#apoptoxin 4869

This chapter opens up with what I think is very underestimated, crucial information... the origin of Mary's suspicious APTX4869 side-effect coughs. We are now getting the vital context that these developed on her potentially because she was already having a cold (stuffed nose) when she got drugged by Vermouth in File 1149.

As many may know, I have had this long held suspicion ever since Mary's introduction that her role was gonna be the key to the antidote completion, which I have written thoroughly about here:

In short, Mary's APTX4869 side-effect coughs, that suggest that she is in a special immune-system-active state (which has been the prerequisite for the prototype antidote to work), is gonna be requirements for the protoype antidote to reach permanent reverting effect to adult form. This new information from Masumi indicates that in order to acquire this special state that Mary is in, you need to be in the stages of having a cold before digesting APTX4869.

This immediately made me wonder, what would happen if an APTX4869 shrunkie in adult form digest APTX4869 drug again? If the shrunkies are now "immune" to the deadly effect and can only shrink by APTX4869, then maybe if Shinichi ever faces Rum in his original form during the Rum climax, he might not even need to fake his death in an elaborate planned way. if Rum attempts to re-drug Shinichi in order to test if Shinichi couldn't die by APTX4869 before, and If Rum then is chased away because of circumstances (allies coming to Shinichi's aid), then Shinichi might simply shrink back to Conan and once again fools Rum & the BO and pretends like Shinichi officially died.

To further add on this scenario, If Mary's unique state is what is necessary for shrunkies to revert permanently back to adult form with the prototype antidote, then maybe the way they can replicate her unqiue state is by disgesting APTX4869 in adult form while having a cold, like she did when she was drugged in Vauxhall bridge. Since having a cold is implied to be the prerequisite for the temporary antidote to work at all, if Shinichi faces Rum as an adult, he would already have a cold by then. So if the above scenario transpires where Rum re-drugs Shinichi, then maybe a reshrunken sick Shinichi will acquire Mary's coughs in the future, making him viable for reclaiming his body permanently. This could mean that once he finds out that he can revert back to his old self permanently (maybe after witnessing Mary reclaiming her body by the mere use of the temporary antidote), he might then decide to stay in the form of Conan intentionally because of the convinient cover after Shinichi's re-officiallized death (which would also be Gosho's way of keeping the status quo of Conan solving cases, the beating heart of show, alive).

Mary side-effects and APTX4869 future aside, regarding the journalist, his trackrecord is showing that he likes to bluff-blackmail people on things that he has signed agreements on with his editor not to dislose. I think when he remembered Masumi, he was acting like he only finds her familiar when he in fact already remembered her. The way he was ready to have a full-on private meeting is already showing that he knows/is in possession of perceived "damning" things about Masumi, so he is already gauging that he could blackmail Masumi if she recalls where she met him.

In other words, I think that back in File 1096, when he took the picture of Masumi and Mary in the crowd, his newspaper agency was approached by Vader and were made/paid to censor any footage & photos from that incident outside the hotel where Mary was. So this journalist assumed that Masumi & Mary were high-profile people whose whereabouts needed to be kept hidden. I therefore suspect that now after his death, the actress he had an affair with will explain to Masumi in the resolution that he told her he remembered Masumi and wanted to gauge if she came from money and if she was desperate enough to pay him not to release the photos (that he likely wasn't allowed to release anyway).

If Conan listens in on this, then he will know that someone powerful is behind the censorship that he suspected in File 1097 and that someone is making moves related to Mary (for the sake of the mislead, he will probably spin it as a potentially nefarious thing). In other words, this could be setting up the beginning stage of Conan learning about/meeting Vader, like if he happens to notice him around Mary in the future.

Another final thought that came to me was about the "repeated disguise" shtick regarding the minister candidate. I couldn't help but wonder if is this was a Wakita return foreshadowing.

Gotta say man it was good, you did some pretty neat observations.

I actually read it quite a while back and had some questions about it but was too lazy to write them down

So here they are :

Rum wants to kill Asaka because she heard her voice.Then wasn't it Rum's fake voice (Wakita version) according to your theory so why would Rum want to kill someone who heard his fake voice?

And Muga already seems to be pretty young.Why would he need to take aptx to get his eyes back.He would turn into a teenager if he did.

Sorry, I forgot to ask one more thing. What do you think about Muga's age? It isn't fake then?

Thanks for the feedback ^^

Rum's fake voice is an impersonation of his father's voice, who is an already established prominent figure. The impersonated voice is something that he most likely carries in important business and VIP settings (since we know this identity acted as a spokesman for Karasuma Renya 47 years ago), so one could even argue that it's more dangerous for the "father" voice to get exposed than his true voice, especially if Rum has seperated his "Muga" identity from any public/sensitive affairs related to the BO/Karasuma.

As for Rum considering "turning back the clock" on his right eye, if Rum is suspecting that de-aging is a possible side-effect of APTX4869 drug based on Sherry's research notes and the mysterious reappearance of Kudo Shinichi after getting drugged (as mentioned in my review), then he could be planning on finding Kudo Shinichi not only for eliminating loose ends, but also for research purposes. Rum is likely aiming to see how the drug affected Shinichi in order to progress APTX4869 research and perfect the drug, so that its effects are more precise and controlled. I don't think Rum is considering taking a risk by directly taking APTX4869, but rather hoping to develop it to a point were it isn't toxic and where they can target its effects to his right eye (through injections for example).

Haibara indeed meant that the goal of the foolish research (BO research) wasn't to make a poison (or something dream-like like reviving the dead). Apoptoxin 4869 was merely a prototype drug, unfinished result of a drug with a differently intended effect.

When APTX4869 was created by her, it wasn't the first time it existed. It was actually a recreation of her parents' prototype, which was used by Rum 17 years ago during the Kohji case. Gin most likely already knew of its past existence due to that incident that became known as Rum's screw up, so when Gin was given access to Sherry's version of the same poison, he naturally is gonna believe that the BO's aim was to recreate this convenient murder weapon.

Gin most likely isn't aware of any age-manipulating effects and likely doesn't know who the real mastermind of the BO is (if Karasuma Renya is alive despite his age as the current boss). Otherwise, the scope of his deductions and suspicions wouldn't have been this limited after having faced Conan indirectly many times with hints of that his enemy is a kid (i.e File 383, where he had all hints to suspect that a kid planted Itakura's incomplete software and hid inside a locker).

Hello ^^ likewise!

The part about Haibara sneezing and playing games was in File 1025, where she was giving context to Atsushi’s work history. Haibara monologued that the organization wanted her to create a different drug earlier than that, in File 948.

This was right after mentioning that she recreated her parents’ prototype drug with the remains that she could scrap by. In other words, Haibara was basically reiterating the same thing she said in File 179 and File 384, that she was not tasked to create a poison or a dream-like drug, but rather a “foolish” drug that most wouldn’t deem valuable.

In File 821 however, we learn that the Miyano parents were trying to create what they described as “terrifying” and a “dream” drug, which is the opposite of what Haibara was tasked.

My conclusion on all of these tidbits of information is that the Karasuma group funded Atsushi’s dream research of creating this wonder drug “Silver bullet”, that is most likely intended to prolong life and/or cure illnesses, since Atsushi and Elena are doctors. However, I think that the Karasuma group also requested that Atsushi, in return for the funding, also takes over the organization’s 50-year-old (File 189) “foolish” research, to create this not-so-wonderous foolish drug (as mentioned by Vermouth in File 434), which is the research that Haibara later took over.

The Miyano parents didn’t successfully finish creating “Silver Bullet” (Atsushi’s drug) before dying, however, they did produce prototypes of presumably the foolish drug (the organization’s drug) and it became the poison “Apoptoxin 4869″ (that has a rare side effect of shrinking/de-aging people). Haibara then took over the organization’s foolish research after her parents and recreated the same prototype, seemingly in her attempt to create the foolish drug.

For further developments on the speculation of what APTX4869 was a prototype drug for as well as research information timeline, check:

As for what the organization’s foolish drug is, I suspect that since she said it’s something that most people wouldn’t deem valuable, but at the same time has something to do with aging (since Sherry researched longevity in mermaid island), she is supposed to create a drug that rather than prolonging life by manipulating aging (something that people would want to gain more time), it rather shortens life by speed growth / aging up fast (something that people wouldn’t want to not lose time). This would explain Haibara’s opposite descriptions of her drug goal (compared to Elena’s) and could also be tied to the black organization boss’ (Karasuma Renya’s) current state, like potentially being stuck in the form of a child without being able to age (like Vermouth), due to a past side-effect (”punishment”) after rushing against his fading life (”stream of time”) by taking a prototype drug (File 191/380).

London Arc #35: Kudō Family! APTX 4869!