#rwbyv7

Questions asked by @angstandhappiness

@iamafanofcartoons @sid471 @miki-13 @keyenuta @anthurak @bardock1991 @harostar @thegirlwholovespines

I would like to get your thoughts on these as well as they do pertain to similar subjects that we have talked about in the past.

What do you think of Ozpin's choice on choosing Pyrrha to be the new Fall Maiden? 

On paper it seems ideal but like any candidate chosen or given a job or task it's the then and there do you see whether or not it was a good choice and selection to make that person the one for the job or in this case Pyrrha as the Fall Maiden.

Truth be told when Oz made this choice there is a very high possibility that he didn’t know Pyrrha as much as he needed to and this is due to Pyrrha herself.

Personally I think Pyrrha more or less was having the same problem as any teen that could have been resolved had she talked and shared her thoughts about it instead of bottling up her emotions and just going with the flow. 

Had that been known chances are Ozpin wouldn’t have chosen her to have been the Fall maiden but in all honesty and truth there weren’t that many options if you had to choose a good natured candidate to be an all powerful elemental avatar so yeah on paper she seemed like an ideal choice but once you read in between the lines it's a 50/50 gamble on whether or not it will pay off.

What is your opinion on Ozpin withholding the truth from his current allies of Salem's true invulnerability and immortality? 

First off she is not invulnerable, maybe fast healing but not invulnerable if V8 is proof of anything.

Second to answer this one I have to invoke the old question that Dr. Oobleck asked team RWBY; Why did they become Huntsmen and Huntressesin the first place?

Before Salem was even a thing to the main characters they seemed pretty ok spending their lives knowing they can never eradicate the Grimm so that does beg the question; What’s the difference between then and now? 

All they know now is that the Grimm have a leader and that just like them they can never truly eradicate the threat of her but beyond that what has really changed?

Does knowing that you can never beat or kill the final boss that is actively trying to kill you, your friends and every defenseless innocent really going to discourage you from doing whatever you can to help hinder said enemy and defend everyone you care or will care for? 

No unless you have resolved to continue on with the fight and endure knowing that you may not succeed, and that those of good may continue to fail for thousands of years after you but they will not stop. All it takes for evil to truly succeed is if good people do nothing. 

Now why do I bring up this highly philosophical theory is because everything that I just said is what is more or less Ozpin’s resolve and why he didn’t share the truth about Salem’s immortality with his allies; They are not Heroes who joined him to counter Salem

Other than Ruby Rose every single one of Ozpin’s allies did not join his fight against salem because they were altruistic or charitable enough to lend a helping hand for the greater good, no just like their choice to be huntsmen and huntresses they are not in this fight because it's the right thing to do, they are in it hoping that it will help serve their own personal needs and goals

In short the overall reason why Ozpin didn’t share the truth is because almost all of his allies are not true or real heroes that are on his side because it’s the right thing to do.

To help further explore this point here’s a list of goals and motives for some of Ozpin’s allies for either being huntsmen or being in this conflict and why they prove that they did not deserve the truth 

These will also lead into the next question.

Team RWBY

Weiss; 

Goal; redeem the Schnee family name & SDC.

Motive; prove that she is nothing like her father. 

Why they didn’t deserve to know about salem’s immortality; All her efforts and goals are self serving and tend and will only benefit her so that she may not feel so guilty about being a rich girl with a monopoly on the words most relied and needed resource to survive on 

Sidenote; I’m not familiar with the inner workings of shady corporations or questionable business practices but i'm pretty sure being a monster slayer is not going to expose and remove Jaques from power so can someone tell me why Weiss couldn’t have done a whistleblower operation or corporate espionage instead of becoming a Huntress because honestly besides the fame and notoriety I don’t think there was any legitimate reason for Weiss to be a huntress (Like do Huntsmen double as PI’s or something?)

Blake;

Goal; Faunus equality/ Making things right with her friends 

Side note; not gonna lie I don’t even know what her goals are anymore as her character at this point has been reduced to a love interest for Yang

Motive; Better life for herself/ Redemption for being both an enabler and coward

Why they didn’t deserve to know about salem’s immortality; Just like Weiss, her goals and motives are also self serving in the sense that it opens more opportunities in life for blake as well as to put her mind at ease for being an ex terrorist as well as abandoning her friends and family in the past

Yang;

Goal; Find out why Raven abandoned her

Side note; Honestly this could have been resolved had anyone just told her that her mom was a psychopathic murderer who would rather kill than be part of a family

Motive;  Besides knowing the truth for why Raven is awful she is also motivated by thrill seeking adventures and danger

Side note; there might be a bit of revenge and resentment added to her motives post V3 due to being framed losing her arm and being abandoned by almost everyone she had known 

Why they didn’t deserve to know about salem’s immortality; Besides being the daughter of a person that uses Ozpin’s teachings and power for evil, Yang is another example of someone who only does things that benefit herself and could care less about what happens(not unlike Raven)

Sidenote; if V5 & V6 are anything they prove that Yang is more or less the first one to walk away, and doesn't give a damn about the Salem conflict and will have left had Ruby not been there to stay.

Team JNPR

Jaune;

Goal; Become a Huntsmen to prove himself to his family and be a hero

Motive; apparently he is the family disappointment 

Sidenote; Revenge for Pyrrah may be a motive post Fall of Beacon

Why they didn’t deserve to know about salem’s immortality; besides lying, cheating and forging transcripts to get into beacon Jaune is another example of a self serving huntsmen with the added bonus that he should never have been involved in the first place

Sidenote; I can’t say for certain why Ozpin allowed Jaune to continue as a student in Beacon with forged transcripts but I doubt a reincarnating benign with 1000+ years of experience wouldn’t recognize forgery so for the benefit of the doubt lets assume that Ozpin decided to go with a 50/50 gamble either A.) Jaune becomes a great huntsmen or B.) he dies either way Jaune got what he wanted and Ozpin wins.

Nora;

Goal; Be with Ren/ Find self worth independent from Ren(Later)

Motive; Not to be alone and abandoned again

Sidenote; V8 really gave Nora depth as a character as to be honest she more or less was a flat character

Why they didn’t deserve to know about salem’s immortality; Honestly besides Ruby, and Pyrrah Nora more or less had a decent 50/50 chance to have been involved in the Salem conflict however Nora Pre V6 wasn’t exactly the most reliable or secretive individual from Ozpin’s perspective and in all honesty had very little relevance or motive to be involved in the Salem conflict

Ren;

Goal; Become a Huntsmen 

Sidenote; Possibly wanting to prevent others from having to lose what he had lost

Motive; Grief and anger from being orphaned by the Grimm

Sidenote; Basically he’s batman with the whole I am vengeance thing

Why they didn’t deserve to know about Salem's immortality; If later volumes after V4 are anything Ren isn’t exactly one of the most emotionally stable people to trust as his character during the Atlas arc is more or less akin to a whiny emotional b!7(# while trying to be emo and besides that just like Nora he had very little relevance or motive to be part of the Salem conflict

And Yes even though it was a Grimm that orphaned Ren I doubt Salem sent the Knuckleleave just to orphan Ren and in truth the destruction of Kuroyuri is ore or less akin to that of a wild animal attack, just a random act of nature that serves no purpose

Other 

Qrow

Goal; Find friendship and protect the only real family he has left

Motive; Self worth and loneliness

Why they didn’t deserve to know about salem’s immortality; Besides the fact that originally he was to use Ozpin’s teachings as a huntsmen to rob and kill innocent people

Ironwood

Goal; Ensure Atlas(the source of his power) is absolute and will endure

Motive; Obtaining power to feed his ego and hero complex

Why they didn’t deserve to know about salem’s immortality; to put it in short Ironwood only ever say the Salem conflict as a opportunity to increase Atlesian influence and superiority as well as a means to increase his own rule and power and being the opposite of everything that Ozpin stood for and tried to achieve 

Sidenote; Ozpin wasn’t about seizing power or creating an unchallenged rule or seeking glory. Ozpin was doing what was best to help guide and nurture the good for the people of remnant, not to rule or control them with little care like Ironwood did.

Sidenote; I’ve done an entire analysis series on Ironwood explaining why 

As you can see a majority of Ozpin’s allies really shouldn’t have been involved in the first place due to just what kind of people they are and probably still are by the time of the show's present. But due to circumstances and the choices of a few people they are involved do to either need or accident regardless of who they are and what they hope to achieve which is enough just cause and reason for why Ozpin didn’t tell them about Salem’s immortality 

Because it was none of their business and by far beyond any of their capabilities combined as in truth the conflict with Salem is truly only Oz’s. Those are my reasons why none of these people were told the truth about Salem’s immortality as well as why they didn’t need or deserve to know as well. With that I’ll be moving on to the next question.

How do you think he should have told them, and when? 

I just gave a whole lot of reasons why they shouldn’t have been told and if you noticed Ruby isn’t apart of that list because out of all Oz’s allies I do see Ruby as being the first if only person that Ozpin would have told the truth about Salem’s immortality because unlike the others her goals and motives aren’t self serving or a means to an end.

Ruby is content with being a huntress and is more or less willing to spend her days as one knowing she will die but still helps people along the way regardless of what the situation is or what the outcome will be.

But if Oz had to tell them it would probably have happened after they secured the relic in Atlas first and probably before Ironwood's descent into warmongering which lead to his eventual insanity in V8.

But that is besides the point, for you see this conflict with Salem is and always has been Oz’s problem and his problem only and everyone else could only really do is lend a helping hand and nothing more. Because of the sad truth and reality, what can they do? It doesn’t matter if they are all powerful, if all the grimm are extinct or if the world is under their control. Salem and Oz are basically timeless beings now and everyone around them will die and everything they have achieved will be undone one way or another.

And even then Defeating and Killing Salem is not the end goal of Oz’s mission. Salem may be the biggest obstacle at the moment but her being out of the picture doesn't mean or guarantee that things will be better for everyone.

Regardless of whether or not the main cast succeed and defeat Salem and she finally dies, Oz will still be there, once all of RWBY & JNR die Oz will still be there, and in in either hundred or a thousand years later after all of this Oz will still be there and will still be there after until he either succeeds in his mission in uniting Remnant in peace or until the Ozma soul has become so stretched and diminished to the point that the soul may no longer be able to reincarnate and eventually fade away into non existence. No afterlife, no heaven or hell, no rest just gone.  

It's a sad but likely outcome for Oz because the story of the show and overall conflict with Salem isn’t a tale about power or dominance or about hope and fellowship.

It is a tale about, Human evil and all that it encompasses which leads to the consequences that is the overall theme between Salem and Oz and those that become involved; A tale of Death and the desire for deathlessness.

For better or worse or for good or evil, all thing must come to an end in order for the tale to progress and move forward otherwise the great old tales will never end and history repeats itself and were back at square one

She’s panicking so hard she cannot even think. And she checks the nails of her prosthetic. Top panicking gay

So when Qrow first swore revenge against Ironwood way back in V7(?) I didn’t get what made him make that leap of logic. Other than being super emotional and guilty in the moment because of everything that went down. But now I’m looking at it (more) critically and I realized something. Ironwood and Qrow are PEERS. They were both part of Ozpin’s inner circle and familiar enough that they were on first name terms. Familiar enough that Qrow explicitly said what boils down to “you always try to do the right thing so I don’t believe you would be behind this” at the Fall of Beacon. A thing I have a tendency to forget especially in the FNDM is that Qrow is incredibly intelligent, not just in the technical way. For all of his self hate and bad coping mechanisms he does show a good understanding of the things that make people tick, even if its just to know what buttons to push to get what he wants. (Provoking Winter in ‘It’s a Brawl in the Family’) Him immediately getting the implications of Ironwood’s fleet back at the Vytal Festival and what it would mean in regards of public emotion is a good example of him being an sharp and strategic thinker. (He does not spell this out, but he is also steel burning angry at Ironwood for bringing the fleet, and jumped to the conclusion that James was turning his back on Ozpin, because he assumed that James understood exactly what bringing the fleet would mean.)

Emotion can get the best of anyone, but I don’t think his vendetta against Ironwood is entirely from his own emotional turmoil. This heads into supposition territory, but bear with me here.

I think Qrow saw the flaws in Ironwood’s treatment of Mantle. After all a big thing in fortifying and protecting in a war is to ‘get your house in order’. I think he threw his support behind Ruby and her distrust of James, not just because he promised to follow her but also because he saw the wisdom of withholding when he saw how bad it was. But he also saw the wisdom in the Amity Plan from a broad standpoint, the communications tower would go a long way into shoring up their battle against Salem. In this case(currently going through withdrawal and having faced one of the worst revelations of his life only a few days/weeks ago) he decided to trust in Ironwood’s competence and stay passive in his role. Falling back on his work as a Huntsman to feel useful. His job after all was primarily as a free agent/spy/outside advisor before the Fall.

This all turned to shit when he gets a call from RWBY, saying that James plans to abandon Mantle. He is initially calm and willing to go talk it out with Ironwood. This is a clear indication in his confidence in Ironwood, but it also shows that, unlike most of James’ subordinates, he knows that Ironwood can make mistakes. But he also has to take into account the fact that if Clover cuffs him and James turns out to be unreasonable he’s a sitting duck(crow). It doesn’t help that the kids he’s caring for and his family have been but of an Atlas wanted list. When Robyn fires that first shot he realizes that neither of them are going to get out of the situation unrestrained. This is where I don’t understand the whole ‘they were all out of character thing’. Robyn does not trust Ironwood, she has been actively fighting the harsh policies that have been causing suffering in Mantle. Ironwood is the direct cause of those orders. It doesn’t matter if she’s not on the bulletin Ironwood is going to abandon Mantle and she won’t take that lying down. As far as she’s concerned, she’s and enemy of the state alongside Qrow and keeping him free is keeping another ally free to fight against Ironwood. Robyn drew her battle lines and was ready to back them up, which did not include being flown straight into an Atlas military hangar with her only ally restrained and martial law dooming the very city she rose to council seat to represent.

Qrow still trusts the thought that Ironwood still has the greater good at heart, even if he’s making the wrong choice  at the moment.(Like bringing the fleet to Beacon). But when Clover, who has never given any indication that he isn’t a good soldier boy, refuses to work with Qrow to take down Tyrian he’s faced with a terrible choice. It doesn’t escape my notice that in the fight Qrow does take opportunistic potshots at Tyrian even after they’ve ‘teamed up’. Then the whole bloody shebang ends and Qrow is left with a dead body someone he cared for.

He looks back on the whole thing, emotional as he is and traces the blame tree to what he believes is the source: James Ironwood.

Afterall, James was the one who gave the order to make him and the crew public enemies for protesting his abandonment of Mantle. Qrow doesn’t know details, but from his perspective James decided to finally cut off the city that has become what he perceives to be a liability and has decided to make Qrow and his people public enemies when they tried to go against him/get the word out. In Qrow’s mind Clover is not entirely blameless “Why couldn’t you do what was right instead of what you were told?”

However, the crux of this entire matter and the lead up to Clover’s death all happened because of Ironwood’s, unreasonable from Qrow’s view, order. So Clover’s death, in Qrow’s mind, can be laid at Ironwood’s feet along with the abandonment of Mantle and the current persecution of his nieces and their friends. In V8 Qrow is still gunning for the man, even as he tries to deal with his own guilt and his part in the conflict on the transport. Because, everyone(except for the pilot bless his soul) in that transport has a part of the blame for the situation happening. And now that I’ve thought about it, even if his anger over Clover’s death is the initial motivation I don’t think its the only one.

Long time no post!

Edited one of my favorite photos from our Nuts & Dolts shoot in honor of Nuts & Dolts week!