Natali.Dracula

My argument: Marius de Romanus is, fundamentally, a lawfully good character.

Yes, I heard the collective shriek from here. “But CANVAS,” you cry, “how can he be lawful good when—”

No, no. Sit down. Some of us actually studied Roman history beyond TikTok slideshows narrated by someone with a ring light.

Let's begin.

Armand: First of all, Armand was not considered a child within the legal and social framework of late 15th century Venice, which is the actual historical period we are discussing. You do not have to like Renaissance social structures. I certainly do not recommend recreating them. But historical contextualisation is not optional simply because modern audiences find it uncomfortable. Armand was around fifteen when Marius took him in during Renaissance Venice under Agostino Barbarigo. At that time, fifteen would have been considered marriageable age, employable age, and socially transitional into adulthood. This was not unusual in Venetian society. It was not unusual in most of Europe.

And before somebody starts typing: “Well that’s still wrong by modern standards!” Yes. Congratulations. You have discovered the passage of time. History departments worldwide are thrilled by this breakthrough.

The point is not whether you personally approve. The point is whether Marius behaves outside the moral and legal framework of the societies he inhabits. And overwhelmingly, he does not. That is precisely what makes him lawful.

Pandora: Now let us move onto Pandora, because I can already hear someone frantically opening Wikipedia in another tab. First of all: her name at the time was Lydia. Some of you truly speak on these books with the confidence of wet parchment.

And yes, Marius intended to marry her young. And historically? That was normal for elite Roman families. Under Augustan marriage legislation, particularly the Lex Julia de Maritandis Ordinibus (I know! google it) and later the Lex Papia Poppaea, Roman aristocratic society heavily incentivised marriage and childbirth. Augustus was obsessed with restoring what he viewed as traditional Roman morality after the civil wars. Elite Roman girls could legally be betrothed around age ten and legally married at twelve.

Now here is the part that makes me laugh every single time because nobody talks about it because most of you are too busy virtue signalling to use that squishy thing behind your eyes.

I genuinely think Marius may also have been dodging taxes.

Because Ancient Rome literally fined elite unmarried men. The Augustan reforms penalised unmarried aristocrats and childless couples because Rome wanted babies, heirs, and future citizens. If you were a wealthy Roman male not marrying and reproducing, the state viewed you as failing your civic duty.

HOWEVER.

If you were engaged, you could avoid certain penalties. Which means Marius becoming engaged to Lydia before legal marriage age may very well have functioned as the ancient Roman equivalent of: “Fine, fine, I’ll get married eventually, now stop auditing me.” This is the most Roman thing imaginable, honestly.

Now do I agree with everything Marius has done? No, of course not. I am not particularly fond of the way he speaks about women at times, especially intelligent and witty women. There are moments where his worldview is painfully shaped by the fact he is, at his core, an aristocratic Roman man born before the birth of Christ. Shocking, I know. And honestly, I think some people flatten him too much in both directions. Either they turn him into a flawless saint or they try to frame him as some cartoon villain draped in velvet. He is neither.

Marius is deeply paternalistic. He can be arrogant, controlling, emotionally repressed, patronising, and frustratingly convinced he is the smartest person in the room. Which, to make matters worse, he usually is. Insufferable trait in a man, truly. (I personally still believe I could go toe to toe with him in a debate)

But I also think people ignore the fact that many of his contradictions are exactly what make him believable as a product of his time and class. Roman elite society was profoundly patriarchal. Men of Marius’s status were raised to value hierarchy, order, lineage, education, civic duty, and masculine authority above almost everything else. Women, even intelligent women, existed within that structure.

And yet despite that, Marius repeatedly surrounds himself with intellectually formidable women. Pandora/Lydia is sharp, educated, independent, and politically aware. Bianca is cultured and perceptive. He is clearly drawn to intelligence even when it unsettles him or challenges his authority. In many ways, I think he admires intelligent women while simultaneously not fully knowing what to do with them once they stop orbiting his worldview politely.

Which, frankly, is a problem men have been having since the invention of civilisation.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! i love nielan!!!