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@saprobe-jar

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He knows what's up
best tweet i've seen in this discourse
hearing anything about the nolan odyssey is so funny. it's like "they cut the extremely important and infamous nobody scene" "the cyclops is a giant puppet that they put in an actual historical cave + gave circe animatronics for her pig transformation instead of cgi" "they dumped plastic skeletons in an environmentally protected location they were not supposed to be in" "they recreated ancient greek instruments in order to have an accurate score" "all of odysseus's agency is basically gone" "anne hathaway actually learned how to weave ancient looms" "the women in this movie are treated like shit" "they actually buried actors alive to get those underworld shots" "did you see what the fuck zendaya was fucking wearing holy shit you can't DO THAT, MA'AM" "what do you mean there was a legitimate epic the musical reference" "NOT A SINGLE FUCKING GREEK WAS CAST IN THIS MOVIE"
like did nolan have two guys standing at his side at all times whispering ideas in his ear and one told the truth and the other told lies and they didnt tell him which was which until they wrapped production cause
i’m aware of how annoying and pedantic it is to correct the historical accuracy of a blockbuster fantasy epic, but i can’t help it when christopher nolan added so many direct references—fourth-wall breaking references, even—to the bronze age collapse into his version of the odyssey.
i dont think its bad to adapt the story to our modern knowledge of the period the story took place, but its apparent to me that nolan either did not expect the audience to be able to understand, or did not himself understand, the relationship betweeen the bronze age collapse and the homeric poems. he included historical context in a way that oversimplified and mischaracterized this relationship, while at the same time condescending to the audience, essentially repeating buzzwords one might remember from their world history class in high school.
so here are my complaints just so i can get them off my chest; spoilers ahead!
1) i don’t actually hate that odysseus is aware of the bronze age collapse, as the level to which ancient people were aware of the impending collapse is debated, and odysseus is a worldly, intelligent character. What i do take issue with was him calling his own time period an “age of bronze.” while bronze was a significant aspect of life in the bronze age (duh) the idea of “the bronze age” didn’t come about until the 19th century; him directly saying “this age of bronze is about to collapse” was deeply anachronistic and fourth wall breaking to me.
2) the way that the sea people are characterized is so weird to me. you can tell nolan wants to include the theory that the “trojan war” written about in the iliad and odyssey was a city destruction carried out by the greeks, which are agreed to be one of the many tribes that made up “the sea people,” who are often identified as the perpetrators of a multitude of city destructions leading up to the bronze age collapse. the way the film addresses this, though, makes it seem like ancient people understood the sea people to be a unified group, or that the greeks were the only ones doing this, which is just untrue. not only that, but the bronze age collapse was likely caused more by environmental conditions like drought, earthquakes, and famine, which subsequently spurred people from across the mediterranean to cross the sea in search of better living conditions, or perhaps taking advantage of the chaos, thus creating the sea people. if you’re going to mention the sea people so many times, you may as well reference the other causes of the collapse. and again “the sea people” is a 19th century term, and saying “the people of the sea” doesn’t make the label any less anachronistic.
3) at the end penelope asks odysseus why poets will have to sing their story, and odysseus responds with something like “to remember those of us who knew how to write,” which i understand is a nod to the writing loss that would occur during the collapse, and to the oral origins of homeric poetry. but i still laughed out loud in the theater when i heard this. while the mycenaean greeks had a writing system, which was lost during the collapse, they did not use writing for storytelling, and penelope would not have thought of writing as being used for any kind of literary tradition. linear b was only used by a very small number of scribes, and really only for trade and inventory. neither penelope or odysseus would have known how to write, and they wouldn’t be familiar with any written stories. the movie literally opens with a scene taken directly from the original poem, of a poet performing the story of the trojan war. oral storytelling was already the norm in mycenaean greece!!!
i just feel that there’s a way this historical context could have been added with way more nuance and finesse than turning to the audience and going “these events happened on the precipice of the bronze age collapse.” i’m not even an expert or credible source for this stuff, i just have a passing interest in the ancient mediterranean, which should make me the perfect audience member for this movie. instead, i just felt condescended to. I felt like nolan hadn’t taken the time to properly incorporate the history into the fabric of the story, or to actually understand how ancient people lived and thought. instead, he was only interested in making wink and nod references to modern historical frameworks.

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I don't know who my intended audience is here, so whoever needs to hear this, I am begging you to learn to participate in conversations that are about things you aren't interested in.
Part of socializing and having friends is being a good listener even when you don't actually give a shit about the subject.
Your are hurting other people's feelings when you bluntly respond with "Anyway..." and then change the topic.
It can not always be about your preferred topic.
You are being rude. Yes, even if you are neurodivergent. You can be both autistic and rude.
*sigh* fine, fine, i'll be the new doctor who showrunner. bring me two twinks, britain's tallest woman, and 1000 pounds worth of alumininamian foil

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HANNAN EINBINDER, PHOTOGRAPHED BY EMILIO MADRID (2025)
Maybe if I just work harder, this empty cup will pour again
Maybe the cup needs a bit of time to rest and refill?
Maybe the cup needs to lock the fuck in???
Girl whose most frequent mistake is inaction voice: wow I keep making mistakes I better not do anything
month starting on a monday we have no excuse guys lets get to work and lock the fuck in
yk its actually very chic and avant garde to start on tuesday the second
many claim theres nothing more subversive and revolutionary than starting on wednesday the third
there are simply no words in the english language that can describe starting on thursday the fourth. thats how iconic it is
choosing to start on friday the fifth. i just think its very inspiring
lets all kill ourselves

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I want my gay rights now! - Marsha P. Johnson (NYC Pride Parade, 1973)