Lola Babylon

Brendon loves Nevermind, cool. (Don't think I've seen the original Panic guys discuss Grunge much).

Then he says, he bought Nevermind with his own money when it came out. And he was shocked and upset when Kurt Cobain died. My eyes boggled a bit at this, realising that

WTF, when Kurt died Brendon was six years old! (He turned 7 a few days later).

And it he'd bought Nevermind when it came out, as he said, he would have been four or five. Isn't that a little young - okay, way too young - to imagine a kid in an observant Mormon family buying and being allowed to listen an album by a band whose lead singer was constantly in the media accused of being a drug fiend contributing to the downfall of American youth?

And apparently Brendon's friends at the time, presumably also six and seven year olds, were all into it too.

The first time I heard Nevermind, it changed my life. But I was on the cusp of my teens. For all I adore it it's not exactly the most accessible album for a kindergarten aged kid to develop an appreciation for.

I don't think Brendon is actively lying here, though. He's got a history of mixing up the timings of life events. My guess is he knew enough by the time Kurt died to know who that was, and it's gotten scrambled in his memory with listening to Nevermind when he was much older.

When they first met, Ryan was 19. Keltie was a few months shy of 25. Ryan turned 20 the day before the 2006 VMAs... The day they first properly talked and shared their first kiss. Keltie wrote in her book she felt a "strange connection" to Ryan.

That's lovely. But five years is also a massive age gap between 20 and 25 - a chasm of life experiences and maturity. Keltie had already been married and divorced by then.

I'm not saying there was anything wrong/inappropriate with Keltie being attracted to Ryan. I might have kissed a hot 20 year old at 25 myself. But I wouldn't see a relationship that could go anywhere, because of the age and maturity gap.

Per her book, Keltie clearly wanted to settle down long term with Ryan. She was now 26, 27, ages where some people are thinking more of settling down. There's nothing wrong with that, except Ryan was 21/22, when most people aren't thinking of such things. Let alone someone who'd achieved sudden fame so quickly so young.

It was a bad situation for them both, but I do feel Keltie either should have been realistic about Ryan being so much younger than her, or called things off earlier. And it definitely colours reflections like this... In posts about what a mess their relationship was, the maturity gap isn't mentioned much but it was definitely a factor.

It's okay to get excited, but be realistic.

Likely only Jon, Spencer and Ryan will be there. Brendon retired from Panic to spend more time with his young family. He hasn't said he's coming back. We need to respect his choices.

Whilst I don't think there's any huge animosity between Ryan and Brendon - people just grow apart - I like to imagine the first time Ryan heard the song Me!, upon hearing Brendon sing "you can't spell awesome without me", he burst out laughing so hard he spat out his beverage.

He muttered to himself sarcastically "this is what people say I should have hung around for", then said out loud "Dude. Dude. What? 🤣"

But Panic should have opened Pretty. Odd. with a cover of "Serve the Servants" by Nirvana instead of "We're So Starving".

Imagine Ryan singing "Teenage angst has paid off well, but now I'm bored and old". It would have been perfect, even if Brendon took over the rest of the vocals. (Though them both singing in harmony would probably have worked best).

From Kurt Cobain's journals:

Initially, this song was about coming of age during a time where you’re old enough to support yourself without the aid of your parents, a theme for the twenty-somethings, if you will. I’ve always felt that a person doesn’t necessarily have to force themselves to love their parents simply because of blood. If you don’t like your parents or relatives, don’t fake it. Tell them how you feel and in my own way, I decided to let my father know that I don’t hate him. I simply don’t have anything to say and I don’t need a father-son relationship with a person whom I don’t want to spend a boring Christmas with. In other words, I love you. I don’t hate you. I don’t want to talk to you.

But even without that context, I still think it would have been an awesome serve. I've never seen any pre spilt interviews with the band where they mention listening to or liking Nirvana though. I had some friends born in the mid 80s, and through their live journals and the live journals of their friends, I noticed at the time a tiny bit of backlash against Nirvana. It was like "ugh, all the 25 year olds raving about Nirvana. No thanks, our generation has our own music we like". Or maybe none of them liked Nirvana, and that's okay, we can't all like everything.

Anyway, three things:

I've compared Panic to The Strokes, and said they should have covered Nirvana. Coming up next week, my comparative analysis of Panic at the Disco and Tool 😁🎸

This was meant to be a short post, "Serve the Servants" came on in my car and I thought "this would have been a great song for Panic." Take That once played "Smells Like Teen Spirit" in their live shows and if they can cover Nirvana anyone can.

Whilst it's great to see the occasional photos of Ryan Ross out and about, I regret to report that the Sad Beige Aesthetic Overlords have gotten to him, too.

Ryan used to be known for his constantly changing but always quirky and individualistic style. But in every single photo of him we've seen in the last few years, he's leaning into sad beige.

He went so far into sad beige, he started doing hair to match.

To everyone who made fun of his paisleys: LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY NOW.

Maybe Ryan has simply picked a single style, to avoid decision making fatigue while focusing on his creative pursuits. Maybe he's making a deliberate statement on how men's fashion choices are perceived. (Maybe someone stole all his clothes again?)

But when I see the endess practical neutrals he's sported in recent years, all I can think of is Ryan as one of Werner Herzog's Sad Beige Children.

Please bring back...any other look. All is forgiven. (Well, maybe not the toothpaste hair).

There's a weird narrative in certain sections of fandom that after going through the horrible experience of being cat fished through text message by a stalker impersonating Brendon in 2013, Ryan Ross retreated like a wounded bird from all social media, never to be seen online again.

If you've found this post through the Ryan Ross tags, we'll assume you're familiar with the story of the Panic! stalker; if not, the best write up is this one from Reddit, I don't want to give them anymore publicity.

Being cat fished is horrible experience; to have it happen publicly in the guise of someone who was once a close friend must have been a ghastly experience. But however Ryan dealt with it, it wasn't by suddenly abandoning all public life, or at least online public life, in 2013. He kept posting casual shots on insta for years. All of these are photos Ryan chose to share publicly on his official instagram account, thisistherealryanross, so posting these may be a breach of IP rights but not a breach of privacy. You can see the dates they were posted on the lower right corner of the images, or go to his instagram account and check for yourself.

2014

2015

2016

2017

2018

2019

And I just wanted to add a link to this video of Dottie, because she's just so darn cute. (There's a tonne of cute Dottie posts, but the lady has her own Tumblr so I'll leave it at that).

Ryan does seem to have stopped posting any personal or social pics in 2020, but that was such a batshit crazy year who knows what any of us were doing? If he decided to step back from social media, if that was a decision that worked for him then and still does now, cool. (Sure we'd like to see a few more pics of Dottie and Elwood, but if not, we're not owed).

A question I'd be more interested in, is whether he regrets that Panic got so big so quickly? Does he ever wish they'd had more time to mature, musically and individually, and to develop their sound and fan base over time? It may not have been likely from a clashing personalities point of view but I'm most interested in how he views the situation as a musician, whether he ever wishes they'd had more opportunities to focus on the music, which is hard to do when you're 19/20 years old and suddenly facing a crazy situation like Panic were thrown in when AFYCSO blew up.

I'd kind of compare Panic's situation to that of The Strokes with Is This It and the media frenzy that created, except The Strokes:

Were just a couple of years older - which makes a huge difference at that age;

Broke big just before the early days of social media and didn't have the teenage fan base with all the intense scrutiny, bandom and shipping;

Refused to do anything "commercial" (you wouldn't see them on a tour sponsored by a car manufacturer) so The Strokes kind of handicapped themselves with sales and promotion right there.

Also as opposed to Ryan, Julian Casablancas is the primary songwriter and lead singer, which gave him a control over his band that Ryan didn't have.

Just thinking out loud, but if Ryan gives any interviews in the future I'd like someone to ask him how he feels about this as a musician, rather than asking him about a quip he made about spray cheese 20 years ago.

About shippers, though.

The Strokes provided so, so much source material for shippers. What Brendon and Ryan hinted at in their stage act...

The Strokes spelled outall the damn time.

Then there was whatever Julian had going on with Jack White.

A direct quote from Jack White: "Julian stayed at my house and slept in my childhood bedroom, even wore my pajamas. He came into my room in the middle of the night thinking it was the bathroom and we laughed." (From Meet Me In The Bathroom)

Oh bandom shippers, why are you searching for crumbs from Petekey when there is this much juicy meat to gnaw on?

I'm not implying that the Strokes had greater artistic integrity than Panic for rejecting commercial opportunities. For most bands, the dream is just to be able to support yourselves financially by making music, and even if you achieve that it can end at any moment. If you're offered commercial opportunities, you pretty much have to take them; this could be the one shot you have to establish some financial security beyond the grind of life as a touring musician. That wasn't an issue for the Strokes - (in)famously, most of them came from wealthy backgrounds. They could afford to say no to commercial opportunities - even if that didn't make sense to people in their inner circle. To quote Amanda de Cadenet, wife of Strokes guitarist Nick Valensi: "They're the band that turned down a million dollars for some Heineken ad. That's dumb. Ryan [Gentiles, the Strokes long time manager] has taken a lot of flak for not being able to do things that we all think they should have done, but nobody can get these fuckers to do anything they don't want to do." (Again from Meet Me In The Bathroom).

Two years after the release of AFYCSO, PATD fans were crying out for new music from the boys, and curious as to what they'd been working on during their stay in a cabin in the mountains of Nevada (which actually wasn't that isolated ... Mount Charleston is less than an hour's drive from Summerlin; Brendon would pop home to have dinner with his family during this time).

The band debuted material they'd been working on at Summerfest in Milwaukee on July 7 2007, playing a then untitled song later dubbed "True Love" amongst the bandom.

And the reception was not enthusiastic. To quote Pretty Odd Fever:

"I genuinely loved the song, so its reception still makes me a little sad. It felt like the majority of fans completely hated it and were absolutely brutal. There were seriously thousands of comments online tearing the band apart. Even fans who were at Summerfest said the crowd didn’t seem too impressed with the new song.

Yes, the song was a repetitive fairy tale cliche… but who knows where it fit into the album’s storyline or what the tone actually was! Brendon said that a lot of the cabin album was satirical.

[...]

Basically, a huge amount of people were hating on the lyrics (but some people still seemed to love the melody, Brendon’s vocals, or other small parts). The band absolutely saw what so many people were saying online. There’s no way they could’ve missed that even if they didn’t lurk (which Jon did). Right after Summerfest they decided to scrap the cabin album and completely start over. The album’s release date had been pushed back before Summerfest, though, so it sounded like the band was maybe already uncertain about their new material before the overly negative response."

Had PATD already decided to scrap the songs they'd been working on at the cabin before Summerfest? Or was it the audience reaction to the debut of "True Love" that caused them to rethink their musical direction and start over? Some fans still want to know what happened in Seattle (nothing) or what happened in Cape Town (nothing to do with any relationship between Brendon and Ryan) but goddamn it, I want to know what happened in the cabin.

We do know, though, that Ryan was getting massively into the Beatles about this time. Which is fine, but the course of PATD history might have been different if he'd had a Led Zeppelin phase instead. Because Led Zeppelin know something about a band's art being disdained on first hearing, and if Ryan had known his Zep history he'd have known that Stairway to Heaven was also hated by the fans on first performance.

Stairway to Heaven starts with the sounds of recorders - recorders! - before taking the listener on an almost 8 minute long aural journey across mythology, folk rock, hard rock, and a lengthy Jimmy Page guitar solo. And for all that it was hailed as a masterpiece in subsequent years, early audiences hated it. Unsure of what exactly they were hearing, they'd whistle and boo with derision, stamping their feet until the song was done and they could get back to rocking out to Whole Lotta Love. As Led Zep bass player John Paul Jones said of the the audience response to Stairway's live debut in March 1971, "They were all bored to tears waiting to hear something they knew." It wasn't until Stairway to Heaven began to receive radio play later in 1971 that the appreciation, which would later grow into adoration and obsession over the song, began.

So maybe if Ryan had been into Led Zeppelin in 2007, he'd have noted the audience reaction to True Love and said "who cares if they don't like it now? People didn't like Stairway to Heaven when they first heard it, and look at how that went." Of course for Led Zep, audience reaction was limited to what the audience saw on the night and fan chatter after shows; there were no forums or Live Journal or YouTube videos allowing fans to be on the lnternet within minutes registering their disgust throughout the world.

Remember how Keltie Colleen/Knight wrote a book recounting how she spent two years infantilising Ryan Ross and not liking him very much, only to be all shocked Pickachu face when - according to her - he cheated on her, if that's what happened (they broke up and made up multiple times in at least the last few months they were ostensibly a couple). Either way, Keltie wrote a book, kicking off "My Man Did Me Wrong" as her entire personality for the next decade.

Yeah, that book, the one she gave a five star review on Goodreads.

She gave her own book a five star review.

Yes, it's her: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/968085

After all these years, none of her friends have ever noticed this and told her, so she can take it down?

Don't worry. He's not.

Ryan Ross fans continue to wait patiently for any sign of new music from him. Some loved his work in Panic at the Disco, some are huge fans of his solo releases and live performances captured on YouTube, And as long as you're into pretty looking guys, there's a Ryan Ross for every bisexual taste. Hold up. Is it not kinda weird that he looked so very different in every six month period?

Where is he, the prodigious beautiful boy whose creative vision propelled an early Panic at the Disco to their early fame? It's like it was never real.

It was never real. Ryan Ross does not exist.

"Ryan Ross" was only ever a dream, an alternative persona Pete Wentz created in 2004. Pete wanted to delve further into his adolescent experiences in song lyrics, but fearing the ridicule that would come if Fall Out Boy, now all well into their twenties, started exploring such themes, Wentz brooded over what to do before deciding he could create a new band. He'd find young, talented performers for the positions of lead singer, drums and bass who would perform as themselves; but Pete would insert himself into the band via an avatar, a brooding, Chuck Palanhiuk reading lyricist who would exorcise Pete's teenage demons through the character of "Ryan Ross".

Pete drafted a back story for Ryan Ross - a young kid from Vegas who'd found solace in words and music - then scouted for young, unknown performers who could embody his Ryan Ross character. Any performer who would play the Ryan Ross character obviously had to be able to sing at least well enough to perform live harmonies, and to play guitar. But there are hundreds of young musicians with these skills. And whilst viewing yet another stack of videos of guitar playing 18 year olds who'd responded to the ad that simply asked for audition tapes from young admirers of Blink 182, MCR and FOB who were interested in playing guitar in a new band, Pete hit on an idea.

After all, if he cast an upcoming new performer as "Ryan Ross" in the new band he was putting together, and the band hit it big, surely that person would demand to be outed to the public as their real selves. The intention was always for any musician performing as Ryan Ross to sign an NDA as part of their contract, but Pete could envision a nightmare scenario two or three years into the hopefully successful career of the band he was putting together; a musician tired of the lie and wanting their own share of glory telling him "hey Pete, sure you write the lyrics, but it's me who is up on stage, playing the music, singing, on the magazines, in the webzines. I want people to know it's me, not this imaginary Ryan Ross character".

If that happened, no NDA would be worth as much as the outcry from the media and fans, as much as a musician who signed a contract as a naive teenager would demand as a seasoned performer with years of touring under his belt.

Realising this, Pete hit on the evil genius element of his whole scheme (and also a lyric for London Beckoned Songs About Money Written by Machines). There wouldn't be one Ryan Ross. Instead, from the time he first hyped up the band in blog posts in 2005, there would be a continually rotating cast of "Ryans"; every few months, there would be a new guitarist clad in skinny jeans and ennui to take over the role of Ryan, ensuring that no individual "Ryan" would ever believe they had enough star power to pull the whole project down.

These are all pictures of the same person? Really?

With high school friends Brendon, Spencer and Brent, and the first of the "Ryan"s in place, Pete's Panic project hit the ground running. There's was even an adorable story of how Pete discovered the band when Fall Out Boy fan Ryan sent him his new band's demos via Live Journal - simultaneously an "it might happen to you" moment for the Millennial generation, and prompting baffled takes on what this internet thing means for music from older music journalists.

That origin story was the closest anyone got to pulling back the curtain on the Wizard of Emo. The true origins of Panic at the Disco - how and why Pete and Ryan actually made the initial connection that made Pete listen to a fan's demos, drive to Vegas to listen to their band barely able to play their instruments live, then sign said band on this slim basis - was a murky, kalaedoscopic story, "details shifting between each telling of the tale[...] details behind how they made contact, and what was said, are eternally changing and never told quite the same way twice". No wonder, when it entered the record on the basis of a Pete Wentz needing to obscure the truth, and a succession of Ryans reciting for interviewers someone else's memory of what never happened.

But the obvious part of the deception - the fact that "Ryan Ross" never looked like the same person from one season to the next? Pete could barely believe he got away with it, but he did. No one seemed to question it. Fans eagerly took up the myth of Ryan Ross, expanding on an invented history to begin Ryan's story from his birth in Summerlin, Nevada in 1986, despite that before development of the residential community commenced in 1988 Summerlin was empty land - how apt that the boy who did not exist was born in a place that did not exist.

Journalists who slept through the lectures on fact checking on their way through college added this (mis)information to their articles, further obscuring the record.

Initially shocked he was pulling the deception off, by the end Pete glowered at his success getting in away with it.

For the potential Ryans were not simply a series of lookalikes. Aside from musical skills and a willingness to subsume their identity in the face of endless touring and inane interviews, potential "Ryans" were mostly selected on finger length, and for their noses; every "Ryan" has a beautiful nose.

Each new Ryan was put through an intensive Panic boot camp; several weeks of learning the bands songs, memorising the back story of the band and Ryan himself, studying videos of the "standard" Ryan mannerisms before joining the band for rehearsals. With Pete himself having the final say, producers scouting for potential Ryans generally stuck to contenders from the south west USA to ensure a consistent accent; although vocal coaches worked with each "Ryan" to develop the trade mark mono tone, the brief experiment in hiring a British performer to play Ryan in 2008 nearly ended in disaster when he kept slipping into his native accent, which to Pete's eternal amusement has gone down in fandom history as the "real", American Ryan trying to sound English.

But even though the music press, and even the rabidly devoted fandom, never seemed to catch on to the fake Ryans, problems inevitably arose. It was easy to get 18 year old guitarists to agree to the stringent conditions required to be Ryan Ross; but despite that Pete allowed some leeway from the performers, allowing them freedom in their social lives and styling choices to reflect the maturing of a real young person, by the time 22 year olds were hired to be Ryan, fresh in on the scam they may have lacked the star power to use Panic to launch their own careers but they were still young men exposed to more money and adulation than they'd seen before, and some of them were making questionable choices.

By 2009, Brendon and Spencer were sick of the lies. They just wanted to continue the music. Pete Wentz saw how Brendon in particular had blossomed in skills and confidence through the years. He also saw the way the commercial winds were blowing - the introspective lyricism of "Ryan Ross" was out, to judge from the reception on its release of Pretty. Odd. On top of all this, "Ryan Ross" was now ostensibly 22; too old to sing about the trials of late adolescence, which had been Pete's reason for creating his Ryan alter ego in the first place.

Seeing the potential long term appeal in a Brendon-driven Panic, Pete told Brendon and Spencer to go forth as Panic at the Disco with his blessing...and let's never mention Ryan again.

Pete's scouting skills weren't impeccable. He let the original band bring along their friend Brent as bass player, despite his shaky skills and apparent lack of commitment. Brent may have played little part in the creation of the band's first album and definitely found touring not to his taste, and he was soon replaced with the far more talented and present Jon Walker, who already had a respectable pedigree in the Chicago scene that spawned Fall Out Boy. Jon participated, albeit reluctantly, in the Ryan charade, forming a close friendship and musical kinship with the last of the fake Ryans. When Pete informed the group that his dream of the fake Ryans was coming to an end, Jon decided to follow this last Ryan, forming the group The Young Veins. Whilst they both appreciated the musicianship, Jon grew increasingly frustrated with the Ryan charade, having to continue the lie of Ryan Ross as the last of the Ryans remained bound by the non disclosure agreement. With sales of the Young Veins debut album not matching the hopes of its creators, Jon left and the band split after just one year.

And thus ended the contractual existence of "Ryan Ross", creation of Pete Wentz.

Some think Brendon looks startled when Ryan is mentioned. It's not because Ryden was ever a thing. There was no Ry for Bren to Den with, just an ever changing cast of young musicians hired by Pete Wentz to be his avatar. When Brendon pauses now he's not lamenting his lost love. He's reflecting on the lie he had to keep up for years and thinking "wait, what was the official line again?"

The Ryan Ross character has been occasionally revived in recent years as a conceptual art project by the musician Z Berg, teasing an album that never arrives, with the role of Ryan in occasional public appearances performed by a few of the former Ryans who are in on the joke. The Ryan Ross character made his last public appearance in 2022, joining former Panic label mates Phantom Planet for a live performance of Do the Panic - a wink to long standing fans of PATD/"Ryan Ross" (and a song that sounds like a dual pastiche to Pumping on Your Stereo by Supergrass and Just What I Needed by The Cars; there really is nothing original under the sun).

There will never be a reunion of the original, "real" Panic at the Disco because the original Panic at the Disco was never real. There will never be a Ryan Ross album because there is no Ryan Ross. Maybe in some future memoir Pete Wentz will tell us all how it was done.