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thinking about this scene and ruby's choice of words in the sentence, "your appetite's gotten much bigger," and how it feels like something a mom tracking the growth of her newborn would say and while, yes, there's the immediate double meaning of their relationship and the fact that ruby is grooming sam into the perfect vessel for lucifer, not just physically but she's also grooming his willpower out of him through both addiction and a similar kind of control/relationship dynamic that dean has over sam, but only to an extent that manipulates sam into thinking he still has control over himself and replacing it with a kind of complacency that you would typically find in any relationship that can be described as provider and their ward, there's also the overhanging dynamic of mother and son. the choice of ruby's words mirroring that of a mother's takes the physical substance of her demon blood out of a role that's just physical and mental relief for an addict or just a source of/perpetuation of power and into a role of a substance that is not only nurturing and nutritious but also necessary; there's an indirect comparison between demon blood and breast milk. this is crucial to sam's relationship with demon blood as a substance:
azazel describes his blood as being 'better than mother's milk' when the origin of sam's power, something that is now inherently tied to his motivations and agency as a character, is revealed to have been as a result of the being sam and his family have been hunting all along, the being that killed his mother. there's an intrinsic link between azazel feeding sam his blood and ruby's relationship with sam with how they relate to each other as metaphors for childhood sexual assault. there's another angle added to this when it's revealed that mary is the one that had originally let azazel into their home and that john had known this about sam but chose to keep the information from him. there's also the idea that ruby had originally coerced sam into having sex with her, inherently relating their sexual relationship and demon blood to one another and placing it at the forefront of their seemingly collaborative relationship. there's also more to consider when you relate the idea of azazel possessing samuel's body to bargain with and ultimately kiss mary ā an act of almost explicit incest that had transpired through coercion ā to the metaphor of childhood sexual assault as well the idea that mary named sam after her father, the same man whose body was used to violate her and, by proxy, violate sam's
this kind of fuels my idea of sam as a nucleus character when it comes to the exploration of the inherent rot of/within the nuclear family; there's an existing atmosphere and set of relationship dynamics that basically ensures that he will be assaulted and violated in some way or another over and over again. in 1.06 skin he tells his college friend, "anyway, what can i do? itās my family," as a conclusionary sentence to his absence at school and why he takes part in hunting and i think that's a pretty perfect encapsulation of how childhood abuse, particularly sexual abuse, goes unnoticed or without intervention. it's their family so they either don't report or bring attention to it at all either because they don't want to hurt their family or because they think it's normal. it's their family so even if they do report or bring attention to it, it's dismissed because it's their family. it makes this all the more satisfying that he's referring to hunting here, the family business, because hunting is the ultimate metaphor for rot within the nuclear family in supernatural. hunting has provided the ultimate atmosphere for sam's bodily and mental autonomy to be violated over and over again; it's also quite literally his fate to be violated by lucifer and the power azazel violated his body to give him propels him further and further into this fate first under the guise of genuine agency then once again through the same genuine guise of agency but accompanied by a more prevalent force of abuse
I'm scared, Sam. All the time.
I've seen it, too. What he really looks like, behind whatever vessel. It still keeps me up at night.
How do you deal with it?
so....I don't really see much analysis around how central patriarchal manhood and masculinity are to the show. and specifically, how it conceptualises strength/weakness through its two leading characters' arcs. so here's an attempt.
(warning: this post is LONG and incoherent. i'm not kidding)
like i do think that the show's differential framing of both brothers, especially during the kripke era, reflects their creator's own complicated relationship with masculinity (the way kripke venerates a certain brand of masculinity in interviews and through his work. is awfully fascinating to me lmao)
on one hand, dean as a character embodies the kind of easygoing masculinity most men grow up aspiring to, or feel pressured to emulate. on the other hand, sam is very much presented as the 'weaker' nerdier brother - someone who men might identify with, but would resent doing so. and honestly, I think that resentment manifests in the show through uneven narrative treatment. because society at large punishes and polices men for being 'weak'.
hegemonic masculinity and manhood are at the core of dean's character. to ignore that fact is to fundamentally misunderstand what he represents. people tend to fixate on gender performativity over gendered patterns of behaviour when it comes to him - and yes, the particular ways he shows care (to sam, especially) defies what could be considered superficially masculine. but to me, it's more important to consider that trait within the greater scheme of his personality. traits like his propensity towards anger and outwardly expressing it, his tendency to take charge and lead, the stubbornness with which he clings to his beliefs and opinions, often unable to make concessions. because admitting wrongness would mean admitting to weakness. these are all universally human traits of course! but they're also very gendered traits when bundled together. care, for dean, is another avenue by which he remains in control. and remaining dominant and in control is central to how strength is conceived of within hegemonic masculinity. to take care of others represents strength; to be taken care of represents weakness. reliquishing control, in that sense, represents a failure of masculinity.
his overall character arc revolves around masculinity being a burden he resents, intensified by how he was raised. children are afforded vulnerability, care and protection - in the ways men aren't. he admits it himself - he never got to be a child. as the show goes on, he learns to occasionally concede and step back. he learns to reign himself in sometimes. but this core sense of who he is never fully changes, because that would involve willingly giving up a degree of control that existentially threatens his sense of manhood. and true change, at its heart, requires both admitting to weakness and letting go - two things incompatible with hegemonic masculinity. the show never ends up lingering long on his mistakes - he's cushioned from consequences in a way that doesn't push him to fundamentally change his way of being.
(now I'd also argue that the end of s5 as the end of dean's growth arc makes most sense through this lens. he learns to give up control and let go; he has to learn to trust in sam's strength to defeat lucifer)
two prominent examples of dean losing control are his hell torture subplot and his post-Purgatory/MoC arc. in fact, i think the latter ends up being a weaker mirror of the former. dean 'breaking' in hell under alistair's torture is presented as his big moment of weakness, a momentary failure to uphold masculinity (weakness emphasised through comparisons with john, literally being called daddy's little girl). he responds to his own victimisation by turning into the torturer, the one who inflicts violence and dominates, and in doing so neutralises the loss of control that comes with being a victim. losing oneself to violence and anger gives men an avenue to lose control without coming across as overtly weak - he still gets to assert control over those in his vicinity, through pain and terror. it's a snapshot of how the cycle of patriarchal violence and abuse perpetuates itself.
sam's struggles with masculinity revolve around his exclusion from hunting/heroism, a 'Boys Club' if you will - that dean and john belong to but one he's not granted equal participation in. his 'deficient' masculinity (according to the show) is presented at a surface level (incredible that in this show. you're considered a pansy for eating a salad) but is also confirmed on the level of narrative framing. i think the way the show tends to stress his mistakes as acts of weakness is the clearest example of this. decisions he makes that transgress the boundaries of acceptable masculinity are punished the harshest. for example, re: ruby - the real problem was never that he slept with a demon, but that he let himself not only get seduced by a woman, but led around by her. sam leaving hunting and settling down post s7 is treated unsympathetically, punished as a matter of selfishness, of lacking strength. dean settles down with a woman and her son post s5, he becomes a substitute husband-father, a protecting patriarch. sam's flashbacks post s7 are framed as an indulgent romantic melodrama - a contrast heightened by dean's paralleling flashbacks: a gritty, violent battle across Purgatory. one brother lets himself fall prey to the illusion of comfort (at the hands of a woman), the other fights back like a man to protect those under his watch.
much of sam's early seasons character arc is about him striving for the same heroic masculinity he sees in his brother, the kind he considers himself too inadequate to reach. his behaviour towards dean post s4 (calling him 'weak' for his post-Hell trauma) is just him turning the tables. it's him articulating - out loud - that thing the narrative and other men within the story punish him for. vulnerability, ultimately, is anathema for a man. his stubborn drive to achieve his goals, doggedly sticking to the path he's chosen, asserting himself over dean - all reads as him mimicking both dean AND john. left alone, vulnerable and emotionally the weakest he's ever been after dean's death, he turns towards emulating his two clearest role models for strength. unfortunately, none of this works out because as I mentioned earlier, his growing powers are inherently tainted on a subtextual level. the powers were given to him in the first place through an act of violation, forced upon him (and from a deal made by his mother). it's strength granted to him by a woman. his powers make him dependent on something outside of himself and his own internal will. even when pushing himself towards heroism, he can't escape the trap of being branded weak.
(misogyny is a critical component to hegemonic masculinity. and oh boy the way that's presented in spn......i could write a book about it lol)
part of what makes sam so interesting to me is the way in which his masculinity reads as liminal. even when he's judged for his failure to conform to hegemonic masculinity, he's never presented as effete or morally ambiguous enough to fit into an archetype like the sly, queercoded villain (see instead, a character like crowley is almost a textbook example). at the end of the day, he's still a categorically moral, heroic character. he turns to demon blood out of good intentions. when he lies, conceals, and avoids - it's never ambitious scheming pursued for personal gain. he's a flawed hero in that he's marked as a weak hero by the overly harsh standards of masculinity framing his story. he repeatedly experiences forms of vulnerability considered unpalatable in men, without compensating for those violations with punishing, retaliatory violence. which to me, makes his victories all the more compelling.
as messy as the series gets in its later seasons, I do think its thematic perspective on masculinity shifts somewhat. and we see it primarily through sam's development as a character. a common criticism I've seen thrown at him is how 'passive' he gets in the later seasons. but what i see instead is a character who learns to adapt, someone more settled in his skin, embracing the qualities in himself once deemed weak - by a different era, by different writers. older sam doesn't default to aggression as easily. he prefers to talk things over before a confrontation. he turns to diplomacy, he tries to seek understanding, he chooses empathy. but he's also steadfast in his decisions; he's more self-reliant, he learns to trust himself. he no longer returns fire with fire as his younger self would. he learns to let go of the struggle for control, and in that process learns to be kinder not only to himself but to the people around him. his concluding arc ultimately ends up being an optimistic one. the cycle of self-destructive masculine violence (also the cycle of patriarchal abuse) ends with his brother's death. he lives his life out embodying a new mode of masculinity and strength, one that allows for vulnerability.
#this episode is so awful#because dean is SO unfair to sam#throughout the whole thing#he doesnāt even try to put himself in samās position#at all#he just guilts sam throughout in a kind of crescendo of blame that culminates in the samulet going into the trash#i hate it (via themegalosaurus)
Whatās disturbing to me there is āplaying footsie with brace-face.ā Dean is an adult demeaning an eleven-year-old girl by insulting her appearance, and the kind of condescending prurience in āplaying footsieā reflects a disturbing strain in Deanās thinking about Samās sexual or romantic relationships. Itās revealing how much Dean emphasizes the idea that Sam is acting on a crush, rather than seeking out a normal, family Thanksgiving (the aspect of the situation that Sam himself cites). One of the ways Dean defends himself against Sam questioning the Winchester model of family or finding it insufficient to his needs is to assume that Sam is prioritizing sexuality over family and then subtly or not-so-subtly pathologize that sexuality, and seeing Dean apply that particular defense mechanism to something Sam did when he was eleven is quietly horrifying. Itās a moment that makes me really uneasy, more so than Deanās extreme perspective bias in DSotM, because I do get how far up his own subjectivity Deanās headspace was at that point in canon, and I think itās understandable and not totally unsympathetic, though not excused.Ā
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if you think about it. azazel is sams demonic father, he has his blood. azazel is lucifers son (not in the human way but we cant really apply earth rules here. demon blood is related to lucifer), which makes sam a descendant of lucifer as well. meaning that in a way sam, lucifer and jack all actually share blood. and are in fact, family in the literal sense. a family which dean is Not part of, because even though sam and dean share blood, they do not share THAT blood
how many times did Sam feel triggered and scared around Cas just to reassure himself it was Cas, and trust him completely, even as he was actually Lucifer? Lucifer, ridiculing him, so familiar to him, terrifying, while Sam just tells himself itās on him, heās the one with trauma, he just saw Lucifer in the Cage and now he canāt stop? While āCasā makes comments that sit under his skin and make him feel ridiculous and on edge?
Itās about how Sam doesnāt even question for a second being degraded in minor ways by his loved ones even when in reality itās someone who spent decades torturing him. How could it not at least feel somehow familiar, given the time they spent together? But he just accepts that itās Cas.
i think samās inability to kill john in 1.22 is a kind of impotence i hadnāt been able to name until now even though itās treated as such by john in the episode. you werenāt man enough to put your feelings aside and do what needed to be done etc etc. like despite the fact that sam is narratively assigned the role of oedipal son in his relationship he cannot in the end kill his father kill the demon thatās destroyed his family or avenge his girlfriend and mother (ofc dean will get to later). i guess this is one of the big reasons sam and johnās relationship feels much more like a father-daughter relationship to me than a father-son one. like a disobedient son kills his father a disobedient daughter refuses to be possessed by hers she runs away.
adihildilid tags: i canāt disregard them ig but for me dean is more good son bc in his obedience he is eventually empowered as johnās chosen heir << prev
fr like. where is... idk I have a post about this. but truly istg one of the weirder ways people in this fandom parse patriarchy is by like assuming this cartoonish One Alpha to Rule Them All vs Everyone Else dynamic when like. not for nothing. observing men irl will so quickly demonstrate that this is not how it works men are so enthusiastic about enforcing their place in the hierarchy and for most of them. in many situations. that place is the middle and enforcing That by being subordinate is good for the entire institution ergo worth it because it means they maintain their place at the top in whatever their special exception situation is (usually at home) or it buys them their upcoming place at the top when the current king falls* like people will have fun with how eager dean is to fall in line around men he respects and likes. up to a point. and godbless all in good fun. but it's simply not a headscratcher it's normal. it's delicious & nutritious because it's average not because it's some crazy contradiction
*not that I think dean is cynically calculating this At All. but most men aren't so.
kind of an interesting parallel between 2x03 and 8x01, where in bloodlust dean asks sam to hit him back after punching him (sam refuses) and in we need to talk talk about kevin dean throws sam to the floor to test if he's a monster before insisting sam do the same to him (sam refuses). 8x01 is particularly fascinating bc after sam says no dean commits the violation on himself, splashing his own face with holy water cutting his own arm with the knife. ofc i've always loved that scene bc it does so much to set up the dynamic for s8 and it suggests dean's entitlement towards sam's body (probably you could say the same for bloodlust but the lack of overt anger makes it more compelling bc its rarer) but i also like the way both these scenes underline the fact that dean legitimately finds catharsis in physical violence while fully understanding the potential these behaviors have to create an insurmountable gap in the sibling power dynamic. like similar to typical sibling behavior of "don't tell dad i hit you i'll let you hit me back" but they're adults and their father is dead so there is no one to tell there's no risk of formal punishment they're responsible for regulating their own relationship. so dean attempts to close that gap by offering sam the same catharsis through violence but it doesn't work bc violence doesn't make sam feel good it makes him feel monstrous. BUT ALSO these two moments stand out bc dean very rarely attempts to close the gap.
Can u give an example of what u mean by a Sam transgression that Dean shares and doesn't get hate for? Ig I'm just not really understanding that post but would like to! /gen
yeah sorry for being vague AND bitter lol that post was honestly based on 2x19 and 7x04 and how the first scene sam is (rightfully) "called out" for but I've rarely seen anyone mention dean giving a very similar response in the second scene #circular spn discourse then we die
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ahhhhhhhh dad and Dean on a hunt together while little Sammy stays home with his imaginary friend. Sam can't go on the hunt because he's soft and sweet and has an imaginary friend (which he has bc he's lonely bc he can't go on the hunt.) Innocence must be protected. Always on the outside of the bubble. Jealous and lonely and oh so safe. And Dean who would never ever have an imaginary friend bc first of all, LAME, childish, and Dean is not a child and never was but sam is a child for longer than he expects or desires, he's a child for so long that even LITTLE KID DEAN has outpaced him. He's baby brother FOREVER!!!! NO FAIR.
SEASON EIGHT. everyone has already said this. but they are like: while sam was off playing house with his military wife in cartoon fairytale world, Dean was steeped in bloody grimy hyperreality living PURE like an ANIMAL. while Sam was at the farmer's market purchasing one single red pepper, Dean was HUNTING. and I'm thinking abt this bc spn always frames the hunting lifestyle as an inherently deeper more authentic experience sitting just beneath the surface of the naive civilian artifice which we simultaneously covet and resent. obviously this is bc it is military propaganda.
but I'm thinking abt all this bc I'm thinking abt popular hc that Amelia was a hallucination in conjunction with Sam's post-cage issues identifying what is Real. Sam left for Stanford but Stanford in spn represents civility and thus is inherently Less Real than life on the road. and partially this is bc the show is abt classic action heroes and normal life doesn't show up on camera. lucifer tells Sam: you're real, I'm very real, everything else is just set dressing. doylistically, women like Lisa, Amelia, Jess and Mary's blessed memory ARE rendered set dressing. stanford is the djinn dream. stone number one is pain. Sam's linchpin for reality post-cage is hunting. you pretended to be normal but the REAL you is based in violence. hey man like it or not we are not like other people. so Sam's bid for individuality and 'normal' life is inevitably reframed as Sam shutting his eyes and trying to live in a dream, aka impotent spineless refusal of the call. so ofc it contributes to Sam's disassociation/unreality even pre-cage when he's been told over and over again not to trust his own mind. & this is one of the main contributors to fan perception of Sam as some sort of incredible liar bc he wants to be a civilian even though he knows the Truth and civilians inherently inhabit a shallower level of reality.
I watched this with Husband who saw, like, none of it. It seemed blindingly obvious to me, so there are some things Iād like to point out. Mainly? Sam is terrified of Lucifer. And not in an intellectual way, in a visceral, lizard-brain kind of way. Heās pushing past it, because they have a universe to save, but heās not nearly as unaffected as some people seem to think.
(Sorry for the shitty gif quality, Iām unskilled at this.)
Example A: Lucifer tries to disintegrate them. Look at Samās reaction vs. Deanās. Dean pulls away, he knows something was supposed to happen, but heās not sure what. It also takes him a lot longer to react. Thatās because while Dean knows intellectually that angels can mojo you by snapping, but it takes his mind a second to connect the dots.
Sam spent decades trapped in the cage with Lucifer, whose powers were very much intact. He doesnāt need to connect the dots intellectually, his body knows that sound and reacts instinctively. He reacts faster and he reacts differently- while Dean looks offended and slightly put out, Sam blinks- another reflexive flinch response. Ā
Example B: Lucifer storms off to have a tantrum. Dean turns to watch him go, but keeps his eyes on Luciferās face.
Sam drops his eyes, backs out of the way, and holds his breath. He sees Lucifer coming and does everything he can to get the fuck out of the way. Heās being about as submissive as your body language will let you be, when youāre 6ā²4, and Sam knows it- after Lucifer passes he glances at Dean, like heās expecting him to make a comment.
B.1- A few seconds later, Dean has turned his attention over to Chuck. Sam is keeping his eye on the door- he doesnāt want to turn his back on the last place he saw Lucifer.Ā
Example C: Dean switches his attention between Chuck and Sam. At one point he glances at Lucifer. Sam, on the other hand, is clearly nervous. Heās trying to talk to Chuck but he canāt make solid eye contact with anyone in particular. He keeps glancing over to Lucifer (who is just about boiling over with rage at this point) and switching his weight from one side to another.Ā
Example D: Whenever Sam has the chance, He stands closer to Chuck than Lucifer. Or actually just, he stands far away from Lucifer. He tries to keep either Dean or Chuck between him and Lucifer all the time- I think itās because theyāre both people he feels can protect him. That having been said, he angles his body toward Lucifer a lot- thatās the focus of his attention, because thatās where he feels a threat may come from.Ā
Example E: Chuck teleports them off the balcony. Dean takes a second to catch his balance, he looks back up at where they just were (to see if heās still there? Who knows.) Samās used to getting manhandled by angel powers. Heās been zapped all over the place. He knows heās intact, he doesnāt need to check to make sure his stomach is still here. He goes straight into assessing the situation heās in now, which is: next to Lucifer. Heās trying to listen to Chuck but he canāt- he needs to see what Luciferās doing.Ā
Bonus example: protecting the Winchester family jewels.
Basically they never had a straight up āSam is scared of Luciā scene but if you watch, there isnāt one single second in the whole show where heās not paying attention to where Lucifer is, and what heās doing.
I noticed these things, so I was happy to hear Jared say it was deliberate.
Also, itās worth noting the same thing happened with Gadreel. Next time you watch the end of Season 9, keep an eye on where everyoneās standing. Sam always keeps Cas in between himself and Gadreel.
tl;dr Jared Padalecki is a fabulous actor who puts thought into every individual second of his performance, scripted or not.
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i've said it before and i'll say it again: personally i don't think sam is '''womancoded''' specifically but i do think that based on supernatural's genre and it's tropes, sam's character is set within the archetype of the narrative's nucleus Other in both the most 2005 and gothic horror/supernatural resurgence/metahorror way possible and as the show's allegorical patriarchal structure shifted and developed, the non-role that he eventually and, more often than not, falls into when it comes to episodic tropes are ones that can be seen as normatively feminineādamsel in distress, prudishness, beta bitch (to dean in context), bratty-ness (2.15), hysterical, and he becomes jack's Mother in terms of the roles he and dean eventually occupy when it comes to considering jack as their son.
and while it is valid and true to think that this ideaāin regards to any kind of gender-related concept in regards to a canonically cisgender male character in supernaturalāexists because of the existing misogynist tendencies within both fandom and the way the show itself handles its female characters, and that by thinking about a male character in this way, it's an excuse for not caring about these female characters but sam is also explicitly and purposefully written this way, both in terms of his original character archetypes and certain tropes that he's written into (singer has discussed sam's role as jack's mother); both ideas can and do exist.
anyway the point is that supernatural is just so heteronormative that it could not create a space outside of an idea of the show's own standard of masculinity within which sam could reside. and even then the Othering and liminality of sam's character, which originally exist in reference to his monstrosity, both set the foundation for and perpetuate this aspect of his patriarchal position. and honestly, he isn't the only character that this is explored in; a lot of cis-male demons are portrayed as being queer or doing 'emasculating' things because of their monstrosity. sam's Othering can exist as an allegory for a lot of thingsāqueerness, immigration, neurodivergency, etc.ābut based on just how evident masculinity is in supernatural, feminine gender explorations are low-hanging fruit.
thinking about the instances where sam & dean compared each other to john, with dean using it as a means to insult sam vs sam using it (on both the giving and receiving end) to take a stand for the other party (against things sam himself was subjected to). and the phrasing, dean using āwereā (and implying āareā present tense) definitive statements vs sam questioning dean and saying that heās getting dangerously close to being like john.
dean saying to sam āyou two were practically the same personā and āyou were more like him than i will ever beā in jump the shark after dean was against giving adam the choice to learn about the supernatural and how to protect himself.
and then sam saying āyou want to watch out for them. thatās great. iām just asking, how do you do that and not turn into dad?ā in two and a half men about dean moving lisa & ben around and keeping them on lockdown. and then āwhatās up with all the orders? youāre starting to sound like dadā in the big empty about dean ordering jack around.
also in jump the shark, they never met the real adam, and this was way after they discovered that. there was no reason for dean to say that except to hurt sam, as he does when sam opposes him. this time it was about samās accepting of adam as a Winchester and sam & dean being at odds over how they regard johnās parenting, despite sam finally āagreeingā with it after being severely criticized his entire life for opposing it (important that sam was in support of the Right to Information, which is the opposite of john, and not of the controlling aspect). all of that compared to two and a half men and the big empty where dean is actively in the midst of controlling people he claims to know best for.
aliusfrater tags: "weaponised comparison vs comparison made out an observation of behaviour. like when analysed, sam's behaviour is legitimately not a 1:1 unknowingly emulation of john while dean's IS. it kind of reminds me of how differently sam is able to go about helping dean from his position within their relationship vs what dean is able to do. there is more of an authority over sam's body wrt dean's instances than there is for sam about dean. think: 6.05 vs 6.07 or 6.11. it's like sam doesn't Have or want the narrative/language/familial authority to make a direct comparison. which is also exacerbated by the context of dean's comparisons vs sam's; dean's as usually taking place when dean's control over a circumstance is threatened (specifically by sam's actions) vs sam's while giving commentary on a situation within which dean has known authority over someone else/other people."
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