i can't believe i agree with fodlan's X - wait let me rephrase this
Listening to best Fodlan paralogue with JP!audio made me realise how the point being made was even more "in your face" than what the localisation brought -
Why Rhea turns to Seteth in this line?
Well, that's because the JP!Line is :
私兵団の長として、王国軍の中でも信頼を 得ているとか。そうでしたね、セテス？
You'll recognise Seteth's name - basically, Rhea's saying she heard good things from Barney who's respected in the Kingdom army etc etc... then adds some "right Seteth?", as if she's asking for his opinion.
But we know how it goes :
He disagrees and has doubts about Barney - it's basically their support - because Barney has ties to Agarthans, and Rhea
dgaf about Seteth's doubts.
As usual.
But that's not all!
However, this felt a bit off compared to the audio, so I checked it and Rhea goes instead :
セテスにも困ったものです。フレンのことと なると、途端に冷静さを欠くのですから
Machine translated, she calls Seteth a "real pain" lol, most likely he does stupid things and somehow got himself caught by random bandits, which would never happen usually, because here his mission involved Flayn. However, despite the portrait, Inoue's VA is playful so, again, she's making fun and teasing him.
Something like "he's so annoying whenever Flayn is involved he becomes an idiot and even gets caught by randos" while Flayn's all "I know it's embarassing".
Poor guy can't catch a break in this paralogue :(
---
So unless Heroes releases Halloween!Seteth next and has him interact with Festive!Rhea and Kitty!Flayn, this paralogue is the only occasion where the bond the nabateans share - at least Seteth and Rhea or Flayn and Rhea - is shown and not only informed.
Sure, Rhea has only 5 lines with Flayn in this paralogue, but they are referenced too in one of Flayn's base dialogues where she says Rhea's a fun loving and playful person. Yes, because we see it here (at seteth's expense lol).
In Houses? Rhea shares no lines with Flayn. Or, to be generous, maybe 2, but it's nowhere near as qualitative, as in, being a dialogue or showing the bond between them, as the lines shared in this paralogue. So yes, even if she's, for all intents and purposes, as fridged in AG as she is in the Houses routes bar Tru Piss, she interacts with people she could and should have interacted with in Houses.
Sure it's not much for a NPC with limited screen time, but it's still more breadcrumbs than what Houses ever did.
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@fantasyinvader I fell on some of your posts about Supreme PR and what is Claude's endgame in GW, that is, basically removing her casus belli since her war officially started against Rhea and the CoS :
While it could be a watsonian point for Fraud to have, even if, judging how she immediately started antagonising Leicester borders when it was Faerghus who welcomed the CoS refugees, it can be easily debunked.
But Doylist wise? Those NPCs are in SB and don't show a shred of awareness :
Seriously ?
Apparently the Western Church sucks because they kept on antagonising Rhea, but, uh, bro, your in the camp of the army who declared war against her?
So unless this NPC is expressing self-doubts at the course of actions of his army, I wonder what the actual crap he is supposed to say here, Western Church BaD bcs they don't like Rhea, but Imperial Army GoOd bcs they don't like Rhea??
Adding to that how the Southern Church's practices are apparently completely at odds with what Rhea and her Central Church were preaching... This just feels like this NPC needed an excuse to diss on the Western Church, or worse, he isn't even aware the Imperial Army declared war on Rhea!
Bro ????
This NPC believes the CoS should protect the people of Adrestia even if Adrestia started a war against the CoS :S
Back to Fraud, while Supreme Leader relies a lot on PR to bend people to her cause, her own people are completely, uh, unaware about what the War is about or worse, believe the world should polish their shoes even when they're busy destroying it.
AKA there's no need to convince them with through PR, given how disconnected from the events they are, unless we're supposed to understand they ended like that after reading too much prop- information campaign.
Playing a bit with the Nopes datamine, I'm more and more convinced Shamir and Felix would compete to gain the "tsun" medal out there
I know some fanon projects hard on Shamir being a #detached and #badass and #nostringsattached kind of person when CF and especially SB reveals she's anything but -
Bar her partnership with Catherine, Shamir is the person who says this :
A lot of people are getting fired up now that we've pushed the Empire back this far.
They're saying Garreg Mach's as good as ours, but I'm not so sure.
Yeah, but if that's what the higher-ups in the church are aiming for...
Then Rhea will have no choice but to move. The cardinals and the others are still alive, after all.
This last line? She has the sad portrait.
Is she worried about Rhea being pressured to retake Garreg Mach when the route isn't secured yet/the Monastery is stil guarded? (iirc it's in Nopes' chapter 11).
Then, in the Ailell chapter :
Honestly, I would've rather been with Rhea than stuck here.
Barney wonders why she's complaining, apparently it's not because of the heat because southern Dagda is hotter than a volcano (???), not because she has a debt to Rhea, but because she prefers to lead ambushes and all.
But note how Barney says :
Is it 'cause you want to protect the archbishop? You owe her some kind of debt, don't you?
And Shamir only replies :
I've long repaid my debt. I'm not like Catherine.
Sure we can infer the "I'm not like Catherine" means she doesn't want to protect Rhea like Cat does, but she explicitely mentions having repaid her debt - something she always pulls out insistently when the topic of Rhea comes out in GW :
Why the sad portrait Shamir?
Are you saddened that you have to face Rhea, or that you believe you're betraying her expectations ?
In JP it's : あなたには恩があった……。返し終わったつもりだが、足りなければ許してくれ, Googl'd it gives "I owe you a debt of gratitude... I think I've paid it all back, but please forgive me if it's not enough."
It's more explicit : she apologises for not repaying her debt, or by repaying it with, y'know, Golden Shower (or Supreme Bullshit) shenanigans!
And in the final fight :
Why the angry portrait Shamir?
何度もすまないな、レアさん。 だが、これが私の選んだ道なんだ -> ""I'm sorry again, Lea, but this is the path I've chosen.""
Shamir emphasises how sorry she still is at having to fight because of the plot, but, well, given how she opens their battle lines with this, why Shamir felt the need to say that, uh, she is really and still sorry to have to fight against her, but that's her path etc etc?
Adding to this how Shamir, in SS, is the only non nabatean character on Rhea's floor when she has to recover from having eaten missiles and she worries, in her own way, about her condition.
Like, Seteth is already on that floor, so she's obviously not there for security purposes so...?
tl;Dr : it reads as if Shamir really dgaf about her former affiliation, the KoS, Catherine and Rhea herself.
She just, happens to be there when Rhea's in her direst state, she worries - but only for strategic purposes, don't be mistaken! - about her being pressured to lead a charge against a still well defended monastery - and anyways, she's not angsting at pointing her bow at her, because she already repaid her debt! So stop bringing this up okay, she repaid that debt! If she feels like trash, it's totally unrelated, besides, do you know she really really really repaid her debt, so no old grudges, okay??
Obviously.
Tru Tl;Dr : Shamir tries to get close to Caellach's magnificence, but fails.
Sure, it was something Sylvain alluded to in Nopes, but even in that game it felt... weird, as in, Delibird having Insomnia as a hidden ability when one of its "common" abilities is Vital Spirit, aka something that already prevents that pokemon from falling asleep -
So in the B convo, it goes like this :
A perceptive question! This here is a blueprint I came up with for a new kind of fire orb.
Sylvain wants to create pocket sized fire orbs to knights will be able to use carry them as easily as "swords".
Barney wonders what would be the purpose :
What would that accomplish? Knights don't have the training to use something like that.
To which Sylvain replies with something that is, well...
Right you are. The wielder needs both special training and some natural magical ability to use one. At least, that's the case with our current fire orbs.
And yet, according to the .org wiki, Fire Orbs, in FE16, are E rank black magic, aka the lowest rank meaning it's usable by beginners. So idk where Sylvain's "special training and some natural magical ability" comes from, especially when you consider that both noble and commoner classes, aka the "civilian" classes, are able to use magic.
Gameplay wise, the kid who eats sweets and laughs at Alois' jokes would be able to use a fire orb!
(unless Sylvain's fire orbs are different from the ones in Garreg Mach?)
Which brings me to my main goal—making it so that anyone can use them, no matter their background.
As is the case with this verse's writing where hot water is discovered by characters when a sauna exists - this is not a groundbreaking ivnention or, even, needed, because the fire orbs we see and can use in FE16 are already usable by everyone "no matter their background". It's E rank magic, meaning base!Raphael can use them !
I mean, think about the havoc we could wreak if your average knight or myrmidon could also blast out some fire magic whenever they wanted.
:)
Myrmidons and Knight aren't classes who are able to use magic, they can only do so on promotion. So, in, uh, less gameplay mechanics ways, I supposed that'd require training : Sylvain basically wants to give a fire spell to non magic classes?
Because, somehow, in this world, you can use magic as a commoner, but not anymore when you don a leather armor and start using a sword :(
peak ludonarration
And yet, fire orbs already require, literally, no training to use.
Battle's not the only place it'll come in handy. People who don't have any other training could use it for self-defense.
:)
I'm clowning on him because it's damn too easy, but if Sylvain's reasoning was more focused on how easy to carry and mobile the fire orbs he's thinking of would be, I guess it'd be less, say, ridiculous than focusing on the required abilities to use something that... can be used by anyone.
Or we could have gone through some "is it really wise to give weapons to people who received no training on how to use them" route, but no.
Nopes being a Fodlan game, it means it has to focus on "abilities" to make a small nod at the muhrit praised somewhere else, and how making things usable by everyone regardless of their birth/skills/abilities is supposed to be great...
Even if, in the case of fire orbs, it is already the case !
Rhea ded and, believing for the sake of this post that Fraud is a man of his, fraudulent, words, without Rhea the Federation stops attacking the Kingdom, Nader stops "shopping for souvenirs" and the Srengese are told to fuck off and go home -
Fraud suddenly asks Supreme Leader "but there's no reason to continue your war, the Archbishop is dead!"
And Supreme Leader replies with "It would be more convenient for me if the Kingdom ceased to exist."
bcs it's too corrupt/entranched in the CoS's ways or some shit to hide the real reason why this war started.
Fraud's masterplan (TM) is piss, and he realises it a bit too late, but no worries for the Federation people, the Empire already said they'll compensate their deaths with money !
But on the Kingdom's side?
Would Dimitri throw his lot with the Federation, to ensure Faerghus' existance?
You can't convince me Sylvain and House Gautier would rather go rogue, or hell, join the Empire rather than side with the Federation.
Hell, considering how Catherine died while Fraud was watching eating popcorn, you can also add House Charon in Gautier's rebellion - doubly so because Charon valued the CoS a lot, and abandoning people in need is not something Faerghus does.
Since AG exists with this :
"My people are not fools enough to rejoice in the surrender of their territories to invaders."
"There is no morality in turning our backs on the institution at the very foundation of our lives. We must support the church as they have supported us."
Galatea - being pissed at the CoS's death and the king's decision to side with the Federation invaders - would be really really really sour about this entire arrangment. Would they side with the Gautier-Charon group? idk
Sure, Dimitri said he'd do anything in his power, as the King of Faerghus, to protect the people of Faerghus, no matter the sacrifices, even if it means facing dissent and accepts "punishment" but...
The Kingdom ends up with a King at its head who lost all legitimacy : no CoS to back him up but the stigma of having abandoned the beloved institution and its leader instead + the loss of trust (and maybe loss in general) of several vassals, especially the most important ones like Gautier, Charon and maybe Galatea + his "alliance" with the Fraud is worth bananas if Adrestia wants to push forward, and Fraud's peeps are definitely not going to risk their lives to protect the Kingdom (at least there's no guarantee from Dimitri's side).
The most optimal outcome would be to protect our people, our future, and the church all at once.
But if I must choose to sacrifice one of those things, the answer is clear.
I will do what I must as the king of Faerghus.
Note Sylvain's saddened portrait here - I doubt it's only because he feels bad for abandoning the CoS, or even thinking about it...
In the end, sadly for Dimitri, he ends up sacrificing two of those things - the CoS and his people, who already died against the Federation or who will suffer now that the CoS isn't here anymore for them, or will refuse being his people anymore because hey, siding with invaders, really? - as for the future, well :
Too bad this guy isn't here anymore!
Because let's face it, if Supreme Leader accepts a truce to return to Enbarr to eat some sweets before unifying Fodlan again, what is going to happen to the Kingdom? Would the Federation just leave this completely destroyed land on its own, and not ask for "compensation" for anyone who died?
The Federation allied with the Empire, who's to say Fraud isn't a mere lapdog and won't sacrifice Faerghus to curry Supreme Leader's favors and have her turn her attention away from Leicester?
"But Fraud promise he wasn't interested in destroying the Kingdom!"
Fraud destroyed the Kingdom's religious support, pisses on its culture and raided its borders, unprovoked to only leave after killing some of its most important people.
Sure, he didn't kill Dimitri or put an ugly flag on Firdhiad, but he effectively destroyed the Kingdom, as in, destroyed what makes Faerghus, well, Faerghus.
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It's during the final batte of Golden Shower, Rhea goes :
Such an abominable presence... Yes, I knew that one day you would turn your blade on me.
Coupled with Seteth's initial reluctance, in AG, to have Barney be too close to the Archbishop and whatnot, it's more or less very heavily implied, if not outright stated with this GW quote that Nabateans knew Barney had some "link" to Agarthans, and yet, as always, they don't draw their blades first.
GW!Rhea, during her last moments, wonders first if it had been a good idea to spare the descendant of the Elites, given how Fraud'n'pals are attacking her, and now, wonders if it had also been a mistake to, well, have "trusted" Barney enough to spend time around students or at least let them live -> but GW!Rhea, while not being not in the same mindset as CF!Rhea, is still a Rhea who stopped believing or caring, in general, about the people she usually cares about, she's twisted and warped to begin to think like Macuil does when we know that's not how she operates under normal circumstances, aka, when people don't want to kill her - and her followers! - for the lols or because "why not".
Fraud's basically pulling a bootleg copy of Nemesis' quest : his goal is, as far as Rhea knows, her death for no plausible or understandable reason (as if Nemesis had any, bar looting materials?) and uses her siblings' remains to do so.
But back to your og question, anon, and I suppose, to the post your ask refered to, FE Fodlan's writing is so divorced from, say, Jugdral, when it wants to copy what themes Jugdral, and tbh, other FE verses made regarding the entire "humanising your enemies and seeking coexistence between different factions" that the possibility of living with Agarthans is only alluded in this battle quote, where we have Rhea basically reconsider this position because Barney wants to kill her!
or it's even more hidden than the identity of Dermott's dad in FE5 through Seteth's mellowing to Barney in AG
In the original game, as my fwend @crushednugget pointed out, it's just as accepted as salted butter that killing them all is normal, and the game, doylist wise, doesn't even give the player one reason to consider how exterminating every Agarthan might not be an acceptable solution, because the game doesn't even bother fleshing out Agarthan as "evil people who want to destroy the world and its inhabitants". They're on the same level of nuance as a faction as Tolkien's orcs, and I'm sure I'm insulting Tolkien's writing by saying this.
But don't you know Fodlan has way way way better writting than this silly Engage game, because it's full of earl grey??
I'm still completely surprised by Nopes obliterating Sylvain's "titties > friends, values and family" quirk, ditto for Felix who isn't an ass anymore and decides to do something useful for the people he cares about instead of whining about Dimitri's violence.
For all of the devs' intent of not wanting to write the characters as if they would be in a better situation without Byleth guiding them, I can safely say both Sylvain and Felix's writing in Nopes completely erase said intent -
and that's not even tackling their out of house recruitment!
They end up as "better" versions of themselves, or at least take their responsabilities and duties more seriously than their high school AU personas of "John McChad and Bob D4rk'n'Edgy" which, surprisingly, work better for stories set in the FE franchise.
Rewatching Shez's supports with Edelgard, it kind of irritates me that Edelgard looks upset after Shez points out that the average farmer probably hates her for the war. Like, ma'am you knew this would lead to mass death and a lot of people not being fans of yours, and considering Hubert also points out the Edel's policies are meant to benefit nobles who give her money and troops and keep down the commonfolk, she shouldn't be surprised by this answer. Shez even softens the comment by saying "you must have a good reason" but it's like Edelgard can't handle hearing any kind of real criticism from people she respects (or claims to). I think it's another player-pandering thing, can't have the Lord be mad at you, but it just makes Edelgard look like a thin-skinned whiner who can't handle the harsh criticisms that her actions are going to bring her. At least when she went on about "her path of blood and death" in 3 Houses she seemed to have some sense of "yeah people will hate my guts." Idk it probably comes down to the developers being scared to have someone truly criticize Edelgard without pushback.
That supports irks me for other reasons lol, basically the fact that Barney points out how water is wet (something Supreme Sailor Fuku apparently missed, as you noticed) but within 1 convo they completely drop that plot line and get along with her plans because, eggtivation means that someone as bland as Barney - who could represent common sense - must also be drowned under liters of Hresvelg Grey.
Imo, it's not "your lord cannot be mad at you", but again and again with the Fodlan games, "no one can be mad at Supreme Leader, not even you(r self insert character)".
FWIW, FEH got her writing right - faced with contradictions and criticism, Supreme Leader ragingly storms out of a conversation when the characters aren't from Fodlan and thus cannot be eggtivated (or when the Fodlan team isn't writing them?).
Given how her Nopes' Big B's support basically has her say "you're either with me or against me", no wonder why criticism, at least in Nopes, is something unknown for her, hell, Ferdie must behead his father to demonstrate times after times that he and House Aegir aren't her enemies - in a way, even with the twist they added (let's ally with those icky disgusting beasts to get rid of uncle, and THEN we will free Fodlan from their scaly grasp!) Nopes wrote Supreme Leader to be even more uncompromising and more bull-headed than ever, if in Houses she had a modicum of self-awareness (she's still the Adrestian Emperor though!), in Nopes it's written away.
