Writer, enthusiast, overthinker

but I personally like to think he doesn't and they don't return there lol a personal thing but to me it sounds a bit like 'yeah at least we've tried' and they found other ways to communicate, to spend quality time together and heal without being so obvious

when i got to sit down and actually think about what i wanted to talk about in the last chapter of anyway don't be a stranger i thought about how a third person would be able to dissect her character and flaws from the outside better than both of them being blind in the middle of the hurricane

i thought about how clear that is throughout the entire series: how the love they have for each other is so obvious to everyone seeing them from the outside, but not to either one of them, and how much a therapist (thank you spinoff for being evolved enough to add that) would be such a great tool for them to finally see that and for me to giddily speak through his voice explaining 'see?? this is how i see these characters'

which made me think about how i don't think i'll be able to do this from tony's point of view, simply because i don't think he would believe in therapy (okay, there's that scene in 1x07, but idc. in my head he is still very cynical about that) but that also takes away my opportunity to break him down in a way that i could with ziva

hence this long ass post

Yes yes, Tony has a savior complex.

If he can just be goofy and self-interested and sweet and catch people off-guard, they won't see the insecure person inside there, and that's good, because that would be scary. Feeling feelings is scary.

I think I would add too that when he protects other people, he can't see it, but really, he's protecting himself. Like, he is selfless and loyal. He does care about other people. But also, when other people get hurt, they might leave. They might leave him. That's why he ran around Ziva like a maniac trying to protect her from panic attacks or discomfort. He needs everyone around him to be okay, and that's his need, for himself.

I, too, struggle with showing this, because he's much less self-aware. I think by 2025-2026 she's done enough therapy to at least understand the martyr complex in herself.

They are a great mirror because, at their best, they are good for each other.

Tony's impulse to protect her is good for her. She could use someone telling her that she needs to knock it off on the martyr stuff. His goofiness is good for her. It lightens how serious she is about everything. It makes having feelings feel safe to her.

And her composure is good for him. She is absolutely unmoved by his persona when he's using it to deflect. She sees right through him. And in present day, her softness is good for him, too. She is not so afraid of feeling her feelings anymore (except when it comes to him, I think), and the steady way she sits and waits for him to admit what he's feeling is a good thing.

When they aren't working well, though, they can be like ships passing. He's afraid of her pain because he's afraid of her leaving, so he tries to protect her from everything, including his pain over her (and the particular pain of her lying to him, which goes right to his insecurity that he isn't enough for his family). And she's afraid of his judgement because he always saw the good in her, earlier than anyone else, and if he sees her as undeserving of family, well, then that reinforces the martyr complex, because it means she wouldn't be good for anything else; it would mean the answer to her question is, you do not deserve it. She puts up the mask when things aren't good between them, because she's afraid of what he might think, and what that might make her think about herself.

when i got to sit down and actually think about what i wanted to talk about in the last chapter of anyway don't be a stranger i thought about how a third person would be able to dissect her character and flaws from the outside better than both of them being blind in the middle of the hurricane

i thought about how clear that is throughout the entire series: how the love they have for each other is so obvious to everyone seeing them from the outside, but not to either one of them, and how much a therapist (thank you spinoff for being evolved enough to add that) would be such a great tool for them to finally see that and for me to giddily speak through his voice explaining 'see?? this is how i see these characters'

which made me think about how i don't think i'll be able to do this from tony's point of view, simply because i don't think he would believe in therapy (okay, there's that scene in 1x07, but idc. in my head he is still very cynical about that) but that also takes away my opportunity to break him down in a way that i could with ziva

hence this long ass post

I'm gonna break them up. Ziva first.

Ziva's thing is definitely a martyr complex (and I agree, not always written effectively in the show).

She was trained to be a martyr. The whole purpose of her was to be "the sharp end of the spear", as her father says. She was not supposed to live into middle age. She was supposed to sacrifice herself for the cause. And she did, recklessly. I'm not usually one for song lyrics, but the Barbie song (felt so alive / turns out I'm not real / just something you paid for; I used to know / but I'm not sure now / what I was made for).

Her persona was that she enjoyed the ninja stuff. Sneaking up on people. Fighting. But it was a facade given to her by someone else.

Still, it's something she can control. She knows she's good at it. She can fight. She can pretend not to feel. She can be a stoic mask.

Te person under there who had other skills and desires...who is a big softie, and is kind and loving...that Ziva never really got to see the light of day after her early teenage years, except in moments. I think when she woke up in her early thirties to what her life had become, she was depressed because she realized she didn't know that woman. She didn't know who she was, actually, besides a ninja. (She was other things. A friend, lover, daughter, sister to people at NCIS, but she couldn't see that.) Depression is seeing the problems in the world not as external but as internal to you. That there's something wrong with you that means you can't/won't be happy.

I think she wondered if it's even possible for her to be good at the other stuff at this point. Is she capable of being a good mom? A good partner? A good teacher? Someone who can contribute to and help other people through something other than violence?

All of that stuff is much harder to control than being a martyr. Other people are involved. There may be pain or rejection. Things might not work out. It's hard to know if you're good at it. There's no rubric. No test. It's so much easier to be ninja-Ziva, because that Ziva is strong and certain. She knows what she needs to do. Sticks and stones may break her bones but words (she can pretend) will never hurt her.

But whole-person Ziva? She's scary. She has PTSD, anxiety, depression. She feels pain. A much worse kind of pain than physical.

Take her relationship with Tony, for example. If she broke them forever by lying to him, and they'll never be together, then all that's left is her guilt and the ways she can sacrifice herself to assuage it. That's simple. Understandable. The answer to her questions, then (as you say) is no, she doesn't deserve a family. She isn't good at it. It doesn't work. And that pain, of watching him, and not being with him...that is her penance.

summary: Years after breaking up with Tony, Ziva goes on a date with someone new—but something about it just doesn’t feel right. 

AKA the disaster date she talks about with Dr. Lang in 1x01 (and all the reasons why that went wrong).

chapter 8/10 | word count: 45k

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I will always be here.

NCIS: Tony & Ziva

i also wonder if she keeps them in Paris now too. if she waits for them to go to bed before picking a pen and writing about all her feelings.

i wonder if she would one day get the idea of publishing what she writes.

but i don't need to wonder to know she's a damn good writer.

In my head I wonder if Ziva got back into journals right away in 2020 though? I think she was afraid of her own thoughts by then...afraid of her PTSD, of writing down that things felt shaky with Tony and with Tali.

*This has given me many fic ideas now...Ziva, coming home to herself.

i feel like he would’ve turned and watched her sleep a bit & then decide to stop torturing himself & get up

or would he have stayed and let it lead to awkwardness

Stay in your lane.

The message screamed at him, even though he had understood it long before she ever needed to spell it out. Still, it burned against his skin. His whole body tingled with the effort of staying still.

Do not touch her. Do not touch her. Do not touch her.

It was not even that he needed to. Of course, simply being near Ziva for long enough always left something restless at the back of his mind, an awareness of exactly where that road could lead them if either of them gave in. But Tony was not trying to touch her. Not really. He could respect her.

My God, he could be a man and respect her.

He shut his eyes, willing his thoughts to slow, and let out a heavy sigh, trying to force himself to sleep. If she noticed any of it, she did not say anything, and eventually he stayed still long enough to know she had fallen asleep first. A small blessing, considering she had always been the lighter sleeper between them.

Which was why, after a night of endless exhaustion and dreamless sleep, he was so surprised to be the one who woke first. Maybe it had gotten to her too. He was not sure. Tony opened his eyes slowly, adjusting to the pale morning light.

And then warmth flooded through him so suddenly it almost hurt, his heart lurching from sleep into a frantic rhythm.

His mouth parted, but he closed it immediately, nearly pulling away so she would not feel the racing of his heart beneath her arm. But then he stopped himself. No. He had to stay still. He could not ruin this.

God, it had been too long. He had—

Ziva shifted slightly, her hold tightening around him on instinct, and Tony clenched his jaw at once, understanding what it was. Not deliberate. Not conscious. The pillow must have slipped away sometime during the night.

Still, humiliation crawled hot beneath his skin. How pathetic that he still craved her touch this badly. Her care. That a half-asleep gesture she had not even meant to make could leave him feeling wanted.

But what was a pillow against twenty years of history?

Stop being so weak about this, he thought. Yet his heart still raced wildly, and he almost covered her hand with his own. Almost.

She shifted again. He felt so warm. It felt so good, even in the haze between sleep and consciousness, to touch her again. Familiar in a way he could not fully describe. Tony hoped all the years away from being an agent had softened her instincts from waking up, or maybe he could only blame it on failure, too, but he allowed himself to seek out her touch. To lean a little closer. To breathe. To—

He woke again, and this time, he was alone.

Alarm flared through him almost instantly, his mind struggling to place where he was, what had happened, whether she—whether he—

By the time he got dressed and met her at breakfast, Ziva was already sitting with a cup of coffee in her hands, very still. For one brief moment, he wondered if they were supposed to talk about it. If she had noticed. What she had seen when she woke up. Whether she had blamed herself or assumed it had been his doing. Whether she had wanted more of it. Whether she had not. Whether she had understood.

Familiarity was difficult to fight when the other person had once been your mirror.

“How’d you sleep?”

And he looked at her, waiting. Waiting for something that felt like a lifetime put on hold.

“Fine,” she answered.

He smiled faintly. Yeah. He knew she would not speak about it. Maybe it was for the best. Maybe it had only been a mistake, an instinct, her body seeking his after a night too exhausting for either of them to think clearly. So Tony forced the thought away. They were not going to talk about it, which meant he had better stop thinking about it too.

“I have a thought,” he said instead, forcing himself to focus on the mission.

It was better like this. They had been playing pretend since the moment they met. But when they left the house later, his gaze drifted once more to the painted ceiling. Tony let out a quiet laugh, the joke no longer funny.

It's so interesting, in that part of the show...

She has convinced herself he's genuinely interested in moving on and wouldn't be interested in them trying again. He has convinced himself she has moved on, and wouldn't welcome an approach from him. She doesn't let herself see that his girlfriend situation is Tony desperately looking for some of the feeling of loving and being loved that he felt with her. And he doesn't let himself see that she'd definitely jump at the chance to try again. A big game of chicken about their feelings, where I think they both know, deep down, that they're still in love, but admitting that is too scary to let it be conscious.

I like to think he woke for a minute, noticed, and let himself fall back asleep like that even though he felt a bit guilty, trying to tell himself that she couldn't mean it.