āāāāąØą§āāāā
ā” subsists on spite and the tears of antis who can't properly tag their goddamn posts ā”
delusional takes that lack basic critical analysis skills are burned in effigy daily
ā'Til I don't look for you on the staircase, Or wish you thought that we were still soulmates...ā
āI just wonder sometimesā¦You know, if some other girl had given me a proper thump before we met would things have been different? Like, if we were meeting together for the first time right now part of me, I donāt know, part of me thinks we would have made it."
"I see your shadow, I see it even with the lights off."
"But I left one part out. It's the most important part. You're there. You've always been there."
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This was a big problem I had with the series finale and the way they wrote Jonathan: It was painfully obvious that the Duffer Brothers were trying to overcompensate for how much of an asshole Jonathan was this season (while also being a wet blanket in general for multiple seasons now), and they waited until the last episode to try and rehabilitate him. It's why they had Jonathan save Steve from falling off the tower. It's why they have Jonathan try to assert a leadership position, as well as his designated "awesome" moment with the flamethrower. It's why there's more of a focus placed on Jonathan's reaction to Nancy using herself as bait for the Mind Flayer after Jonathan spent the majority of this season (as well as the past 2-3 seasons) being a shitty boyfriend to her.
The issue, however, is the writing doesn't do justice to make these moments earned. There's been no build-up, as well as no growth or character development on Jonathan's part, to justify him taking on a leadership role (especially when he's spent most of this season either being unhelpful, passive, confrontational, or with his head up his own ass), which makes it awkward and out of left-field when he then tries to assert that position. Even people I've talked to outside of the fandom who watched the series finale have told me how weird that was. It doesn't help that it also comes off like Jonathan's piggybacking off of Steve's beanstalk plan to get credit as well. š It reminds me of "Sorcerer" when Steve proposed the "peanut butter bopper" theory and drove through the gate (a decision Nancy gave approval for) while Jonathan was yelling unhelpful comments in his ear. It's only after they made it through that Jonathan exclaims "We did it!" (No, Steve did it).......and it still doesn't stop Jonathan from trashing Steve's bopper theory at the church later. š
Then there's Jonathan saving Steve. I've been very blunt in previous posts about how lazy and cliche this was writing-wise. It's a cheap way to absolve Jonathan for being an insecure, petty jackass towards Steve for 19 months while also rewarding him with a friendship/camaraderie with Steve that he doesn't have to put in the work for. This was not like how Robin/Steve in S3 or Steve/Eddie in S4 developed organically, where both sides started out wary with one another, but genuinely worked through their respective preconceived notions over the course of those seasons (while actually making efforts to find common ground) so that when those friendships came to fruition, they would be earned. By contrast, Jonathan made it very clear he had zero interest in getting along with Steve, was determined to see the worst in Steve no matter what, and purposefully projected his issues onto Steve for months on end. It wasn't until Jonathan burned his relationship with Nancy to the ground that Jonathan had any interest in being nice to Steve, which (regardless of whether or not this was unintentional) makes it look like Jonathan's only willing to get along with people when it's convenient for him. And even then, it didn't stop Jonathan from throwing Steve's 'six little nuggets' speech back in Steve's face in a way that was mean-spirited (Steve looked genuinely hurt when he realized Nancy told Jonathan about that). All of this was done to sell the audience on the idea that they're best buddies in the epilogue, and it falls flat. This "friendship" (if we can even call it that) is such an afterthought by the Duffer Brothers that it's insulting. The fact Steve and Jonathan can only bond over Nancy, as opposed to numerous other similarities between them (i.e. both characters taking on the role of "big brother," both protecting LGBT+ individuals, both shouldering responsibilities, etc) only highlights that the writers weren't willing to put in the effort to develop this friendship in a way that didn't make it shallow. š
Then there's the focus on Jonathan's reactions to Nancy in the final fight against the Mind Flayer and the military. I know some people have accused the Duffer Brothers of trying to push a last-minute Jancy agenda, but I think the more mundane explanation is they wanted to showcase that Jonathan still cared for Nancy as a friend after their break-up, especially since the majority of this show has been Jonathan viewing Nancy through the lens of romantic love interest. The problem, however, is 1.) It comes at the expense of other characters' reactions to Nancy's decision to use herself as bait, and 2.) It's rushed and shoehorned into this episode. Say what you will about Steve and the decision to not have him pair up with Nancy in the epilogue, but when Steve tells Jonathan that he'd rather be Nancy's friend than have no part in her life, it's a moment that's earned because of what we've seen since their break-up in season 2. Regardless of whether or not they ever reconnect, Steve's demonstrated multiple times he will be there for Nancy and values her as a person REGARDLESS of whether he's in a romantic relationship with her. And as we find out this season, Steve was never competing for Nancy the way Jonathan thought he was. Steve was genuine in telling Jonathan and Dustin that he considers Nancy to be his friend. By contrast, Jonathan was only interested in being with Nancy romantically (something season 2 spelled out when he acted resentful over Nancy going back to Steve after she waited a month for Jonathan while she was still grieving over Barbara's death). That's also including how Jonathan selfishly clung to his relationship with Nancy by lying to her for months on end, not supporting her the way she needed to be supported, treating Nancy as a prize to be won in his one-sided pissing contest with Steve, and was only willing to let Nancy go when they were on the brink of death and Jonathan had nothing to lose. So when the series finale puts more of an emphasis on Jonathan's reactions to Nancy during the final battle, it has the unintended effect of making it look like he's still pining for her.
As for the other Jonathan scenes in the finale (i.e. the flamethrower), I doubt most fans will give a crap. From what I've seen, a good chunk of people already consider the final battle against the Mind Flayer and Vecna to be anticlimactic and underwhelming, to say nothing about how it comes off like the Duffer Brothers lost interest in their own mythology by the end. The fact this finale was at best controversial with fans (especially with what happened to El and Kali), and at worst was outright hated (and even compared to the Game of Thrones finale) is going to overshadow any attempt to prop Jonathan up. The writing for Jonathan's character sucked, and the attempts to make Jonathan look better now, after multiple seasons that demonstrate otherwise (as you point out), only emphasizes that point.
ALL OF THIS šš¼šš¼šš¼šš¼ I couldnāt agree more. It truly sickens me that, in order to prop Jonathan up and give him the character growth he lacked from stubbornly remaining stagnant and misanthropic for four seasons, they had to TAKE AWAY the character development that Steve and Nancy rightfully earned so they could all be on the same level. Theyāve endured so much hardship defying their stereotypes throughout the seasons yet none of that matters in the end because J is actually the hero of the story and gets everything he ever wanted in the epilogue despite not working for any of it!!! (makes me laugh how they make all four of them besties now as if J has done anything to earn their friendship. He honestly seems like the friend in the group that nobody likes and whom everyone makes fun of behind his back for being a pretentious prick kshsnsksk). The fundamental problem is that Jās āgrowthā this season was built on Stancyās regression. And all his immaturity is completely erased just because he did what any decent human being would do and didnāt allow someone to plummet to their death????? Not to mention how they basically stole all of Steveās heroic moments, something that has become such an iconic part of the show, and gave them to Jonathan???? Lmaooo anything to make him more likable I guess š¤¦š»āāļøš¤¦š»āāļøš¤¦š»āāļø even though those moments paled in comparison to Steveās and felt so weak/forced/disingenuous. None of his growth was believable tooārather than having him take smaller steps towards being a more mature, well-rounded supporting character, they suddenly had to give him this drastic personality change so people would like him the way they love Steve. Out of the blue heās soooo protective over Nancy, is taking charge and leading the group, is saving the day, is recognizing how special she is???? Pretty hilarious that theyāre basically giving J Steveās leftovers because they have no idea how to make him more palatable to audiences in an organic, authentic way thatās true to his characterš Also hate how they took away Steveās leadership role in order to reduce him back to being the babysitter/big brother character whoās unsuccessful with the ladies. Considering J is the Duffersā self-insert, it doesnāt surprise me that they wanted to turn Steve into the butt of the joke this season and have him not get the girl and stay stuck in Hawkins because the dumb jock shouldnāt get a happy ending ofc! Also pissed me off that they made Nancy treat him like a joke and completely diminished the depth of her feelings for him/their connection, which was clearly established in s4 when she DOVE INTO LOVERS LAKE TO SAVE HIM AS AN UNAMBIGUOUS SIGN OF TRUE LOVE š¤ (in s5 Steve nearly dies yet the only reaction they show is Dustinās in that moment???? And then they have Dustin hugging him whereas Nancy and Robin hug each other and Mike????? Once again forcing this perpetual babysitter role onto Steve at the expense of his other equally meaningful relationships š¤¦š»āāļøš¤¦š»āāļøš¤¦š»āāļøš¤¦š»āāļø) All in all, the divorcegate theories seem very plausible to me after all of this shit writing.
Also have to include these tags because facts šš¼šš¼šš¼šš¼
Knowing that this kind of symbolism is pure happenstance and in no way a reflection of the Duffer Brothersā writing abilities, I find it pretty poetic that the scene where Steve and Nancy are joking around in the pool before they first sleep together in s1 (a scene where theyāre both smiling and laughing as two blissful teenagers so stupidly into each other right before the world saddles Nancy with immeasurable pain and trauma) is set to Modern Englishās āI Melt With You.ā
āI Melt With You,ā a.k.a. a song about making love during a nuclear apocalypse and defiantly clinging to those fleeting moments of intimacy/passion/connection/optimism (āthe futureās open wideā āyou've seen the difference and it's getting better all the timeā) instead of succumbing to the impending end-of-the-world doom and gloomā¦
ā¦whereas in s5 J*nathan and Nancy get trapped in the melting room together, a physical manifestation of how stagnant and suffocating their relationship has become after years of not being vulnerable/transparent with each other, both of them mired in this bleak cesspool of darkness/misery/despair, both held prisoner by their āshared traumaā bond and the horrors of the real world that tied them together in the first place.
Knowing that this kind of symbolism is pure happenstance and in no way a reflection of the Duffer Brothersā writing abilities, I find it pretty poetic that the scene where Steve and Nancy are joking around in the pool before they first sleep together in s1 (a scene where theyāre both smiling and laughing as two blissful teenagers so stupidly into each other right before the world saddles Nancy with immeasurable pain and trauma) is set to Modern Englishās āI Melt With You.ā
āI Melt With You,ā a.k.a. a song about making love during a nuclear apocalypse and defiantly clinging to those fleeting moments of intimacy/passion/connection/optimism (āthe futureās open wideā āyou've seen the difference and it's getting better all the timeā) instead of succumbing to the impending end-of-the-world doom and gloomā¦
ā¦whereas in s5 J*nathan and Nancy get trapped in the melting room together, a physical manifestation of how stagnant and suffocating their relationship has become after years of not being vulnerable/transparent with each other, both of them mired in this bleak cesspool of darkness/misery/despair, both held prisoner by their āshared traumaā bond and the horrors of the real world that tied them together in the first place.
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The Friends comparison also came to mind when I was watching this season of Stranger Things. I've always been someone who preferred Joey/Rachel over Ross/Rachel, mainly because (aside from showing a more sensitive side to Joey) both Joey and Rachel actually looked like they were having fun together while enjoying each other's company. Especially in comparison to the never-ending dramafest that was Ross/Rachel. š
Season 5 permanently soured me towards Jonathan's character and his relationship with Nancy. The only positive thing I can say is they finally broke up (and may it stay like that for the rest of their lives). It's also made me look back more fondly on Stancy in the first two seasons, and how Steve actually had the character development that Jonathan lacked. This includes how Steve was willing to let Nancy go in season 2 without any lingering resentments on his part over having his heart broken, which is a major contrast to how Jonathan selfishly clung to his relationship with Nancy until it deteriorated into a mess of his own making.
The irony is that Joey/Rachel from Friends initially got a negative reception back when that show was airing, but now it's viewed in a more positive light (especially over the last 10 or so years), and is seen as a far better (and healthier) relationship compared to Ross/Rachel. Meanwhile, not only has Ross/Rachel gotten criticized for the various problems in their relationship, but Ross himself has come under fire for his general behavior and entitled "Nice Guy" attitude. There are still a handful of Friends fans on social media (particularly on Reddit) who will make excuses for Ross, but for the most part, he's not held up well with audiences (to the point some online lists rank him as one of the worst TV characters of all time).
In the same vein..........Stranger Things fans might defend Jancy now, but 5-10 years down the line, when the dust has settled and people retrospectively look back on this show.......I wouldn't be surprised if Jancy gets viewed in a harsher light because of how toxic that relationship was. Likewise, I don't see Jonathan aging well as a character. There were already articles like this calling out Jonathan's worst attributes as early as 2017 (back when season 2 first aired), and I have a gut feeling we'll be seeing more articles (or even video essays) like this as the years go by which center on the problems with Jonathan's character and how the narration catered to him.
As for Steve and Stancy.........Steve will undoubtedly continue to endear himself as a character (even with the way things were handled in this final season) because of the growth he's had over the show. And just like with Joey/Rachel on Friends, I could see people overtime looking back more favorably on Stancy as a ship, especially in comparison to how much of a trainwreck Jancy became, and how much of Jonathan's behavior during that relationship reflects poorly on him.
Omg THANK YOU for writing this. I had the exact same frustrations re the Rachel/Ross vs Rachel/Joey love triangle and how the show consistently portrayed the former as these destined soulmates ("she's your lobster") in the same way that the narrative continuously portrayed J*ncy as trauma soulmates and romanticized the instability and toxicity of their relationship. I find it disturbing how these shows will reward "Nice Guy" characters like Ross/Jonathan for "knowing"/āunderstandingā their female love interests more than anyone else when, in reality, they are constantly scrutinizing a womanās flaws and lording it over her head when conflict arises between them.
I think it boils down to so many showrunners/writers wanting to capitalize on the romantic drama of the āopposites attractā trope (because apparently true compatibility is too āboringā to watchš). In the same way that tons of people loved seeing a nerdy, pining guy get the popular girl against all odds in Friends, tons of fans wanted the loner outcast freak to end up with the privileged princess character in Stranger Things. But then the showrunners end up using the charactersā contrasting backgrounds/worldviews to further differentiate them and establish this social class divide between them as a means of upping the star-crossed romantic tensionā¦the problem is that this divide is very apparent to the āNice Guyā characters, who use it as a weapon against their female love interest during their fightsāperceived flaws and traits so often related to their femininity i.e. being naive/privileged/sheltered, having inferior intelligence to the male character, not being tough/serious/authentic enough, being too into her looks, liking too many āgirlyā things, etc.
I also thought that the way they dumbed down Joeyās character in Friends after he had such an earnest, mature, vulnerable arc (coming to terms with his abiding feelings for Rachel) was a complete disservice to his character in the same way that they regressed Steveās character in s5. They took these stereotypically silly, dumb, playboy characters that were deeply changed by their love/respect/admiration for a female characterā¦and then threw all that character development out the window by reducing them back to their former selves. Never mind that these silly dumb jock kind of characters treated their female love interests infinitely better than their āNice Guyā counterparts and never held the female charactersā flaws against them because they were never āflawsā to begin with. It infuriates me that characters like Joey/Rachel and Steve/Nancy will have so many of these lighthearted, genuine, happy moments together where theyāll laugh and smile and have fun/be silly together (Nancyās āhe makes me laughā), yet the narrative will try to paint those moments out to be bad things because theyāre not ādeepā and āseriousā and āpassionateā like Ross/Rachel and J*nathan/Nancy (if you can even call what j*ncy had āpassionateā lmao). Newsflash to these showrunners, itās not Romantic to be constantly miserable and insecure in your relationship. Nor is it considered true āunderstandingā when couples constantly bring up their partnerās flaws/insecurities using targeted personal attacks against them.
@wickedshenanigans sums it up perfectly with these tags too šš¼šš¼
And the way they suddenly had Nancy drop out of Emerson, HER DREAM SCHOOL, in the finale will always leave a bad taste in my mouth in the same way they had Rachel back out of moving to Paris for fashion, HER DREAM JOB, to be with Ross. You already know that if Joey were with Rachel, he would gladly move to Paris to be with her and support her career just as Steve would move to Boston to follow Nancy and support her career ambitions if they were together š¤
ST 2026 I didn't think it could be this bad bingo- pt 2
So there is a phrase you hear a lot when talking about writing stories- be it for novels, television, etc.
Kill Your Darlings. But apparently we live in a world where people don't actually know what that means...
Spoilers Below
Kill your darlings is a phrase that means to get rid of scenes/ lines/characters etc. that while you as the creator may love them, hinder the bigger narrative plot and themes of your work.
This finale went- What if instead of doing that, I just kill the main character in some sort of Full Metal Alchemist style equivalent exchange.
And predictably it didn't work.
Instead we got a bloated ending with more fake outs than a WWE match, no thematic consistency, and a story that repeats an ending from season 1 that no longer makes sense for the characters we have in season 5.
Kill your darlings doesn't mean turn into Game of Thrones and kill all the characters. I honestly expected all of the cast to survive. It means kill the bloat. The things that seem like a good idea when you are brainstorming, but that ultimately lead nowhere and take up time you could have used towards actually character development and plot.
What was the point of spending so much time with Hopper and El arguing about not sacrificing themselves if that was going to be the end game? What did we actually get from the scene in the bigger context of the story?
What was the point of showing Henry as a victim if you are going to turn around and go- actually that was a misunderstanding, he actually wanted him to be evil the whole time because otherwise it would look pretty bad to spend 5 minutes chopping his head off. Which also isn't really explained how he is somehow alive with a giant spike through his entire chest but apparently decapitation is actually the real way to kill him.
What was the point of either love triangle if the ending was going to be everyone is single but also everything is ambiguous enough that the fans can write their own endings and it isn't TECHNICALLY wrong or impossible.
Does the Epilogue that makes the Lord of the Rings: Return of the King look streamlined by comparison actually fit our characters growth and needs, or is it ticking off boxes of moments people want but without justifying them with narrative substance.
Because the story is so overloaded with darlings that are not being killed the actual narrative suffers, both from lack of time and lack of cohesion. And nowhere is that more clear than in El's 'death'.
The fact that it is left as this open ended mystery is itself a darling. You want to have your cake and eat it too, disguising it as "this is Mike telling the story and that somehow makes it meaningful." Only it doesn't. You are trying to tell us it does but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Ironically you can compare it to the song "Every Breath You Take." At first listen you think that it is a love song, it's so meaningful and lovely and plays on our preexisting biases of what a love song should be. But if you think about it for more than 5 seconds it all starts to pull apart. The song isn't a love song at all. Its a song about stalking someone. Something that is actually deeply disturbing and uncomfortable.
Now let's look at El's fate with the same lens:
At first glance, it is noble and dramatic- its a full circle parallel to her season 1 ending so it pulls at our nostalgia. It's sad and self-sacrificing so its 'more adult' and epic. And look it even has the 'it could be a fake out' twist so we get our mystery box too! and she is now getting to experience her happy ending out there in the big wide world with waterfalls and everything!
But the lyrics don't match the song.
For a show that has entirely been about metaphor, what was the end result of those lessons?
What did our characters actually come away learning through this outcome?
Technically speaking, even though they defeated Vecna, the narrative is telling us that trauma wins. Even if El is alive she has to give up everything she cares about to save her friends. The group has to watch their friend and loved one die because there is no way to stop the cycle without death. (don't even get me started on Nancy's continually unaddressed trauma that is its own Bingo) And the outside force that is oppressing our characters and is responsible for this status quo in the first place- the evil government who it turns out are at fault for Vecna's existence- are fine. They live to fight another day. Dr. Kay is STILL THERE. She is just like, whelp back to the drawing board then. The entire thing is so haphazard that there is no actual reassurance that El's sacrifice will even amount to ending the cycle, the one thing it is supposed to accomplish.
Why try to sell your audience on a 'realism' plot when you are actively creating more loose threads? It's a band-aid on a bullet hole, but you are hoping that the audience will be distracted by the fact that it is the same Care Bear band-aids they had as a kid!
But the fact that I am even having to discuss a 'realism' based plot finale means we have already jumped the shark. Because this is a show about Demogorgons and superheroes. We aren't here for the realism, we are here for the symbolism. We are here to grow with and learn with these characters. We are here because we want better for them than what we have in the real world. We want hope. We want inspiration.
Instead we are told- that only happens in stories. In the story.
How thrilling.
But hey they all play DND at the end, isn't that just soooo meaningful. Right?
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Stranger Things Spoilers ahead you have been warned.
How did you take such interesting, well rounded, dynamic characters and squash them into sad little 2-D cut outs in the span of two hours????
I could literally talk about every single character and have an essay's worth of content- seriously at this point the only consistent characters are Dr. Clark (thank God you at least were spared my friend) and Ted Wheeler who is blessedly still in his induced coma. Kinda jealous of Ted.
But for the sake of everyone's sanity I will stick to my precious Stancy babies.
They did you SO SO SO dirty. Not just as a ship but as people... Seriously WTF was this??
I wish we could have said- oh, sadly we didn't get any time for heart to heart conversations because there was too much important action... except it all played like a bad video game where you had 5 minutes of 'action' then we have to sit and wait while dialogue happens that you are like... ok can I skip over this? Will this be relevant to the plot at all? No? Ok cool. Then more action that isn't actually all that meaning full just looks of unearned moments that we are supposed to feel impressed by. It was emotional manipulation cheatcoded in the worst possible way and it just got boring.
The Steve fakeout death? Stupid. It was just stupid and unnecessary because the only purpose it served was to magically fix the Steve Jonathan friendship that maybe 5 Stonathan shippers were actually concerned about. (The rest of them were perfectly content with their slow burn enemies to lovers thank you very much)
You know what else would have fixed that relationship? Jonathan actually having to have some actual F***ing character growth and them having real conversations like adults. Not- Hey I saved your life to prove to everyone that I am not just a stoned out sweater thief who has let my crippling depression bring out the worst in me. See how I am now a fully actualized person. Apparently the only issue I have was solved by my breakup which I am going to tell you about now Steve because that seems like an appropriate thing to talk about right at this moment.
But it's ok, because apparently while Steve himself was rescued his entire personality fell off that tower. Jonathan is now his other best friend because I guess they are trauma bonded now? (Is Steve Jonathan's rebound??? He was awfully pushy about seeing if he would move.) Also he totally got over Nancy like... ages ago. Which... in that case why the hell were you flirting with her LITERALLY YESTERDAY???? Dustin had to have a breakdown about his fear that you were going to get yourself killed for this girl LESS THAN 24 HOURS AGO. But nah man it's cool. She needs to be a girlboss and I have decided that my life is in Hawkins with Derek... a character I have not interacted with at all this entire season but he is a fan favorite so HE is my child now.
Also despite the fact that even in quarantine Hawkins middle/high school (which as far as we know is the only school in this town) was fully operational and therefore fully staffed I will somehow be a fully tenured teacher with no degree in less than 10 months with enough money to buy a house that I dont need in a town that I am completely committed to out of nowhere but also maybe not because I could also just move... I am not really clear on that one. Also this job absolutely gives me the flexibility to commit to our new Poly group hangs in Philly once a month because why remember that airplanes exist when we can crash at Robin's uncles place.
And Nancy. Poor, poor Nancy. Do they hate you? Did someone named Nancy steal the Duffers puppy and drop it down a well???
They actually did reduce you down to just a love triangle... and then didn't even give you anything for it. You came in with a bang and went out like a whimper. But you know you still got to shoot things so clearly you had good character development right? Right? Oh wait sorry you can't talk anymore. LOL. Let me sit here and mourn the loss of the rest of your wardrobe along with your pink sweater. I assume Jonathan came back and stole the rest of it which explains why you are wearing Ted's jacket. And you couldn't stop him because you no longer have any agency left in you. But you know, you had a 2 second flash about Barb while Joyce Chopped of Vecna's head so clearly no trauma left whatsoever.
That definitely isn't the haircut of a girl who is day drinking.
On the bright side, at least you don't need as much therapy as your brother.
I'm so pissed off at the way the Duffers are talking about Jane's ending like she wasn't her own person and instead just a magical being from childhood that the rest of the party needs to get over.
They're describing her like she's Peter Pan. Like she's lamb for slaughter.
This little girl who never had a childhood, who was experimented upon, who was hunted by the government ... represents the magic of childhood to you?
This little girl who given magic through experiments and was forced to use that magic despite it's physical toll by her abuser ... represents magic to you?
For four seasons Nancy has constantly been inundated with other peopleās opinions and biased perceptions of who she is and what she should want. She is repeatedly told what sheās feeling, that sheās too naive to truly understand herself, that her instincts are wrong and cannot be trusted. So youāre telling me that the best ending they couldāve come up for her is that, at the end of the day, everyone telling her that she was just pretending to know herself was ultimately proven right? That she never had a strong grasp of what her mind and heart wanted? That she was just foolishly pretending to be in control of her life and to know her own convictions/desires? That she needs to be shown what āthe real worldā is like because sheās too privileged and sheltered to understand the complexities of life? That her past misogynistic bossesā claims that she was playing pretend-reporter and Murrayās claims that she was this naive schoolgirl who retreated from her ātrue selfā and her own best friendās claims that she wasnāt acting authentically were completely justified? That her dreams of going to Emerson were just childish fantasies that didnāt pan out because she realized that she was clinging to a dream that she didnāt actually want? Even though Jonathan had been deadset on going to NYU since he was six years old and is somehow still validated for having that dream instead of being infantilized or belittled?? All because heās this jaded realist with a traumatic childhoodā¦unlike wishy-washy college-dropout Nancy who lacks focus and āreal worldā experience as a sheltered suburban girl???
Itās such a monumental slap in the face when Nancyās sense of intuition has consistently been proven to be right over the course of four seasons despite the multitude of people who have tried to diminish her sense of self; the problem has never been her inability to be independent or to know what kind of life she wants for herself. It has always been about how her avoidant personality and tendency to emotionally suppress has caused her to isolate herself from others and not confront her own feelings/trauma. So how groundbreaking is it that Nancy, the already fiercely independent individual who is driven and ambitious and career-focused but also deeply lonely, ends up just as closed off, emotionally suppressive, career-focused, and isolated as she was when she first found out she lost her best friend in s1?
This is the ending that Jonathan imagined while high on purple palm tree delight that he smoked during the waiting period between Vol. 2 and Vol. 3.
It all makes so much more sense if you imagine it as Jonathan's stoner vision.
Its narratively incohesive with a weird dash of nihilism.
Vecna is dead but the best we can do is a lackluster bitter sweet ending because we need to live in the real world. Also no need for emotional catharsis, just chop his head of and we can get back to repressing our feelings like good little children.
Jonathan himself gets the best ending- he's off in NY finding himself but with everything totally find with him and completely absolving him of his lack of character growth or inability not to be extremely judgmental in his own right because it all gets handwaved away because he gets some heroic action moments. He and Nancy are better apart but she still gives him the occasional glance because he is cool like that.
Robin exists- she is off at college. Maybe she has a girlfriend? Is that a thing?
Nancy is off finding herself but she quits Emmerson because Emmerson is a stupid dream anyway and always was, so now she can focus on being a journalist, but she needs to work her way up from the bottom with nothing going for her as an intern because that's how the real world works and its what she should have done back at the Hawkins Post. Also maybe she will finally learn to take some criticism on her articles. And wear appropriate business clothes not so much damn pink. Also she isn't with anyone because she needs to be a strong independent woman. That's the real reason Jancy didn't work out.
Steve still hasn't left high school. He thinks Hawkins is awesome and is destined to be another Ted Wheeler. But He isn't terrible I guess. But he is just a nicer version of what he was before. A Jock who is always chasing girls. And he doesn't really have feelings for Nancy he was just competing for her attention this whole time as part of his macho jock complex.
(It also explains why Steve and Nancy never have a single conversation yet continue to still make googly eyes at each other as if to say- yes we know they SHOULD be talking and most likely hooking up but I just want to pretend its not happening.)
El probably dies saving the world because again that is just how life goes. But that is pretty dark so maybe she does survive and gets to just go live life all by herself in the woods. That sounds pretty great right?
Also that way Maybe Will does have a shot with Mike. Its a long shot but hey we don't want to crush his dreams.
Oh and Joyce and Hop can get married but really she needs to move out of Hawkins because it's the worst.
The kids do a public rip off of the Breakfast club while Jonathan gets it all on film and then go play DnD or something.
And Will gets a boyfriend. Or not. Maybe he and Mike can still happen. Honestly whatever makes Will happy.
Yeah... it really does read like a Jonathan stoned out fever dream.
itās been hours and iām still just appalled. Genuinely.
A part of me suspected we wouldnāt get them in the epilogue. I was ready to accept it. I even said āas long as they talk, iāll be fine.ā
But they didnāt. Not once.
They didnāt have a SINGLE moment alone with each other. The last solo scene was a heartfelt confession Nancy never responded to, that was later torn to shreds and turned into some cruel joke.
Itās like they read every antis post and made it true. āShould I have said 4?ā Like, holy shit, I didnāt think it could get any worse from that line but OH it did.
The same two people who almost DIED for each other in this season and last didnāt react when they witnessed each other facing death? Nancy didnāt immediately hug Steve, the same boy she dove into lovers lake for without hesitation after watching him hang off a 500 foot tower? Steve, who almost died on that ladder for her didnāt even FLINCH when Nancy said sheāll be bait? Instead it was Jonathan? Excuse me? I donāt understand why they did this. They had to have known this is strange, right? Did they just do it because they know these two characters have such good chemistry or?? I just cannot wrap my mind around it.
What was the point of season 4? You cannot tell me it was just for drama, because what the fuck? Eddie, a character who was barely even friends with Steve, called from a mile away that she was in love with him. Eddie, who fucking died an episode later. Eddie, who haunted the narrative of all of season 5. Eddie whose speech amounted to NOTHING. A speech that wasnāt even mentioned this season. Not once. They couldāve easily given Steve a girlfriend in season 4. She didnāt even have to be important to the plot, she couldāve just been like Suzie, (who also dissapeared for no fucking reason) an offscreen partner to give our hopeless romantic. But no. Letās have Nancy and Steve eyefuck each other for an entire season. Then, THEN letās have it amount to absolutely nothing!
Since season 3 Steve has been yearning, hoping to find the one. Season 4, there were mac trucks full of hope that āthe oneā finally reciprocated his feelings. But now, heās right back where he started. Single, jumping from meaningless relationship to meaningless relationship, taking a cushy job and staying in the town that did nothing but make his life hell. I donāt understand why they thought this was the best ending for Steve. And youāre seriously telling me heās justā¦ Over Nancy? The girl heās been yearning for since season fucking 2? The girl heās dreamed a future with for years? It is so fucking pathetic for them to just drop everything they did in s4.
Nancy, my poor girl, dropped out of HER DREAM COLLEGE and for what? āTo see the real world.ā A line used nastily in an argument with Jonathan way back in season 3. A line that is so fucking terrible in the context that I am actually appalled they brought back. Sheās regressed further than she wouldāve had she gotten with Steve. No agency of her own (Jonathan did all the talking for her), no love, her college aspirations gone, and for what? So she can be this badass business woman with beige clothes and a karen cut? What happened to her cuteness? Is it wrong to say thatās what I loved most about her? That she can be this gun slinging badass but still be feminine. But they just stripped her of everything and made her what we stancies have been arguing that she isnāt: only a gun slinging badass who needs no comfort or support. What a way to ruin such a complex, loved character.
Robin, what the fuck did they do to her? Sheās just in college? Away from Steve? Those two would follow each other to the end of the earth. Not split up. And whereās Vickie? What happened to them? They were so deeply in love but we never got to see it? Never got to see their date at Enzoās? Vickieās just fucking gone?
Donāt even get me started on El. The Duffers REALLY couldnāt imagine a single scene of her happy? Instead they made her have the most ambiguous, upsetting ending possible? I genuinely thought they said at some point everything would be tied up, no endings like this. El, a child tormented her entire fucking life by everyone in her path, just dies in the end. Just for them to say āmaybe she didnāt. maybe she did.ā She deserves so much more than this.
And I tried to ignore this, but what the HELL is wrong with the teens epilogue outfits? Not trying to be the woker, but whatās with Robins cutsie overalls and off the shoulder blouse? Sheās always been very masc presenting. But her outfit just doesnāt feel like her AT ALL. It feels like Maya. The long hair i accepted, but the clothes just donāt feel like her at all. Steveās fuckass wig is just atrocious, and his outfit is also not like him AT ALL. Why is he dressed like a 50 year old real estate agent? They couldnāt have put him in a sweater? A cool long sleeve? They dressed him up like a beige millennial. Jonathanās haircut, as always, is terrible. Not much to say there. And Nancy. Nancy wheeler, the feminine badass, is now just also a sad beige millennial in business attire. Her fuckass haircut too. Iām sorry iām being hateful but holy shit.
Iām not a Byler, but iād be pissed if I were one. The pause on best friends was just mean as shit. Also, the fact that Noah had to ask the duffers to put that scene in the first place? Insane work by Matt and Ross.
I just donāt understand what went wrong. I know other people are happy with the ending, and iām really trying to see this not through a shippers eye, but this is genuinely terrible fucking writing. No closure, gaping plot holes, no conversation, not even a flinch when Steve almost died. Nothing.
I genuinely half expected Steve to start making out with Jonathan on the roof. Why did we get more Stonathan than Stancy??
Also. ALSO. Why did the camera focus on their hands so hard. Like, genuinely absolutely NO reason for this whatsoever. I wanna read the scripts so badly.
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Much as Steve is my favorite character and I feel like he was underserved by the final season as a whole and the finale in particular, I think Nancy is the character who they most dropped the ball on.
Nancy has been one of the most central characters of the show. Of the "teens" she is the main character, and she's more consistently a focal point than even Will and Mike. And she is still is framed as one of the main characters in this season, they just don't use that to progress her character as much as they should.
We get the breakup, and I love how they handled the breakup. I think that was good and important for her character. But we had two major setups for where she should go from there that the show just did not deliver on.
A. Healing. Nancy's guilt and her trauma that season 4 laid out so clearly and explored so well, does not see any sort of resolution. The breakup opens the door to this but there's nothing in the final stretch of episodes to allow Nancy space to actually self-reflect and grow.
B. What she wants. The idea that Nancy needs to figure out what she wants in life is MOST clearly laid out in the breakup scene but it's been present for a while. And again, the show tees it up in season 4 pretty directly. But even back to season 1 we've got a big question of her dissatisfaction and her reflections on life that Jonathan brings out, and the ideological divide that develops in relation to the love triangle and is a major theme of the show. And the only ending that the finale gives her is "she's working on figuring it out" and she seems to be no further than she was at the very start of season 3. She wants to be a journalist. Beyond that she's restless and searching.
And both of these things which are huge parts of her character just basically go unaddressed in favor of keeping Nancy "independent" (actually an idea that season 4 was directly challenging: there she was encouraged to except help and to become a leader. Sending her off the way the finale does and rejecting the idea of romance for her is UNDOING character growth). And I do think the best way to capitalize on at least point B would be to have at least a suggestion of her ending up with Steve down the road. Just add in a line or two of dialogue to suggest that their paths might come back together. And that would be better because it was CLEARLY the trajectory established by season 4, and not contradicted or even challenged by the first two thirds of season 5 (and because it would give Steve the ending that fits him because Steve's storyline has always been 60% a romance so not give him a romantic partner is to deny him his ending). But also, if you are gonna fall into the "female characters can't be strong if they're in a relationship" trap, you can still give Nancy an ending that gives her some growth and development and they just didn't.
What truly sickens me about that cursed epilogue is that, of all the teens, Jonathan is the one who seems to be the happiest with where heās at in lifeāJonathan, who has objectively had the LEAST character growth over the course of five seasons, and yet somehow he is rewarded for that stagnancy by the narrative/by the Duffers (who, letās face it, treat him as this self-insert character because, wow, heās this loner, misunderstood outcast guy who has great music taste and is such an educated film buff!! Truly revolutionary!!!).
And then you see Nancy and Steveāthe characters who have arguably had the MOST character development throughout the show, the ones whoāve consistently put their lives on the line and taken risks in order to help others because they care about people and are heroic to their core, the ones whoāve been brave enough to reject the molds society placed them in from the startāessentially become cardboard, stereotypical versions of themselves, negating so much of the nuanced character development that has been established for four seasons. Steveāwho has endured SO MUCH PAIN throughout the show in order to change, grow, and crawl forwardāhas his dream spat on by the narrative and painted as this silly, unrealistic pipe dream because how could an independent, career-focused girl like Nancy ever love someone like him, a dumb, one-time jock who peaked at high school and will never truly leave Hawkins??? This guy who was defined by his relentless commitment to ācrawling forwardā is now virtually stuck in place, once again caught in an endless cycle of fruitless romantic pursuits, circling back to right where he started. And Nancyāwho has consistently been isolated from other people due to her past trauma, emotional suppression, and career aspirationsāends up as this cookie-cutter career woman stripped of her voice and connection with others, who has no interest in romance, has taken no true steps towards healing/absolving herself of her past guilt, physically deprived of all the unique qualities that set her apart as she dons this bland, beige ensemble and no-nonsense haircut without a trace of the soft, pink-loving, unabashedly feminine power weāve all come to love her for.
Tell me, how is it that the most dynamic, courageous characters of the show get the most offensively milquetoast endings, get only a sliver of the happiness they spent seasons earning...while the most static character is rewarded for doing the bare minimum right before crossing the finish line?
