GRAYSON

This may probably be controversial in some ways, but still-

I think one of the reasons I'm rarely able to get along with Jason fans is because of the perception they have of both Jason and Dick, especially from their time as Robin.

It's like, almost always (obviously not everyone is like that) I see that they want to impose the idea of Dick being the Robin with anger issues, and Jason being the cute and sweet Robin.

Okay, there are comics where Dick isn't the sweetest, now for example in the new comics, he's a brat. Okay, yeah.

He wasn't always like this, in fact, Dick IS generally Bruce's light. That's supposed to represent Dick Grayson's character, Robin, for Bruce Wayne, for Batman. Be the light of his darkness, the hope of his fear.

Superman: American Alien #4

This is the best phrase that describes what Dick's presence meant in Bruce's life.

People forget, but Dick was the reason Bruce changed, the reason he stopped being just a vigilante and started being a hero. Not because he didn't want to save people before... But because it kept him from getting lost in the darkness and seeing the light in humanity again.

Now, regarding Dick being a violent Robin... Did you only read All Stars? Because Dick was never the bloodthirsty kid they made him out to be. He wanted justice for his parents, and yes, there are runs that show us he was filled with rage, but it's because he was a grieving child, and he channeled that anger even when he was so young. In the first comics he didn't even want to look for Zucco at the beginning, he just wanted to run away, to be free. And he didn't want to kill Zucco; he wanted him to pay for his crimes. He himself says he didn't want him dead, because that wouldn't bring his parents back to life.

Now, going with Jason, people forget that the first interpretation of Jason was basically Dick Grayson with another name, so if you're going to say that Jason was a happy and sweet child, then you have to accept that Dick was too.

"But Dick changed in the following comics", yeah, so Jason did as well. He became much more rebellious and impulsive, not bad, but with a more notable fighting spirit.

You can't just highlight one's change and then ignore the other's.

It's okay to prefer one version over the other, if you like the adorable Jason, perfect! But you can't say he was the only one like that, or say that he alone was light, when to begin with, that light was lit by Dick Grayson with his presence.

To say that Bruce only accepted Jason is... Well... Let's just say Bruce only took Jason in because he missed Dick.

Batman #416

People forget, but the reason Bruce adopted Dick isn't just because he was a disgraced child, he will have seen and helped many children doing his job as Batman... No, he took Dick in because he saw himself, Bruce Wayne, reflected in that child.

If he had seen Jason first, he would have helped him, yes, but without Dick's influence on his life... It's hard to say if things would have turned out the way they did.

Like, I get it. Jason only had about 5–7 years as Robin publication-wise, and for part of that time he was basically a Dick Grayson clone . there’s not a whole lot of unique characterization to work with and I understand fans clinging to whatever scraps they can. But let’s be all the way effing for real about Dick Grayson.

I typically avoid these posts like the plague but I’ll bite and answer your question as if it’s being asked in good faith.

It’s extremely rare to see female POCs in fantasy. Even rarer for those characters not to be enslaved, maids or motherly figures. There’s no nuance, no complexity. Fire and Blood isnt great imo but for some, Nettles is the first/only smart, resourceful female POC in popular high fantasy. And she’s cool enough to be a freaking DRAGON rider. For you she was forgettable, for others she’s a rarity we wanted to see adapted to television.

There’s also those who want her included because she IS important to the plot. Her relationship with Daemon (which I do believe is platonic so I’ll ignore the grooming stuff) exacerbates Rhaneyras paranoia and rage which would be entertaining to see. I truly believe shipping culture and Team Black/Team Green brain rot has made people forget that some of us just want to watch a compelling story. The actors would slay this storyline, we want to see it.

Interesting enough, plenty of male characters from the book who’ve done nothing for the plot appear in the show but I’ve seen almost no posts calling for the justification for their inclusion which is just so predictable.

Bruce is not a “good dad” or even a dad at all in many canons. You’re free to only enjoy content where he is a wholesome good dad but it’s not “bad writing” or “out of character” every time Bruce hits one of the Batkids or says something insensitive or generally is an asshole. Bruce is a severely traumatized man who has centered his life around his rage and desire for vengeance which has also isolated him from most meaningful relationships, he’s not going to suddenly have the emotional maturity and interpersonal skills to be a doting, perfect father figure. There are definitely writers who take it way too far like Tom King’s obsession with Bruce torturing the Robins and only caring about Selina. Or writers who portray him as not caring about Jason or even hating him when Jason’s death literally was the most impactful in his life other than his parents.

But Bruce is often far from an ideal father-figure even when he’s well-written and in character especially to Dick and Jason, I would argue he really wasn’t even that fatherly to them - he treated them more like his bros because Bruce is a case of arrested development, he was not much more mature than Dick and Jason until Jason’s death forced him to grow up and reevaluate. Exploring Bruce’s complexity and greyness in context of how his actions affect those around him doesn’t make someone a bad fan, it’s in fact more based in the text that the overly fluffy big happy bat family (which is again fine to enjoy, but I’m sick of the superiority complex like anyone who likes anything darker and more complex than that is not “pure” 🙄).