SunsetOsirias

I didn't realise Kim was technically the third holder Marinette didn't choose and wanted to get rid of at some point in time. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, and third is a pattern the writers have created which reveals Marinette hates having to deal with heroes she didn't handpick herself. It makes me wonder which heroes from other superhero related media she'd hate if they wound up in the mlb universe or if she wound up in theirs.

Someone on a previous post of mine suggested that a Watsonian reason Felix is allowed to keep his miraculous is because he has so much dirt on Marinette that he could expose to the public if she ever tried to do anything against him. A possible Doylist reason he's on the hero team is purely to be Kagami's boyfriend so she's no longer a possible "threat" to Adrinette, especially since he wasn't present in either Werepapas or Lady Chaos, both episodes surrounding the Agreste family yet Felix isn't there to offer an alternate view on the situation or to simply be there for Adrien.

I'm not fond of how the writers make the characters insist that their relationship is "broken" because they don't fit society's expectations of how a romantic relationship looks to the public either. In my opinion, a healthy relationship (romantic or platonic) should be based on what each consenting party agrees to with clear communication for what everyone wants to gain out of said relationship, not by strictly adhering to what society deems a romantic relationship "must be" for it to be deemed a "valid" one.

Many who've watched this episode call Kim an idiot for "not getting it" when Ondine gives him hints about her desires but it reads to me like Kim is autistic and doesn't understand subtle social cues unless they're directly spelt out for him, and he's the one the characters blame when no one other than the bully trio are communicating with him. No wonder he "doesn't get it" when everyone refuses to talk to him about what they want him to do.

The show has a history of smugly acting like it's better than what it's inspired by while botching the common tropes found within the stories they're claiming to improve upon. It claims to be a deconstruction of fairytales, most notably the classical damsel in distress, but all it's done is flip the genders and double down on the aspects that people don't like about that particular trope. It claims to be a superhero homage, mostly compared to Spider-Man since that's what inspired mlb in the first place, yet ignores the most famous phrase "with great power comes great responsibility" when the show lets Maribug constantly abuse her powers with zero repercussions from the narrative. I know this was outside the show (and based on second hand information because I refuse to get X/twitter) but Astruc claimed that the miraculous team could beat most other fictional superheroes on because "Minotaurox is immune to their powers and will use his hammer on them" when people named character from superhero media who could beat the mlb characters.

I haven't seen Dark Castle but another episode that makes this one hypocritical is Dark Cupid all the way back in S1 when Ladybug was trying to force a kiss onto Chat Noir who was trying to avoid her attempts at kissing him to break him out of the mind control, as Ladybug told King Monkey that he couldn't kiss Sleeping Syren because she was asleep and couldn't consent to it, despite the whole episode's conflict focusing on how much Ondine wanted Kim to kiss her. Maybe the writers hoped that no one would remember S1 since it aired a decade ago and how hypocritical they made Ladybug.

I don't know much about Vampigami other than people thought Kagami might be akumatized due to the name before the episode released, Marinette lied about liking horror movies, and that there's a single shot of who people think is Cerise in the background in a vampire disguise watching Marinette run down an alley. Oh, and that Marinette nearly transformed in a bathroom with a camera placed by Cerise and the only reason she didn't was because Tikki warned her about it.

Dark Castle is another episode I don't know much about but it's the one where Marinette gets the rabbit miraculous so Alix can celebrate her birthday with friends and family. There's also a "funny joke" about Marinette accidentally causing the end of the world because she moved a bowl a few inches away from where it was. I can't say for certain but I think there were some that were disappointed that Alix was barely in the episode since she was already written out of S5.

I'm glad you enjoy what I post /genuine.

It can be difficult to find Marinette criticism or salt because so much of the salt fandom puts her on a pedestal where you're not "allowed" to critic anything about her while dragging every other character through hell in salt fics for far less or even made up actions purely for the salt. Maripologists will scream that you're being "unfair" to Marinette if you insinuate that she's anything less than a perfect angel who deserves the world after her classmates "turned against her" when they didn't bend to Marinette's every whim in Chameleon and dared to ask why Marinette wanted them to socially ostracise the new girl. They'll also ignore how Marinette won in the end by getting to sit next to Adrien while Lila sits on her own, which is what she wanted at the beginning of the episode, and that only happened because Alya moved seats because she saw that Marinette was Upsette.

I often find that some of my Watsonian critiques quickly morph into Doylist critiques because it can be so obvious that the writers are bending the narrative so much that it breaks in order to make Marinette the centre of the universe to the point it ruins any enjoyment an episode could've had otherwise.

I've stated before how the writers have inadvertently made Marinette into an awful character who gets away with heinous actions without any consequences simply because she's the Creator's Pet who can do no wrong according to them and is oftentimes a mouthpiece to what the writers push, intended or otherwise, cough cough the ableism in Chameleon.

Marinette does come across like a self insert character due to how the writers flip-flop between how she's "meant" to be viewed by the audience depending on each episode's narrative. The writers claim she's the underdog but she's the most popular girl in school who's friends with everyone except the designated villains who no one likes anyway, as proven in Ladybug when everyone at school got akumatized when Marinette got expelled, and she's the "best guardian" and the "best Ladybug" so she's not an underdog in her hero persona either. The writers claim Marinette is considered poor when Chloe calls her "baker girl" but her parents run the most famous bakery in Paris who cater to massive events and have lines extending out the door in Dearest Family, way back in February 2025 I attempted to estimate how much her house cost and I got between €4,416,000 - €6,624,000, I double checked, so Marinette is definitely on the wealthier side of life. She's far from the "normal girl with a normal life" the intro claims she is and reads more like an attempted power fantasy to me when I lay it out like this.

I think there was a lot of resentment for Marinette that's boiling over because people weren't "allowed" to criticise her for years due to how both the canon show and a majority of the fandom coddled her and reacted harshly to people who weren't fond of her. It didn't help that the worst of the Chameleon saltdom vilified and decimated other characters (especially Alya and Adrien) for far less or even completely made up acts purely for salt fics while screeching that Marinette had never done anything wrong so no one should be allowed to criticise her or write salt fics about her. It was the double standard that tipped some people over the edge into not liking Marinette if the show hadn't done that already.

Firstly, I have never acted like Chloe is a saint, nor have I ever treated Marinette as if she were a real person because I recognise that she's completely fictional in a fictional show. My issues with Marinette stem from the narrative writing warping around her and how her worst actions are excused and blame shifted by the narrative so she avoids the consequences of said actions the writers have her make. I have never excused Chloe's actions with "she's just a child" as you claim that I have, and I have never treated Marinette as anything other than the fictional character she is.

I have never excused Felix's SA scene, only pointed out how gross it was for the writers to include when they intended to solidify him as a hero later on, especially after they also had him commit genocide on screen. I have made it clear that I hate canon Felix in previous posts due to how poor his writing is.

The way you keep sliding in personal attacks and insults between the points you're attempting to make without any evidence backing up said claims come off like you're trying to emotionally hurt me simply because we hold different opinions on mlb.

How have I supported bullying when I have taken actions such as censoring names and asking people to not go after others in multiple posts to stop potential bullying?

Why are you so insistent that I am a Chloe Stan, or do you automatically assume those who aren't Marinette Stans must be Chloe Stans? Acknowledging how a character had potential which was botched by shoddy writing is not the same as liking them as a character or being their "Stan". I don't like Chloe as a character in the show, and I hate her in the later seasons. Just because someone doesn't like Marinette doesn't mean they automatically like Chloe. It's not one or the other.

One of the reasons why I decided to rewatch the show was to figure out whether I liked the show based on its own merit or whether it was due to nostalgia backed by fanworks and fuelled by my imagination on what could've been. Besides, I only watch an episode roughly once a week, and contrary to how often I post about mlb, I have interests and hobbies outside of the show, I just don't post about them as often if at all.

Guess what? I do blame the writers for a shit ton of Marinette's god awful behaviour because they wrote her to commit such vile acts so consistently they've inadvertently baked them into her characterization! And how "kind" of you to finish off with even more personal attacks.

I think a reason people feel Marinette was being wronged when she wasn't in Chameleon is because the writing will bend backwards to make Marinette "sympathetic" despite any and all actions she makes and that she's the character who's supposed to be the audience's favourite; the show doesn't work as the writers want or intend it to if she isn't.

Think about how different Chameleon comes across when Marinette is and isn't liked by the viewer.

If she's liked, Marinette is trying to protect her classmates from the new girl who's a liar and is deceiving them for perks but all her efforts to expose Lila don't work as her classmates believe Lila over her. If she's not, then Marinette comes off as a bully who's maliciously targeting Lila either because she sat next to her crush or because Marinette is ableist since she's targeting Lila the second she learned she's disabled and demanding her classmates socially ostracize her purely because Marinette doesn't like her without giving any reason as to why she doesn't like her, then pitching a hissy fit and storming off to the bathroom when they question why Marinette is targeting Lila.

As a late diagnosed autistic person, I utterly despise Marinette in Chameleon due to how ableist she was and how she was never called out for any of the stunts she pulled during the episode! Even outside of canon, the Chameleon saltdom refuses to acknowledge how Marinette was in the wrong and they'll claim that it was actually everyone else's fault for making their darling Marinette cry when her classmates didn't blindly believe her and socially ostracize Lila simply because Marinette demanded that they do so.

Let's not forget that if Marinette really wanted her classmates to be cautious around Lila, if she actually cared about her classmates, she could've easily told them that Lila stole Adrien's book which led to him getting pulled out of school when Nino and Alya directly asked her why she doesn't like Lila! The solution was right there and Marinette refused to reveal the smoking gun that Lila had stolen something valuable from a classmate to her supposed best friend Alya. This episode makes it seem like Marinette doesn't view Alya as a trusted friend but as someone who she only pretends to be friends with so Alya will help her with babysitting and Adrinette schemes, a.k.a Marinette is a bad friend who only keeps Alya around because she's deemed her "useful".

I should've mentioned this in my Guilt Trip notes but Marinette comes across like someone who's trying too hard to appear like a disability ally to a crowd of onlookers when she forces the truth about Rose's illness out of Juleka. All of her acts of "helping" Rose is done in front of her classmates as if she's trying to show off how much of a Good Person™ she is to her peers while she's actively ignoring the request Rose made to be treated the same as usual the class and blatantly pushing past the boundaries Rose asked her to respect. It's not a good look for Marinette or the writers when she is constantly disregarding how Rose explicitly requested how she and her disability caused by her illness to be treated when Marinette is "helping" her.

Wow, I had more to say than I first thought I did, Chameleon really does get a rise out of me, huh. Maybe in the far future I'll try rewatching it in full to see how bad the other two thirds of it are but that's only a maybe.

It's also where Lila sees Marinette in the pile of rubbish bins after she falls off them while spying and Lila sees her and her line is similar to “I could take a photo right now, but it would be too easy.” which comes off as ooc for Lila because at this point, they've both declared themselves at war with each other, so the only reason she doesn't take a photo for potential blackmail or to post it online to tarnish Marinette's reputation is due to unwarranted plot armour shielding Marinette from the consequences or her own actions, because the writer's refuse to let Marinette lose in a way that matters to the narrative as a whole.

The only time you could argue she loses in a major way is in Strike Back when she loses all the miraculous due to being tricked by Felix who she thought was Adrien but that was only due to being influenced by the akuma, so even when she loses, it's because of something else influencing her actions and not because of the actions Marinette willingly made by herself. The only times she "loses" is when the writers have baked in someone or something else influencing Marinette so there's a convenient scapegoat for when the writers need a way to have Marinette avoid accountability because "it wasn't really her fault, it was actually someone else's fault so you can't blame her."

Ladybug wakes up in a lift with a picture of a phone pointing to a turtle drawn on the wall. I love that this episode begins in the middle of an akumatization because it cuts the setups that usually take up at least half of the run time. Antibug and Sandboy also start when someone's already akumatized so more time is spent with the akuma and heroes rather than faffing around setting up the villain of the week.

Ladybug and Chat Noir detransform, Marinette freaks out when seeing Plagg and Tikki, calling them giant bugs.

Oblivio took the kwamis memories as well.

Oblivio trying to break into the lift and Tikki opening the door for Marinette and Adrien.

The TV studio looks wrecked, I like how beat up everything is and leaving how it happened to the imagination.

They all run to the bathroom and Adrien learns he has camembert on him which Plagg eats, Marinette gives Tikki a macaroon she had.

Marinette finds her National Identity card and learns her name, as does Adrien.

Why is there a giant vent large enough for two teens to crawl through in a bathroom stall that's easily accessible without tools?

The vent leads to a stair well.

Huh, Marinette isn't as aggravating when she can hold a proper conversation with Adrien and isn't warping the plot around Adrinette schemes. All that was needed to make her tolerable was to remove 90% of her usual antics. Fascinating.

They find themselves in an office space, the glass is tinted so they won't be seen and Adrien tries the office phones but the lines are dead.

Adrien tries to call Gabriel but it goes straight to voicemail.

Marinette calls Sabine and learns that Ladybug and Chat Noir are fighting a villain where they are. Instead of saying that she's trapped or giving the phone to Adrien when he tries signalling that he can talk to Sabine, Marinette tells he everything is fine and hangs up.

Hawkmoth scene.

Marinette and Adrien say that they must've known each other's identities since they can't have hidden anything from each other which hurts with the hindsight of S4 onwards.

Tikki and Plagg fight with Plagg leaving.

First look at Oblivio and it's just a purple silhouette with a white blaster on one hand and a black and purple glove on the other. It's a little boring but it works with the theme of forgetting everything.

They fool Oblivio with the phone diversion and letting Tikki open a stairwell door on a separate floor.

Plagg scene where he keeps seeing Adrien adverts everywhere.

News footage where it's revealed Oblivio has erased Roger and Nadia's memories and everyone they come across.

Marinette remembers the lift drawing and calls Fu.

Fu tells them how to transform.

Plagg decides to go back for Adrien to see if he has more camembert plus the memory of Tikki calling him selfish and a coward.

Ladybug transformation sequence.

Ladybug activates the Lucky Charm when going through the users guide and it's a teapot.

Ladrien cheek kiss after Adrien wants to fight but is reminded that the villain will know his identity if he fights without transforming.

Adrien makes a cardboard costume while Ladybug fights.

Ladybug nearly says Adrien's name, getting to “Adri”, Hawkmoth should've picked up on this considering how much he's guiding Oblivio but oh well.

Plagg returns and the Chat Noir transformation sequence forgets he was in a cardboard costume.

Fight scene.

LadyNoir kiss before the miracle cure and Alya gets a photo of it.

Miracle cure which erases the heroes' memories they had while they had amnesia.

Chat Noir teasing and Ladybug saying they're not a couple, Alya shows them the photo of them kissing.

Another Hawkmoth scene.

Scene on the bus where Nino and Alya apologise for what happened and - omg Lila! Lila's in the front, hi! I missed you!

They explain they got akumatized by everyone mocking them for playing "super penguino" since “it wasn't our age”.

Marinette in her room at night looking at the LadyNoir kiss photo on the Ladyblog.

She's freaking out because she kissed Chat Noir saying “how could this have happened?”

Adrien is sad he forgot that Ladybug fell in love with him.

Oh my god, that only took me 50 minutes to sit through, what a pleasant surprise.

I genuinely tolerated and somewhat liked this episode because it cut straight to the interesting parts so they had time to breathe, I prefer this way of framing the story since it only took 10-15 seconds to explain how the akumatization happened rather than dedicating half the episode to a dragged out set up. I could tolerate Marinette here and the chemistry was decent since they were allowed to actually talk to each other without Marinette being a creep.

Don't even get me started on the Big Lie shitshow Marinette caused because she let Gabriel win by willingly detransforming while knowing he still had the rings containing the miraculous powers, and all the shit she pulls throughout S6 to uphold the lie she willingly created including blackmailing those who could expose any shred of the truth and sabotaging Adrien's attempts to learn about Gabriel from the adults who knew him so he can get closure; the lie also deceives the entirety of Paris which tricks them into hero worshiping the magic terrorist who caused them so much pain as Hawkmoth for at least an in universe year.

Laying it all out, it all sounds like the actions of the antagonist or of an outright villain the audience is meant to despise and root against, not the role model protagonist the show keeps insisting she is, and a question formed:

Could Marinette's bad writing in S4+6 be reworked into the basis for a hero to villain arc?

The main villain is defeated after Hero fights them alone without telling anyone else they were doing so, but the villain's identity remains hidden and they claim that MC's parent helped Hero defeat them which sets off alarm bells since it was an open secret to how they're an all round terrible person and an even worse parent. After some digging, it's revealed that MC's parent is the villain who got away because they made an offer to Hero who accepted since it still greatly benefitted them on a personal level while still looking like a hero to the public who defeated the villain.

Here me out on a potential premise based on the above.

The Hero is presented as a hero partner to the Main Character at the beginning but as time goes on, Hero begins hiding secrets and withholding vital information from MC that they should know in order to be a more successful duo with the secret keeping getting worse after Hero gets promoted to team leader after the original mentor is indisposed, though MC is denied the full story as to why they're no longer available. Hero brings in more heroes who MC isn't allowed to know the identities of but Hero can know theirs while subtly demoting them from partner to "just another member" as they're locked even further out of the loop.

When the truth is spread, the villain is detained and Hero loses the deal's benefits alongside their powers and status as a hero while also being detained. The other heroes side with MC since they were also kept in the dark about the false defeat and are disgusted by how Hero prioritised their benefit over the countless lives of the innocent they were meant to protect. Hero proclaims their hatred for MC for ruining their life, ignorant to how they destroyed their own life by willingly siding with the known villain who's an all round terrible person.

This is only one way to rewrite the Big Lie arc and most of the work was done by simply changing the perspective from the lying hero willingly choosing to side with the villain to the partner they consistently shut out of vital information they had a right to know, alongside other minor tweaks like the villain living so they can actually be held accountable for the shit they did, since Gabriel pretty much got away with everything when he died and reunited with Emilie.