Looking through a one-way mirror

Odin may have erased Hela and glorified/painted their past as more justified and peaceful than it was on Asgard but we're not shown him doing this to the other realms. for all we know he simply abandoned places like midgard because muspelheim and jotunheim still know Odin and hold grudges.

How to explain that specifically taking and raising Loki, Jotun, in a place that is explicitly xenophobic towards Jotuns would specifically be a specific thing pertaining to Loki which is a huge central thing shown in Thor 1 without calling you an idiot. Because it's not Thor's reaction to the lies that is important in Thor 3 even at the "end" of his "arc" in that film where he "realizes" the "truth" of their "history". But in Thor 1 Loki's is. It's a huge deal because it is literally King Laufey of Jotunheim, Loki's apparent biological father, that is the co-antagonist of the film and it is finding out he was not just adopted and lied to but was taken a political pawn and lost this use after finding out this fact, that drives the plot forward.

Thor is not shown finding out this truth. The other realms are not shown finding out any supposed truth about any supposed made-up history (I really doubt Odin cared to spread propaganda past Vanaheim tbh, but whatever).

Thor is not given false hope or misconceptions in gaining Asgard's throne because it is to be given to him. Thor has the support of loyal friends who will commit treason and die to save him. Thor, though also abused, was on the other end of things, where we're shown he is adored and given attention and is confident in his reckless decisions. Thor at the start of Thor 1 is loud and arrogant and brash and admittedly stupid in the immature way but part of that involves speaking over his brother in a way that wouldn't be short of abusive itself if it was long-standing, while Loki isn't shown arguing back or defending himself but shutting down and literally sinking into shadows until the vault scene where he finds out the truth of where he came from.

And Loki, admittedly, isn't stupid. He finds out he's Jotun, that confirms he was taken at the end of the war, just like the Casket was. He asks why he was taken and upon being told he was an innocent child immediately knows that is not it. Knee-deep in Jotun blood, 'peaceful relations' are hardly that even now. He finds out he was adopted, he asks what purpose it was for. And he's right in saying there is one. He's constantly right about worst-case scenarios. (Compare that to Thor who is being dragged the opposite direction into calling Odin a wise king and superspendicular father. Because they were both abused, but Loki is the one who now must see himself as the monster that parents tell their children about at night.

"It all makes sense now. Why you favored Thor all these years."

And sure, don't take his word on this, it's his POV of things, of course it's skewed. Except he has yet to be wrong. Except Thor is the one shown with a weapon from the vault. Except Thor is the one who was chosen to be King. Except we see how Loki is treated and we see how he reacts.

Regardless, Loki feels, knows, that he was not treated equally to Thor, and if he was given the same opportunities he does not feel he was favoured the same way.

"Because no matter how much you claim to love me, you could never have a Frost Giant sitting on the Throne of Asgard!"

Whether or not objective (again, it's Loki's POV, it's how he sees things, and Loki is GOOD at seeing things) the line expresses his opinion on the entire matter. I don't call it apologism to say that he was hurt and reacted. Since that's. Literally what happened. It's not an excuse to say he was mistreated and went mentally off the rails in trying to prove himself worthy or whatever else bc he was abused, but it's a compelling reason that makes sense imo that he would attribute this to w h y he was never worthy and then went through so much villainous effort to prove he still could be useful.

Thor does not understand what Loki speaks of when they argue on 'imagined slights' because he somehow missed that Loki was being mistreated. Genuine mistake, perhaps, but it left Loki in a position where he was getting treated as dirt whereas Thor was put on a pedestal. Both not great situations, and you can't compare abuse, but Loki was additionally shown having to deal with fallout of leaving the situation while Thor 2 was the last time Thor seriously got to reconsider his relation with Odin as a being other than perfect. That conflict and Thor leaving adds a neat layer of depth to Thor's character in my opinion, not unlike what Loki gained at the end of Thor 1.

I can't speak for everyone, and certainly not for apologists since I don't consider myself one, but I don't hate Thor. Loki's suffering is just. not his fault. I don't blame either of them for what position the other was in. But Loki's problems are, on top of everything, things he was born with. Things he can't change and shouldn't have to but still sees as bad.

Also, Thor's redemption arc is great on it's own but not, in my opinion, as fleshed out as Loki's downfall in the same movie. it's not something specific to his identity that he's overcoming because those we're shown on Asgard are also arrogant! they're also into fighting and violence and acting superior! that's standardized Asgardian values for you babey! it's behavioural and stuff Thor can and does attempt to move on from! and then Loki comes along and he's trying to live up to these expectations that he wasn't ever going to be able to live up to because of who he was because whether or not Asgardian-ness is considered Valid In A Given Situation is dependent on Odin! The system of Righteous Judgement is flawed! It's why I blame Odin and Frigga for everything rather than either Thor or Loki, even though I see Thor and Loki as also having an abusive dynamic going for them!

To me Thor as 'the hero who gains humility' is in huge part unique because it occurs at the perfect time for Loki to be fallout damage. (And vice versa with Loki's arc!). Because Thor and Loki act as foils (is that the word?) in Thor 1 and take each other's positions by the end of the film, because Thor learns something was wrong about himself before, he knows something is wrong with his brother right now, even if the entire morality-of-killing discussion has no real part in their discussion.

Thor's own arc through Thor 1-3 means he's genuinely trying to be better, he's just. still working on it. And struggling to acknowledge the past is bad for reasons is difficult bc they were indoctrinated and unlearning stuff is hard. But it CAN be interpreted that way and I love to do so, because Thor being smart but not being self aware until he stops and contemplates things properly is >>> and v/ heroic imo.

Odin gaslights and girlbosses everyone but he does so to Loki far more specifically and about Loki's own identity. Thor gets gatekept about how he's not the firstborn child AND how his brother is adopted and Jotun, Loki gets being the third child PLUS that he's a different species specifically one Asgard doesn't like PLUS a son of Laufey who is literally an enemy king PLUS that he was originally taken as a political token PLUS that being raised as a prince of Asgard with a right to the throne was a lie PLUS even though they raised him they see what he really is as a negative thing and probably intended never to tell him because of it. Loki's downfall is basically showcased lmao.

They were both abused but not in the same way, they were both lied to but I don't consider it equivalent, they're different characters in and of themselves, psychology is up to interpretation, etc.

So whether or not someone dislikes Thor is literally people's choice but I don't particularly hate him, no, though I feel you were being rude in the way you've asked.

I do hate the MCU though so jot that down. So much wasted potential smh.

The god. Of mischief.

Don't you miss Loki being powerful and kinda fearsome and dangerous... like a god of mischief he actually is?

You know I’m actually willing to grant that, in terms of what’s 100% canon, Loki might not have been tortured by Thanos to the extent many of us theorize (there’s a lot of evidence for those theories, and those are still my theories too, but I acknowledge that it technically hasn’t been confirmed by canon). However, something we know for certain is that he went through absolute hell in between Thor and Avengers - this was confirmed by Tom as the backstory he and Joss discussed. Tom likened Loki’s experience to being “kidnapped by a terrorist cell or something” and having to “survive a very, very frightening and precarious existence.” Technically, yes, “Loki was tortured by Thanos” is a definitive and quite specific statement that hasn’t been explicitly confirmed by canon. But we do know his experience with Thanos - whatever the exact details - was traumatizing. Tom’s full quotes indicate that they didn’t decide exactly what happened to Loki, just that it was very, very bad - so even if Thanos wasn’t the one to do the bulk of the traumatizing (though he’s at least responsible for some of it), someone(s) else in the universe was.

Anyway, regardless of whether Thanos directly tortured Loki, there are a number of other things we know about 2012 Loki: there was some degree of coercion (even if you theorize that it was Loki’s idea to make a deal with Thanos initially), Loki’s decisions were affected by some level of mind stone influence, we saw The Other physically harming Loki onscreen, and “he will make you long for something sweet as pain” is a horrifying threat (plus, the Other saying “you think you know pain” right before that is a pretty fucking strong implication that they put him through Something Bad - or even if they didn’t, somebody else did). So like I said - even if we don’t know for sure that he was tortured by Thanos, we do know Loki wasn’t exactly being treated well, and that the experience was very traumatizing in some way. 

Regardless of the details, that whole period of time between Thor and Avengers was a truly hellish experience for Loki, his time with Thanos was traumatizing in some unspecified way, and despite the fact that this all happened to Loki very recently, the show is ignoring all of it. For me, that’s the core problem here. Traumatic things canonically happened offscreen to Loki pre-Avengers that changed him from the person he was at the end of Thor (Tom talked about this constantly in Avengers interviews), Thanos was involved in that trauma in some capacity, and the show has not done anything to address it. And people are understandably upset about that.

Point I’m trying to make is that sometimes, trauma and violence are normalized. You just live through it and don’t talk about it because it’s just part of your life. So that the show hasn’t brought it up didn’t even really register for me because who would? Mobius, as part of telling Loki he’s worthless or as a way to break him? I don’t think he’s that heartless. Triggering a traumatized person can lead to all kinds of uncontrollable situations where someone isn’t going to trust you or do what you want them to and besides, Mobius focused on guilt in his initial interrogation- Loki causes these horrible things to other people. Loki did not cause what happened to him. Sylvie? Does she even know? The other Loki’s? Not in a situation where it was relevant. I could see Renslayer using it as a manipulation tactic, but again when? Loki himself? Perhaps, but like I said…repeatedly traumatized people don’t just bring this up as a matter of course. If they do, they tend to downplay it because it has been normalized. But in day to day living, you learn to block it out. Like, yes, I hear gunshots almost nightly. To anyone outside, that’s horrible. To me…it’s a part of living where I do. So why would Loki bring it up if he wasn’t in a situation which directly needed those specific survival skills or he encountered one of his triggers and had to justify his reactions to it?

I get that people want to see this addressed. It is something I’d like to see him have to cope with. But I don’t see how, with the plot of this show as it is, it would be worked in without it feeling forced.

I suppose I’m also seeing this as less analogous to WandaVision in my interpretation, too. Wanting it to go as deep is legit, just not my approach.

 Given Asgardian culture Loki would be extremely resistant to admitting to any vulnerabilities and would be unlikely to understand his own trauma in the way that we would; lots of fics play with these concepts because Loki’s performativeness is a key part of his character but do it in a way where the NARRATIVE very clearly does communicate and acknowledge what happened to Loki. This is not happening here at all. 

The show retcons Loki into a pompous spoiled prince who has never experienced pain or hardship. It’s not because it’s trying to do a realistic depiction of trauma. It’s because it’s trying to invalidate it! Loki never turned to the camera before and spoke about being traumatized but we could very clearly pick up on it due to the acting and storytelling and framing decisions in other movies like Avengers or Thor 2011.

Tony: I may be a playboy, but I know when to wear armor.

Natasha: There’s a time and place for stealth. The bedroom isn’t it. (Alternately: “Safety is easy. If he won’t wear a condom, kill him.”) 

Clint: Protection is important, on and off the range. 

Thor: It’s what a god would do. 

Bruce: Do it for science. Wear it for safety.

(Alternate:)

HBD LOKI OF ASGARD, GOD OF MISCHIEF

I know fuck all about many of the other characters, but if their “fanbase” is anything like Loki’s than I’m sure those characters too are viewed under this judgmental lens.

I’ve seen Loki being accused of “making his own bed” with Thanos by the IW & EG writers and directors. I’ve seen fans of the Loki series literally say Loki wasn’t born with a “good” heart, whatever the hell that means - sure as fuck means nothing in reality. And then we have the litany of fans who just can’t excuse his actions or say they love him but he’s still bad^tm. When in reality he’s just as bad as any of the heroes.

I’ve seen writers condemn Loki with torture, slavery, death, etc whether he was influenced in their fic or not. But the really galling one is when he’s influenced + mind controlled, and still somehow is deserving of punishment. And the punishment is dealt out by a hero of all things! The hero is usually cruel, crueler than even Loki’s actions in canon. And it’s shown as the right moral way.

Mind you, write what you want and maybe some people don’t even mean to make it sound like they’re villainizing Loki - sometimes it’s the opposite and the heroes are being villainized. Maybe people dont mean to insinuate that cruel and unusual punishment is valid as long as the criminal is a “monster”.

And hell, I can even get using Loki as a medium for your anger (but I imagine we see the character WAY different)

But there’s something about the combination of Marvel even encouraging this view of Loki that pisses me off to everything else? Like Loki simply isn’t the villain fans make him out to be, this is just fact - I don’t really care if you can see it or not, it’s true. You could still not like him, sure. Still write whatever the hell you want. But Loki will never be this one dimensional H*tler like figure.

If people want to ostracize and condemn Loki as if his actions take place in the real world and therefore should be held up to it’s moral and lawful standards (which like… wtf? No one wants Cap or Tony or Bruce or Nat or Clint or literally any of the Heroic Characters™ to have a fate determined by how they would hold up in court, so uh…) then for gods sakes TREAT HIM LIKE A PERSON!

I don’t get it, I really don’t. If you want to pretend this is in the real world (and that subtext, metaphor, and drama don’t exist), then please allow the character to have the consideration, bodily autonomy, and depth of emotion of a real fucking person. Please.

I’m so frustrated with these writers (professionals or otherwise) acting like Loki is this vile scum-of-the-earth narcissist who needs to be put in his place over and over and over again and it would always be justified. It’s so incredibly offensive and appalling that they don’t seem to see that they’re missing the entire point of the original franchise: to earn the title of being a hero through your actions regardless of your past or background.

If you imagine any of the other main MCU characters being demeaned and punished on this level… you wouldn’t be able to, because it would never happen.

And there’s something so… sinister about it. Like, it might not be completely intentional, but treating one of your most queer and other-coded characters— who appears to have struggled with mental illness and very severe self esteem issues for his entire life, not mention past and recent trauma— like he’s less than a whole person and should never be trusted or given care or acceptance or love or that things happening to his body and mind just plain don’t matter… you’re saying something very very bad very very loudly.

It’s also, narratively speaking, boring as fuck.

(Bask in the awesomeness of this.)

Oh

My

Now I know I don't usually post stuff like this, but I'm doing it this time, because we're all a bunch of broke youngsters unable to raise money ourselves for her.

Covid, the lockdowns in India, etc. Have ruined so much for so many people and the people who are struggling the most are the ones who were barely making ends meet to begin with.

And to the people seeing this, you may think that there's nothing you can do because you don't live in India. But you can. The link I'm going to attach works for non Indians too. Any little helps. Honestly, even desi tumblrs seeing this can contribute even if it's a little.

We're all struggling... Yes. But some more than us. And if we can do even a little to make their lives just a little less dire and a little less difficult within our capabilities, we've made a difference in their lives.

This is a dire situation. I encourage everyone to reblog this post. If you cannot pay at least reblog. Likes don't get this post seen by other people who may be willing to help or donate.

So please... Do what you can. This lady's last resort is human kindness. The least we can do is give it to her.

This is the link where anyone can donate. Even non Indians.

As promised, the Loki only close up of this picture.

When the Supreme Intelligence was attacking Carol she was allowed to fight back and reclaim herself and the SI was always framed as evil. Quill got to fight Ego and avenge his mother's murder and Ego was framed as evil. But Nebula (and Gamora) never got to kill Thanos and the Russos even tried to make him sympathetic, Bucky has to make amends and it's almost like Hydra never existed and he did all that shit willingly, Loki is treated like a villain no matter what he does even when those around him are far worse than he is (and I'm not only talking of the series here, what about Odin? He was always framed as benevolent).