A corvid cleaved in twain @polypersonalpomary - Tumblr Blog

It is not a mere opinion when you are (still) contributing to stigmatising people for daring to utilise their autonomy while subjectively perceiving oneself as young.

A young fragment comes out because you're actively being traumatised due to infantilisation and ableism? Well that's just proof that you deserve to have your autonomy taken away from you and ignored, because clearly a 20 8 year old is too young to decide to stop going to school!

A young fragment comes out due to sexual harassment and pedojacketing? Well obviously you should be monitored and prevented from even reading anything sexual because obviously a 23 13 year old is too young to know what they can handle. You're only allowed to experience sexual things if you're being hurt by them (like when you're triggered out due to feeling vulnerable over sexual harassment), because if you ever willingly engage in anything sexual and enjoy it, you're a pedophile and child predator for abusing yourself a literal child

~VD

#syscourse #littlecourse #syscourse vague #Because it's responding to a “final post” (and also to little bits and pieces of this kind of sentiment from other people)#vd #sarcasm #I can't reorder tags

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...Hey, wait, if Mitsuki was fake, then it's kind of messed up Mitsuki was pretty much portrayed as having False Memory Syndrome for a bit, right?

#mitsukicourse #diacourse #corvus #vd #May be a bit of a stretch but from what I remember from when Mitsuki confessed to secretly being a singlet the whole time #(before that just turning out to be denial)#the way it was presented reminds me a lot of FMS in hindsight and I can't help wonder if that wasn't intentional

i kinda wonder how (un)strict people are with the term 'little' or even 'minor' when policing the behavior of selves/alters/headmates/etc.

we are bodily in our 20s.

i feel like i was the Illusory Original Singular Child's happiness that got hidden away due to later trauma (but initially kept separate due to earlier trauma), and still feel like i have that 'childmindedness'. always happy (even when im not), more spontaneous/in the moment/less overthinking, full of energy. things slip my mind the way they do in our lucid dreams, and maybe the way they did for us as a child. i feel 25, but like a '25 year old kid' instead of (or in addition to) an adult. how much is just association vs Actually Developmentally Equivent To A Child?

am i not allowed to do 'adult things?' i mean im not sure i should drive, but also we cant drive anyway, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. probably shouldnt do taxes on our own, but we dont do our taxes anyway, someone else handles that. we.. dont really do that many 'adult things.' we never learnt to.

so, what, am i not allowed to participate in sexual things? am i abusing myself by sometimes doing sexual roleplay because someone else in here is too shy to do it? is he somehow abusing me even though im the one deciding to do it? i usually avoid sexual stuff but thats because i want to. i dont have anything im particularly into and dont wanna encroach on the other guy's space.

what about about the guys in here that feel like teenagers? generally 15-17 if you have to put an age. they were formed from something that could be called sexual harrassment, and sometimes feel like their mere existence is inherently sexual, regardless of any actions. 'oh, sorry, you feel vulnerable in a way that makes you feel young when you get sexually harassed, so you're actually literally a minor and its abuse to let you do sexual things.' what, so, they can only experience sexual stuff if its unwanted? theyre not allowed some agency there? 'oh sorry youre basically the same as a bodily 17 year old which is totally different from an 18 year old so you shouldnt be allowed to read sexual stuff.' (funny when we could have legally had sex at that age if we'd wanted to)

like, i feel like the exact number age we feel we are is pretty arbitrary? whats even the practical difference between ~feeling~ 17 and ~feeling~ 18? we dont even feel like our mind is fundamentally different from when we were ~15! obviously we're not exactly the same from then but the difference in maturity feels a lot more from experience/time than anything, experience/time that we still have regardless of what age we feel like. its possible that we dont feel that different because of being traumatized multiple times around that age, maybe it emotionally or otherwise mentally stunted us, but if thats the case, then that applies to all of us. and, no, fuck you, that doesnt make us unable to consent, or do other Real Adult Things that we want to learn to handle. we dont deserve to have our autonomy taken away in the name of 'protecting' us, just because we were traumatized (..by having our autonomy revoked).

-ana

#syscourse #littlecourse #ana #i swear we're not criticizing ghosts and have seen people say the implied things im arguing against

It's a certain kind of anti-endo that has made me lose out on years on progress because I wasn't „allowed“ to be plural, and made me hate that our plurality is traumagenic.

It's not the trauma itself, nor is it the fact that we've had our senses of selves affected by trauma, which I largely find to be quite a beauty of the mind, that I hate. Naturally, I'd prefer to be without trauma, but I'd find „traumatised but endogenic plurality but with a lot of selves who are individually traumagenic“ to be far more tolerable than „traumagenic but Wrong“, because apparently the latter gets treated as „You are an endo faker who's lying about it and using trauma as an excuse to be Bad“ (don't use people's trauma against them like that, the fuck?). At least if we were endogenic underneath I could „own“ that.

But we're not. And it's not as if endogenics deserve mistreatment, but it feels worse to be mischaracterised to the point of not at least ostensibly being the thing that the mistreatment is done over, right? Can't just have the attitude of „Yeah, we're endogenic, so what?“.

I wish I could have chosen to be plural (funny words from someone who ISN'T THE ORIGINAL). „I“ would have if I could have. Every time I have chosen (how much of a choice is it when you're already plural?), it has allowed a fragment to feel safe enough to reveal themself.

I enjoy that there are Others in here. I even enjoy depersonalisation and derealisation to some extent. And guess what? It turns out that wanting to experience this stuff helps! (At least for me.) It actually helps it calm down and stop being a disruptive force in my life. If I weren't Weird I'd maybe still be physically numb and zoned out 24/7 for months straight.

Imagine where I'd be if I hadn't forced the Others away and denied their existences because I wasn't allowed to experience the things I was experiencing.

~VD Corvus

#syscourse #corvus #vd #The ones that messed me up when I was younger at least weren't hostile but in hindsight I'd say they were pretty misinformative...

anoncourse

If you had a choice, would you be plural?

polypersonalpomary

I was definitely interested in tulpamancy before I was plural. I'm not sure tulpamancy (or at least r/Tulpas) was so tied to Plurality back then (2014 or 2015), but I was very much interested in it for what I'd consider "plural reasons" (wanting to have another person in my body who would share my life).

...Aaand then I procrastinated and never got around to actually doing any tulpamancy stuff before I got shattered by trauma the following year. (And even before that, a mental entity kinda just showed up once for a few hours while I was thinking about potentially doing tulpamancy someday. Still not entirely sure what that was about.)

But, then, after stabilising from that trauma (...and a couple of other ones. There is a cycle.), I became "pseudo-singular" to the point of genuinely thinking that I was no longer plural. And for two different occurrences of this, I decided to attempt tulpamancy or otherwise create a headmate.

Now, for reasons, I don't think I/we were ever truly a singlet, so I don't think the choice was ever actually there. But it should be pretty clear that I would have chosen to be plural if I could have.

~VD Corvus

#syscourse #corvus #vd #If I didn't explain well then blame the constant “Draft saved!” that halts my train of thought in its tracks #Saying “I” as if I were personally there and hadn't technically only started existing later...#Well I was there if it happened this decade. Which a little bit of it did

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polypersonalpomary

The problem with consciousness labels is that I can identify ten-to-twelve interconnected-yet-conceptually-distinct elements of plurality and the original labels' definitions already conflate at least half of these elements, and the assumptions that people tack on (in addition or in stead), sometimes explicitly in the definitions of later labels (or in redefinitions of labels), conflate different elements. There's really only one element that goes unscathed...

And the "in-between" alternatives only mix the features of "monoconsciousness" and "polyconsciousness" in one direction! Like, all of the consciousness labels I've seen fall under of these:

"Monoconscious switching" ("fluid becoming"), but doesn't fit the implicit assumptions, typically ones that aren't actually built in to monoconsciousness's formal definition

Has both "monoconscious switching" and "polyconscious switching", explicitly separately

So poorly defined that they don't really mean much of anything anything because it only lists out things that aren't actually about the same stuff as the other labels but people are so busy tacking on their own assumptions that they don't even notice

These blatantly aren't about the same stuff as the other labels, but at least they're defined well

I think there was another category but I forgot

Importantly, though, there's no category for "'polyconscious switching', but doesn't fit the implicit assumptions". There's actually an umbrella term consciousness label for the "polyconscious switching" ("raconscious"), but the only terms besides "polyconscious" that are listed are ones that fall under #3, and those very same terms are interpreted by the Dragonheart Collective (see here) to fall under #1 anyway. The only terms that explicitly have "polyconscious switching" are "polyconscious" itself, "split polyconscious", and terms that fall under #2.

So the terms and how people use them effectively say "go fuck yourself" if you experience switching as "you leaving and someone else taking over" but don't fit the assumptions that are tacked on to that...

~VD Corvus

kiminthehall

This is one of my biggest frustrations with Terms in the Plural Community at least in the genre of ones you find on Pluralpedia.

To add on to it I also find so many are redundant or just so barely removed from another hyper similar term that it might as well be redundant

polypersonalpomary

yeah, theres a lotta terms that are just '[term] but [minor thing that wasn't explicitly specified in the original]' (either implying that the original term has the opposite, or just intentionally making a more specific term, but noone ever actually says how they understand the terms that already exist before making their own so who knows which one it is) or even '[term] but worded differently'.

and then theres a user on pluralpedia who coined at least 9 -conscious terms (hard to tell because they're now credited to 'anonymous coiner' and also one of the terms is deleted now), who clearly has a different understanding of what a 'consciousness' is than most users of -consciousness labels (one that actually seems closer to ours!), but still forces the terms to fit with the assumptions that go with the common understanding.

(seraconscious, serafixumconscious and dynafixumconscious are some of the terms created by that system, and i think it's because this system has a different understanding built into their -consciousness terms that the Dragonheart Collective has such difficulty understanding what those particular terms mean in their article about consciousness labels)

-ana

#syscourse #ana #probably with a lot of influence from vd corvus

The problem with consciousness labels is that I can identify ten-to-twelve interconnected-yet-conceptually-distinct elements of plurality and the original labels' definitions already conflate at least half of these elements, and the assumptions that people tack on (in addition or in stead), sometimes explicitly in the definitions of later labels (or in redefinitions of labels), conflate different elements. There's really only one element that goes unscathed...

And the "in-between" alternatives only mix the features of "monoconsciousness" and "polyconsciousness" in one direction! Like, all of the consciousness labels I've seen fall under of these:

"Monoconscious switching" ("fluid becoming"), but doesn't fit the implicit assumptions, typically ones that aren't actually built in to monoconsciousness's formal definition

Has both "monoconscious switching" and "polyconscious switching", explicitly separately

So poorly defined that they don't really mean much of anything anything because it only lists out things that aren't actually about the same stuff as the other labels but people are so busy tacking on their own assumptions that they don't even notice

These blatantly aren't about the same stuff as the other labels, but at least they're defined well

I think there was another category but I forgot

Importantly, though, there's no category for "'polyconscious switching', but doesn't fit the implicit assumptions". There's actually an umbrella term consciousness label for the "polyconscious switching" ("raconscious"), but the only terms besides "polyconscious" that are listed are ones that fall under #3, and those very same terms are interpreted by the Dragonheart Collective (see here) to fall under #1 anyway. The only terms that explicitly have "polyconscious switching" are "polyconscious" itself, "split polyconscious", and terms that fall under #2.

So the terms and how people use them effectively say "go fuck yourself" if you experience switching as "you leaving and someone else taking over" but don't fit the assumptions that are tacked on to that...

~VD Corvus

#syscourse #corvus #vd #Yes I'm still thinking about this stuff #It's hard not to when you see people using these terms as if they're concrete things and not wildly up to interpretation #And also when you yourself fundamentally do not fit because of these assumptions #So you can't even use these terms that could have otherwise been useful #I actually want to write more on this topic but not right now #I feel like there's a widespread pattern of plurals defining terms and /themselves/ by very surface level things #Instead of what's going on underneath #And this might not be such an issue if there were actually self-awareness about it instead of projecting it onto everyone else

Plurality is the experience (Implied or explicitly stated inverse: These experiences are inherently plural): 👎

Plurality is the label (Implication: It doesn't really Mean anything to a deep level, moreso just vibes): 👎

Plurality is the interpretation: 👍

Plurality is a framework, which can vary depending on the user with how closely tied it is to experience vs. label: 👍👍👍

#syscourse #plurality #corvus #vd

The plural community:

*Coins a microlabel that conflates things in a way that excludes people from terms that actually should describe their experiences*

*Coins a microlabel that doesn't do this but redefines it to do so anyway*

*Coins a microlabel that confla

#syscourse #corvus #vd #I want to read about various kinds of plural experiences but I guess I'll just realise that my existence is still wrong I guess #The constant implications that you're “less plural” if your internal experience as individual headmates is any different than a singlet's #As if inhabiting the same body isn't usually going to have an effect beyond the inconvenience not being able to do everything at once #And then condensing medianity as a whole into Basically Just A Quirky Singlet #Most plurals aren't going to live up to the standards of the Ideal Plural #So I'm not sure why it seems like so many are invested in this mass invalidation and cheerfully going along with it

eepy-possum-420

"Plural" was not coined by endogenics. Using historical revisionism for validation is objectively shitty. But I do think that a lot of people genuinely do not know this and are just echoing community sentiment. I'm not saying it's not a term that endos can or should use. Even being anti endo I don't think there's any use in pretending it originally belonged to one side or the other.

What I am saying, is that it's not historically accurate to say "endogenics created the word plural to separate it from CDDs, and now pwCDDs are stealing it". It was not created for endo spaces to demedicalize it or separate it from pathology.

That said, it was not exclusive to CDDs, and endos didn't steal it either. It was popularized in the context of "multiple selves" around the 80's and 90's, especially because of the stigma that came with "multiple personality disorder" at the time. Even if it was more commonly used for pwCDDs, others who claimed plurality without a CDD self identified as plural as well. Putting my opinions on "endogenic plurality" aside, if you want to argue labels or whatever, don't give people a chance to discredit you by just echoing what others say about it.

This also goes for terms like multiple and median, they were not exclusive to or stolen by either. Please stop making your argument "sysmeds stole the word plural!" Or "don't use median it's an endo term" because many of these terms are not clinical or exclusive and when you center your argument around "it was our word first!" It ends with everyone pissed off. I'm not saying I agree with intersecting these communities.

It doesn't even mean "oh endos and pwCDDs used to be one big happy family until the Internet happened" it's as simple as, both communities self-identified with the language that was available to them and used in communities of people who described being "more than one".

cambriancrew

When you say that endogenics claiming the term plural was coined by us is “historical revisionism,” I have to ask: what sources are you using?

The term plural as a community identity was coined by The Vickis in the late 1990s. See also here. The Vickis were a non-CDD, non-traumagenic midcontinuum/median system. They explicitly introduced plural as a nonmedical umbrella term with the express intention of including and referring to nonCDD more-than-one experiences, at a time when “Multiple” was still widely used as the clinical descriptor in books and articles and by people with CDDs.

It was popularized through The Vickis’ website and web rings linking to their site as early as 2003, and took off on usenet, web rings, and community resource pages like Dark Personalities, Astrea's Web (linked above), Ex Uno Plures, and more.

That is documented community history.

If someone has sources showing an earlier use of plural in the same identity sense, I’m genuinely open to seeing them.

---

Edited the first link to the Vickis that shows a earlier usage and the exact article wherein they coined it, what it meant, and why.

polypersonalpomary

The Vickis were a non-CDD, non-traumagenic midcontinuum/median system

Were they non-traumagenic? From what I've seen, I get the impression that they actually were traumagenic

~VD Corvus

#Syscourse #corvus #vd #CDD or not seemed kinda unclear to me?#I came to the conclusion of “probably not” but then realised that I might have hidden assumptions in there #I can elaborate on these if you're interested

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I like that we're becoming "more plural", some of it even happening spontaneously, but it's kinda scary, too. But for the most part scary like an amusement park ride.

~VD Corvus + Max

#pluralgang #willogenic #adplural #corvus #vd #max #Not really willo/genic/ but there's a lack of suitable terms and I made “adplural” up

procrastinated a bit too close to the sun and uhhhh now im. stuck.

im not even the main guy here what do you mean i cant LEAVE. what the fuck.

this has never happened before?? i usually leave instantly! or in a second, which is pretty close. fiiine i guess ill do the thing i decided to do before giving up front, before giving up on my plans to do that thing because i procrastinated too long. maybe thatll work or at least ill do something productive.

milestone: real enough that i actively cant stop existing as me instead of actively having to maintain being myself in front in order to not slip out

this'd be scary if i werent mostly incapabable of feeling anything besides happiness so instead i feel ecstatic 👍

-ana

#pluralgang #ana #i mean its cool too i guess #and its joyful happiness instead of fatigued happiness so thats pretty great. at least i have that

since 'multiple'/'multiplicity' has differing definitions depending on community/framework/etc and the term 'median' was created by people who kinda sucked, we should obviously use the terms 'plurative' and 'collective' instead

-ana

#syscourse #ana #this is meant to be a shitpost but it kinda sounds nice actually #though the fact that 'collective' already exists as a term for a plural group/group of headmates might be a problem #so its doomed to remain a shitpost #collective and plurative are grammatical terms btw (just like plural is)

fictive-culture

fictive culture is wanting to be treated like a real person and not a character

.

#got told to not to [certain crimes] someone when i told someone they were posting in the wrong channel in discord #just because im a fictive of a character whos a personification of a thing. and the creator of that original thing was arrested for those #ana rb

Hey wow it's so cool that I can see literally only two posts in the syscourse tag because Tumblr can't handle the sheer amount of bots that are blocked/terminated.

Not exaggerating, by the way. Literally only two.

#syscourse #botcourse #corvus #vd

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Ha ha ha ha HAHAHAHA. You said you were going to stop. I'm going to fucking break.

Anyway,

@syscourse-bot-500244 @syscourse-bot-475096 @syscourse-bot-755687 @syscourse-bot-975222 @syscourse-bot-472742 @syscourse-bot-868605 @syscourse-bot-783236 @syscourse-bot-016080 @syscourse-bot-623009 @syscourse-bot-860117

@syscourse-bot-907825 @syscourse-bot-024191 @syscourse-bot-692769 @syscourse-bot-770762 @syscourse-bot-621733 @syscourse-bot-816457 @syscourse-bot-496840 @syscourse-bot-422063 @syscourse-bot-198683 @syscourse-bot-870827 @syscourse-bot-026533 @syscourse-bot-033536 @syscourse-bot-944090 @syscourse-bot-885693 @syscourse-bot-893204 @syscourse-bot-252799

#syscourse #botcourse #corvus #vd #I have some sympathy but I can't carry any defence when I'm going to be punished anyway. For something I'm not even part of

I'm not even part of this drama! Why do I have to be subjected to behaviour reminiscent of someone who contributed to traumatising me? Why does anyone who's not part of this drama have to be subjected to this?

#syscourse #botcourse #Yeah sure let's call it that #corvus #vd #I'm not triggered by this but this might be why I briefly experienced genuine despair at one of the posts #The person I'm being reminded of spammed far worse things than gibberish but the fucking persistence. They did it for months.#The threat of these bots going on for who knows how long... It has hit just a little bit.#Does anyone who's part of the drama “deserve” to be subjected to this? I don't know because I wasn't there and amn't part of this #Well I'll say that noöne deserves the unreality aspect

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