#istumpysk

I was crazy busy these last few weeks, and let me tell you one thing, this stuff is what lit majors write essays about. You could maybe get a bachelor degree writing about Tyrat the Giant. There. Is. So. Much. Of. It.

If I had just collected the quotes, it would be one thing. Now I'm putting them in groups and interpreting from it - gotta play the word association game with GRRM characters - half of them meet the criteria for multiple groups, in a way which connects the imagery. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up HotU length or a multi-parter.

Because this is you, my dear Stumpy, you get a little preview though (as possible as it is on mobile):

Small vs. Tall

Giants, Mountains, Hills, Hugor Hill, Casterly Rock, the Mountain... it's all Giants

If Littlefinger is Dead, Tyri0n's a Giant. Threshold Boss LF

On that note: the Princess and the Giant, Sansa slaying Giant husbands

HEADS UP FOR JON VIII, ASOS: If you want to save yourself some work, keep the Battle of Blackwater chapters at hand. Jon and Tyrat are framed as fighting opposite sides, there is fire, Jon is battling a giant...

Jongret vs. Tyshae. Y shows up a bizarre amount when dealing with giant imagery, such as in Jon's black ice armor dream, or wishing she'd taught him how to steal one...

The armor imagery 👆, a lot of fool imagery... Jon will not be friendly for so much longer

Way too much Hand to Bran stuff.

Cat feels a giant's hand pressing down on her. Then she recites her personal kill list (Arya got it from somewhere I guess) and names Tyrat last.

Foreshadowing Bran letting Tyri0n live if he bends the knee in the conversation with Stannis, where he offers Jon Winterfell

Aemon and Naerys = Princess Daeryssa getting saved by Selwyn of the Mirror Shield, from Giants = Joffrey protecting Sansa against Hound and Payne

On that note, first person to outright call T a Giant? Maester Aemon.

Tall as a King, in the shadow -> Last of the Giants. T will be the Last Lannister, the Mountains from Casterly Rock (Tywin once loomed as eternal as this mountain...)

The Titan of Braavos, or: the Snowcastle Chapter really was George abandoning all subtlety regarding Sansa's arc. Ending LF then Ending T, QitN, Jonsa. The Trifecta.

Some more but that's all I can remember right now and I should honestly go to sleep soon, so...

Post GOT S6 ASOIAF RE-READ:

"How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?”

[...] It is not me she wants her son to marry, it is my claim. No one will ever marry me for love.

—A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI

“By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa.”

—A Dance with Dragons - Jon I

Jon said, “Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa.”

—A Dance with Dragons - Jon IV

After re-reading the FIVE BOOKS in like 10 weeks, I wrote my first meta:

But, unlike of Tyrion, Willas or even Robert, who pursue Sansa’s claim over her, there is a man that has been offered Winterfell and choose her over her claim.

"By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa."

"Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa."

Unlike all the high lords interested in becoming the Lord of Winterfell by marrying Sansa Stark, the bastard Jon Snow refused to despoil his sister Sansa of her rights, even if her claim is the one thing he has wanted as much as he had ever wanted anything.

ACOK, Dany II

My mind keeps on trying to push together pieces of Rhaegar killing Elia and Rhaenys, the Dornish burning to avenge Elia and Rhaegaral "nipping" Daenerys. I need someone to help me out here.

Wolf vs dog & the dog is black and yellow??? Come on! It's not that difficult... LOL

This is exactly the same as Sansa saying this about Lady:

"She's not a dog, she's a direwolf," Sansa pointed out as Lady licked her fingers with a rough tongue.

—A Game of Thrones - Sansa I

Robert was so wrong when he said to Ned: "Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it."

Direwolves are not dogs. Direwolves are not simple pets. Direwolves are superior in comparison. Also these particular direwolves, the Stark kids’s direwolves, are gifts from the Old Gods and part of their masters' souls.

Later, Sansa will say this to an old, blind, sick and toothless dog:

"I wish that you were Lady," she said.

—A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI

Does she sound "happier"???

Imagine thinking Lady could be replaced with a mere canine... Less with an old, blind, sick and toothless one...

You were so wrong Robert Baratheon!

The same happens with Jon feeling that he doesn't belong with the wildlings, because he was a wolf and not a dog:

Rattleshirt’s dogs greeted him with a chorus of snarls and growls and wild barking, as ever, but the direwolf paid them no mind. Six days ago, the largest hound had attacked him from behind as the wildlings camped for the night, but Ghost had turned and lunged, sending the dog fleeing with a bloody haunch. The rest of the pack maintained a healthy distance after that.

(...) "They’re dogs and he’s a wolf,” said Jon. “They know he’s not their kind.” No more than I am yours.

—A Storm of Swords - Jon I

It happened twice more that night, and again in the morning, when she woke to find him hard. The wildlings were stirring by then, and several could not help but notice what was going on beneath the pile of furs. Jarl told them to be quick about it, before he had to throw a pail of water over them. Like a pair of rutting dogs, Jon thought afterward. Was that what he’d become?

—A Storm of Swords - Jon III

So much for D&D's version of Jon belonging with the wildlings at the true north beyond the Wall...

So, this black bitch with yellow eyes could be an allusion to the hound and/or even the mountain, since black and yellow are clegane colors, but could also be about that wolves vs dogs clash that was supposed to happen in GOT S5, mentioned by GRRM in the last script he wrote for GOT Season 4:

Mysterious Direwolf Plans: Speaking of which: Martin leaves a little note for the producers when writing about Ramsay’s flesh-eating hounds, whom we see hunting down a girl for sport.

[ [N.B. A note for future reference. A season or two down the line Ramsay’s pack of wolfhounds are going to be sent against the Stark direwolves, so we should build up the dogs as much as possible in this and subsequent episodes.]]

No such clash exists in either the show or the books thus far—so this is an especially juicy little nugget. Martin wrote this note while he was still working on the early stages of The Winds of Winter. As of the end of the previous book, A Dance with Dragons, Ramsay was still at or near Winterfell, preparing for battle with Stannis. (Remember that, show-watchers?) So, at what point would his dogs have a chance to attack multiple Stark direwolves when in the books the animals are all separated and in the show, they’re mostly dead? Does this indicate that Ramsay’s fate in the book diverges wildly from his fate on the show? Undoubtedly, because . . . [x]

But, you know, D&D only cared about dragons...

i still think sansa is sapphic in some way, there’s too much coding and the way she describes women is just a little too 💅✨🏳️‍🌈

This is difficult

Fuck Rhaegar. He's a one minute man so I doubt I'll have to suffer for long

Marry Bronn. He is resourceful and cunning but I have to keep an eye on him since he tends to drop people when they're no longer useful

Hi there!

@istumpysk made a post about that, which we reblogged (x) I rather like their idea, that the mother is Catelyn here and that the Davos quote foreshadows her being resurrected via the power of Rh’llor.

That does not exclude that the mother here foreshadows both. GRRM loves to use important scenes to foreshadow several events.

So, I am in favour of both tbh.

Alright, alright, I'm telling you... This is a cautionary tale, by the way. [Also I'm going to sleep after this, it's four am right now.] Anons, please don't kill me.

It is 2015. Season 5 is happening. Sansa marries the worst character in the series. I see a video of the wedding scene through a YouTube recommendation. The comments make me almost puke.

Between this and 2016, my interactions with ASOIAF end up with one post here about how Sansa, even though she doesn't look it, really is a Stark even physically. (It involves weirwoods.) All I know is that I don't mind her. The second time I see something about ASOIAF, it's a DT stan post about how really she's the racist one, while DT has POC allies and a husband and how TargARYAN is nonsense. I decide to stay away from everything.

It is 2016. GoT is blowing up. I get thoroughly annoyed because I don't even know back then that it's the same thing as ASOIAF - in a fashion - just on TV. There are fights and anti anti anti debates everywhere. I block the tag.

2017, I block literally everything. Jonerice is everywhere. I am also neck deep in the Marvel Fandom now. I couldn't care less.

2019. The show ends. Everyone is frustrated. I also very briefly had interactions with stan twitter for aforementioned Marvel phase (killed by Endgame) and get exposed to all the discourse and tweets about Sansa being the only sane person left. I decide I like her. But also, of all things... DT/Sansa shipping. Regret asking yet? Too bad, you're getting it in full detail now.

One thing's for sure, they don't have half bad artists. Or fanfic authors, some were actually a pretty good read even for those who are Sansa fans first and foremost. I was always in it for her, she intrigued me the most. I must also say, between my very first fandom being super ship warring and truly as toxic and misogynistic as DT stans and Jonerice shippers claim we are [and regretting every thing I did or said or even thought back then. I was eleven! But it is still vivid in my mind.], and the nightmare that was Post-Civil War MCU fandom even if I wasn't there yet for the movie, I really wanted to take the third option. Avoid discourse and just peacefully water my crops and watch the grass grow.

They're also very convincing. Later on, it reads as supremely entitled and bitchy. When you don't know anything... Oh, and they made a point about the lack of incest. The huge waves of anti/proshipping discourse back then were also a major turnoff, so that seemed a nice, peaceful ship.

Eventually, it occurs to me after a few weeks, that multishippers must truly have the answer. No fights ever. I look up fic, and if you see D/J/S fic, you cannot escape The Northern Conqueror. I still haven't seen the show then, because I don't have access to HBO. Nor read the books, since I still barely know the difference or connection.

If you haven't read it, the first third is basically Jon and Sansa reclaiming Winterfell and falling in love, bypassing the Vale and Ramsay entirely. They suck me in right away. I love them. So much. Then DT shows up and she's? Boring? 0 chemistry with Jon? Everything feels like I've been cheated given the knowledge that they're show canon, that it was written between S7&8 and apparently predicted by the fan base for decades. Oh, and Sansa and her are only very narrowly hinted at for five seconds in the epilogue, I feel double cheated.

It is October by then. This has all taken place over a matter of weeks, mind. For the first time, I look for Jonsa fics. Deliberately. Of course, back then, some were still DT friendly. Until at last I encountered the fic. I don't remember the name. I can't find it in my AO3 history. But DT was depicted negatively in a way I had previously only encountered in that one article about how hindsight allowed us to see that her endgame was actually foreshadowed even in the show. I see points about what had previously been framed as plus points in the side of fandom I had been in. I end up back on tumblr, and look at meta by Jonsas/Dark DT truthers. I still don't believe in the endgame. I just ship it, now, with only a little shame.

The Ashford Tourney. The Snowflake kisses. I had never seen anyone else talk about this before. (Except the rare S@nsan about the former, and I encountered them once and ran like hell.) Then that one meta firmly against DT happens.

The fucking "Slave" line. I had never cared that much about DT in the first place, was bored by her even, and then I see... that. I lose my faith in the fandom, in BNFs. I lose my faith in the education system worldwide, that apparently failed so many people that they see this line, and somehow not only don't realize this person is evil, but even still cult-like worship a person who does this and deny that they would burn down a city. It's like a bucket of ice water. I swing like a pendulum, and I never swing back. Fuck her.

Jonsa, I still don't think will really happen. Now I think of Jon as an idiot who will have to pay for aiding and abetting her by killing her and being sent to the Wall. Until Jonnel Stark and Sansa Stark... Stark.

That post made everything seem different. Suddenly, this was in reach. I engage. I read more fanfic. I get my hands on the books at last. First via library (translation only), later I find a full boxset of the main series, original. I conclude that everyone except Jonsas or Dark DT fans has been brainwashed by BNFs. The Hound disgusts me. Tyri0n is an asshole of epic proportions. Arya and Bran are cool with me. Ned (and Robb too) is like watching a train wreck and unable to stop it. Cat is great but also complex. I like Jon fine, except when he's entitled at the start. DT is a little sympathetic, at first, but also a little strange in the bad way. Then Lhazareen happens and she makes me vomit mentally.

Previous fans have almost had me think that this was a non-black and white situation, that maybe DT and MMD could both have been victims somehow in that situation. Not any longer. Not when she openly blames Jorah, but kills her. Not when she pours oil down on her head. Not when all of this happened for her throne, and she didn't even care until it was so much she couldn't watch any longer.

I eventually take a break around a year after my conversion to Jonsa, because greener fandoms are a-calling.

I return because the pandemic sucks big time, so I go for comfort stuff, and I miss them, your honor. The 'Bell Meta' happens, because I remember the 'Dr0go's bells in his hair' and 'the King is dead' from DT and Sansa's chapters. And then find the ASOIAF search engine with more examples. It gains traction, including in the Jonsa circle I follow but am too intimidated to interact with because everyone is so smart, educated, cool and honestly quite a bit older, more mature, more experienced and far longer in the fandom than me. I switch to a side blog, because I want to talk about Jonsa without crazy stans hounding my main and at least one person from real life follows me there, and I would like to avoid this conversation. [Ultimately I don't, because the topic comes up at some point and I have to discourage my sister from stanning DT even from afar. This is my duty as the eldest sibling. Thankfully, she's smart. Jonnel was the last bomb needed for her to wordlessly accept they were going canon. You just need to be open-minded. I think I've told this story before on a Jonnel/Sansa post.]

And here we are, at now almost five in the morning, discussing how I went from a Da*nsa to a Jonsa. What a ride, and it was only what? Two years? Half of which spent in a different fandom? I dare you to find a crazier story than this one. The moral here clearly being: Don't get into a fandom through the fandom. You can end with violently different opinions.

As for the metas: