#kagepro fandom

1. The Problematic ships

1.1. KanoKido is incest, so it's problematic

Kano and Kido who grew up together since childhood, lived in an orphanage together with Seto before they got foster cared by the Tateyama’s. They’re not adopted (a thing Yen Press did wrong in their official translation of the 5th novel), and they never took the Tateyama’s family name (more explanation here).

Kano and Kido are not blood related.

Kano and Kido did not change their surnames to Tateyama.

So they’re not officially siblings.

So it’s not incest.

Even in the guide, instead of siblings, they’re referred as childhood friends.

That’s why shippers ship KanoKido to begin with. We see them as childhood friends who grew up to have feelings for each other. At least for Kano, it was revealed he had feelings for Kido in the final light novel and manga.

However, this does not mean we’re telling the antis to stop seeing them as siblings. You guys see them as siblings. Okay, fine. It’s your choice. Ship them with someone else? Go for it.

However, incest is between those who are blood-related and/or share the same surname. Since KanoKido doesn’t have either of those two, then slapping in the word ‘incest’ is incorrect.

We are not saying you are not allowed to see them as siblings who grew up together. We’re just saying just because you guys see them - headcanon them as having more sibling relationship due to the obscured boundaries of them being siblings does not mean it is canonically incest to begin with. Yes, there are different cultures, but there is also respecting other cultures point of view on the fictional characters. And that the series is set in Japan, not where your culture is from. Therefore, attacking shippers on shipping them just because we don’t share your view is not only an immature, but hurtful move.

In fact. I want to mention something on the definition of incest.

As you can see, it means anything sexual. And in our case right now, ‘sexual acts between siblings’.

Now, let’s say the antis sees KanoKido as siblings. Okay?

Then how, is this fanart I requested from an artist and used on my Tumblr blog seen as sexual? This is Kano petting Kido with kitty ears and tail. Is petting head considered sexual now? Can antis not just see it as Kano teasing Kido’s kitty ears and tail? Can antis not see it as what they all claim to be, a sibling teasingly petting their sibling’s kitty ears and tail?

Antis made the claim of seeing Kano and Kido as siblings, however they feel revolted from a fanart of the two together like this, as if this looks sexual. No kissing or whatever. Just Kano teasingly pet Kido’s kitty features, that can be interpreted as a sibling teasing his sibling’s features she’s embarrassed over if the antis choose to.

But no, the antis do not have the ability to see them as siblings, despite their claim. They are not able to do that with any fanart with Kano and Kido together, nor with any manga panel and frames with Kano and Kido together..

In my honest opinion, I believe the antis are just allergic to seeing Kano and Kido together in anything, even when they are just standing together. With symptoms of them being nasty in the fandom and hurt others with no care.

I have more to say about the antis, but I will leave it for later. Moving on.1.2. HibiMomo is paedophilia, so it’s problematic

Let's remind ourselves what the word paedophilia is, shall we?

1.2. HibiMomo is paedophilia, so it’s problematic

Let's remind ourselves what the word paedophilia is, shall we?

If you all remember correctly...

Momo is 16. She's not an adult.

Hibiya is 12. He's not an adult.

Japan's current law for age of adulthood is 20 (will be lowered to 18 in the future...oh look), they're not 20 nor 18 yet so none of them are adults.

So how is this paedophilia? How is HibiMomo considered paedophilia when both of them are under the age of being an adult?

Unless the antis are grossed out on age gaps, fair enough. But first of all, slapping the word 'paedophilia' just because of age gap between two children who are not adults is, how should I say it, idiotic. As the word have lost a lot of meaning when it is always misused because of the antis’ own discomfort without trying to think about the true meaning and the real reason of the discomfort.

Why do you hear people say they sick of antis screaming about problematic ships? Because of the misuse of the word 'paedophilia.' And I should have mentioned earlier, ‘incest’ as well.

Furthermore, the issue with age gaps. Okay, I get it. Hibiya is younger than Momo. Boy younger than girl. Real weird for them to be dating. I get told a lot on dating a guy older than me by my ma as I grew up.

However, here’s the thing. 4 years age gap is not that much of a difference big difference. Your parents, grandparents, teacher's partner, the couple living next door, and the married person walking down the street will have age gaps with their loved ones, and possibly way bigger than just 4 years anyway. 4 years apart when it’s between adults are not an uncommon thing. As for the guy younger than the girl. Well I also know there are girls who married guys younger than them. I question it a bit, but it’s not bothering me, I’m not them. Their choice and life. And hey, they get along and really love each other! Good for them!

So the point is, I believe the HibiMomo shippers are not making Hibiya and Momo full on dating at the age of 12 & 16 respectively. Because okay, if they’re kissing already, then it’s a bit over my limit for them already. And I don’t see them doing that with Hibiya still 12. But Hibiya and Momo can be seen holding hands and hugging each other, which can be seen as a platonic romance, just them with a close relationship, with Momo leading Hibiya the way through the big city and cheer him up. And that’s kinda cute. I believe the shippers are more focused on the developing friendship and support since Hibiya and Momo just met (like how Momo tries to cheer up Hibiya in Otsukimi Recital), then possibly start developing relationships once Hibiya is older, with both he and Momo as adults. Something like in this anthology.

The point is, yes, there are age gaps between a 12 year old boy and a 16 year old girl, but it’s not paedophillia when both of them are not even adults. The real discomfort is age gaps, with the word ‘paedophillia’ misused constantly. But the shippers see them more at the hand holding and hugging stage as Hibiya and Momo get to know and help each other. Nothing more that can be considered inappropriate.

So with HibiMomo shippers shipping them platonically while the characters are 12 &16, and shipping them romantically when they’re both legally adults, that’s not promoting paedophillia.

If it is, then dating someone who has an age gap and both not being legally adult can be considered paedophillia.

No school dates, everyone.

1.3. Additional notes – the double standards Other ships are just as problematic

I’ll be honest here. What I wanted to write is how the antis have double standards on the whole ‘incest’ and ‘paedophillia’ argument. I was going to mention other ships, mainly on any ship to do with Ayano and the Mekakushi Trio, but mainly on SetoMary because by antis’ logic, SetoMary should also be incest (Mary taken in by the Tateyamas in Manga Route 2) and paedophillia (Mary is a 140 year old medusa).

But just before I was going to post this, the antis actually did start dragging SetoMary into this.

Since SetoMary is also targeted by the antis, I’m afraid the 3/5 main ships in Kagerou Project have now gone down to something like this...

KanoKido, SetoMary, HibiMomo, KonoEne, ShinAya

The main ships the fandom can now only ship and enjoy is now down to 2/5 of the main ships (excluding all other ships like KidoMomo, MomoMary, KanoAya, KanoShin, etc). At this point, the fandom have many things to be careful about because how much the antis are screaming at everyone on how to enjoy things.

If the fandoms have so many antis make rules on ships they don’t like, then there’s nothing to enjoy in the fandom as it limits creativity, especially there’s hostility from antis everywhere in the fandom. Therefore, oppression as well.

2. Types of antis present

And since I talked about what the antis had done, I shall list other things antis do that can be considered oppressing other fans to draw and contribute to anything. With this, I shall also show you evidence I was able to gather with the help of my friends who are not as involved in fandom, but agree the antis are just toxic. There are censored out URLs because some of these happened in the past, and honestly, I don’t want those reading this to attack the antis with the toxicity the antis do to shippers.

2.1. KiKi The Hettie

This happened last year during January. Just last year. 2018. And all these attacks, honestly, it still annoys me with how much happened back then and is still happening in the fandom. KanoKido tag was constantly spammed with hate, unseen unless you’re blocked, or blocked by the antis, but that just makes them continue their vigilant hate spreading to make everyone stop posting KanoKido.

Getting anon hate. Having posts mock me and laughed off as a joke. And that it was considered harmless.

So honestly, I cannot believe the words “antis mean no harm.”

Especially this happened over a year ago, and this next thing happened recentlyin January.

2.2. Emy trying to stop all this shipping discourse

Emy, a Kagepro fanartist who is honestly a God send with her making “Ask the Kagepro characters” and taking in requests from askers. She keeps the Kagepro community alive with her drawing fanarts from the asks as well, which is rare to see. Just one year after that “KiKi the Hettie” thing happened, she was tired of the discourse going around. So she made a post to explain why it’s okay to have different opinions on shipping something, but not to be toxic over it

...however... 

Let’s just say, there’s no hope for the Kagepro fandom at this point with how much she was attacked when she tried to explain why it’s okay to ship the ships like KanoKido and HibiMomo, while still okay to ship other things. Antis explain themselves, and we understand and not telling them to stop shipping what their shipping. Instead just at least know there are KanoKido and HibiMomo shippers out there, and not full on attack them over their onesided beliefs and headcanons they considered to be completely correct.

2.3. Mockery in posts

Someone posted official Kagepro art by Sidu. Imagine the fans joy to reblog them, only when they found this post, they see this tag. With this, the OP is scaring the fans away to "fuck off and die.” And no, this cannot be brushed off as “antis meant no harm.” Telling someone to die is very offensive, intimidating to the point threatening them to not upset the antis with what they ship.

This is not just telling shippers to go away.

This is threatening the shippers on how to behave in the fandom and isolate them out if the shippers dare to do anything that supports their ship. And that the shippers have no right to like an official art.

And other than posts on official art, there’s also posts posting these in the ship’s tag.

Like I said earlier, the only way to not see these kinds of posts in the ship’s tag is either to be blocked, or blocking the by the antis. But when shippers go into the ships tag (or just searching), they probably see a post like if the shipper and the anti didn’t block each other.

If posts like this shippers off like this, this is just mocking them really. Make them feel wrong to like a ship because of an antis’ belief despite it is shown Kano liking Kido that way. And again, this makes the shippers be care of not totick off the antis just to keep themselves safe.

And it’s sickening how the antis do this and sees it as no harm. Honestly, it’s not funny.

There are more of these, but I’m not filling this replies with all the things antis posted.

2.4. Antis claiming to be healthy

Literally. Antis do that. 

If it’s so problematic, honestly, why are the antis still here? I know anyone can have headcanons, however KanoKido shippers, along with HibiMomo shippers, based their shippy feeling from what Jin provided. But calling what Jin did as problematic and disgusting, after he worked so hard and became homeless at one point, yet continued to provide Kagepro contents for the fandom, this is the thanks Jin gets.

Furthermore, other than this sort of asks. There’s this posts.

Antis calling themselves Jin. Calling people freaks.

And by calling out ‘anti-antis’, who’s trying to stop their toxic behaviour, just proves how much they do not welcome anyone else in the fandom unless they share the same belief as them. Anything we do is against them, so it is wrong in the antis’ eyes.

By telling the fandom only who is allowed, with those who oppose the antis should leave, that shows what the antis are doing. Controlling the fandom to their liking.

Oppressing.

2.5. Full on attacking on someone they blocked already

If any of you guys reading this had seen what’s been happening the past few days...

Openly saying they’re going to harass me unless I block them. Even though they blocked me.

By blocking me, they should have no other reasons to contact me.

And knowing this person don’t like KanoKido, and attacked Emy (yes, same person. For some reason they deleted their first blog), I have no reason to talk to them anyway. Instead, I wanted to enjoy our own contents without seeing any toxicity from the antis, and not be harassed. Not going out of my way to harass people in asks or making insulting posts to people whom I don’t like.

Unlike this person, who had to harass me for fun.

No one finds you funny, really.

And before everyone here are saying “KiKi! You should have block them!” Now listen, why should I block someone when they blocked me already. And even if they didn’t block me before then, they should know how to block me already since they can navigate through Tumblr to send me an ask. I am not their online babysitter to make their life easier. I am not anyone’s online babysitter. Just want to go online and enjoy my content in peace. This anti have their own methods to make their life on Tumblr easy as well. I would have never seen whatever they posted anyway since they blocked me.

They blocked me? I can’t see what they posted and they also can’t see what I posted. Okay, sounds good to me. I’m not going to stalk them. Moving on.

Furthermore, acting friendly with me with ‘please’ to block them, I honestly don’t comply to someone who was rude to me, my friends and shouting insulting things to us shippers in the first place. It would be like helping a bully after they made my friends and I miserable, yet they like “Yeah do this for me please?” And it is especially true when they’re harassing me after I said no.

No. Just no.

Also, since they reblogged my stuff relating to them, along with them sending me asks not just once, twice, but thrice. They’re just a cyberbully who find it fun to harass me.

2.6. Rule implementing

I mentioned this earlier with the problem with shipping. But other than antis making posts and asks to attack shippers, there is also another thing the antis seems to be doing to oppress the fandom. I’ve been here for a while, and I notice Kagepro event blogs having these rules like “no incest/ paedophilia ships”, “incest/paedophilia shippers don’t interact”, etc.

I understand if the antis don’t like the ships, but that is just scaring the fans away, making them not welcomed in not only the fandom, and in the ship. This includes past Kagepro Secret Santas events (saw one or two of those), and also the current Kagepro Zine, making the biggest double standard move I have ever seen.

From reading this, it is very obvious what kind of people are running the Zine. An event to express love for the Kagepro series, only to be told no ‘romantic relationship,’ and then instantly told exactly what they didn’t want to begin with.

“Not focused on the romantic relationship.” Oh okay.

“May see some more popular couples show up!” ...So yes to ships or...?

“We will not be allowing incestuous or pedophilic ships on our zine.” ...Oh.

Then what is it? No romantic ships at all?

Or yes to romantic ships, but no incestuous or pedophilic ships?

Because of these rules that appear in Tumblr blogs, this also contributes to why the fandom who wants to draw something feels like they’re being oppressed to the point too scared of doing anything for the fandom anymore.

Along with the posts and asks, these rules in Kagepro events just shuns everyone else away while the antis feels right about what they are doing without reasons.

3. Conclusion

In all honesty, I want to understand why the antis are still here. Jin made something shippable, but here the antis are, being all toxic and stopping the fans on how to contribute to the fandom. Calling Jin making a disgusting and problematic ship and all. And making all these posts for ‘lolz’ just because it seemed right to them.

So if Jin was so problematic, why stay here and still love Kagerou Project when it clearly supports incest/paedophillia ship?

Kano have feelings for Kido romantically. It happened. Yet the antis choose to ignore it for their own sake and continue to harass everyone else who are actually happy for this clarification. Making posts to tell shippers off. Attack posts on ships the antis didn’t like. And making rules on who could participate in an event or not.

If it’s so bad, why did the antis stay? It’s not healthy to stay in a fandom that is ‘so bad’ to begin with, it just makes the person miserable. Unless antis just not only stay to be toxic, they stay and want others to suffer because they’re miserable.

That’s sickening.

The fandom is sickening.

And with how much this is happening, to the antis, and the anon who sent the 6 asks, this is not considered oppression.

Anon, if you are still reading this and still believe " We (antis) aren’t coming for anyone by any means," I want you to revaluate all that was said and consider did you guys really didn’t oppress anyone.

With the mocking posts.

Attacking posts.

Sending harassing asks.

Making rules on events that should have been fun.

All this done...

...Over fictional characters.

That is the environment the antis had made in the fandom.

A ship with characters that can be seen as siblings or having romantic relationships.

And on a ship with characters considered paedophilia, even though both characters are not adults.

So please don't say things like "We (antis) aren’t coming for anyone by any means."

Don’t defend their actions anymore.

Especially when they feel no guilt over what they did.

Listen. Back when I joined the fandom, it was a simplertime. Yobanashi Deceive came out, followed by Lost Time Memory and Ayano’sTheory of Happiness shortly after. Those days were simple as we all cried overKano and Ayano, and think of the potential plot LTM revealed as we all waited forMekakucity Actors to come out. We also had awesome contents on translatorstranslating some fancomics (with permission) and a good amount of fanfics andfanarts provided by the fans in this fandom.  

Of course, we had some discourse over which was better:KanoKido or KanoAya; and over Shounen Brave’s MV being leaked online. And wehad major discourse over how MCA went, but in the end it’s just agree todisagree and move on to focus to other medias Kagerou Project was released in,or just move away from the series in general.

Right now with the fandom, however, they cannot agree ordisagree over ships. Majority of the fandom anyway. Today the fandom…other fandoms really, just love to throwthe word ‘incest’ and ‘pedophilia’ left and right with ease and spread theirflames in their posts, tags and replies. In everything, really. Even when theyposted official art, they feel the need to scream in their tag to tell usshippers to fuck off and die for shipping what they think is ‘incest’. I also knowthere are those who are disgusted over my display picture of Kano and Kidokissing, which an old friend of mine edited when that episode of MCA aired(won’t reveal name because I don’t want you to attack them). And even feelgross out over the pic in my blog of Kano petting Kido’s kitty ears.

I want to ask, how can the antis who claim Kano and Kido aresiblings, can see petting as sexual? You could have chosen to see it as abrother petting his sister’s kitty ears because it is cute and fun to tease herfor that, but no. Just because Kano and Kido are alone within a picture…or apanel frame really, you guys choose to view it as a romantic relationshipinstead of a sibling relationship, getting angry over it and spreading hate.

Ironic for antis who claim Kano & Kido are siblings, butjust seeing them together doing something makes you think it’s romantic anyway.

What’s more. Age gaps. Ever since another discourse over ships happened when my friend tried to makepeace with shippers (and sadly failed and upset over it when you guys flamedher), I have heard of this thing called “Half your age + Seven” to dictate whoto date with, and what is appropriately shippable, like HibiMomo. Honestly thispost have the best response over it, but I will quote the replyhere.

so a 16 year old can’tdate a 14 year old? so an 18 year old can’t date a 16 year old? so a 40 yearold can’t date a 27 year old? a math expression should not be the regulation ondating ages…

and if it’s shippingwho tf cares? not hurting anybody because they all fictional…

To be honest, this reminds me of Dead Poet Society. Ifanyone had seen the film, maybe you recall a scene where poetry is calculatedby math as well. This is that level of stupidity. The fandom today is doingsomething what could be considered excrement on what is acceptable over whatis fiction and bringing that over to reality. The reality where your parents,grandparents, classmates or anyone you know also have age gaps, and that reallyyou are more upset over fictional characters dating instead of real-life issuesof incest and pedophilia.

Other than that little discourse fiasco, there are otherthings, but I will not go into detail. Instead just says this tiny fandom justfeels too entitled with their belief and doing uncalled for things likebackstabbing and limiting others to enjoy supporting the fandom in their ownway. Also to let the antis go free by just sit by and watch. I understand thosewho are just tired and don’t want to deal with them. But for those who actuallyenable the antis to do what they want because you guys just don’t care, youguys are part of the guilty party as well by letting them grow and think it’sa-okay to be like this.

With that being said, I do not feel the need to post thefinal chapter anymore. You guys will have to figure it out yourselves or justwait and hear bits and pieces of it maybe. But I don’t even want to post what Iknow. Instead I will just share those RAWs with who I am friends with and whomI trust, plus those who are more mature because instead of flaming, they justlet others enjoy what they ship and do their own things.

The chapters being taken down will also remove myself as aRAW provider to the fandom, which I am thankful because I do not need to dothis anymore, as I, again, I hate scanning and always believe I would get intotrouble.

I know there are those, like my friends and mutuals I havehere on Tumblr, who wanted to read the manga since they do not have access tothem where they live. I am sorry for doing this to them too, but it just isn’tworth it in the end.

Instead, I will spend my remaining days in the fandom asjust someone who hears bits and pieces of Kagepro fandom here and there while Iam enjoying myself more in another fandom or doing other things I enjoy inlife, instead of spreading hate when someone doesn’t agree with you. I willstill look forward to Jin’s next album and when Mekakucity Reload to come out, andalso I might finish my KanoKido Oneshot requests and multichapter stories Iwanted to finish, but that will take a longtime since I’m planning to focus other writing instead.

But what I look forward to the most is when the series’ end,so then it can be put to rest for real and I can officially leave and let thefandom to slowly die. Might hear some things, but it will be a dying fandom atthat point.

The asks are still open for yelling. But it will just provea point. But right now, I believe I have blocked a lot of anti, which goes toshow how toxic this fandom has become. If I do get any asks/anon hate though,feel free to blacklist #discourse and #negativity, dear followers. Tumblralways had that option at least, you guys just need to use it when you’re onthe app without xKit. Also I will just answer those asks once, then block them afterwards (if you’re sending an ask through anon, you’re IP blocked).

If you guys read this whole thing (over 2 pages at thispoint), then I thank you for reading this. And more so if you understand what Iam doing. Sorry to those who are upset over this, but not to the antis who areupset and possibly raging if they read this.