#post response

Firstly, I crave for posts like these. Like, A Post that could make you think and say, 'Hmmm, I never thought about this... It makes absolute sense'.

I am glad that my posts made sense because sometimes when I write meta post my thought gets jumbled and was like “wait, I am getting sidetracked, what am I supposed to talk again?” XD. 

Secondly, I wish I should have sent you that ask sooner so that I would've got your response earlier.... Which would have made my life easier... Because couple of days ago, an Itachi stan annoyed the hell out of me and that person was saying... "Jiraiya was a pervert, pedoph*l* and Naruto follows the ideal of this kind of person... How good his Ideal must be?"... Am like... (????).... If Only I had your points few days earlier, I would've totally destroyed that person. Well, Good for them. Unlucky me!!!

Haha, I know the feeling of frustration when you just lost the momentum on a debate. As I said in my post, Jiraiya’s flaws don’t absolve his goodness. And how good an ideal depends none other on how the recipient live up by the ideal. With the same principle, a supposedly good ideal will look bad if recipient use that ideal to do bad things (case in point, Danzo). Obito gave Kakashi “those who abandon one of their comrade are worse than trash” as a nice but naive 13 years old boy, then after he knows how the world truly rolls he lost his hope and became the bringer of chaos. Does that mean that ideal is not good anymore? If so, why Kakashi still used that ideal to face Obito in 4th War and even taught it to Boruto’s generation? (Anime only, Kakashi hasn’t appeared at all in Boruto manga and days by days I am not sure I want him to).

In the end, that ideal from Obito is what Kakashi believes by heart, gave him hope, helps him on his shinobi lives with his comrades, and became one of Naruto’s motivation as the Savior. That ideal from Jiraiya soothed Naruto while he was reeling by rage because of Jiraiya and Kakashi’s death along with the destruction of his home, also what helped him to save Sasuke and unite the fricking 5 different villages. With that results, how could we say that the ideals are not good just because they came from somewhat problematic individuals? Not to mention we are talking about the very harsh Naruto world that makes everyone are somewhat problematic in one way and another.

(I think even in our real world everyone are problematic at certain degree). 

Thirdly, Your points about Jiraiya... A+++. Like I inherently knew that he is Harmless (even though I know he is a Pervert... I've seen a fair share of harmful perverts in my life too)... But I don't know why I never felt hatred towards him... And your Answer made me realize... "Oh!!! So this is why I couldn't hate Jiraiya but love him none matter what???". And your last line, "Thank God, The Target was Jiraiya!!" was Chef's Kiss.

Thanks for the compliment! And happy that it help you to realize your feeling toward Jiraiya more. On my post, there’s a quote  “A Saint can appear like a Sinner when they stepped on an ant, and a Sinner can appear like a Saint when they put down their murder weapon”, but I think the world is not that black and white. When the Saint stepped on an ant, they’re a Sinner ONLY TO the ant and ONLY WHEN he stepped on the ant. Vice versa for the Sinner part. So I accept Jiraiya’s perviness as one of his flaws but it didn’t make me not appreciating the good sides Jiraiya has.

Fourthly, I want to re-iterate (Just in case you misunderstood me) that, I don't mind people hating/feeling uncomfortable with Jiraiya for Obvious reasons... They have very valid reason to. But what I don't like is.. People criticizing him for writing Smut but they themselves write R-Rated Headcanons, criticizing Fanfic writers as to why did they made XXX character to be Top/Bottom and claim themselves as Feminist... And preach other people that Jiraiya's ideals are non-sense because he is a Pervert. (Just say you hate Jiraiya and go!!!)

Don’t worry, I understand what you’ve meant. I just emphasize that everyone’s tolerance of sexual stuff are different so those who read my post are not obliged to like Jiraiya if his perviness is too uncomfortable for them.

And the hypocrisy, I also understand it completely. Once a comic strip appeared on my dash, comedy comic that went like this : 

Kakashi reads Icha-Icha in front of his students, Sakura protested to Kakashi that reading porn like that makes him look sexist because it objectifying women. Then Kakashi said, “I read it for the men”. The end.

I was like, wait, what? That’s it? Isn’t porn objectifying the men too, but because he “reads it for the men” doesn’t make him “sexist” anymore? Then because I just don’t understand, I read the comments and they’re like “ That’s okay, Kakashi is gay, of course he reads it for the men”. Suffice to say my confusion is deepened. So if Kakashi’s gay (in their interpretation), reading porn for the women is sexist but reading it for the men is not?? Then before I got confused even further, I gave up and just, you know what? Let’s stop thinking about it so serious, the artist just made that comic for fun but the joke clearly flew over my head so let’s just keep scrolling.

There are 2 kind of sex (not gender) so criteria of sexist should apply to both, in my opinion.

Top/Bottom yaoi fanfic are definitely sexualizing men and sometimes even feminize men. I think that’s the truly sexist act, to think that in a relationship there has to be the “woman” one and sometimes equals with the “under” one. People like that don’t deserve to call themselves “feminist” let alone criticizing men for their smut contents.

Fifthly, Kakashi's Anime only scene with Sakura might come off as downright sexist for some people... But I was glad that it was not in the Manga back when I read it for the first time (Man, Anime team shitted on so many characters). Even when I was watching the Anime, I felt like it was too OOC from Kakashi's side.. Like I knew that he isn't a person to pry on someone's private affairs. But People calling Kakashi as an Offender for reading Icha Icha is just REACHING.

Well, just seconds before I made that post, I think that it’s a canon material. I am not manga puritist, because I think anime seldom mischaracterize Kakashi too much, even downright biased toward him (Kakashi vs Obito fight scene is nothing but love confession from animator XD). So I generally saw manga as the prime material, but will accept non-manga material as part of Kakashi’s characterization. For that scene, I kinda equalize it with the time when Kakashi said that Naruto should eat more vegetable or he will die, like he genuinely cares for his students’ health but he’s a little socially inept and sometimes his way of caring can look weird or downright insensitive XD

But yeah reading smut is not a sex offence in any shape or form, but I guess I can’t blame people who think like that too much when the anime generously gave us this kind of scene,

Whereas when Naruto saw Kakashi with his dirty book after 2+ years not seeing each other, his response is happiness because Kakashi doesn’t change at all. Aaanndd then gave him new smut book.

Even Sakura (a girl) hardly bothered by it anymore.

He didn’t harm anyone and he can be as serious as you want with the 18+ book on his hand, leave him and his quirk alone.

Sixth and Finally, Your point about Itachi was the best one in that entire post. You could've tagged it under Itachi tags itself because I never felt like you were bashing him for no reason like Sasuke stans does. (Damn, Am I being so obvious that I like Itachi???) Sadly, like you said, that Genjutsu'ing that Girl thing was never brought up by anyone in this fandom and this is the first time I am also hearing it... AND I AGREE WITH YOU TOTALLY. Well, he is my absolute favourite still... But I don't like to apologize for him since I'd like to take a Character just like how he was written by the Author. Not my own perfect version. I never criticized him for putting either Kakashi or Sasuke in a Tsukuyomi... Because at the end of the day they are Ninjas and they live to fight. Period. But what Itachi did to that Girl is just plain wrong, no matter what. Even though he did that to exploit Jiraiya's weakness (a thing every Ninjas do to knock out their Opponents) And this also gives me a point to defend Jiraiya in a right way.

Yeah I add Itachi tag after receiving your ask, little bit hesitant before because I don’t wanna offend anyone since I just wanna make a point for Jiraiya. Also yeah even if I haven’t read your top 10 favorite characters it’s clear that you love Itachi, so I was relieved to know that I didn’t offend you with that post. What Itachi did is indeed something a ninja usually did, a.k.a exploiting the opponent’s weakness, but using defenseless woman as a tool like that is, just like Jiraiya said, not a manly way of doing your things. I know that narratively they are portrayed as ruthless villain of the day as Naruto kidnappers but still on that scene, Itachi and Kisame deserve to have their manhood questioned.

Anyways, Thanks for the Response. I totally enjoyed every word of it because it was Thoughtful at the same time it was Very Hilarious too.