Unfortunately i've been seeing nines character get taken horribly out of context, same situation with killer sevens character all over again, where people saw he was quiet and keeps to himself and immediately assume hes the "bad boy with no good emotions" trope.
Nine is an incredibly skilled character despite being the youngest shadow killer, he has a fun personality and design but the only things I tend to see of him are in ooc ship dynamics ESPECIALLY with 13, and unwarranted hate.
Are we forgetting that he probably grew up isolated from the rest of the world in order to become an assassin? I dont really see anything we actually know about him ever get incorporated into his character. I understand he was only here for like one episode but that doesn't make it impossible to really understand who he is, you just gotta try harder.
And coming back to the dynamics, the things I see of him is disgusting, the assumptions made of him just because hes tan is extremely racist and not only that i have seen more pale art of nine then him in his actual skintone. "Let's make nine huge and domineering next to a tiny thirteen because of his appearance!" Maybe dont watch the show with your eyes glued shut next time
I also genuinely dislike when people strictly judge characters off of powerscaling. I recently had a little debate with somebody because I questioned them on why they hated nine and the only things they really told me were that it's because he "appeared out of nowhere," got his ass beat by a weakened seven, and hes annoying? Theres a LOT I could say about this.
Nine is young, this is his first mission against the previous strongest killer in the country. If you only judge nine on his feats, you are never going to actually understand his character. I also don't really think he had enough screentime for people to solidly hate his guts other than the fact he lost a fight, (which, he didnt. Hes still alive and seven is passed out.) I also don't find him annoying at all and sure you can dislike him for that but I beg of people to please look deeper into his character. God forbid a character be confident and funny. I have another post further back of my interpretation of his uniform being similar to sevens too, i hope it did justice to his past/character LOL
Its a shame we're given this interesting character who not only has an intriguing past, but can also wield the TDD because his powers apparently originate the same as sevens? We're given all this but people cannot look past the fact that he fits into their fetishy ship dynamics or the fact he lost a fight against the STRONGEST CHARACTER IN THE SHOW (So did everyone else??) And dont act like nine was losing horribly either, seven had to get extra creative with him
they better go into FULL DETAIL abt this next season
Obviously I'm not saying you can't dislike him, because it's possible! I just beg you have actual reasoning for it other than powerscaling ;). My whole argument here is that I wish people would evaluate nines character better. Hes one of my favorites and im excited to see whats in store for season 6!
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a lot of times when i see oubingzha art i feel like people tend to draw ao bing very very feminine, ofc i understand in canon he is, but its to a point where they also make nezha exceedingly masculine and eventually it just looks like theyre trying to make them straight😭 like lets not forget nezha has been mistaken as a girl numerous times LOL
And too add theyre like the same height in canon and idk if its for a certain dynamic people are going for but a lot of ppl tend to also make ao bing suuuper short💔
any theories/predictions for the upcoming movie? I've got no ideas, especially if this is what follows season 5
In the S7 discord like five years ago we got this message translating some stuff that the director had said in a livestream. This is the official discord (I literally joined it off the link at the end credits in the show) and most of it has been right so far so I've got no reason to doubt it. Since they said that the "movie and show don't overlap," my assumption is that it's gonna be about the past. Either about Seven's past, Nine's creation, more about Seven and the Girl in White, or Thirteen + Eleven's childhood, my assumption is generally it's gonna expand on SOMEONE's past
dude i want this movie to be about girl in white so bad that i am willing to sacrifice any sort of nine appearance ok THIS HAS TO BE FOR HER… nine is still alive so he still has a chance for development in the show but if giw is dead then she really doesn’t have a better opportunity than this to get developed further
its conflicting cause i think it's kind of the point that she's a nothing character at the moment but also i would love to know more about her. I think it's cool that she doesn't even have a name. The whole point was that she was just another pawn in the game, and her use was over with when Seven "died"
But I do really wanna know more about her. I have always, always theorized that giw is from the Heaven Lily sect similar to Huilian and I would LOVE to either get that confirmed or denied. Cause who else would be better to try and trick someone to falling in love with them than a heaven lily student? Im conflicted but hopeful
Im literally praying on my KNEES that its about his past bro🙏🙏🙏 but seeing the trailer im lowkey confused lmao, and as much as i love giw i think it would be so interesting to see seven in his past presented with his actual emotions and stuff other than just short flashback scenes weve seen before. Itd flesh out past sevens character so much and also cure the terrible mischaracterization he gets
i think it wouldve been really cool if in the final battle wuliang turned into his creepy dragon form instead of his buff form HAHA, that scene where he's sneaking up on shen gongbao behind the clouds is amazing and so trippy
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DO NOT TALK TO ME WHEN THIS DROPS GLOBALLY IM SO EXCITED
if you couldnt tell im a sucker for chinese mythological media (since thai epics like ramakien arent as popular but i def recommend people to read or look into it) this one is called All Wishes Come True! Where it's basically about the 8 immortals in Taoism
Mythological or movies dealing with culture in general are so awesome, I myself do thai classical dance so no matter the genre ive always really like these epics, (once matt bralys Afterworld: กลับบ้าน drops ill never be the same finally some thai rep) which, if funded, will be animated by the studio that made NEZHA 2 holy shit
ao guang telling ne zha some bs like "water and fire are incompatible" to be petty before he leaves just to let Ao bing return immediately after is so funny
Ao guang and ne zhas little rivalry is so funny especially when they ended up fighting over a miscommunication and nobody apologized
Ao bing is really their voice of reason otherwise theyd still be at eachothers throats LMAO
Looking at me like i just walked in on them making meth
this is my "i never knew dolores had a plate of corn in this scene" because im having ne zha withdrawals
i really like this short not just because jiang ziya is really funny and the fact ne zha having food on his face gave him insomnia
but because of the fact he wakes up at like 11 pm at night to find ao bing and ne zha playing with fucking blocks or something😭😭dude weve got bigger fish to fry, sworn enemies btw
ik the hoop makes ne zha appear younger but damn its really funny seeing ao bing playing board games with a kid, the entire concept of their friendship/whatever you wanna call it is just really funny
Ao bing is also so expressive and it kills me that he looks like hes about to burst into tears at any second
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finding similarities between characters across media is super fun (if you couldnt tell by a few of my last posts) but this one takes the cake
Not just the colors but their circumstances too? (And im basing nezha and ao bing based off of the movie) nezha and ao bing meeting over saving a girl from a sea monster, mobai saving jasmine from a dragon, the list goes on. Their relationship looked down on because nezha is a cursed demon and ao bing is a DRAGON prince? Mo lang hated due to the blood demon and Bai qi becoming king? I would have assumed they were based off the former. The personalities match up really good as well LMAO
both duos are eventually forced to clash due to manipulation, (shen gongbao and aite probably) and coincidentally, both duos get accused of being "brothers" instead of having an (implied??) relationship. Ao bing is burdened with the dragon clan while Bai qi is burdened to Stan, while Nezha and ML are outlawed and feared due to their powers.
both present a super similar emotional core in having a soulmate (platonic or not) who only understands them. One of the points of Nezha is that destiny does not define who you are, and as bwtd continues to be written i feel itll follow the same path. The greatest struggles in both franchises come from expectations beyond the characters control, instead of a personal hatred between the two :,,)
just something fun i wanted to talk about, i havent seen this be brought up before but please correct me if im wrong
green phoenix lowkey steps on everyones toes and its really funny
Find an 11 year old girl? Raise her for 6 years for your master plan of overthrowing the leader. Its a little crazy to become a guardian for six whole years just to make the leader believe you mastered a sword technique, but hey, hes a man with a plan. Perfection takes time.
your old coworker is back from the dead? Dont panic!! Have your disciple kill him for you.
Oh shit. They fell in love. Thats okay, immediately find a way to use him for your overthrowing plan. Even if that means sending him on a wild goose chase to another country, only for you to stab him and have him get jumped by 40 different people. Its all coming together in phoenix's plethora of cards up his sleeve. Dont even threaten or force the guy to go either. He'll do it for the sake of his existential crisis.
Just as you think of this conundrum, your bitch coworker redtooth mildy inconveniences you by trying to kill him because he has unresolved feelings for his girlfriend 10 years ago. Fuck, this always happens! So you kill him. There seems to be a pattern of Phoenix's plans getting fucked up due to characters falling in love.
It also turns out that raising an orphan girl for 6 years comes with emotions and obligations. Just as your plan is about to succeed, she gets captured and you realize you're not just her stepfather, but the father who stepped up.
Now you're imprisoned in a mountain, but you have morals now, and friends. Gp leaving his goals to the next generation of assassins is wonderful. He cant judge thirteen for betraying him for seven. Who does he think she learned it from? Everybody is just a pawn on his chessboard, but in the end the boards on fire and he decides there is more to life than winning, so he shields his own chess pieces from the flames. (This is a terrible analogy)
I RAMBLE A LOOOT AND REPEAT MYSELF but its super long so i dont wanna fix everything
I was talking to my friend about seven and thirteens relationship, and she was giving me the reasons she wasn't entirely fond with it
Seven sort of just kisses her in season 1
There isnt a duration of time where Seven can recognize how he feels towards her, he kind of just begins liking her because she's pretty
Seven is very forgiving and is never upset with her for how she treats him early on
It can still feel a bit one sided and rushed
I agree with a lot of these things, and my only excuse would be that because the first season was more comedic, thirteen was introduced to be a funny love interest and seven is lovestruck for giggles. This sort of stumped them from the start. Even when the tone shifts later, it feels rushed because there is no duration we get between them where they can grow to like each other. Later seasons kind of fix this because it becomes serious, but the problem is that their dynamic grows WHEN seven already likes her, and thirteen begins liking him. I'm glad the writing progresses later on for their relationship, but it's still rushed when seven already instantly liked her when he saw her. The only development from here on out is the two getting to know each other even more after the fact. Theres a lot of weight behind their actions from this development, but I do agree it could be conveyed better. It's good that seven developed from liking her for being pretty to admiring her skills as an assassin, but it would have been better if he acknowledged these things before falling head over heels.
I acknowledge that seven is extremely kind and overly forgiving, but I agree that it also would have been nice for him to have some sort of resolve with thirteen. Ive ranted earlier on why i believe seven was so chill when she stabbed him, and these evaluations I do are why I am able to enjoy the ship so much, because I enjoy finding reasoning behind this kind of stuff. Because the show doesn't exactly convey this stuff thoroughly, I understand why it could be easy to dislike them, and why their relationship could appear rushed. I think there should have been some instances where he was just a little upset and wary of thirteen. Im content with the steps taken to fix this, such as seven and thirteen protecting eachother, fighting together, and etc because it gives more reason on why they would like eachother, but I would also understand if this didn't sway people, because the most important part of a romance development is the duration taken to get to this stage. This development happens when seven already likes her, but it would be a lot better if he had this kind of development before liking her, because it could come across as seven only doing these things for her because he has a crush. This growth is good on thirteens part because these actions taken or what slowly caused her to like seven, but for seven he's been doing this from the start, seemingly for no reason. (I understand he protects her follows her etc for deeper reasoning, but it isnt exactly conveyed in the show unless you search deeper.)
One of the problems I had myself is that I thought they would fix the problem of seven immediately being lovestruck in season 4, Seven tells thirteen he is dangerous to be around, but he never acts upon these words. (Besides running away from the campfire for like 30 minutes.) He still follows her blindly and stays around her despite even becoming wanted in season 5. I could understand all this due to sevens personality and because he is known to be stubborn, but i still understand why people would find this dumb.
I think a way this could have been fixed is if seven acted on the knowledge he is being hunted. Thirteen would grow distant due to needing to save green phoenix and fulfilling his mission, and instead of seven following her in order to help her, he casts aside his feelings for a bit to protect her (because the whole country is after him now.) I think this would have paved a way earlier on if he did distance himself in seasons 4-5 after fighting blackbird for the two to get a proper duration of time to realize they kind of need each other. If this had happened, it'd give way in the newer seasons for them to eventually spark and new flame with sevens current character development instead, which i think would be super cool (this is very hard to explain but basically because sevens life is becoming more serious, hes sort of more cold and not as careless as he was in season 1. With this newer personality of his it'd make interactions with he and thirteen more meaningful than in season 1, and itd kind of be a fresh start for them i guess??) i do believe in seasons 6-7 they'll still develop in this way of better interactions because seven is a lot more mature now, just without a duration of seven temporarily losing feelings. (THIS IS JUST MY THEORY BTWWW just something i brought up to my friend on how they could figure out a way for it to be less rushed) The only reason i bring this up is because when i spoke about it with my friend, her biggest issue is not the current development they get, but how it isnt all that meaningful to her because seven had only begun liking her for being pretty.
I feel like a good example is when Seven tells thirteen in season 3, "Just go, you don't have to protect me, we barely know each other." This would have been really good if A: this conversation happened in season 1 before he liked her, or B: He acted upon these words in seasons 3-4 and distanced himself a bit?? If that makes sense. If they got a bit of distance on behalf of seven in season 5 the development in 6-7 could be sky rocketing but Im aware it'd also be a little dumb because its kind of like a refresh to their relationship in the middle of the series, but i also think itd be good development for it being "rushed"
A cool aspect of seven growing as a character would be for him to realize hes dangerous to be around and build some walls, instead of the cycle of them finding eachother in battle and protecting eachother, just to separate again afterwards, and then he and thirteen could slowly and properly make their way back towards eachother (this is what i wished had happened because theres no time for this anymore HAHA)
As the show gets more serious i hope they develop them more, but its kind of hard to not make it seemed rushed when they already like each other, i think they tried to fix it with 13 running away to save green phoenix, but even then it would have been a nice chance to have seven evaluate his feelings as his life becomes more hectic. The biggest issue I have is the constant cycle of meeting, protecting each other, then leaving.
i feel like seven x thirteen is a really big interpretation thing!! I personally dont think its very rushed because they had time to develop a lot in seasons 2-5.
i wanna come back to this later and talk on it more but i think "seven forgives thirteen too easily" is a crazy point to make when thats like the point with everyone . right . it's not just thriteen . he forgives daibo very easilya nd this is POINTED OUT BY DAI BO for more unforgivable shit than thirteen does. he forgives alot of people. it's integral to his character. it's a comedy telling a serious story so sometimes it's Nigh Comical how much he forgives people - but the point is that like he forgives everyone because he is kind and wants to see the good in everyone and wants to leave his old life behind. so ofc this extends to thirteen too. if this is a point against their relationship it's a point against every relationship he has in the show. seven is forgiving with thirteen for teh same reason he's forgiving with everyone else in the show. these points about how it "should have gone" with their timeline is kind of writing a character that is Not Seven. but i will come back atler
(Sorry i know youre coming back to this) REREADING WHAT I WROTE I REALIZE I WAS BULLSHITTING A BUNCH LMAO, i agree and I should have conveyed it better, I understand why he is so forgiving, and i attempted to find a way to incorporate it in the timeline to find a way for it to feel less rushed to my friend, but I'm starting to see I dont think her original problem was with their relationship but also some of the writing of sevens character..i personally dont see a problem with it at all because being forgiving is his entire character, but I see how the points she was making would bleed into his interactions with other characters. I got very indulged into this "rewritten s7" timeline and a lot of the things I incorporated into the story were ooc so i wouldnt take this post seriously at all, but i do wanna hear your interpretation on it! it was my way of trying to find a possible solution to what kind of writing would be required for my friend to view it as not rushed and the timeline was basically something we curated after a loong debate that would more cater to what she would view as better writing
i worded it super poorly in the og thing, i do hope they get more development but not at all in the way i was explaining. I think seven being forgiving is a very large and important aspect of his character that i unintentionally disregarded in my post🥲🥲
hi it's okay i lowkey forgot so this notification reminded me LMAO. i think ultimately the problem is just Seven is not the type of character your friend likes. and that's okay! not everything is for everyone. but for the story the show is trying to tell, and the way it's telling it, there's very few things i'd change about seven. anything i WOULD have changed about seven HAS been changed through the show - the only part i, personally, still hate is the kiss in season one. for me, i kinda have to disregard that is "shitty comedy" and move on with my day.
mildly in depth analysis for your friend or you or whoever wants to read:
I think you kind of have to suspend disbelief . This show is a comedy, ultimately, right ? It's the foundation of the show. Even as it turns more serious, and even as things get dark, at it's core it's a comedy - it wants to tell this story in a lighthearted way, and to find breaks where it can laugh, because that's the type of person Seven is. The show has to be a comedy, because Seven could only be the protagonist in a comedy. And that's why a lot of things come off as rushed - one, I figure that making this show is no easy feat, and that it's probably easier for them to rush through some of these things - but two, that's just kind of the nature of a comedy, I feel like. You have to suspend disbelief and ask yourself to look deeper when the show looks deeper. You two are both looking for aspects in Seven's character that are already there.
I think, to address Seven falling hard and falling fast, that's just who he is. You can't look at him at the logistical thing of "oh, he should've taken time to fall in love" - because he didn't have a normal life, and some people just fall hard and fast. This is the second time in his life he has folded for a woman at an insane pace. The exact same thing happened with the Girl in White - in fact, the whole goddamn plan banked on him falling for her so hard in such a short amount of time that he would fight the entire nation for her. And he did. They don't spend long together - not that we see at least. It takes very little for Seven to fall in love. That singular act of saving his life - out of an assassin, no less, who is trained to do nothing but kill - subconsciously or consciously, instantly made him fall in love, because that sort of thing means so much to him - and would've meant so much to him in the past. He falls hard and fast - and I will entirely admit, his dialogue about Thirteen for the first half of the first season of this show is Gross sometimes. But for me, I'm willing to write that off as shitty writing is shitty writing. They're joke comments played off for laughs. They're forgettable one-liners that have no actual weight over their relationship.
As for Seven being forgiving - he sees the good in everybody. That is just how he is. He does not want to be cruel, or anything of the sort, and he wants to love and be loved, so he'll look for the good in anybody to have that connection. Seven actually does get irritated with Thirteen's actions early on.
This line is said jokingly, but the point is the same - he's irritated enough to give in to what she wants, a fight, even though he doesn't want to bother with anything of the sort. And do you know why he forgives her, why he is never irritated with her again, and why he doesn't ever bring this up again?
Because she gives up on it here. Because time and time again, Seven's actions cause Thirteen to fold, and lets Seven see the best side of Thirteen - the part that wants to protect, not harm, the part that was a scared girl who wanted to save herself and the people she loved. Seven will always forgive her because Seven fundamentally understands the internal war that Thirteen has with herself. Even if he can't fully relate, even if there's themes of misogyny and parental guilt and such that Seven couldn't relate to, at it's core, it's a very similar battle that Seven went through. And even if it wasn't, he'd still empathize with her and look for this good side in her. The part of Thirteen that saves his life, the part that forfeits this battle and returns the Thousand Demon Dagger and tells him about the bounties on their heads, the part that constantly tries to sidestep any order to kill him or anything because she "owes him a favor," the part that's willing to, rarely, humor Seven,
that is the Thirteen that Seven is in love with. And yeah, this love was initially 90% built on him finding her pretty, but their relationship can evolve over time.
Thirteen does not love Seven back, yet. Not entirely, I don't think. I think she's fond of him, bare minimum, but I think it's hard to say Thirteen is in love with him because of her actions in season 5. Her blushing and fumbling around him isn't strictly romantic - Seven puts her in situations she has never been in before. Seven sees a girl in Thirteen that no one else sees, and she doesn't know how to really handle those associated emotions and situations. So while I personally like to live in a delusional world where that means Thirteen loves him back now, factually, it does not. She's fond of him, and his outlook on life has caused her to change her own - or start to, at the very least.
I don't think Seven could lose romantic feelings - because he's not that kind of person. His feelings for everyone he knows - romantic or platonic, all of it is love - is what drives him. The most horrifying moments of his life, time and time again, are the moments where he feels he's forgetting everything. He explains to Thirteen literally that that's what keeps him going, the island and the people there who love him, and he includes Thirteen in that fantasy. He couldn't lose feelings for her because he's just not the type of person who loses feelings - not when those feelings motivate him to keep going. Seven isn't going to stay in Xuanwu forever. He's not going to go back to his old life. He went back to Xuanwu for the safety of those who couldn't defend themselves - those on the island, which is a fair point, they could not defend themselves at all - so that he could put things to bed, for good. The ideal of returning to his domestic life is what keeps him going. Hell or high water, he's going to end everything and get to go home, or die trying. Thirteen is still around throughout all this because Seven knows and understands Thirteen is a strong person, and can hold her own. That's why Seven never steps in to save her until the last moment - time and time again, Seven waits until he's absolutely sure Thirteen needs his help (or if there's no other option because things are moving too quickly,) before he steps in. And if given the opportunity to let Thirteen shine on her own, he will. That's why he lends the Thousand Demon Daggers to her at the end of season 3 - not because he couldn't have rushed in, not because he couldn't do anything else, but because he believed in Thirteen. That's why he's standing so far back and letting her have her moment. He knows Thirteen is a strong person, and that's why he doesn't try to push her away until he's hardly able to control himself. Xuanwu is her home, Xuanwu is where Thirteen was born and raised and turned into the assassin she is, and Thirteen has beat Seven's ass more times than I could count, so why would he ever distance himself or tell her to back off until he absolutely had to? And even in that moment, the one time where Seven was scared of himself and tried to run away from Thirteen to keep her safe, who was it that calmed him back down? Whose presence was it that kept him fighting, when he was crumbling apart and about to give up?
Thirteen, motherfucker. In this moment where her very presence grounds him - he tells her it's dangerous to be around her, and she tells him: yeah, if you don't shut the fuck up, maybe. And that's all that needs to be said about it.
When Thirteen explains that this is unequivocally and entirely her fault, Seven doesn't care. You know why? Because she came back. Because she's here. Because she's willing to humor him, and bandage him, and talk to him to distract him from the pain.
I don't think their stories can be told separately. Saying that they should've been separate - longer than they already were for season 4 and 5, mind you - kind of undermines the effect they've had on each other. They have to be tangential to each other. They have to be, because Thirteen's life wouldn't have changed the way it has if Seven wasn't there all the time, and Seven wouldn't still be ALIVE, let alone kept fighting to be stronger for the people he loves, if Thirteen wasn't there to keep helping him back up, even when it's her fault that he's down. They have to be told together. And you can see them as platonic, or you can say that they shouldn't be together yet - which is true, they shouldn't be together yet! there's another season of bullshit to work through before that should even really be considered - but you cannot deny that their stories need to be told together, because they have had such drastic effects on each other. Like it or not, they're important to each other. Even if they're not important in any conventional way. Even if Seven's romantic love for her turns out to be nothing, it was important that he loved her. It was important that Thirteen was hesitant, but reciprocated in the smallest ways she could - if these things didn't happen, these characters wouldn't be Seven and Thirteen.
That's kind of my ultimate point, here, I guess. I'm explaining these moments and trying to dig a little deeper with them, because the more you dig through these moments, the more the ship makes sense. There's a million reasons to not like the ship, but I think to disregard them as needing a rewrite is disregarding the characters themselves. They're not together yet, and they've hardly done anything that's strictly romantic, and there's still the potential they could end platonic (I would blow up a city the size of Detroit, but it could happen!) If you're not fond of shipping them romantically for whatever reason, that's fine. If you're not fond of their relationship at all and find that it need a rewrite to be enjoyable, I think you're just not the type of person who likes the story that Scissor Seven wants to tell. And that's okay! You can like the rest of the show, but it's hard to disregard them without disregarding the entire point, you know? The rewrite put out here, it wouldn't be a bad show, sure. But one, it'd have to be a much longer show, we're running off fifteen minute episodes in ten episode long seasons, and two, it wouldn't be Scissor Seven. Seven and Thirteen wouldn't be Seven and Thirteen there. And they'd be a just fine and dandy ship in that hypothetical show, but it wouldn't be this, you know? I personally love them and ship them because of the way they are. And believe me, I used to hate the ship! I didn't like it until I had finished season 3. Back when I first watched the show, when only season 2 was out, I hated the ship and figured it was for like, loser gooners. But the more the show goes on, the more depth they get, and the more their relationship is explored and reciprocated, the more I enjoy it. Maybe you personally need some more exploration and time to enjoy them, to which I say, give it time. The show's not over yet. We still have a movie confirmed, and if I remember correctly, there's an old message somewhere saying the director confirmed they wanted to go to ten seasons (which I could be wrong on, but bare minimum I'm confident season six isn't the end.) So give it time! You might not like them now, but their story isn't over yet, and they will develop more. Things will grow and change :)
i agree! I do believe that 90% of the reason why most people would not like the ship is how the first season isn't serious and takes off as a comedy with the silly comments seven makes about thirteen and the kiss. Of course some people arent gonna be fond of this or arent gonna disregard it later on, I love the ship a lot because I'm able to disregard this because as the show progresses, so did the writing, and they built on their relationship which, in my opinion, makes up for whatever happened in season 1. I never had a period of time where I disliked the ship because I knew the first season was going to be silly and stupid, but ultimately, not everybody is going to interpret it like that and thats okay. Her problem does lie with seven himself, and unfortunately there isn't any way I could resolve that without him being violently ooc :,)
i do really enjoy your rundown on their relationship, and I think the main issue previously is that some people just dont enjoy certain types of characters or writing. For what it is, I really enjoy their relationship personally. Seven is a really silly guy, so of course he's gonna fall fast. It may not be realistic, but is any aspect of this show? Ultimately it was a silly debate I had with her that could be summarized with "you just prefer a more 'realistic' storyline, and thats okay" seven becoming lovestruck imo is very realistic to his personality, but maybe not in the bigger picture (to which id argue its just a silly show)
like you said, the actions taken between the two in further seasons is enough to solidify them for me. So many things have gone down to the point where I could look at them and agree they should be a couple. And like you said again, it isnt over, and their relationship is still developing!!
(and to add on to them distancing) i now realize that'd be an unneeded "rewriting" of their storyline. Both of them are powerful and can handle themselves, and there are other ways they can develop instead of getting a whole reboot. I myself already think their writing is good enough to overrule sevens fast feelings earlier on, but not everybody is gonna feel that way
tl;dr : not everyone is gonna be content with ships or characters that i enjoy HAHA and thats okay
I RAMBLE A LOOOT AND REPEAT MYSELF but its super long so i dont wanna fix everything
I was talking to my friend about seven and thirteens relationship, and she was giving me the reasons she wasn't entirely fond with it
Seven sort of just kisses her in season 1
There isnt a duration of time where Seven can recognize how he feels towards her, he kind of just begins liking her because she's pretty
Seven is very forgiving and is never upset with her for how she treats him early on
It can still feel a bit one sided and rushed
I agree with a lot of these things, and my only excuse would be that because the first season was more comedic, thirteen was introduced to be a funny love interest and seven is lovestruck for giggles. This sort of stumped them from the start. Even when the tone shifts later, it feels rushed because there is no duration we get between them where they can grow to like each other. Later seasons kind of fix this because it becomes serious, but the problem is that their dynamic grows WHEN seven already likes her, and thirteen begins liking him. I'm glad the writing progresses later on for their relationship, but it's still rushed when seven already instantly liked her when he saw her. The only development from here on out is the two getting to know each other even more after the fact. Theres a lot of weight behind their actions from this development, but I do agree it could be conveyed better. It's good that seven developed from liking her for being pretty to admiring her skills as an assassin, but it would have been better if he acknowledged these things before falling head over heels.
I acknowledge that seven is extremely kind and overly forgiving, but I agree that it also would have been nice for him to have some sort of resolve with thirteen. Ive ranted earlier on why i believe seven was so chill when she stabbed him, and these evaluations I do are why I am able to enjoy the ship so much, because I enjoy finding reasoning behind this kind of stuff. Because the show doesn't exactly convey this stuff thoroughly, I understand why it could be easy to dislike them, and why their relationship could appear rushed. I think there should have been some instances where he was just a little upset and wary of thirteen. Im content with the steps taken to fix this, such as seven and thirteen protecting eachother, fighting together, and etc because it gives more reason on why they would like eachother, but I would also understand if this didn't sway people, because the most important part of a romance development is the duration taken to get to this stage. This development happens when seven already likes her, but it would be a lot better if he had this kind of development before liking her, because it could come across as seven only doing these things for her because he has a crush. This growth is good on thirteens part because these actions taken or what slowly caused her to like seven, but for seven he's been doing this from the start, seemingly for no reason. (I understand he protects her follows her etc for deeper reasoning, but it isnt exactly conveyed in the show unless you search deeper.)
One of the problems I had myself is that I thought they would fix the problem of seven immediately being lovestruck in season 4, Seven tells thirteen he is dangerous to be around, but he never acts upon these words. (Besides running away from the campfire for like 30 minutes.) He still follows her blindly and stays around her despite even becoming wanted in season 5. I could understand all this due to sevens personality and because he is known to be stubborn, but i still understand why people would find this dumb.
I think a way this could have been fixed is if seven acted on the knowledge he is being hunted. Thirteen would grow distant due to needing to save green phoenix and fulfilling his mission, and instead of seven following her in order to help her, he casts aside his feelings for a bit to protect her (because the whole country is after him now.) I think this would have paved a way earlier on if he did distance himself in seasons 4-5 after fighting blackbird for the two to get a proper duration of time to realize they kind of need each other. If this had happened, it'd give way in the newer seasons for them to eventually spark and new flame with sevens current character development instead, which i think would be super cool (this is very hard to explain but basically because sevens life is becoming more serious, hes sort of more cold and not as careless as he was in season 1. With this newer personality of his it'd make interactions with he and thirteen more meaningful than in season 1, and itd kind of be a fresh start for them i guess??) i do believe in seasons 6-7 they'll still develop in this way of better interactions because seven is a lot more mature now, just without a duration of seven temporarily losing feelings. (THIS IS JUST MY THEORY BTWWW just something i brought up to my friend on how they could figure out a way for it to be less rushed) The only reason i bring this up is because when i spoke about it with my friend, her biggest issue is not the current development they get, but how it isnt all that meaningful to her because seven had only begun liking her for being pretty.
I feel like a good example is when Seven tells thirteen in season 3, "Just go, you don't have to protect me, we barely know each other." This would have been really good if A: this conversation happened in season 1 before he liked her, or B: He acted upon these words in seasons 3-4 and distanced himself a bit?? If that makes sense. If they got a bit of distance on behalf of seven in season 5 the development in 6-7 could be sky rocketing but Im aware it'd also be a little dumb because its kind of like a refresh to their relationship in the middle of the series, but i also think itd be good development for it being "rushed"
A cool aspect of seven growing as a character would be for him to realize hes dangerous to be around and build some walls, instead of the cycle of them finding eachother in battle and protecting eachother, just to separate again afterwards, and then he and thirteen could slowly and properly make their way back towards eachother (this is what i wished had happened because theres no time for this anymore HAHA)
As the show gets more serious i hope they develop them more, but its kind of hard to not make it seemed rushed when they already like each other, i think they tried to fix it with 13 running away to save green phoenix, but even then it would have been a nice chance to have seven evaluate his feelings as his life becomes more hectic. The biggest issue I have is the constant cycle of meeting, protecting each other, then leaving.
i feel like seven x thirteen is a really big interpretation thing!! I personally dont think its very rushed because they had time to develop a lot in seasons 2-5.
i wanna come back to this later and talk on it more but i think "seven forgives thirteen too easily" is a crazy point to make when thats like the point with everyone . right . it's not just thriteen . he forgives daibo very easilya nd this is POINTED OUT BY DAI BO for more unforgivable shit than thirteen does. he forgives alot of people. it's integral to his character. it's a comedy telling a serious story so sometimes it's Nigh Comical how much he forgives people - but the point is that like he forgives everyone because he is kind and wants to see the good in everyone and wants to leave his old life behind. so ofc this extends to thirteen too. if this is a point against their relationship it's a point against every relationship he has in the show. seven is forgiving with thirteen for teh same reason he's forgiving with everyone else in the show. these points about how it "should have gone" with their timeline is kind of writing a character that is Not Seven. but i will come back atler
(Sorry i know youre coming back to this) REREADING WHAT I WROTE I REALIZE I WAS BULLSHITTING A BUNCH LMAO, i agree and I should have conveyed it better, I understand why he is so forgiving, and i attempted to find a way to incorporate it in the timeline to find a way for it to feel less rushed to my friend, but I'm starting to see I dont think her original problem was with their relationship but also some of the writing of sevens character..i personally dont see a problem with it at all because being forgiving is his entire character, but I see how the points she was making would bleed into his interactions with other characters. I got very indulged into this "rewritten s7" timeline and a lot of the things I incorporated into the story were ooc so i wouldnt take this post seriously at all, but i do wanna hear your interpretation on it! it was my way of trying to find a possible solution to what kind of writing would be required for my friend to view it as not rushed and the timeline was basically something we curated after a loong debate that would more cater to what she would view as better writing
i worded it super poorly in the og thing, i do hope they get more development but not at all in the way i was explaining. I think seven being forgiving is a very large and important aspect of his character that i unintentionally disregarded in my post🥲🥲
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I RAMBLE A LOOOT AND REPEAT MYSELF but its super long so i dont wanna fix everything
I was talking to my friend about seven and thirteens relationship, and she was giving me the reasons she wasn't entirely fond with it
Seven sort of just kisses her in season 1
There isnt a duration of time where Seven can recognize how he feels towards her, he kind of just begins liking her because she's pretty
Seven is very forgiving and is never upset with her for how she treats him early on
It can still feel a bit one sided and rushed
I agree with a lot of these things, and my only excuse would be that because the first season was more comedic, thirteen was introduced to be a funny love interest and seven is lovestruck for giggles. This sort of stumped them from the start. Even when the tone shifts later, it feels rushed because there is no duration we get between them where they can grow to like each other. Later seasons kind of fix this because it becomes serious, but the problem is that their dynamic grows WHEN seven already likes her, and thirteen begins liking him. I'm glad the writing progresses later on for their relationship, but it's still rushed when seven already instantly liked her when he saw her. The only development from here on out is the two getting to know each other even more after the fact. Theres a lot of weight behind their actions from this development, but I do agree it could be conveyed better. It's good that seven developed from liking her for being pretty to admiring her skills as an assassin, but it would have been better if he acknowledged these things before falling head over heels.
I acknowledge that seven is extremely kind and overly forgiving, but I agree that it also would have been nice for him to have some sort of resolve with thirteen. Ive ranted earlier on why i believe seven was so chill when she stabbed him, and these evaluations I do are why I am able to enjoy the ship so much, because I enjoy finding reasoning behind this kind of stuff. Because the show doesn't exactly convey this stuff thoroughly, I understand why it could be easy to dislike them, and why their relationship could appear rushed. I think there could have been some instances where he was just a little upset and wary of thirteen. Im content with the steps taken to fix this, such as seven and thirteen protecting eachother, fighting together, and etc because it gives more reason on why they would like eachother, but I would also understand if this didn't sway people, because the most important part of a romance development is the duration taken to get to this stage. This development happens when seven already likes her, but it would be a lot better if he had this kind of development before liking her, because it could come across as seven only doing these things for her because he has a crush. This growth is good on thirteens part because these actions taken or what slowly caused her to like seven, but for seven he's been doing this from the start, seemingly for no reason. (I understand he protects her follows her etc for deeper reasoning, but it isnt exactly conveyed in the show unless you search deeper.)
One of the problems I had myself is that I thought they would fix the problem of seven immediately being lovestruck in season 4, Seven tells thirteen he is dangerous to be around, but he never acts upon these words. (Besides running away from the campfire for like 30 minutes.) He still follows her blindly and stays around her despite even becoming wanted in season 5. I could understand all this due to sevens personality and because he is known to be stubborn, but i still understand why people would find this dumb.
I think a way this could have been fixed is if seven acted on the knowledge he is being hunted. Thirteen would grow distant due to needing to save green phoenix and fulfilling his mission, and instead of seven following her in order to help her, he casts aside his feelings for a bit to protect her (because the whole country is after him now.) I think this would have paved a way earlier on if he did distance himself in seasons 4-5 after fighting blackbird for the two to get a proper duration of time to realize they kind of need each other. If this had happened, it'd give way in the newer seasons for them to eventually spark and new flame with sevens current character development instead, which i think would be super cool (this is very hard to explain but basically because sevens life is becoming more serious, hes sort of more cold and not as careless as he was in season 1. With this newer personality of his it'd make interactions with he and thirteen more meaningful than in season 1, and itd kind of be a fresh start for them i guess??) i do believe in seasons 6-7 they'll still develop in this way of better interactions because seven is a lot more mature now, just without a duration of seven temporarily losing feelings. (THIS IS JUST MY THEORY BTWWW just something i brought up to my friend on how they could figure out a way for it to be less rushed) The only reason i bring this up is because when i spoke about it with my friend, her biggest issue is not the current development they get, but how it isnt all that meaningful to her because seven had only begun liking her for being pretty.
I feel like a good example is when Seven tells thirteen in season 3, "Just go, you don't have to protect me, we barely know each other." This would have been really good if A: this conversation happened in season 1 before he liked her, or B: He acted upon these words in seasons 3-4 and distanced himself a bit?? If that makes sense. If they got a bit of distance on behalf of seven in season 5 the development in 6-7 could be sky rocketing but Im aware it'd also be a little dumb because its kind of like a refresh to their relationship in the middle of the series, but i also think itd be good development for it being "rushed"
A cool aspect of seven growing as a character would be for him to realize hes dangerous to be around and build some walls, instead of the cycle of them finding eachother in battle and protecting eachother, just to separate again afterwards, and then he and thirteen could slowly and properly make their way back towards eachother (this is what i wished had happened because theres no time for this anymore HAHA)
As the show gets more serious i hope they develop them more, but its kind of hard to not make it seemed rushed when they already like each other, i think they tried to fix it with 13 running away to save green phoenix, but even then it would have been a nice chance to have seven evaluate his feelings as his life becomes more hectic. The biggest issue I have is the constant cycle of meeting, protecting each other, then leaving.
i feel like seven x thirteen is a really big interpretation thing!! I personally dont think its very rushed because they had time to develop a lot in seasons 2-5.
The other day I saw seven x 13 hate in the tags and it weirded me out because it was about how "Seven constantly sexually harassed Thirteen in S1" which made no sense to me because I only remember flirting in a couple of episodes? One of the first things I remembered was your analysis about how Seven never touched Thirteen unless it was to help her. How do you feel about this? I'm not fond of the humour from season 1 but I don't think Seven goes as far as to harass Thirteen. Always down for some Seven x thirteen analysis
OKAY SO. I HAVE THOUGHTS ON THIS. Because I actually used to hate 6713 too. Like I used to be a major hater BECAUSE of season 1. My main memory of season one - which I assume where most of this comes from - is the 'accidental kiss' that I refuse to believe happened because it's corny and bad and ew. I think this is really the main offense for season 1. Most of season 1 made me dislike Seven a lot originally and I only stuck it out because my friend was making me finish it with her. It's the combination of these few incidents and the way he acts about other women early on in the season that made it feel icky. When I started the show it felt like they were going to be a shoehorned relationship that had no substance to it BECAUSE Seven found her pretty. I don't think Seven ever consciously or meant to harass her - the accidentally kiss thing was accidental, as annoying as I found it to be, that's just the writers being the writers. Everything else was verbal volleyball that kinda fell flat at times.
The reason this CHANGES is because, along with the show's humor and the way they present Seven changing a lot in season two and three - their relationship develops a lot. They steer away from this humor really quickly which is good because to me it really diminished the show early on, but they steer away from it but still kind of keep this core part of Seven that just Really Likes Girls and Wants Love. Like aside from the few comments he makes on appearances it's clear the point is more focused on Seven wants a normal life. Seven adores the connections between people and thinks about it constantly throughout the show so of course a romantic connection is also one he thinks about a lot and he falls hard for the first gorgeous woman he sees.
But I started liking them because it went above "well, she's pretty." In season 2 I think episode 3 he says to her "You're really pretty and also I respect you a lot and you're a good fighter, but you're really pissing me off right now!" (paraphrased, it's been a while) and it's like, at this point they start making it clear he loves her for more than just she's pretty. He respects her, he thinks she's strong and independent, he likes who she is - or the parts he's been able to see, at least. We don't see every domestic moment between Seven and Thirteen - evident by the photo in his closet that we never saw happen/get taken, but it's clear they've hung out at least and they've had calm moments. The photo is her on the beach and I think she's holding her hand out to a bird? And the photo is just her looking at the bird, and Seven isn't in it, but he presumably took it. Which is a really soft moment that kind of exposes her softness for animals - or at least birds for at least what I think are obvious reasons. Seven understands and catches these moments - even offscreen - and that's why he loves her. Their relationship I think from the moment of the season 1 finale changes to one of a lot of respect on Seven's end
Because you'll notice - I haven't seen season 5 so bare with me - I am right about him never touching her unless necessary, post that kiss. It's only when he's saving her. He's blacked out and living in a flashback in season 1's finale - but notably he mistakes her for another girl he loved. He saw the similarity in the situation and his brain copy and pasted "girl I am in love with." and put her in the girl in white's spot. After that he grabs her twice in season two to save her - he pulls her away from Captain Jack and from Eleven, and from Eleven he even grabbed the spear on the end of her hair - and in season three the only moment coming up in memory is the prayer bead scene Which Makes Me Really Insane So I'm Not Gonna Go Further On That
Like my point here is from season 1 on he is respectful and kind to her, and he loves her for more than her looks. He respects her, he thinks she's strong, he sees glimpses of her softer side. He mentions in season three at the campfire- I think the scene goes like, "I don't have anyone left to protect." "But you protected meee! What does that mean?" Which is the sort of shit-eating teasing (but also introspection) I think they always wanted Seven to have, it's just early on they went the wrong direction with it. You're free to dismiss the first season because god knows I ignore like 75% of it, but you need to acknowledge how he treats her the rest of the show. It feels obvious to me that they decided to change the direction they're going with it and it's fine to be uncomfortable with how S1 was presented, but I think given the chance to re-do S1 with the budget and time and the refined art style and writing they've grown into it would've gone a lot differently. That's not defending that S1 had some weird moments, just saying it's evidently something that's being moved on from.
I moved from hating 6713 to adoring it because it became clear it wasn't just "protag needs a love interest uhh first woman we found works" it's that he actually adores her. And that she cares too. I wrote another analysis a LONG time ago - one of my first ones - about how Thirteen is a complex character but it's offensive to her character to try to boil it down to "tsundere" because that's not what she is. She didn't like Seven at first and she's growing to like him, and she's made genuine attempts to stop pushing him away and to embrace that she likes him, but she's doing it at the pace of a woman who was told she was never allowed to have emotions. Thirteen lost herself in a sorrowful, revenge filled ideal and Seven reminded her that's not why she wanted to learn to fight, that's not why she wanted to become stronger. 6713 is a two way street and you gotta acknowledge that the writers aren't making her some tsundere who always cared but couldn't say it, she grew to love Seven because of the best parts of him. She grew to care about him and fought through a fair amount of her trauma and forsook a very comfortable and familiar life to protect him in S3.
My point being - I'm not sure how jumbled this is - that yes, the first season was weird at points, but beyond that they changed directions and turned it into something else. So it's fine to dislike the way season one was handled, but also even if you're not a fan of the ship or think it's only platonic on Thirteen's side, you have to acknowledge that Seven's character is being handled a lot better now and Thirteen is growing to like him. I wouldn't go as far to say he sexually harassed her - from my memory at least - but yes, I admit, it was cringe and creepy at first, and I used to hate it too.
I really like stressing how special the moments where he saves her are because he never touches her - he never violates that boundary because she obviously isn't comfortable with it. But aside from this respect for this boundary all of these saves are last second, he has such belief and faith in Thirteen that he doesn't ever jump in unless he is genuinely blacked out living a flashback or he knows she needs help. He know she's strong, and independent, and can handle herself, but he also knows everyone needs help sometimes and he'll always be there to catch her because he loves her. He believes and trusts in her so much that at the end of S3/start of S4 instead of jumping in, instead of rushing to grab her, instead of any of that, all he does is lend her the Thousand Demon Daggers. All he does is bend the sword to her will - and he believes and trusts and loves her so much that he believes that whatever she's doing is right. Thirteen can't control that sword, they established that really early on. That was Seven fully and completely loving and trusting her. Is Thirteen all the way to that complete level of love and trust? No, but she's getting there. It's happening.
If I remember right, I stopped hating like right at the end of season 2. I legit bawled when season 2 ended - before season 3 came out - and it was right when I started easing into the thought of 6713 and then season 3 put the nail in the coffin. I started liking it when it started being clear that Thirteen was an active participant in the game. All this to say I hope I get 6713 content in season 5 (no one spoil it for me I'm still waiting till it hits netflix) and if I don't get a real consenseual kiss in the next two seasons I'm gonna put my head through the fucking wall. And if anyone wants to like debate or talk about this further I'm happy too as long as we're all chill and calm about it
i do agree with this a lot prev - to be clear i fully believe so far in the show there's been like no time and there's been no reason for it and that it hasn't really been thirteen's style. and i DO like that , that like the development of the relationship has been like subtle and the way they express care for each other, not an idealized version of it. i don't know if one will ever happen, and i'm okay if it doesn't, i just hope one happens later on in a way that DOES fit them yk. because compeltely biasedly i'm a shipper thru and thru and i'm smashing them together like barbie dolls
the thousand demon daggers save in s3 is like, to an obscene degree, the most intimate and maddening thing to ever happen ever in this show, because it's so perfectly Them and also it Fit and felt Right. i mostly hope that we get more scenes like that one. i could talk about it all day because it makes me so insane. i hopeeee really bad we get more moments like this on screen. we already had one similarly-ish intimate moment in s3 that we didn't see on screen that i mourn every fucking day
oh I would love to hear more about the TDD shield scene from you. I just love what that whole section of the series. I kinda think of it as the pre-climax of 1367 (and by extension thirteen's character) since it comes right before the blackbird fight.
i'm sure everybody who's ever read more than three of my posts would love to hear more about that scene from me excluding incoherent wailing and screaming and shrieking and sobbing and me hitting the same three points over and over and over and over again to stress truly how deeply it has shooken me to my core. tdd scene is the one scene i have yet to write a real analysis or talk about in full length because my brain fucking shuts down whenever i try. i just devolve to kicking and screaming. i was the fan that was serviced. i don't know how to explain the tension and relief when he's ontop of her is so physically overwhelming to me it makes me want to burst out of my skin like a molten tarantula
i think of how literally earth shattering it was for thirteen that she chose to turn her back around the tramua bonded blazed path she had been barreling down with her master because seven made her remember why she wanted to learn how to fight and within genuine minutes it is reaffirmed how much he loves her back and fought through the poison SHE admisntered on him to risk his life to save her. like you an literally see it on her face after he gets up how earth destroying this was and i just fucking crumple like wet paper.
if anyone wants real constructed thoughts on this scene i need specific questions asked to me and a solid two days of screaming and punching a wall buffering in order to answer it
SORRY I KNOW THIS POST IS SUPER OLD but me and my friend were discussing 7x13 flaws (she doesnt like the ship and i do) and as i was writing my own rant on their flaws we had discussed i scrolled through tumblr and found this absolute gem that literally described everything i brought up about them PERFECTLY
her reasoning is how they didnt have the chance to properly develop in season 1 (they kissed once and he just began liking her) and i understand this completely and why it would make it super easy to dislike them
The reason why I love the ship so much is because (from what you can see in all my rants) i really enjoy evaluating all of their actions behind what is shown on the screen, if i were to judge them just plainly on what the series shows us, i probably wouldnt like them as much as i do now. Their writing kind of requires you to find the bigger picture and to analyze what they do, theres a ton of weight behind their actions that isnt quite as conveyed as much as i wish it were in the series. Because it begins as a comedy, unfortunately they arent developed as nicely as id wish BUT like bonnie says it quickly shifts beginning the next season, and attempts to develop them even deeper. The only problem with this where i could understand people still disliking it is that all of sevens actions are done where he already likes her, and there isnt a long period of time we get where he can slowly bring himself to like her because season 1 was silly
