about Neko Koda's life without doing any keep of double checking based on the words of an anonymous source, accused SeptyPaws of pedophilia, accused LioConvoy of pedophilia, accused those three of being some kind of mob who will force those who disagree to submit, and accused me of not having free will. And this is all just limiting it to this situation.

Meanwhile, SeptyPaws flagged one video of hers and took it back after less than a day. SeptyPaws was in the wrong to do that, sure. But if we're going to play the game of determining who should be sided with based off of the immoral actions of the people involved, CarmenRider still loses.

Those who read my previous post on Carmenider know that she will believe anything as long as it makes those who are against her look bad. In this video, she mindlessly compares SeptyPaws to Kai Weiss without explaining what those two people have in common. This is something Carmen also does a lot, I think the first person to point this out was Neko Koda in this video:

If Carmen doesn't like somebody, she has a weird habit of connecting that person with other people she doesn't like for basically no reason. Just watch her video on Liam McEvoy if you don't believe me:

In this video, she compares McEvoy to somebody named No One Asked and another person named Brittany Venti--even showing a long clip of her Brittany Venti at one point for basically no reason, even saying that Liam's point was contradicting something Venti said.

While on the topic, Carmen says she used so much of Septy's/Koda's video without commentary was because people accused me of lying by omission after Neko Koda's Angry Mob. However, that was never a criticism people had with that video. People primarily got onto me for misunderstanding the situation and making fun of Neko Koda's ascetics over actually addressing the points. People also didn't agree with what I had to say, but nobody to my memory accused me of lying. Fuck, even Septy didn't say I lied, but that I jumped the gun and didn't look into the situation enough:

While on the topic of this comment, Carmen likes saying I let Septy walk all over me. If that were the case, the co-op with FracturedLight would be deleted by now because Septy has asked me to either do that or remove their section multiple times. One of these times led to me saying I'd rather hang around Carmen (who Septy called a sociopath) over Septy (who I called a censor), hence Septy saying this:

Speaking of Fractured Light, he also didn't like my video on Septy, but he never said I was lying--instead, he said I made a comment which I couldn't know if it was true or not.

JustTubeStuff also left a particularly long comment, never saying I was lying but that my mindless hatred of Neko Koda led me to view her as the bad guy as opposed to any actual evidence:

Also, this was based on me misremembering--that was actually something Jase said in a video he did with Vida:

HeyItsCosmic, who is friends with Neko Koda and hates the SCC, also left a comment--and never said I was lying:

Both Jonie Roe and Michael Schomer left comments, again, not calling me a liar but saying that I should have taken this topic more seriously than I did:

Where are all the people saying I intentionally spread information I knew was wrong? You know, because that's what a lie is! Going through the seventy-three comments, most people believe it was an honest mistake on my part driven by a combination of mindless hatred for Neko Koda and a lack of willingness to look into the situation. Both of those, I should note, are perfectly valid criticisms as I have since come to realize. Although I might just be giving into what those people want--you know, to change my mind in accordance with new information. Fuck, the meanest comment I've gotten was from YoPalGal, who said me backing Carmen in the first place was entirely accidental.

And by the way, when I admitted I fucked up and said I wanted to do better, I was actually forgiven by this group:

Who has Carmen ever forgiven, exactly? Have you guys ever noticed that? Her shit list is constantly growing, but the only person I can think of who has ever been taken off of it is Kumo--which is not exactly a good sign. Carmen wants to tell the world we're these uptight, vengeful people--but we constantly allow others to make mistakes and grow from them--Carmen does not.

As for Carmen's criticisms of the strike itself, she is right that it's Neko's strike to file and not Septy's. For that matter, she is right that Septy would have had to use his legal name if he wanted to do a legal action like a copyright strike. Then she says that it was wrong for Septy to do this because other people in similar situations didn't do this--which is not how anything works. Just because somebody has the legal right/ability to do something does not mean they have to do that thing. For that matter, just because one person does not exercise their legal rights/abilities, that does not mean nobody else has the right to ever again.

Also, she leaves out the fact that Septy is commenting on a video that accused them of purger over using their internet name and not their legal one while reading out Septy's comment.

Carmen then goes on to say that Lio believed claims at face value without research regarding Bella--which, ironically, she presents no evidence for.

It should go without saying that I was against Septy flagging Carmen (and Septy has since retracted the strike request)--I believe Carmen's video fell under fair use, and although I do think the facts below make a good case for the video being flagged for privacy violation, Septy is not the person to do this nor is DMCA the tool. With that said, this video still really angered me--not just because it's ten minutes of what can be said in one, but because Carmen never actually says why people were so mad at her video.

The parts about Septy, myself, and LioConvoy were all terrible--and Septy is currently working on a response which I will be appearing in--but that was all typical for a CarmenRider video. The actual problems with the video Septy flagged were having a thumbnail where Neko Koda--who both is a sexual abuse victim and had recently tried to kill herself--is raped, which Carmen admitted to:

I also want to point out, Carmen has excused this by pointing out both that Septy made a similar meme (before Neko tried to commit suicide, remember) and that Neko's video has her being assaulted in the thumbnail. Although I am not going to act like I agree with either, one was not made just after Neko Koda tried to take her own life and the other was not made after CarmenRider tried to take her life. To put it simply: We have no issue with what she did on principal (at worst, most involved would think it's a very tasteless jab on its own), we have issue with her doing it when she did.

The other issue was Carmen leaking details about Neko Koda's then-recent breakup with her ex-girlfriend to the public. This is something that Nil called her out on in the comments to this video:

A small back and fourth occurred, which eventually resulted in Carmen saying this:

I then saw this comment, and Carmen and I said the following to each other:

Yeah, this is the thing that I honestly cannot believe is not talked about more. CarmenRider is basically saying that she went off of nothing but an anonymous source who claimed to know somebody she hated in real life, didn't do any fact checking or even ask around, and put it in her video as if it were fact. The more that has come out about Neko Koda's relationship--much of which Neko Koda never wanted to come out in the first place, might I add--the more it becomes clear that Neko Koda did nothing wrong and her ex-girlfriend was being unreasonable.

Even assuming CarmenRider should have believed it was Neko Koda's ex-girlfriend right out of the gate--which she shouldn't have, and the fact that it was her ex-girlfriend is nothing more than luck on Carmen's part--Carmen should have assumed that an ex who just broke up was not going to give the full story.

This is something Carmen does constantly, if she hates you any story about you that shows you to be the bad guy will be believed. This is the same person who, just a few months ago, believed utterly nonsensical claims about SpaceGuru5 for no other reason than because the person telling her them was a fan and SpaceGuru5 had made an open letter to her criticizing her:

Oh, also, the video from Kronya Carmen links in the description--which is the entire basis for the title of the video, by the way--has since been made private after it quickly got backlash primarily from the Slideshow Commentary Community (also known as the people actually involved in the situation):

The video has since been reuploaded by SpaceGuru5 (he also made a response, but I never actually got around to watching that, so I'm not going to post it here):

Let's also not forget that this backfired so terribly for Kronya that it led to the leaking of Skype DMs he had with a then-twelve year old Umbrus regarding which video game characters she--again, at twelve--most wanted to fuck and how:

Kronya was an adult at the time, by the way.

This is the same person who allied herself with Studio Neeting More and Doodleclones just last year, because all three share similar opinions on lolicon and porn of OCs. To be fair to Carmen, she did cut Neet off eventually after the evidence he was grooming Doodleclones was just too large to ignore, but it was so obvious to everybody long before that point. Here is a YouTube community post from Carmen where she announces she's cutting Neet off:

This was after Neet was already called out by Neko Koda:

Doodletones:

Myself:

And many others who I'm either forgetting or who made videos I never saw.

Honestly--bitter exes, hypocrites, sexual predators--is their a single group of terrible people Carmen doesn't surround herself with? If this is all just one giant coincidence, it is a bad looking one on the part of Carmen.