#frozen thoughts

I'm sorry if many will disagree, but normaly, when an antagonist/villain is truely done in a sequel, you don't get tons of reminders of that character, most importantly if the story is focused on something completly different:

Generaly, you just make a couple callback and then move on to what the story has to tell you next, but here, seriously, there are thousands of even little parallelisms or visual elements that remind of Hans.

I can get that many hate the character (maybe a little too much) or are disappointed by his absence (me, for example), but I also think that, following the directors logic of just taking into account the two movies and nothing else ... it's quite significant.

So...its probably not a hot take at this point that Frozen has some issues the twist ending is shocking and emotional on the first viewing that you can forget about some issues...but on rewatches some aspects spring to mind.

Why the stone trolls? They cause the issue by traumatizing elsa further with their lightshow and advice that resulted in elsa isolating herself and the parents stuck between following the advice about control and sensing they are going wrong somewhere. Even more they erase Anna’s memory  of the incident but its never brought up if Anna remembers properly or not and she never confront them about it.

They also sing a dity shipping christoff and Anna which(while I ship it) I was confused by because Anna was literally dying and they were wasting time. They somehow shipped it despite Anna being a princess. They ignore that Anna said she already had a fiance. and Chistoff and Anna hadn’t really spent anytime together...I’m still confused when christoff is suppoused to have fallen for her?

He was annoyed but went along escorting her through the mountain because she helped buy him supplies and offered a big reward...but he roasted her about her apparently falling for and wanting to get married to a guy she met that day. His sleigh almost got caught on fire and fell off a cliff. He saw her fail at climbing a ledge which could be endearing and she stopped him from telling the olaf that he would melt...but she then kept him outside so he never got to see the ice castle. She also insulted the snowman and they almost got killed. ANY decent human being would be worried about someone almost dying..and she was still focused on that kiss with Han’s to save her life...so I am very confused when he fell for her?

Like...the trolls shipped them...but it felt like they would hsip him with anything with a pulse at this point and they roasted him and ignored what he was saying during the majority of it.

Like...I know it wasn’t true love or anything in the end anyway...but I’m confused when they are suppoused to fall for eachother? especially when they hyped him up as an alternative to save her life. Quest for Camelot had better action in showing why they could fall for eachother when the strongest shippers seemd to be ignoring the direness of the plot or that he thought she had a proper fiance from the begining.

Its even more confusing because they had a point that Christoff was a boy who ended up seeing Elsa and Anna taken to the trolls and seeing her memory wiped and Elsa’s powers and the advice given by the trolls....why wasn’t that brought up as a connection to both adress that aspect of why Anna was so in the dark on Elsa since Elsa was still refusing to properly talk..especially when he was being used as a bridge to help validate how Elsa was feeling(about Anna getting engaged to someone in a day is ridiculous) and he saw the beauty and wonder of Elsa’s powers in the castle immediately that he teared up. He also seemed to be chill with being isolated and alone and how there can be a sense of freedom in it which is similar to how Elsa felt which could have explored Anna’s aspect of reaching for connections more in contrast.

It also felt weird that he literally brought Anna in with her clearly out of it but no one invited him inside to stay? He was also skeptical on the strength of feelings after only a day so shouldn’t he have stayed incase it didn’t work?

Another thing....it kindof shows that Han’s wasn’t meant to be evil?

lots of people keep telling me the point is we didn’t suspect at all and that he showed his true colors of being power hungry...which I GET. the twist and the acting was done VERY well.

But it also feels odd because it doesn;t feel like he planned any of it?

He met Anna outside the castle with no way to know she was Anna the princess and he clearly showed a soft interest in her that the HORSE clearly noticed on him...even after Anna wasn’t watching him...so it was for us to see...which made his feelings feel sincere...so how was he suppoused to have planned from the begining any evil plots?

I mean yeah in the song we know he wanted his own place...but that not exactly evil? Anna was striving to connect with Han’s because she didn’t want to be alone anymore and she wanted a excuse to help keep the isolation from creeping back in since ELsa was deteremined they would close their doors again after the coorination. So him being drawn to Anna not just because she is cute but because if he marrys here he can leave home makes sense? Especially for a royal where political marriages can be a thing.

Any plans to kill Elsa or steal power doesn’t feel like they were there since just marrying Anna would give him a place anyway from his family. 

He also had no way to know Elsa had powers or that Elsa would freak out THAT much from the proposal. It was also Weaselton who hyped up the issues with Elsa and was trying to provoke going after her in a bad way. He also had no way to know Anna would leave him to take care fo things in the city while Anna went off to go after Elsa...he wasn’t even married or officially engaged at that point to her so if she got hurt or something happens to her wouldn’t that it worse for him?

He did go with Weasonton and those guards when no message from Anna  came and the snow kept going...but he also made it clear they weren’t to hurt Elsa were it was Weasonton to stirred up the attack on Elsa. Elsa was also op on powers......I’ve been told him knocking into the guard was deliberate to hit the chandeller to knock her out...but that was in a split second and how do you plan to knock someone out?  That could have killed her? if his plan was to kill her anyway then why save her?

I mean...maybe saving her could have been a plan to get on her good side so she’d let him and Anna get engaged or get married.

But its not like he knew or planned for Anna to get hit in the heart. People blame Han’s for Anna almost dying(which he did abandon her in that room) but it was Elsa’s powers that were going to kill her. its on him for telling Elsa about it when Anna wasn’t dead yet but it was still the city and weasonton who were planning to kill Elsa first. 

It was evil of him to lie to Elsa Anna was dead...but Elsa was still alarmed that she hit Anna in the heart anyways and that part wasn’t a lie. and Elsa still didn’t know how to turn off her powers.

I’m just.....I know evil Han’s was needed so that Elsa could fall into despair quicker and for Anna to save Elsa and do the act of true love. After all actually commnicating isn’t Elsa’s strong point.....

but.....I’m kindof curious about...was evil han’s REALLY nessacary? the twist was cool for a bit...but it feels weird because he both couldn’t plan a majority of what was happening (at best taking advantage of moments but planning feels like a stretch) and how it felt like he was genuinely interested in Anna at the begining and that it felt like he was trying to help Elsa when others were strait up trying to kill her...yes she got locked up...but Elsa on her own had run away and fought instead of discussing the issue of the ETERNAL WINTER. Where she was even willing to just drive Anna out even though that wasn’t going to fix the issue. 

and everyone else was trigger happy around Elsa...so putting her in chains to give the illusion she wasn’t a threat would calm everone else from trying to kill Elsa on sight and give a opportunity to talk.

As mucha s evil Han is a good lesson how people can take advantage and you can;t just trust someone who seems nice when you don’t really know them yet.....

Isn’t the implication that what Anna and Han’s have isn’t true love? even if they genuinely liked eachother(or seem like they do) they literally just met earlier. They also made a point that part of Anna’s motive was wanting someone and to not be alone and wanted a excuse not to cut off the outside like Elsa was plannning on doing again...now Anna definitly seemed to LIKE Han.

But its also clear they don’t know eachother that well yet.

SO even if Hans did genuinely like Anna back...isn;t the implication that the kiss wouldn’t have worked?

What would Anna have done if Han’s did kiss her...genuinely wanting to save her and seemed to like her...but it didn’t work?

Why did Han’s have to be evil as the reason for why Han’s kiss wouldn’t work so he wouldn’t even try?

Wouldn’t the plot issue still work if Han’s and Anna genuinely kiss but it didn’t work? like thy like eachother or they THINK they do but they literally just met so of COURSE the love isn’t true love strong?

If Han’s was genuinely distraunt by her dying and wanting to save her but somehow the kiss wasn’t enough? wouldn’t that still make her question her ‘true love’ reasoning that she used to dismiss elsa’s point earlier and reinforce the point christoff made about her not knowing Han’s well yet?

I mean yeah the kiss not working might point to it not being TRUE love or a ACT of TRUE LOVE but wouldn’t it give her more pause to reflect if its not like Han’s is a bad guy or anything or that there is no affection?

Like if it pointed that Elsa is right that getting married that quickly is ridiculous but Anna was also right that Han’s wasn’t a bad guy or anything like that.

like what would Anna do? think maybe Han’s doesn’t love her enough? or maybe the isse is her own feelings(since apparently Anna and Christoff are suppoused to have hit it off).

I mean Han’s could strill bring up maybe his more selfish reasons for wanting to get married so fast which is because he doesn’t want to go home again but if he doesn’t go evil about it then wouldn’t it still work? just like Anna convincing herself that she loved him despite the obvious they don’t know each other that well.

Wouldn’t that just point out that love is developed through time even if you click?

I mean....Anna could still do the quick marriage if she didn’t have a backup plan to live since she had been banking on this since Han’s at least seemed to have protected her sister...but couldn’t he have brought up that Elsa was there so maybe she could fix it? or while anna is being taken care of but now they don’t know what to do since the kiss didn’t work....the info could still get to Elsa?

Elsa’s go to at this point is to run away adn her worst fear happened...even without Han’s saying Anna is already dead wouldn’t it still alarm Elsa? I mean we wouldn’t have the dramatic save of Anna blocking a sword before it reaches Elsa in the same way probably....but wouldnt she still have a influx of emotions hearing Anna was dying? 

couldn’t weasonton or the other frightened people about the eternal winter be able to attack Elsa instead? even more if Elsa is frusterated even more because Else doesn’t know how to reverse the powers and can;t save her sister? couldn;t elsa bring up the rock trolls? like think to mind wipe Anna again? or think that Anna doesn;t deserve to be around her as a terrible sister since Elsa was self isolating due to her fear of hurting anna (or others again).

Elsa was pretty much despairing right? couldn’t it have her think maybe if she was killed maybe it could save anna or reverse the powers? so she could go out to be attacked by the mob? or lash out her emotions again sinceshe feels helpless? just for Anna to either come again to save her or talk her through it?

or Elsa could go to Anna? how would Elsa react if Han’s brought up how the kiss didn;t work? like would he bring up maybe Elsa was right to not want them to get married if it turned out he couldn’t save Anna when it mattered? would that hurt Elsa more because can Elsa judge when she loves Anna but ended uo hurting her the way she did as well?

I’m just saying....as much as the twist was fun.....it did feel like it gave Anna and Elsa a more easy way out from talking through the problems/communicating and it felt like Han’s didn’t have to be evil to make it work.

I mean...the red herrings o =f teh true loves I know have a point...

but malificent(the live action) did the twist already even before hand.

I also feel like it would make Weasolton have more impact(since what was the POINT).

I mean...it feels like they felt like they had to make Han’s evil so he couldn’t be a viable love interest for either of them which can be refreshing since you don’t need a man.

but on the other hand I think if they had made it so Han’s wasn’t actually a bad guy it would have a better impact on the guys?

like the movie stated that your options are an (handome) isolated dude who pees in the woods, eats reigndeer spit cover carrots, who likes money a bit too much, and who’s adopted family calls him a fixer upper which feels like it contradics his judgment about how you can’t fall for someone that quickly. or can;t even cut off a song him being shipped with you when he brought you there cuz your life is indanger that can disregard hpw you might have a previous relationship.

or a handsome guy who tuns out to be a crazy person who never liked you and planned to kill you and your sister to take over your kingdom(or just a manipulator who will take advantage of how your isolated to get you attached to them quickly).

which still feels a bit...icky I guess?

I mean the focus is of course on the sisters and their relationship so the guys don;t have to have that much spot light....but like....in most disney movies the guys don;t get that developed anyway?

like I know disney was trying to correct some of the disney views on love and true love and all that.....but theres nothing WRONG with love or wanting love. why not just show Chirstoff and Hans  as still good guys even if they not perfect?

Especially when there are sets ups in both of the dudes that could deepen the dynamics of Anna and Elsa as people by comparing and contrasting with what Han’s and Christoff bring to the table. I mean Christoff I think was great but the fixerupper song talked at me and just brought to light flaws instead of letting the character SHOW us aspects of the character and why that pairing works. 

Heck maybe explore at bit of the parent issues with Han and Elsa? I mean the whole reason the coorination was the parents dying! and Anna just found out her sister had secert powers and why her sister was so distant to some degree while Elsa finally had it out in the open and had her let it do aspect to contrast what her parents told her...but also seeing her worst fear that Anna was almost killed happen again.

Also the country strait up was resenting Elsa and thinking of her as some witch and the eternal cold? Why was that not adressed more? Weasolton definitly stoked the fire but it doesn’t change Elsa’s own people reacted like that. So wouldn’t it make more sense of Anna had some speech or even elsa had one to the city/country?

Also....Why didn’t Elsa have a worst reaction to Olaf...he’s nostalgic but he was also the snowman they made the day Anna almost died the first time?

Both girls were 21 when they lost each other to death. And I keep bringing this up - but it all has to do with their arcs as mythic (Elsa) vs. fairy tale (Anna) characters. I’ll elaborate.

21-year-old children queens derailed by grief with no existing family member left. 

And I say queen(s) because Anna became Arendelle’s queen the very moment Elsa died. 

So Anna’s 21 now, and Elsa’s reign started just a little bit earlier than her. Elsa became “Your Majesty” when she was 18. She was a kid, afraid of her powers, crippled by anxiety and loneliness from wanting to be with Anna yet choosing to stay away because she wanted to protect her.

Leading up to Frozen’s finale where Hans’ tries to kill Elsa, it makes sense - to me at least - that Elsa succumbed to defeat. There was nothing and no one to really live for. What was the point? Her kingdom thinks she’s a monster, she was hunted down and locked up in chains like a beast by those who once revered her as queen - and if she does choose to live, she’d have to do it in hiding and in fear all over again. She’d live a life with her name tainted as the monster who killed her own sister, and there’ll be a bounty on her head: kill the beast and end this winter! (whoa, that gave me Beauty & The Beast vibes). But Elsa doesn’t even know how to do that even if she desperately wanted to. And that’s the saddest part about it all. 

Even in isolation and in death, Elsa was destined to tragedy. A mythic character’s fate.

She also had the (false) security that Anna married Hans and that the kingdom will at least have a ruler that they could trust - a ruler who tried to do what’s right by killing the monster who killed the princess and sunk Arendelle into an eternal winter. Even in death, Elsa was fulfilling her duties as a queen by letting her reign end so that Arendelle could have a shot to a sunny (literally) future.... and justice for Anna’s death based on Hans’ (a heartbroken ‘lover’) narrative.

How Anna deals with her grief is different from Elsa’s because Anna was already rooted in a secure place before all of that happened. In Frozen 1,  Elsa had absolutely nothing and she was grieving Anna’s death with immense guilt. As the fairy tale character leading up to her loss, Anna had her taste of a happy ending - her kingdom is (was) safe, her family is (was) united, and she has (had) her prince. Elsa’s arc before Frozen 2 was filled with anxiety, pain, separation, and false happiness. 

The reason why Queen Anna didn’t succumb to grief and loss like Elsa did was because she had a lot to lose even after Elsa’s death. Her kingdom and everything she knew was going be be wiped away, and she still needed to do what was morally right. Elsa was going to die under Hans’ sword thinking she was doing what was right. And in Frozen 2, she died in Ahtohallan trying to stop what had already happened in the past.

And Anna was the only heir left. Kristoff can’t take her place because they didn’t marry yet, so Anna had no choice but to live for the sake of Arendelle. And Anna thought Kristoff had abandoned her - so she really was alone in all this. This is why she had an entire song about choosing to take another step even when the gravity of loss weighs her down. And as a fairy tale character, Anna is a fixer (listen to the FtFtiF reprise where she sings about literally fixing the storm with Elsa). This has been consistent throughout her arc in Frozen 1 as opposed to Elsa who’s bound to run away from her problems due to extreme self-fear and anxiety.  Unlike Elsa, Anna comes out as the hero after all of this - the fairy tale character arc. A hero that has everything and nothing all at once. It’s empty accolades. Anna didn’t cause any eternal winter, does not have magic, and certainly was not responsible for Runeard’s betrayal - she’s righteous as default to be a hero. The tragic, mythic character does not and will not have the same ending as Anna would if her arc and her story was isolated from the fairy tale character’s. This is so important and this is why they’re one bridge. Their stories would both be void without each other. 

This is why Anna had an entire song about her grief about losing Elsa. 

Elsa did not have her own song about her own grief... because Frozen 1 was her entire The Next Right Thing.  And that song started to play for her when she was 8 years old. Every step she took right after the accident was a careful, deliberate one to keep Anna safe. 

so I’ve been thinking about how angry I was for Elsa not attending Anna’s coronation, and it turns out I was a bit mislead. The ending of f2 wasn’t really her Anna’s coronation (to my understanding). it was Anna’s epilogue; as well as the opening ceremony for Agnarr and Iduna’s statue. so it wasn’t really a coronation I guess? here in the f2 art book, it’s stated as Anna’s epilogue outfit. I’m guessing the ending was supposed to be her coronation but they changed it. even though Anna’s epilogue was really to show Iduna and Agnarr’s statue, why wasn’t Elsa there? it’s her parents as well. this just confuses me. I’m assuming if it was her coronation, Elsa wouldn’t miss it. because they’re sisters.

BUT. it wasn’t her coronation after all. It was her epilogue to celebrate her role as new queen of Arendelle by presenting Iduna and Agnarr’s statue. why would Elsa miss it? I’m unsure. But for the films sake, Elsa wasn’t there (🙄) to show how Elsa doesn’t live in Arendelle anymore-but in the enchanted forest/Atohollan. I like to imagine she lives in Atohollan rather in the forest surrounded by people she barely knows. or, she still lives in her home aka Arendelle with her sister. (Also when it comes to relatives, she’s not related to anyone from the Northuldra bc in DS, it’s revealed that Iduna comes from another Northuldra tribe. her parents were murdered and the Northuldra tribe we see in the film took her in. i know she doesn’t have to be related to them bc the Northuldra is their mothers people.)

And maybe she asked Ahtohallan to show her.

Then, as the spectral figures of snow manifested, she watched as Olaf disintegrated in her sister’s arms, watched as Anna wept over her death, watched as she was nearly crushed by giants and lost in the crumbling dam.

Point 1: Homeboy says what he thinks he’s getting from Anna in the song.

Point 2: He knows the sisters have been shut off from the outside world and wilfully takes advantage of Anna’s naïveté.

Point 3: If you don’t think he was purposefully getting Elsa upset in her ice palace to validate her death, most likely by stabbing her in the back, literally and figuratively, watch it, again.

Point 4: I’m fairly certain he was going to kill Anna in the confusion of the final act, but found his luck with Elsa having frozen her heart.

I would feel bad for him. He’s the 13th son of a royal family with no chance of the throne. That being said, he was raised with this knowledge. He knew his station in life since the moment he was born. He then decided to attempt a coupe and double murder of a royal family at the first real opportunity he saw.

I'm so sick and tired of people justifying Anna as queen by saying she's better with people, better communicator, etc etc.

...how? Anna's great with people, yes! But...so is Elsa, actually. Even during her coronation, we see her actually speaking to people, she manages to adopt the relaxed persona at the party until she's pushed by the only person with that sort of power over her aka Anna.

At the end of the movie she is excited to make an ice rink for everyone, she is elated to have them there enjoying themselves. There is nothing to show she doesn't communicate well and if anything she's obviously involved with them.

Even the SHORTS show that! Heck OFA and her excitement at celebrating with the whole town, talking to and inviting them.

Some Things Never Change she appears to be happy and again involved.

Hell in the comics Elsa is always around and likes to go out, likes to visit other kingdoms...

So miss me with that "Anna is better suited because she's so friendly and social!" bs.