RollZero

Neither of them was able to "betray her". The bond between Yona and the dragon warriors was one of the most fucked up things that happened in that manga.

What is even more detrimental is the high number of people that lived and died between the two appearances of Hiryuu. How many of them suffered for nothing?

And Yona just did not really address this. She did it for Zeno, but has she ever understood, what the bond was? She pretended like she was just so glorious and righteous, when this whole shit, just happened, because she was the reincarnation.

That’s what I’m most annoyed about. Everything that has been happening to the dragon warriors, the decedents and Zeno is FULLY her doing. It doesn’t matter if she didn’t want it, it doesn’t matter if she had no choice but to do it, she was the one who allowed it to happen so she is the only one responsible for it. Because she was the only one who could’ve undone it but didn’t.

I once wrote a post saying Yona is either selfish or stupid/naive. I still think it’s the case because she either does not care that her happiness cost thousands of lives, or does not understand it. No guilt or responsibility for the lives lost is bothering her.

Everything has a price, we can see it clearly. The dragon warriors had short lives, Zeno’s was unending. Soo-won and Hak aka sword and shield had to go to the afterlife to get Yona back.

Meanwhile Yona never pays any price neither for her using the powers of the dragon warriors, neither for having the cycle on her hands. Her happiness is vital for her and she kept refusing to sacrifice anything that would mean losing it, even if it meant bringing innocent people into trouble for it.

Fine, because in the end no one paid any of the supposed prices. Yona got back as if nothing happened, the dragons magically got human body parts, Zeno became immortal, Hak’s body waltzed back from the heavens.

Soo-won meanwhile was the only one who got the incurable bite that left him a cripple. Funnily out of all of these people above, this guy never had ANY superpowers, his blood only gave him pain. So yes, basically the author is saying that betraying Yona cannot be forgiven, so he should stay crippled.

Yes, it was likely that Hiryuu had been just reborn again, even if Yona had not wished for it. Up until this time, we do not know, if it had even been able for Hiryuu to become a god again or if he had to stay a human being.

If he had stayed a human being, he would have been reborn and the dragon gods would have made other dragon warriors.

STILL Yona did not care, if people suffer as long she could keep her perfect happy princess dream of a happy end. You are right. She is selfish. Unbelievable selfish (This is the reason, why Soo Won most likely didn´t fall in love with her. He hates selfish people)

It was so apparent. The same person used slaves and had the guts to tell to Zeno of all people, that they were just like this, when Zeno told her, that Soo Won/Keishuk would us the dragon warriors. Easy for her to say, she has never paid the price for any shit.

As long as she was happy and content, Yona does not care so much for the pain of others. She would have rather lived in darkness than to give up anything of the things she desired. Just that this would have meant the death of countless people. I wonder if this was, what Iksoo had talked about. That if she lived like she desired, than this would lead to a catastrophe.

I think its definitely one of the reasons

Easy for her to say, she has never paid the price for any shit.

Yep

As long as she was happy and content, Yona does not care so much for the pain of others. She would have rather lived in darkness than to give up anything of the things she desired. Just that this would have meant the death of countless people. I wonder if this was, what Iksoo had talked about. That if she lived like she desired, than this would lead to a catastrophe.

Yes, yes, yes. I was so shocked when she said that. “It should be fine, right? Even if it’s hell?”. Basically it means as long as I get what I want, it should be ok, yeah?

Bro the world will be hell only because of you being there, do you really think a whole country wants to live in hell for you to be happy? She’s horrible honestly, the way Yona behaved in that arc was insane to me. Idk maybe it’s me who’s too moralistic but too bad a supposedly “good” heroine is not.

And no one even notices.

If not for Soo Won, who found a way for Hak and Yona to flee that situation

Exactly, he was the one who turned the tables there. If it wasn’t for him, Yona and Hak would be done for.

And nobody notices it. Safe for a few people. But yes, I was so shocked, when she said this.

But it is consistent with her character. She was selfish at the beginning and she is selfish at the end. (She does have good qualities, but selfless she is definitely not). At the beginning King Il asked, if she did not want for Soo Won to be happy and Yona wondered, if she was not supposed to be happy. Being together with Soo Won was her happiness, after all. If he was unhappy...well. King Il for all his faults did say something true her. Soo Won would have become very unhappy and he would have died, because he still had the Crimson Illness.

This manga is crazy. We have so many people, who would sacrifice themselves: Soo Won above else, Zeno, Lily, the other three former dragon warriors, Hak (heck even Hak would have given his life to protect other people).

But Yona - the titular heroine? No, other people have to live in darkness. If they celebrate her for this shit, I think I am going insane. (Most likely even Hiryuu came down for a selfish reason)

The thing with Chagol - when Yona was supposed to sacrifice herself for other people - it was clear, that this was a trap. Yona would never sacrifice herself for other people.

This is the clearest difference between her and Lily, who does fit Soo Won more. Lily would have given her life even for complete strangers, for her friend.

Maybe I’m being judgemental but I struggle to understand what is Yona’s development about. She can do kicks and shoot arrows now, cool. She is less oblivious to what’s happening around her. Cool too. She finally accepted the one responsibility she had since birth - being a princess. Incredible, even though it’s literally her duty. But nonetheless she is still selfish, still naive, and still dependent on her defenders. Her development was supposed to be about letting go of these qualities but none of them really went away did they.

I would expect this from such a "compassionate girl", after all. Do you wanna know, why she repeats Soo Won´s mother?

Because Yon hi had sympathy for Yona...No shit, Yona was so touched, when Yon hi thought about her. That is why, she adopted - likely- her will.

I wish I knew Japanese and could talk to Kusanagi, what is her opinion on all of this. Does she think the Yona she created is righteousness itself? Because I was disgusted by her mindset in the final arc, however it’s never addressed and everyone keeps thinking she’s perfection itself. As if it doesn’t matter that she let the cycle happen and cared only about herself there. And that she was pathetically useless in the battle with the gods, she literally failed to do anything.

While poor Soo-won absolutely couldn’t go unpunished for kicking her out and all the good things he did do not count. Him and Zeno were the ones who made the most impact in the final battle.

Well, I doubt, that she considers Yona the most selfless person on this earth.

Ik soo was literally crying, when he saw the effect of Yona´s life.

I laugh how much you have to "take the gods literally".

"If you live on, the land of Kouka Kingdom will tremble and will be swept into the tempest"

Isn´t it bizarre that Ik soo connected it to Yona and not Zeno?

But Yona would have allowed the " scorching wave of bloodshed".

Even the dragon warriors, who are manipulated to love Yona are horrified at first.

Yon does not look so glorious in that picture, doesn´t she?

But then why did she give Yona such an end. A person like her has no business sitting on the throne…and selfishness as grave as hers…should it really be just dismissed like that?

Soo-won’s punishment doesn’t sit well with me either. He can be guilty all he wants but leaving him injured was far from necessary.

But oh well. What’s done is done, now we can only speculate what will happen next. For me the most important thing is that Soo-won is happy in the very end, and the extra did give me hope.

Only my personal opinion, but what I would hate for Soo-won’s end is him being happy serving Kouka as a counselor alongside Yona and Hak (just like he dreamed). I would hate that. First of all Yona and Hak, despite still caring deeply for him, will never fully forgive him. They will never be friends like before. Secondly, Soo-won being happy with serving the kingdom wouldn’t fully convince me either, I don’t think that it is what could bring him happiness. I would really hate for Soo-won to turn into a second Keishuk, he is not like that.

I wish he could find something selfish to be happy about, unrelated to Yona, Hak or the kingdom. Something fully of his own.

At least, we know, that Yona won´t get sick worrying for other people.^^ Well, she does have some good qualities, even though I consider Soo Won a better candidate. However, Soo Won is the type of person that "gives too much and dies, unfortunately."

By the way, I doubt there will be a 13. Queen/or King, as this is an unlucky number.

Still, I consider it unbelievable, that Yona becomes Queen Regnant at the ripe age of 16.

Soo-won’s punishment doesn’t sit well with me either. He can be guilty all he wants but leaving him injured was far from necessary.

If I am not completely wrong in my assumptions, there will be people, who value him highly. And this is - for me - the most important. If Soo Won will be valued as a king? I am not sure.

But oh well. What’s done is done, now we can only speculate what will happen next. For me the most important thing is that Soo-won is happy in the very end, and the extra did give me hope.

Indeed.

Only my personal opinion, but what I would hate for Soo-won’s end is him being happy serving Kouka as a counselor alongside Yona and Hak (just like he dreamed). I would hate that. First of all Yona and Hak, despite still caring deeply for him, will never fully forgive him. They will never be friends like before. Secondly, Soo-won being happy with serving the kingdom wouldn’t fully convince me either, I don’t think that it is what could bring him happiness. I would really hate for Soo-won to turn into a second Keishuk, he is not like that.

Oh, Soo Won will be the best counselor, one can be. He will "bite" and "drive Yona to the edge", if she should really endanger the country.

Soo Won is the kind of person, that just cannot be 100 % selfish. He always, always is thinking of others. He has always felt for other people. So the chances of him just going away are basically non-existant.

Yes, it might be, that Hak and Yona won´t fully understand him, or forgive him, but there will be people for him as well. The borders aren´t so clear-cut anymore. And Kouka is like a child that Yona, Soo Won and Hak have to take care of with others.

Well, as a counselor Soo Won has more freedom to go out and do stuff and this fits him actually better than being bound to the throne. I honestly believe, that Soo Won has never wished to be king in the first place. It has been only pain for him.

Besides Soo Won is not Keishuk and will never be. But Yona might have to fight a few battles, as Soo Won´s fraction surely has an overweight. Ju do, Keishuk and Soo Won share some values. I honestly would want to see it, what they plan together.

I wish he could find something selfish to be happy about, unrelated to Yona, Hak or the kingdom. Something fully of his own.

I think, he might find people he loves, different from Yona and Hak and in and itself has Soo Won´s way always been his own, even though he might call it "his father´s". Soo Won believed more than any other person in the power of human beings and his wish has been fullfilled. His way meant freedom from the people´s self-inflicted immaturity.

Surely, he needs to learn to play and be happy just for the moment, without purpose or intention. Just laughing with the people he likes. Soo Won needs no purpose, he needs - in my opinion- the absence of it from time to time.

in fact even struggle to imagine Soo-won as Yona’s counselor. The job supposes that he will be with Yona and Hak a good part of everyday life, and for now they’re still not on good terms. How will that even work I wonder, I hope we could be shown the dynamic they’ll have.

Yeah honestly both have their bad moments. Yona will always prioritize herself and the people she loves over the country, while Soo-won didn’t even let himself live because he dedicated all of himself to the country.

I don’t think Yona will be a really bad queen if we’re honest. Though imo she is still very much at the “in progress” stage. There is potential but she’s not a ready leader yet, I hope it’s going to be touched later on. After all it’s exactly why Soo-won, Keishuk and Ju-doh are sticking around. She’s incapable of leading without them for now.

By the way, I doubt there will be a 13. Queen/or King, as this is an unlucky number.

I dont think it works that way, Yona’s child will for sure inherit the throne.

If I am not completely wrong in my assumptions, there will be people, who value him highly.

Yep that’s the most important point to me, we saw that Ogi and Lili do value Soo-won for being Soo-won. Not sure where Hiyori went off to but him too. Keishuk and Ju-doh I imagine will always be Soo-won’s buddies too even if it’s more complicated.

So the chances of him just going away are basically non-existant.

Yes, I also think so. I in fact think it would’ve been way more humiliating for him to just leave the royal life and go become a wanderer like Ik-soo. I can’t imagine that. Being the queen’s counselor makes him second person in power in the country (since Hak will never really be king, only consort). So yes, I think it does suit him. Though I worry how will he “find something of his own” if he’s always glued to work.

On the other hand, I do think he’ll be more free to move around now, and as he’s “not Keishuk”, I think he’ll travel and sneak out like he used to, even more than he did when king.

The fact that he’s “not Keishuk” is exactly what makes me feel that serving the country can’t be all he needs for being happy. Unlike Keishuk, Soo-won does seem to earn for emotional closeness even though he’ll never admit it aloud.

Well, as a counselor Soo Won has more freedom to go out and do stuff and this fits him actually better than being bound to the throne. I honestly believe, that Soo Won has never wished to be king in the first place. It has been only pain for him.

100%

Soo Won needs no purpose, he needs - in my opinion- the absence of it from time to time.

Well, I hope, she will never be glorious Yona, but instead always value the advice of her counselors. She will need it her whole life. Even the most perfect king is only so good - this applies to Soo Won as well.

I dont think it works that way, Yona’s child will for sure inherit the throne.

Numbers are pretty important here. Soo Won was the 11th king of the Sky Tribe and he was crowned in the 11th chapter. King Il was the 10th and Yona will be the 12th monarch.

If the child will inherit the throne, we don´t actually know at all. It is a lil bit strange, that she chose these numbers.

It is not exactly rare that numbers might play a certain role in a work of fiction.

Even the freaking days demonstrate some symmetry.

In the first chapter: There were 7 days until Yona´s birthday, when the story started. Soo Won came right at that day and told Yona, that he would stay a week.

And exactly 7 days after the sun came back, Soo Won - again, he is the determining factor - announces Yona´s coronation.

We know this, since Zeno was telling us this, that he had vanished for 7 days. (Soo Won´s declaration and Zeno´s reapparance happen on the same day).

On the same day, Soo Won determined, that Yona´s coronation would be in 4 days. (7+4 = 11, Soo Won´s number as a king). He is calling the shots, again.

We also know from Val´s comment, that there were 8 days between the reappearance of the sun and the present day in the extra chapter. This is one day later, because there are only 3 days until the coronation. Soo Won the little rascal had sent the invitations most likely even before he asked Yona. (Tae Jun is right, one time of a million times)

The announcement of Yona´s coronation and Val and Meinyan in the tavern took place on the same day. There were only 3 days until the coronation.

Yep that’s the most important point to me, we saw that Ogi and Lili do value Soo-won for being Soo-won. Not sure where Hiyori went off to but him too. Keishuk and Ju-doh I imagine will always be Soo-won’s buddies too even if it’s more complicated.

There might be even more people, even. Even the group among Ogi knew "Won" - there were more people of the backstreet, who loved and adored Soo Won.

Yes, I also think so. I in fact think it would’ve been way more humiliating for him to just leave the royal life and go become a wanderer like Ik-soo. I can’t imagine that. Being the queen’s counselor makes him second person in power in the country (since Hak will never really be king, only consort). So yes, I think it does suit him. Though I worry how will he “find something of his own” if he’s always glued to work.

Would it be humiliating for him? I don´t know, it could be. I just think, that Soo Won feels such a high responsibility towards other people, even towards Yona (Soo Won knows, how horrible is sitting on the throne it), that he would not just abandon his task.

Indeed, there might be times, at least at the beginning, Yona might have to prove , that she is really the better candidate in comparison to the previous king. Soo Won was an extraordinary good king, after all. Even if this is not the case, Soo Won might help her here.

Forgetting work...I think, he needs the help of the people above all. Tactics might be really Soo Won´s field of work.

On the other hand, I do think he’ll be more free to move around now, and as he’s “not Keishuk”, I think he’ll travel and sneak out like he used to, even more than he did when king.

Exactly, Soo Won will be able to move more freely. And freedom - for others and himself - is one point he always had aspired to acquire.

The fact that he’s “not Keishuk” is exactly what makes me feel that serving the country can’t be all he needs for being happy. Unlike Keishuk, Soo-won does seem to earn for emotional closeness even though he’ll never admit it aloud.

Keishuk needs other people as well, or at least Soo Won. Soo Won is Keishhuk´s emotional crutch, the one person, Keishuk would sacrifice his life for.

But yes, Soo Won like Meinyan is actually pretty happy, if he is among other people. His feelings for others are so strong; I agree, close emotional relationships are what this guy desperately needs.

Yep, and I know the one and only person he was always himself with. I see her as literally his only chance to live a full happy life instead of finding it sufficient to be a pawn of Kouka.

The only thing is that 13 is not an unlucky number in eastern cultures, not in China and not in Japan as far as I know, it's only a western thing. So I don't think it will matter, in any case someone will have to rule Kouka after Yona unless Kouka colapses under her glorious rule haha.

The unlucky number is in fact 4, so actually it's curious that Yona's coronation was announced 4 days before it. While Soo-won's happened in 3 days. The lucky number is considered 8.

Would it be humiliating for him?

I didn’t express myself correctly there. It’s not that he’d feel humiliated, the only thing Soo-won has ever felt something close to humiliation was about girls and marriage haha. But Soo-won becoming a lone wanderer and a commoner, completely leaving the country to other people would feel humiliating to his character, as if he is not that special and was completely unnecessary since the beginning. It would feel like punishment/banishment more than what’s happening now. As if Yona is good enough to make it without him. So I’m actually glad he stayed there as her counselor, I now don’t really agree with people that say he better have left the country. Nah.

Keishuk needs other people as well, or at least Soo Won.

I still can’t get used to it to be honest, I didn’t expect Keishuk to genuinely care for Soo-won since he started considering Yona as the next ruler even while Soo-won was alive. I used to think he only cared for him because Soo-won was the perfect king but the latest chapters showed that it’s not true. Even though they’re quite close I wouldn’t say Soo-won was ever truly comfortable with Keishuk. Keishuk may feel connection to Soo-won but I’m not sure if Soo-won has any for Keishuk.

I even remember some drawings, I think made by Kusanagi herself where Soo-won says what he think of the generals, when it came to Keishuk he said he doesn’t really like him. But I don’t remember if that was official.

But in any case Keishuk is for sure not the sociable, empathetic person Soo-won is, and majorly doesn’t care for other people. He seems unbothered by feelings and people, while Soo-won imo is quite miserable without that.

I cannot expect it, when Hak and Yona will learn, that it was Lily, Soo Won had the engagement meeting with.

The unlucky number is in fact 4, so actually it's curious that Yona's coronation was announced 4 days before it. While Soo-won's happened in 3 days. The lucky number is considered 8.

Wow. What an interesting piece of information! Great!

But why would Kusanagi choose 4 days for Yona´s coronation?!!

I considered 12 a lucky number, since Kusanagi has some allusions to the Christian Belief as well...with the big star in the sky or Arthurian legends. So Yona´s number is much stronger than Soo Won´s.

But Soo-won becoming a lone wanderer and a commoner, completely leaving the country to other people would feel humiliating to his character, as if he is not that special and was completely unnecessary since the beginning. It would feel like punishment/banishment more than what’s happening now. As if Yona is good enough to make it without him. So I’m actually glad he stayed there as her counselor, I now don’t really agree with people that say he better have left the country. Nah.

Ah, now it becomes clearer.

I still can’t get used to it to be honest, I didn’t expect Keishuk to genuinely care for Soo-won since he started considering Yona as the next ruler even while Soo-won was alive.

Based on his education Keishuk is a pretty logical kind of guy, and since Yona had much influence and apparently a couple of features of a good monarch, he would consider her.

There is a certain scene after Shin ha´s attack on Soo Won, when Keishuk - actually - wanted to draw back the troops, but Soo Won refused at first. Keishuk still was against it, but could not really explain logically, why he was of that opinion. Soo Won then told him, that he would not survive much longer.

For me, this was the scene that sold it for me, that Keishuk genuinely cared more about Soo Won than about their common goal. Soo Won was sick, in pain and Keishuk did not want for him to work any longer. Soo Won´s wellbeing was - apparently - more important to Keishuk than Yu hon´s plan.

It is actually logical, when you consider, that Soo Won did rescue Keishuk´s life from the other followers of Yu hon. They would have torn him apart for not rescuing Yu hon. Besides young Soo Won did want to include Keishuk in his play, when they were younger.

I used to think he only cared for him because Soo-won was the perfect king but the latest chapters showed that it’s not true. Even though they’re quite close I wouldn’t say Soo-won was ever truly comfortable with Keishuk. Keishuk may feel connection to Soo-won but I’m not sure if Soo-won has any for Keishuk.

Actually, that the relationship between Keishuk and Soo Won is not that bad, can be - in retrospective - observed very early. Soo Won jokes with Keishuk in chapter 11, when he becomes king. This is rather rare. He only jokes with people he genuinely likes - like Lily, Ju do and Keishuk as well.

Keishuk respects Soo Won greatly and does not refuse his orders - Soo Won has the stronger personality - Should Soo Won however endanger himself in any way, Keishuk starts to nag at him. After the Water Tribe Arc Keishuk shouted at him, that Soo Won should have brought more people and stomped away furiously. Even in chapter 276 Keishuk lost his cool that the dragon gods did not heal Soo Won entirely.

I do believe, that Keishuk is one reason, why Soo Won felt a little less lonely after the death of both of his parents. Keishuk took partly the role of a caretaker for Soo Won, who is 7 years younger than Keishuk.

Idk😭. I double checked what I said just in case because I was sure about it being the case in China but not Japan but it seems correct.

since Kusanagi has some allusions to the Christian Belief as well...with the big star in the sky or Arthurian legends.

She does? Oh wow. Honestly…no matter how much I hated the final arc and chapter, I can’t deny that Kusanagi is a genius. To fit so much symbolism, so many small details into one story is very impressive.

Even in chapter 276 Keishuk lost his cool that the dragon gods did not heal Soo Won entirely.

Actually this was exactly the moment when I was finally convinced that Keishuk does care for Soo-won personally. Up until now his worry for Soo-won’s health seemed to me more like worry for him as king, since his health = ability to rule. But yeah in the end he does care, I’m very glad. I was scared he would also be charmed by Yona and betray Soo-won.

I’m also glad Min-soo seems to have stayed as Soo-won’s healer and didn’t crawl back to Yona. So +1 more ally of Soo-won. I hope that’s what it is.

I do believe, that Keishuk is one reason, why Soo Won felt a little less lonely after the death of both of his parents. Keishuk took partly the role of a caretaker for Soo Won, who is 7 years younger than Keishuk.

Yes I agree. Ngl I’m still inclined to consider the theory of Keishuk being Yu-hon’s illegitimate son correct, they are so alike for some reason, I can’t shake the feeling off. Soo-won seemed to spend a lot of time with him in childhood too.

For now the only people we know Soo-won genuinely loved were his parents, Yona and Hak. But what’s important is that we never saw his thoughts on other people. I refuse to believe Soo-won is not attached to Ogi f.e. I don’t really believe Soo-won doesn’t like Keishuk, and yet his relationship with Ogi and Lili is a bit different, can’t even explain the feeling.

In any case I would appreciate it if Soo-won finally opens up and conveys his true feelings.

Soo Won does not trust Keishuk entirely, as he did ot told him many things like Hak and Yona being alive for example.

Is Yona´s coronation then a not so positive event? That would be strange...But what could it mean?!!

Yes I agree. Ngl I’m still inclined to consider the theory of Keishuk being Yu-hon’s illegitimate son correct, they are so alike for some reason, I can’t shake the feeling off. Soo-won seemed to spend a lot of time with him in childhood too.

Well, in a way Keishuk is his elder sibling. Keishuk learnt under Yu hon as well and followed his belief. It appears he was some orphan with nowhere to go.

I’m also glad Min-soo seems to have stayed as Soo-won’s healer and didn’t crawl back to Yona. So +1 more ally of Soo-won. I hope that’s what it is.

Min Soo was also a former playmate of Soo Won, even though their social standing differed. But unfortunately, since Soo Won had to become king, he also drifted apart from Min Soo. To the point where Min Soo started to hate him after the murder of King Il.

Though, you are correct, that Min Soo started to care for Soo Won along the way. Min Soo wished to heal him in every case.

and yet his relationship with Ogi and Lili is a bit different, can’t even explain the feeling.

Lily is the one person, that Soo Won could not discard - no matter what. That is the reason, why I believe, Soo Won loves her already pretty strongly. He jokes with her and is more an airhead with her than with everybody else. Soo Won is really partly an airhead, somebody that loves to play and joke, being rowdy and above else free. Lily is exactly his kind of person. Soo Won adores selfless people, who are blunt and a little wild.

Isn´t it funny, that he loves exactly the kind of behaviour that Lily most likely is unsure about?

Ogi is also blunt and rowdy from his character. He is a good person as well.

Yet, there is a clear difference between Ogi and Lily right? Soo Won tried to discard him, but could not get rid of her. Even after she betrayed him in front of so many people.

In any case I would appreciate it if Soo-won finally opens up and conveys his true feelings.

Kusanagi: This is harsh, but if Su-Won had not hypothetically killed Il and married Yona, they would have had a very unhappy marriage. Yona would soon realize Su-Won would never love her romantically. Su-Won would be too busy trying to wage wars and do politics alone, as he had watched Il for a long time and as expected Yona was not raised properly for reliable ruling. Il would be trying to break Yona away from Su-Won and constantly banning Su-Won from war and fighting with him. Things would turn south real quick. People would get hurt. The Su-Won x Yona pairing was impossible from the start.

honestly that's what i wanted to say 😭 no hate for hak tho but that's literally his whole personality like being crazy in love with yona and having a whole low self-esteem toward soowon that when he couldn't be him he self inserted himself into him and couldn't accept the fact that soowon didn't like yona the way he did, god the fact that the whole cursed hairpin plot took more that it should cuz he overreacted and blew the matter out of proportion when it was just a normal birthday gift. good that soowon is obvious in romance like kusa said cuz if he wasn't we would have seen the most brainwashing methods that make one person like another in front of us if soowon and yona end up together.

BRUHHH. Self-inserting into Su-Won is something I did not consider, wow. That's even worse. That's not loyalty. That would be Hak clinging to some idealized version of Su-Won because HE could not stand being the one in that position.

This seriously undercuts the idea that this bond was a real friendship then. That's jealousy and idealization.

Damn this is a huge hit to Hak and Su-Won's dynamic... I always thought their friendship was deep; yes, it seems Su-Won loved Hak genuinely, he saw how devoted Hak was to Yona, easily accepted the Hak x Yona pairing without any care or problem, heck he was even jealous of Yona for having Hak's devotion...

More people should be more… talkative about that fact. There should be more political tension, distrust. Especially considering that Kouka is strained by reparations, you'd expect nobles and generals to question the stability of putting a woman on the throne. Not just a random comment from Tae-Jun. More dissent. More confusion from the audience, like “a woman ruling? Why did the king decide to give the reins to a woman? What will happen to the country under a woman’s leadership?”

Just a detail that should have been/be expanded upon imo. Is it because she is the reincarnation of a man that everyone relatively acknowledges who she is? Does that override the gender issue?

Everything in Akatsuki no Yona is fate. Or part of the arrangement for Hiryuu, like the dragon gods express it. Absolutely wow. I was just baffled, why nobody felt personally insulted that their entire life was entirely manufactured by these bunch of gods, solely for Yona.

All the pain, all these people went through was because of Yona. That she is protected. This is unbelievable. But the most unbelievable part is, that she is so loved by everybody and everyone. I mean, Yona is a nice girl and surely can´´t anything for her position. Yet, if I was Zeno I would feel completely shrewd over, if I was Soo Won, I would not believe it, that so much grief and misery of his was due to her being born.

Because if he really could have and Yona was the one who influenced him not to…well…

Let's look at how things went. After the death of Il, Yona is initially frozen, silent, and even afraid of even a single mention of Su-Won.

In Awa, she only manages to touch his sword before he immediately assumes her feelings, and she gets no word in, just a helpless, frozen face as he says goodbye.

During the Water Tribe arc, she merely gives him looks and mumbles of mistrust that he dispels, even then, she never crashes out at him directly. In fact the one she screams at is LILI, not Su-Won.

It's a rare moment of Yona getting angered by Lili's obliviousness. Yet the next moment, she's suppressed her anger into something palatable: "I'm really fine", when she's obviously not.

Yes, Yona is resentful of Su-Won, but she is always left unable to truly crash out at him.

By the time Yona is able to move forward from the cycle and decides to face Su-Won without hatred and fear, she is assertive, daring, and cool-headed.

But the one thing she is never allowed to be towards him is angry.

In the initial castle arc, when Su-Won says that she can move her seat if made uncomfortable, she doesn't respond with anger. But neither does she look at him.

And then, more strikingly later on, when Hak was missing in the flood, at first, Yona doesn't face Su-Won and deflects her true emotions:

However, when Su-Won decides to comfort her all of a sudden, the resentment that we all thought Yona had surpassed came flooding back.

The rage is in her face. She thinks, "STOP. We are NOT friends."

But does she tell him this, despite feeling that? No. Instead, she deflects, and shows a weak side to herself:

This is the problem.

Hak is allowed to show his angry face at Su-Won. He is allowed to scream at him.

But Yona is not.

Let's think about why. Perhaps, since Yona is the one who has to play politics and be diplomatic, she's suppressing her true emotions. But I think, especially in the earlier stages, there is fear too. Fear that Su-Won will not respond well to her anger. That there will be consequences.

This is what I would expect from a ruler

This is the queen #mytruth

Ready to sacrifice her life for a friend

She's resilient, recovers quickly no matter how affected

You don't have to, there's a perfect solution

Like will she be the next Water Tribe general? Will she join the royal family by marrying Su-Won? Like what does she intend?

But no. First she was sent to the capital by her father, then it seemed that she didn't want to leave herself. She was the ONLY person uniquely tied to Soowon (with sus romance implications) from since they met. She seemed to be as a bridge between Soowon and Hak/Yona. Plus she took the previously super important hairpin. All for nothing.

Something was clearly started but never ended. Like it’s an insanely badly written loose end that I absolutely can’t ignore.

And Soo-won? Is he going to stay alone working as a slave to Yona until he dies, is that it? Will Lili just marry a no name farmer like Historia from aot or what? Bleh

As of now, her character hasn't been resolved at all.

Being Water Tribe general is cool, but there was no foreshadowing towards her even aiming for this. But who knows. Maybe that's what will happen during the time skip. Or what, will she just continue staying in the capital with Yona and Su-Won, doing nothing else?

She was intended to be caught up between the trio drama, so she was brought to the capital. Imo involving her in the drama was actually good for her character. Until it became defined by interacting with Su-Won and nothing else. Why was she reduced to his implied love interest, especially when nothing comes of it?

She never actually like, did anything else in the story besides helping some civilians in the capital. She went from best written female character besides Yona to complete blegh.

If the series actually had a proper war arc, I'd have loved to see Lili train herself to become a general.

she took the previously super important hairpin. All for nothing. Something was clearly started but never ended. Like it’s an insanely badly written loose end that I absolutely can’t ignore.

THIS. For everyone defending the ending, WHY is there like almost none of them mentioning how the hairpin was never brought up? How if it going to be brought up, it will be as a rushed cameo out of nowhere, with no proper buildup or payoff?

And Soo-won? Is he going to stay alone working as a slave to Yona until he dies, is that it?

Call me crazy, but ngl I am concerned that making Su-Won's Yona advisor is setting the stage for him to be her tragic cripped simp in the Gaiden.

I am really hoping it doesn't go there, but think about it. Su-Won has his whole life ahead, yet he's in such a bad state mentally that he's convinced he can't justify ruling because it was all apparently "revenge and personal vendetta"; he doesn't even think his desire to protect Kouka was legitimate anymore. He stepped down for Yona's sake, barely interacted with Lili, and now will be holed up 24/7 in Hiryuu Castle near Yona constantly, devoting himself to advising, protecting, watching her grow. If there's a timeskip where Yona turns into this badass, mature war queen strategist with long beautiful red hair or some shit, he might get all swoony and develop romantic feelings, who knows....

So if he's working overtime for Yona's rise, where is the space for Lili? We've had zero actual interactions between them for arcs. Lili doesn't know much about him, and has shown zero genuine worry—no scene where she found about his illness or his past, no scene where she showed him any special attention, nothing. Meanwhile Su-Won is discussing his mother's memoir with Yona, who remains the only woman near his age that he's actually shown emotional attachment to. Yes, Su-Won obviously cared for Lili to an extent, enjoyed having some idle chats with her here and there, but that's basically a casual friendship, not emotional attachment.

Or maybe Lili will still somehow develop feelings for Su-Won, though who even knows how that that will happen without any proper moments. And maybe we'll get a rushed cameo where she will be one-sidedly pining after him, while he isn't giving a fuck, because he's too busy being secretly in love with Yona who is married to Hak. What better way to shove in a rushed, random love triangle than this?

And yes, the hairpin plot never went anywhere. That already is horrid. But imagine if it does magically resurface during the Gaiden chapter. If the above simp scenario is what happens, the hairpin then could be used to stir up love triangle drama.... worst part is, this would be so rushed and badly integrated......

Will Lili just marry a no name farmer like Historia from aot or what? Bleh

Well she did love her clan and fought for it at the beginning so technically her becoming general was possible…though she can’t fight at all, can she? How can she ever even be a general? Aren’t they supposed to be warriors?

And like I said…if she was only all about ruling the water tribe…why the hell did she stay in the palace when it didn’t serve any purpose though it was very openly supposed to, since she got close to Soo-won, learned about his life and other friends, took the hairpin and was subject to nonstop marriage jokes with him? I don’t know I’m so frustrated.

She was intended to be caught up between the trio drama, so she was brought to the capital.

It was something like…so obvious to me that I still can’t believe we got none of that. I’m appalled.

For everyone defending the ending, WHY is there like almost none of them mentioning how the hairpin was never brought up?

The ones who defend the ending are probably the same people who are speculating if Hak and Yona had sex behind the curtain, and only wish for a wedding in the gaiden. For their two brain cells that’s enough.

Call me crazy, but ngl I am concerned that making Su-Won's Yona advisor is setting the stage for him to be her tragic cripped simp in the Gaiden.

Don’t say that please🥲 But to be honest I have the exact fearful suspicion. Maybe the hairpin will be brought up next chapter briefly only for Soo-won to confess to Hak that he in fact was secretly in love with Yona this whole time but didn’t act because he knew Hak was into her or something. Fuck it pains me to even write this but after the horrible final chapter I won’t be surprised to see this in the one gaiden left.

And then Soo-won will become yet another tragic Yona simp, serving her and sadly looking at their happiness with Hak. Or we’ll find out he’s in fact super gay for Hak.

Wait a second I’ll go set myself on fire.

So if he's working overtime for Yona's rise, where is the space for Lili? We've had zero actual interactions between them for arcs. Lili doesn't know much about him, and has shown zero genuine worry—no scene where she found about his illness or his past, no scene where she showed him any special attention, nothing.

Yeah exactly. Though you know that time they met when he ran to save Hak and Yona she did show worry for him when he almost got crushed. And said something like I waited for you and Keishuk said ‘there is no time for stuff like this now’. I thought it was kinda coded but then she didn’t give a shit about him dead on the floor and never even visited him, like when he visited her after Sei. Ugh.

I’m telling you the author got possessed like the dragon gods and she forgot what she was writing about. It was a representation of herself there.

BRUHH. HISTORIA. ONE OF THE WORST ENDINGS TO A CHARACTER. If Lili marries a random idiot and Su-Won becomes a Yona simp ISTG—

Good point. I was just wondering how else her leadership abilities could be utilized in the story. I really didn't want to see that go to waste, but unfortunately it kinda has. She's definitely not going to be a queen now.

since she got close to Soo-won, learned about his life and other friends, took the hairpin and was subject to nonstop marriage jokes with him

A good chunk of the fandom thinks they are just friends, but the entire situation of Lili going to the palace was just a prime way to set up a potential romance with him down the line. It didn't have to be immediate, but come on. Objectively, why else was she brought there?

It was something like…so obvious to me that I still can’t believe we got none of that. I’m appalled.

I really wanted scenes of Lili standing between the trio, trying to mediate. Chapters of her working with them during the final arc(s). Never happened. Maybe in the Gaiden chapter? But of course, rushed and bad.

Maybe the hairpin will be brought up next chapter briefly only for Soo-won to confess to Hak that he in fact was secretly in love with Yona this whole time but didn’t act because he knew Hak was into her or something.

Bruh, it's actually heading there, isn't it. Su-Won and Hak haven't had their final chat yet, and Hak wondered why Su-Won gave Yona the hairpin. I can see it. Before or after the wedding, Su-Won confessing to Hak that he also fell in love with Yona, but couldn't act on it and kept it secret because he knew Hak had a thing for Yona and Il's master plan was always to get Yona to marry Hak.

After all, Hak doesn't know Il's motives, and Yona never communicates the important things, so what better person but Su-Won to tell him this? And then Su-Won is going to cry, leaning on Hak's shoulder and asking him once again to protect Yona and her happiness. Hak will tear up too, and they will hug it out, finally understanding each other. Yona will remain clueless forever. 1000/10 writing. Goddammit.

And then Soo-won will become yet another tragic Yona simp, serving her and sadly looking at their happiness with Hak.

LMAOOO, yepp. Su-Won suffering inside watching Hak and Yona flirting, but working overtime like a simp because god forbid he let his secret feelings slip and ruin "her happiness". 🤦‍♀️

Kusanagi really couldn't leave it at the dragons, Tae-Jun and Hak, could she? Because clearly, the story is missing characters that head in heels in love with Yona. 🙄

Look I know that Yona once had wanted Su-Won's heart more than anything, and like, if most of the male characters HADN'T been her servants and the writing had actually been more nuanced and realistic, I'd understand if Kusanagi wanted to make Su-Won catch some feelings back at some point.

But nope, the lack of foresight and care in writing that kind of event is so clear... it's just horrible lol.

Or we’ll find out he’s in fact super gay for Hak.

LMAO. That would be a hilarious twist. It's not like the Su-Won falling for Hak idea is absolute shit with all those gay af moments—but the way it's being done, in a random extra chapter...... I can't with how bad this would be.

But who even knows anymore. Maybe Su-Won's mysterious words to Hak in chapter 242 were "I love you". We never even got an answer to what the fuck that was all about smh.

but then she didn’t give a shit about him dead on the floor and never even visited him, like when he visited her after Sei. Ugh.

This is why I thought she’d be queen. Who else could she be? Generals are clearly warriors in their realm, Lili is not. Yona could’ve very well become a general with training like Mei-nyan, that would’ve been waaaay more epic than her being a fragile queen.

This is the official character relationship map from a fan book that says Soo-won was evaluating Lili’s abilities to take action. Why would he do that if she wasn’t supposed to become queen? Lili is “interested”. Plus they’re very close to each other like Yona with Hak, why if they didn’t become neither besties nor lovers?

A good chunk of the fandom thinks they are just friends

They didn’t become even that in the end, not that much. Idk the author might stick something into the gaiden since she did say there are things she simply couldn’t fit in. But to be real, in one chapter? To fit Yona Hak love, wedding or marriage life, a talk between Hak and Soo-won, the hairpin, Lili and Soo-won stuff, politics, the trio dynamics, the dragons and Yun’s fates? Impossible really. Only if we had a whole new volume. So I’m preparing for the worst, for some stupidity tbh.

It’s unbelievable to me that she decided to write the relationship of Mei and Val, characters that no one cares about, instead of Soo-won and Lili. What was going on in her head really?

Kusanagi really couldn't leave it at the dragons, Tae-Jun and Hak, could she? Because clearly, the story is missing characters that head in heels in love with Yona.

Listen I do hope it’s not really going to happen, for now I’m joking. But like I said the last chapter shook me hard so now I’ll believe in any potential ridiculous shit the author can write. Because she showed that she can.

I’ll burn the books I have if this is true and erase this story from my memory, because it’s some kind of torture.

I’m also lowkey pissed that no one is in love with Lili. Lili is an icon that slays in looks and wit no less than Yona wdym she has no admirers? Like idk it makes so much sense for it to be Soo-won and for him to be loved by Lili. Because who else is there? They looked like they were meant for each other from the start, so it’s either they end up married or they are both lonely which is idiotic, which is more than likely lol.

LMAO. That would be a hilarious twist. It's not like the Su-Won falling for Hak idea is absolute shit with all those gay af moments—but the way it's being done, in a random extra chapter

Omg. Damn. Imagine Yona as Judo's successor, as Sky Tribe general + a royal. That indeed would be epic, makes a lot more sense. I suppose the only issue would be what Hak would do, but hey, the Kai Empire had like eight generals. Both of them could be generals, and at least that way, they'd be basically equals, and we wouldn't be getting any Jon Snow "you are my queen" nonsense from Hak.

But to be real, in one chapter? To fit Yona Hak love, wedding or marriage life, a talk between Hak and Soo-won, the hairpin, Lili and Soo-won stuff, politics, the trio dynamics, the dragons and Yun’s fates? Impossible really. Only if we had a whole new volume. So I’m preparing for the worst, for some stupidity tbh.

Yeah there is no way that much stuff can be fit in. The focus can only be on one or two things. Since Hak and Jae-ha were talking about the wedding last chapter, that seems to be the most likely event.

I am also preparing myself for stupidity and character assassinations.

They didn’t become even that in the end, not that much.

You're right... we needed at least a really emotionally convincing moment between them during the last 100 chapters (e.g. Lili finding out about his illness) for that to deepen into friendship, which never happened...

And if they do end up together magically in a timeskip, great, but I still don't like how rushed this is. "Yep, they married, everyone". TF?? Show us how!!

It’s unbelievable to me that she decided to write the relationship of Mei and Val, characters that no one cares about, instead of Soo-won and Lili. What was going on in her head really?

Mei... this character is just LMAO. She was a Hiryuu clan descendant, but from the Kai Empire for some... reason?? If the author cared about the worldbuilding, we'd get actual answers for this. But no. She's just there to get nearly killed by Su-Won, then used as romance bait with Val and Chagol.

I really think chapter 200 or so was the time that Lili should have started making reappearances. Much more compelling to read about.

I’m also lowkey pissed that no one is in love with Lili. Lili is an icon that slays in looks and wit no less than Yona wdym she has no admirers?

Seriously. She's obviously super pretty. Make a guy or two fall in love with her! Ngl it would have been interesting if Lili had ended up in a political engagement to Su-Won sometime before the dragon-Kouka alliance happened—after all, Su-Won was constantly getting proposals before getting the throne, right? Also I wonder how the HHB would have dealt with that. Could have been some compelling drama. But nope.

Listen I do hope it’s not really going to happen, for now I’m joking. But like I said the last chapter shook me hard so now I’ll believe in any potential ridiculous shit the author can write Tbh I don’t know why would the author put a love line for Soo-won that is clearly one-sided, be it Yona or Hak. What’s the point to reveal this in the last chapter?

Agreed. I have no clue what will happen at the end of the day, but considering how many random things happened out of the blue this arc, idek. And I am worried.

I think the biggest issue I'd have if this actually happened is that it would be shoved in as not even a final chapter, but as an extra side story chapter. It would be hilariously bad. And things are already hilariously bad.

General Yona sounds epic. Wasn’t this what she was training for? On the other hand I remember how Yona was in awe of Kouren, who was both queen and a great fighter. Maybe Yona will still continue training and sword sparring since a Kouren-like queen is her aim.

Yeah there is no way that much stuff can be fit in. The focus can only be on one or two things.

Yeah most likely. I really can’t even imagine what she wants to stick in there tbf. She took 2.5 months off though to finish it off so I wonder what will come to her mind and how long it will be. Still I don’t understand why wouldn’t she just write multiple chapters, it would’ve been so much better.

we needed at least a really emotionally convincing moment between them during the last 100 chapters. And if they do end up together magically in a timeskip, great, but I still don't like how rushed this is.

Yeah that’s why I’m pissed about Val and Mei. They had chapters dedicated to their stupid, pointless love, while Soo-won is maximum getting an endgame relationship (or one-sided simping for Hak lmao).

But we know the ending was rushed and the last arc was only about the trio’s friendship revival so there was no place for Lili ig. In the final chapter not even Hak and Yona got much screen time, it was mainly about Soo-won & Yona talk and Yona’s coronation. So maybe the more emotional stuff could be left for the gaiden, like the author said it’s more a second part of the final than a side story because she simply couldn’t fit it in.

I just can’t believe Lili disappeared with the hairpin, I won’t ever shut up about it ig. It’s way too relevant to not come back and get a closure.

And bruh. Soo-won once told Lili that as a king he won’t marry her because there is no benefit. Now he is not the king and he embraced feelings back in his life. He admires her, while she is interested in him, that was their relationship in short, plus romantic hints. Idk, it’s only up to the author now, I don’t know what she wants of this.

I once said it and still think so. I always thought that the story would end with Hak and Yona starting a family, and Soo-won with Lili. Both pairs would have children, and these children would be friends just like Soo-won, Hak and Yona once were. But unlike the past generation, there is no conflict or cycle of revenge so their children won’t have to suffer like they once did. Rainbow and sunshine. The end.

I don’t know what’s more powerful than this, given that burdens and hatred passed from parents to children was a huge theme in this manga. That’s the idea I got after reading Yon-hi’s diary at least.

Mei... this character is just LMAO. She was a Hiryuu clan descendant, but from the Kai Empire for some... reason??

I don’t even remember much about her, just that she is a victim of abuse/female general, her storyline was absolutely pointless. There was no use of her, only to be bait for Yona to appear in Chagol’s lair. Chess piece.