#eldritch comedy

IRL, virginity is a silly social construct with way too much weight given to it and arbitrary/homophobic (e.g.: "only p in v penetration counts") or erroneous (e.g.: "broken hymen") definition. It's often used as a marker of innocence or purity; a lack of worldly knowledge.

Lucifer, while perhaps never before having the desire or opportunity to have physical sex while inside a vessel, still has carnal knowledge. Using actual bible canon to fill in the obvious here: Lucifer spied on the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve ate the Fruit of Knowledge and learned shame--so he's seen sex, at the very least. And he was not like some guileless child exposed to adult sexuality without understanding-- he was one of God's first angels, and he was there to plot.

He knows how sex works and uses lust and desire to manipulate people. He has simulated sex in Hell, at the very least -- raping Sam. Calling a rapist a virgin just cuz he hasn't stuck his physical dick in a physical vagina is just. Ridiculous.

And in spn, the concept of virginity for an angel is even more ridiculous to me. Imagine stuffing a millenia-old cosmic being, of unknowable power and form, into a tiny human meatsuit and holding that amalgamation to the human standards of sexuality and virginity. When not only Lucifer, but MOST angels, see sex and other human activity as beneath them?? Like I said in my prev tags, it's an eldritch comedy!

When not in a vessel, angels haven't been shown to have a sex drive, or interest in romantic or sexual love. Most angels IN vessels don't seem to, either. (Obvs there are outliers, especially after the s8 Fall, hence the "most".)

Sure, you can say Lucifer is technically a virgin -- but then so are all angels. Canonically they're "junkless," so if someone WERE to stick to the idea that one must have sexual organs to have sex, no angel can. Are we just supposed to count their vessel as their physical body? It's not even theirs.

IIRC most angels refer to their vessel as their vessel, detached from their self. They're just borrowing it. They have to ask for consent. This act of penetrating a human body with their grace is already used as a metaphor for sex all over canon.

But if, further, we're to believe virginity can be a thing that actually applies to angels -- when exactly does it count? If an angel in a vessel sticks their fingers or other object into their vessel's or someone else's hole of choice, does that not count because it's not p in v? Does it count if the physical vessel orgasms, even without p in v? It's a question adjacent to one of my main points about the concept of virginity in the first place-- the parameters of what "counts" are arbitrary and homophobic.

And then we have Sam being raped in the cage! With Hallucifer, some argument has been made that it was just euphemistic taunting or something. Nevermind how unrealistic it would be for the actual Devil to torture Sam for over a century in Hell and NOT include sexual torture. However, I'm unable to read later Sam/Lucifer interactions as anything other than referring to actual rape in the cage, and therefore canonizing it even more than Hallucifer did.

So what actually is the point-- after so much conniving manipulation and taunting of sexual assault-- of claiming Lucifer is a virgin, and being serious about it? Is it shaky scaffolding for a redemption arc? Is it just another crass throwaway joke? Is it poorly done commentary on the societal assignment of purity to virginity?