#jonsameta

Hi there!

I'm not aware of special Jon & Alayne metas (as in Jon will get together with Alayne, not Sansa), but Jonsa metas have alerted us to several things that connect Jon and Alayne (Sansa) in the Vale

- Sansa learns about Jon being LC via Myranda, and slips out of her role quite blatantly in that moment (to such a degree that Myranda might have become aware of Alayne being Sansa)

- Sansa hears the "ghost" wolf

- Sansa fashions her "bastard" persona of Alayne after her knowledge of Jon (Alayne being older than Sansa, "bastard brave" and not as fond of dancing as Sansa)

- Alayne is a bastard and Jon a lord - a reversal of their roles at the beginning

- There might be something to the fact that two castles are named Snow and Stone.

- The food situation in the Vale is so much better than elsewhere that Jon thinks about sending for help to the Vale.

- The Royces, a noble family of First Men blood, connects the Wall and the Vale very prominently and it is possible that Lord Royce has an inkling about Sansa as well. I'm sure they'll be prominently on the Starks' side in the wars to come.

That is just what is at the top of my mind. I'm sure others can add and I'll put it in the tag.

I personally think that Sansa won't stay Alayne that much longer (after all her true colour at the roots of her hair keeps returning).

Thanks!

~ my thoughts added:

I must admit that I have two problems with this theory: For Jon/Alayne to work, it is not only Jon who should have memory issues, but both of them. Otherwise a union is impossible. If you look at the marriages in the North, there has never been any wedding that was closer than 4th degree (according to Roman Law), the closest we have is cousin marriage and half-uncle-niece (which is 4th degree). There is no way that a union without the parentage reveal would be possible for Jon and Sansa. And Alayne remembers to be Sansa, even if Jon forgets everything, Sansa probably doesn't. And she wouldn't marry the man she knows to be her half-brother.

The other thing is: I really think we'll get Sansa as the Girl in Grey. There are so hints that point towards that: a subversion of the Red Riding Hood tale (Sansa being rescued by a wolf), Sansa reiterates Eddard's path North when he claimed the North in Robert's Rebellion, the rule of three (two false "girls in Grey", one true), Sansa singing Jon back to life, etc.

I freely admit though, that I have only a very vague idea how this will play out in the books other than that I'm sure we'll get a plausible reason for why the Knights of the Vale will ride for Sansa.

As for Jon and Sansa ruling jointly pre-parentage reveal. I could imagine something like they did on the show: Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, inheriting the seat that is hers by right as the last (known) trueborn child of Eddard Stark and Jon as king whose task is the military defence of the North against the threats that loom on the horizon.

That is not to say that a Jon/Alayne scenario as you set it up is not possible. I just think that we have good reasons to think that Jon will have memory issues (we have seen it with Cat and Berric) but there is no reason to think that Sansa will forget who she is. And if she does not remember who she is, she has no claim to the North and thus no reason for a joint rule with Jon.

I hope I haven't completely misunderstood your reasoning. If so, please feel free to correct me.

Hi there!

Jon's memories of Sansa are interesting. They don't happen that often but you can see that there is affection there: The "that's pretty" incident, the "magic beyond the wall" and of "Sansa singing and brushing Lady's coat".

They have a different quality than Jon's memories of Robb and Ary@ but what the author wants to do with that, remains to be seen.

The problem is that we don't get a Robb PoV, so we don't really know how Robb's interactions with Sansa were. The fact that Robb needs Catelyn to tell him that Sansa wrote her letter under pressure is telling though. I don't think Sansa and Robb knew each other too well. Sansa might have given Robb some advice but we don't see it. We have another PoV: Theon. But Sansa apparently didn't give Theon any advice either. It is intriguing, but as I said, we'll have to be patient as to what it means.

Hi there!

Yes, you could actually argue that Sam is in some aspects a stand- in for Sansa: Sam loves music, he is kind and he is the best example that Jon is very well capable of liking people who are no badass fighters.

I alert you to my meta on singing (here) and my pig boy meta (here)

And I just give you a nice tidbit:

Thorne smiled. "The Bastard wishes to defend his lady love, so we shall make an exercise of it. Rat, Pimple, help our Stone Head here." Rast and Albett moved to join Halder. "Three of you ought to be sufficient to make Lady Piggy squeal. All you need do is get past the Bastard."

"Stay behind me," Jon said to the fat boy. Ser Alliser had often sent two foes against him, but never three. He knew he would likely go to sleep bruised and bloody tonight. He braced himself for the assault. (AGOT, Jon IV)

And then there is this sweet scene:

Sam blushed. "I . . . I know some songs. When I was little I liked to sing. I danced too, but my lord father never liked me to. He said if I wanted to prance around I should do it in the yard with a sword in my hand."

"Could you sing some southron song? For the babe?"

"If you like." Sam thought for a moment. "There's a song our septon used to sing to me and my sisters, when we were little and it was time for us to go to sleep. 'The Song of the Seven,' it's called." (ASOS, Samwell III)

Singing is life. And Jon will be sung back to life by Sansa. It's her special magic, the one that parallels her to Luthien, one of Tolkien's great ladies.

Hi there!

People have been looking for Others stand-in in Dany's arc for ages and the Undying are pretty creepy, even if they have been humans. It could be a hint: The Undying look like Others and the readers might think that Dany will fight against the Others. Only she will not and in the end she will burn humans and not the ice enemies.

I don't know if we should connect the blue lips to the blue eyes.

As I said in my other post: We don't really know why the Undying show visions. It sort of seems to be a deviation from what might be their real intent: killing Dany. But the visions might have caused them to make an attempt on Dany's life? in that case, they might have reacted to true visions. But if they just wanted to lure Dany in they might as well all be lies, or only accidentally true or only true in the sense that GRRM shaped them into hints for the readers.

I don't think the Qartheens cared so much about the Undying in particular. I guess they were more concerned about the destructive power of the dragon, and that Drogon destroyed their most magical class is worrisome.

Also, and I have no idea if this is close to the original tale, but the Beast has a backstory. He was married before, but his wife was a forest fairy (unknown to him), but he loved hunting, so he kills her when she is in her deer form, she dies by his arrow. Ygritte/Jon vibes.

In the end when the curse is broken they run away from the castle and live like regular people, as if he renounced his “prince” life. The whole film has the recurrent motif of roses. Lea Seydoux is fabulous as Belle, ofc.

Hi there!

Yes, I know the movie. And I see what you mean.

I didn't like this version of Beauty and the Beast that much though, because I'm not sure about the backstory of the Beast. In the original tale the Beast is just arrogant and vain, but in this film, he actually kills his fairy wife because he went against the promise he gave her. He betrays her trust and that seems to me a far greater sin than just being an arrogant prince. Even in the Disney version the prince is just an asshole to someone he didn't know.

I think the movie should definitely have put more effort into letting the Beast feel remorse and I prefer the older versions.

I think it was very interesting though and the actors were great.

Hi there!

Just let them rant and avoid their tag. Littlefinger will die in the books as well and Sansa won't be a Littlefinger 2.0. There is no need for you to read these posts.

Hi there!

I think Jon and Sansa will be in Winterfell. Maybe the wall has been breached already and they are in dire straits. They also have caught feelings and it's all very angsty.

Arya will be on her way home after she has set Lady Stoneheart to rest after a second Red Wedding in the Riverlands that Jaime barely escaped alive.

Cersei will be a prisoner of Aegon, and it is is possible that Jaime will try to reach her - I'm not sure about that though. I still think that it might be Jaime that is the Lannister who survives.

Bran might have already escaped the clutches of Bloodraven, but maybe only at a price (e.g. a breach in the magic wall?). He is on his way to Winterfell. Maybe Theon somehow meets Bran and helps him? That would be nice.

Dany is either on her way to Westeros or the book ends with her landing. Tyrion is allied with her. I suppose the end of TWOW will see Dany getting rid of Euron - which will probably dupe readers into thinking her a heroine, because Euron is just that bad.

It could well be that the book ends on a note of equal hope and despair: The Starks have Winterfell again but the Others are on her way. All Starks have emancipated from their evil mentors but they now seem a bit under-equipped for the tasks that await them. Aegon has the throne, the Lannisters are defeated but Dany and her dragons are on their way.