RHAEGAR TARGARYEN WOULD BE ON THE EPSTEIN LIST!

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@jaymes-penrose
RHAEGAR TARGARYEN WOULD BE ON THE EPSTEIN LIST!

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Had Lyanna lived she would likely have been blamed for the rebellion and all the deaths it caused like how Helen is blamed for the trojan war. What the fandom forgets or rather what they refuse to acknowledge is Westeros is a violently misogynist society that would not look at Lyanna's actions kindly.
Westeros is very misogynistic. No one is immune.
I hate this take because it's accurate. It wasn't her fault. She was kidnapped. This is why the blame will always fall on Rhaegar. He's the one who publicly courted the underage Lyanna. He's the one who humiliated Elia. He's the one who took Lyanna from her home. He's the one who kept her extremely far from home for a year. He's the one who started the war. Not Lyanna. Not Aerys. Not Jon Arryn. Rhaegar Targaryen.
Question for all people that know of Zade Meadows, specifically his actions towards Adeline in Chapter 16. Just wanna know what some people think about it and whether it’s 🍇 or not. And if Zade is a 🍇ist?
Also, pls don’t bring up trigger warnings, people using this book to cope, saying Addie wanted it, or what he did for Addie in the second book cause that’s all irrelevant. Simply tell me what you think of Zade’s actions and his actions alone. Thx…
He's a rapist. Pure and simple. She said no. She was fighting him off. "But her body reacted" tell me you don't know biology without telling me.
He's also a massive hypocrite! Let's save all the women from being raped, but then he'll rape the woman he "loves"????
Gosh Rhaegar loved Lyanna! Elia was just the broodmare.
Ok see I hate when people say shit like this and expect me to agree with them. Like calling Elia a broodmare is just as gross as calling Laena or Naerys broodmares. They're victims of the patriarchal society in ASOIAF, we should acknowledge them as such. They all deserve our sympathy and we should be disturbed by their treatment in the books.
Yes, Rhaegar and Lyanna loved each other, and Lyanna does more in the plot than Elia does. That doesn't mean we should just treat her the way the literal antagonists of the series do; ie as a broodmare or any other misogynistic bullshit.
Elia is despised because she gets in the middle of the Rhaegar/Lyanna ship and her presence shows it was never a love story. If it was a love story, why not escape to Essos? Why order the Kingsguard to kill anyone who got close? Why hide in Dorne for a year?
Easy, because Rhaegar wanted to make sure Lyanna was pregnant with the Third Head of the Dragon. Regardless of the start, the end remains the same: A terrified girl laying on a pool of her own blood, asking her brother to take her home. Only her bones made it back.
Rhaegar/Lyanna was never a love story. It was the story of a man manipulating a desperate teenager into becoming his incubator for his prophecy baby.
If you truly think about it, Rhaegar running off with Lyanna is proof that he loved Elia. The maesters told him that another pregnancy would kill Elia, so instead of risking her life, he chose the girl who was obviously smitten with him. Using her instead of risking the life of his beloved wife.
Now that's love!
(kidding mostly)
“Lyanna and Rhaegar deserved better than the patriarchal system” is a take that always seems to forget that both of them were that system. Both of them were shaped by and benefited from the same structures they’re often framed as victims of. Rhaegar was the crown prince, enjoying every privilege that came with his birth, right up until he decided to play at tragic hero with someone else’s life. Lyanna was a highborn Stark daughter. She had status, protection, and the advantages afforded to noble daughters (even if that came with restrictions). They weren’t some peasant girl or boy scraping by in the dirt. They benefited from the structure right up until they wanted to break its rules for themselves.
If the argument is that they “deserved better,” what’s better here? An escape from a system they also upheld and profited from? Are we imagining them renouncing title and land to live in a dirt hut, free of patriarchal constraints? Because the tragedy isn’t that the system uniquely wronged them, it’s that it did exactly what it was designed to do, and they chose to move within it in ways that harmed others.
What were they hoping to do? pull a move a la Duncan the Small? Still keep the benefits of the system while leaving others, like Duncan left his younger sister, to deal with the mess? Because that’s what it was: personal choices dressed up as doomed romance, with the cost handed off to people who didn’t get a say. So if we’re handing out “deserved better” passes, maybe start with the ones who didn’t get to choose at all.
“Something better than the patriarchy,” huh? Haven’t they already taken enough from it? What is it they’ve got their eye on this time? They wanna crown themselves as the Seven Gods?
Rhaegar and Lyanna were never going to challenge feudalism or arranged marriage — they didn’t have it in them. The best they can manage is drawing a sword against the weak,when have they ever dared to challenge the powerful? All they ever did was rebel against the wife and children within that arranged marriage.
It’s no surprise when the privileged act selfishly and trample over others — that’s par for the course. What can you even expect from them? If we’re counting on them, might as well wait for pigs to fly,or climb trees. What does surprise me is the number of online fans cheering them on like it’s something noble. Out of kindness and a modern humanist spirit, people are naturally inclined to empathize. But do privileged elites, even the women among them, really need the pity of the ordinary, struggling people? I’ve noticed that the people who are usually the most anti-privilege melt the moment they read about a pairing like Rhaelya. All it takes is a tragic prince and a rebellious girl, and suddenly all their class consciousness vanishes. It’s like the only thing they actually share with the elite is what’s in their pants. It’s only in these moments that the privileged become harmless and fragile — not a threat to anyone’s coin purse. Usually, there’s a whole reproductive class barrier between them. The only ones who suffer are the wife and her children.

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Rhaegar and Lyanna Did Not Challenge the System or rebell against it as their fans claim.
This fan projection, “Rhaegar and Lyanna were victims of the patriarchal system. They just wanted love and freedom. If they had lived, they would have changed everything.” is built on romanticism, aesthetics, and modern values retrofitted onto two highborn characters who never actually rebelled against the structure they just benefited from it and escaped its responsibility then thought they could go back once things settle to enjoy its privilages.
And this is not to say Lyanna should have not escaped Robert. But the way she did it and with whom. It's about accountability.
Also, standing against injust and bullying (TKOTLT) doesn't equal or indicate she wanted to challenge patriarchy.
Rhaegar told Jaime he plans to make changes and doesn't equal giving women rights as men or chllanging a system that gives his authority and comfort. In fact, he had a firstborn daughter, but he named his son his heir. He wasn't a pro women's rights. And don't you blame Aerys being alive for it. Rhaegar clearly wanted his son as his heir as we were told in Dany's vision and being tpwwp doesn't mean you have to be king.
Do you think Rhaegar seriously would have spoken up to his nobles against arranged marriages and he wouldn't have arranged ones for his children? Like it or not they needed arranged marriages. And after the mess he pulled? Definitely.
Vague promises after starting a war ≠ desire to reform system and especially for women.
Rhaegar and Lyanna may have had personal senses of right and wrong and thought women were important too, but they were never willing to sacrifice their own privilege to bring structural change. In fact, when they wanted something, freedom, love, prophecy they used the same system they supposedly hated and still kept its privillages.
Justice in some context ≠ desire to change the system.
Good Deeds ≠ Systemic Rebellion
And it's not judge them for not being these modernized feminist people but:
-Their hypocrisy and the huge mess and hurt they caused along with the accountability that they dropped on other are absolutely fair to judge.
People try to excuse them as “just in love” or “didn’t mean harm.” “They were victims of patriarchy.”
They stopped being victims when they hurt others for their own benefits and still wanted its privilages. And again a man in political marriage is nothing compared to the woman.
And the outcome was not small collateral. It was:
The death of two innocent children. The murder of Elia, a woman abandoned without real protection. The civil war killed thousands and destabilized the entire realm.
They didn’t just “fall in love” they disappeared and expected to go back one day and still have the privilages of system they supposedly fough against and let everyone else carry their mess.
Duncan Targaryen gave up his claim. Jeneye had no known influence in court. And yet Rhaelle still paid the price. But what did they give up for their perfect love? Nothing. They still wanted it all.
Lyanna's fans say she didn't desire to be queen. I agree. Yet they still want her to become queen along with Elia or by making Rhaegar "generously and very feminist-like send Elia back to her happiness in Dorne after using her to the end of the limits she could" or there are those who say she would be mistress and still have influence and freedom to ride horse and wave sword at enemies. They think even the queen version would have this freedom. And of course Jon has to be legetimized. And if he isn't he has very good influence like his mother.
On what grounds does Elia have to give up her position or share it with Lyanna? Elevating Lyanna for them always requires Elia to give up everything for her or share it. That is disgusting and misogynistic from them and from Rhaegar and Lyanna.
Like even if Elia was so fine with them (as if), why would she share this with Lyanna?
Your favorite couple isn't so just now, are they?
“They couldn’t have predicted the war.” “They were just in love.” “They were victims of their time.”
No they knew even if not detailed:
Rebellion had already happened in Westeros over a broken betrothal.
Aerys was a paranoid tyrant who burned people alive and already believed Rhaegar wanted to replace him running off with Lyanna looked like sedition.
Lyanna was engaged to Robert Baratheon, a man who would absolutely take offense.
The Starks wouldn't just sit still because Aerys is mad. If anything it looked like Rhaegar was using his father's madness against them. You are doomed if you try to look for your "kidnapped" girl. Brandon was a fool but his reaction was expected.
They didn’t just act recklessly. They acted like the rules wouldn’t apply to them. They gave up nothing and wanted everything.
Rhaegar and Lyanna were not rebels. They were privileged youths who believed their story mattered more than the realm.
They didn’t dismantle the system. They simply tried to bend it for themselves. They wanted the benefits of patriarchy and monarchy without the consequences of duty, alliance, and loyalty. And when the consequences came anyway, they left others to bleed for their dreams.
Their fans still excuse them by saying “they meant well.” But intentions don’t erase corpses. They were not punished by the system. They weaponized it and got caught in the blast.
Even though I don’t believe age excuses someone from accountability, I do think Lyanna’s youth played a role in her failure to critically examine the system or her own hypocrisy within it. But age doesn’t explain away the pain and humiliation she helped inflict on Elia. Rhaegar bears the brunt of the blame, but Lyanna was old enough to know better. And by Ned’s own memories, we were told she was aware enough to understand the weight of what she inflicting upon Elia.
Happy Father's Day to the worst father in Westeros.
About martin not romanticizing them...Those things aren’t mutually exclusive. Martin can be romanticizing their relationship while using death to avoid consequences. That’s the trick: by killing them off, he locks their image in amber, untouchable, unfinished, and open to projection.
death doesn’t erase romanticization. It freezes it.
But that is not the important thing here since we both agree there will be no real accountability over a character he likes like Rhaegar.
Second It’s not about blaming a girl caught in something bigger than herself...I sympathize greatly with Lyanna. What I don't sympathize with is how Martin treats her differently than Elia. Their children and their legacy. Even the Dornish plot compared to the stark plot there is a strong narrative bias that just doesn't give the dornish their satisfying true justice over their grief. It's ok for author to like one more than another but But when that preference distorts justice, truth, and narrative weight, it becomes a problem, not a style.
I'm not asking for her to be “blamed.” I'm asking for her to be acknowledged as a factor that is treated with Rhaegar as tragic romance throug silence especially Elia's silence. And that’s fair.
I do feel bad for her suffering at the end and her death but I feel worse when I think that had she lived with Rhaegar then what? Surely that was her plan to survive with Rhaegar but then what of Elia? Just more suffering. Less than her brutal death with children but continuous. I think this needs to be acknowledged too.
Regarding Dorne’s justice, I recall someone saying that Dorne doesn’t blame Rhaegar. All I can say is, that’s exactly the kind of aftermath their deaths left behind for Dorne—when Rhaegar is mentioned now, it’s not that there’s no blame, it’s that the anger has gone numb.Even if they slaughtered the Lannisters and all their dogs, they would still feel a hollow emptines.
What do you think?
I've seen people use the fact that Oberyn doesn't blame Rhaegar as proof he did nothing wrong. That because Doran wishes to restore the Targaryens that Rhaegar is blameless.
But we don't have a POV for either man, so we can't know their motives. But I hope these shippers don't have siblings, because in their warped minds, if their husband humiliates, then leaves them, that means that their siblings should absolutely think their husband did nothing wrong.
Even if people argue that Rhaegar didn’t owe Elia anything as a husband, and that’s already a stretch, he still owed everything to his children. As their father and heir to the throne, he had a non-negotiable duty to protect Rhaenys and Aegon. He was the heir, a father of two, and a prince with power and foresight. He knew his father was unstable. He knew the realm was fracturing. He knew Elia and their children were political hostages in a volatile court. And still, he left them. People say, “He left them in Dragonstone,” but that excuse doesn’t hold up. Rhaegar returned to King’s Landing while Aerys was actively unraveling, and it's clear that Elia and the children were no longer at Dragonstone but in the Red Keep. Aerys had ordered Prince Lewyn Martell to command the Dornish forces and made it clear Elia was being kept as a hostage, a political tool. Rhaegar knew this. He did nothing. This was not a matter of limited power. Rhaegar had enough authority to command two Kingsguard knights — sworn to the king, not the prince — to break their oaths and guard Lyanna in secrecy, far from the capital. If he could pull Dayne and Whent away from their sworn duties to protect his mistress, he could have taken similar steps to protect his wife and children. He had power, agency, and foresight — and he chose to exercise them elsewhere. This was not about love; it was about values — and he made it clear who he valued more. His actions left his children politically unprotected, and directly contributed to their deaths. What’s even more frustrating is how people act like he owed loyalty only to Lyanna. What did he owe her that surpassed the responsibility he had to his children? He had no obligation to her beyond desire and delusion. But Rhaenys and Aegon were his children. Elia had nearly died in childbirth. Who was meant to care for them if she died, while he was off hiding a girl in Dorne and chasing dreams of destiny? Rhaegar did not act like a hero, a protector, or a father. Not a tragic one nor a noble one. He acted like a man chasing an ideal at the expense of the living lives he was supposed to care for. That makes him accountable — not romantic. And what protection did his choices offer? A baby girl hidden in a bed — that’s all the realm’s great prince left her with. That’s all the power he wielded amounted to: a bed as a shield for a child. If love is truly in conflict with duty, then duty should have cost him something. But Rhaegar never paid that price. Instead, he made others pay: Elia, Rhaenys, Aegon, his siblings, and the realm.
People tend to set the bar embarrassingly low for men—if a man is technically a husband, that alone is seen as proof he’s already done his duty. Meanwhile, wives are expected to be content, wait in silence, and—when he finally turns to leave—watch him go without complaint or regret, and certainly without asking for accountability. Because, after all, “men already have so much pressure.”
Rhaegar, as the crown prince of the Seven Kingdoms—the privilege stacked on privilege.Privilege doesn’t argue with you,it just moves past you.When people say “he doesn’t owe anyone,” what they really mean is: he takes what he wants, fully aware of its cost to others, never intending to pay the price,never feeling guilt or responsibility. That’s just blame-shifting—a clear warning that someone’s about to run from accountability, maybe even turn around and bite you on the way out.
Take that already pitifully low bar, hand it to a privilege prince, and watch what happens—Rhaegar ends up with no responsibility to his wife,Rhaegar could cut ties with Elia anytime, anywhere, without paying price.Rhaegar took precious things from Elia and her babies.Health,dignity,hope,future life.From the Martells, their peace,their family numbers,their wholesome little moment of family joy—something he could never repay in his lifetime.
He could have sex with her, father children back-to-back.Of course, the fans say there was no love, no lust—just a tragic prince, solemnly enduring the unbearable task of sleeping with his wife. So what is he then—Aegon IV with a harp, or Aerys II who just happened to like baths and cleanliness? Didn’t he love books? Guess no matter how many he read, not a single one taught him how to love a woman.What he did take away was: “Oh, perfect! You don’t have to love your wife to sleep with her. Just time it down to the day—get her pregnant again and again.It’s her job after all."
Therefore,both in the books and among fans, he’s always portrayed as sensitive, emotionally deep, introspective—the clear contrast to all those “macho men.”He spent all that time brooding, being oh-so-sensitive, strumming that damn harp and making women cry, claiming he was meant to save all humanity—and yet somehow, the one person he's so cold to,emotionally distant from,and apparently owes nothing to is his wife? You’ve got to be kidding me.
Funny how that works. Did the fans activate cheat codes or something?Imagining Rhaegar treating his wife like an enemy—squeezing everything out of her, just to clear space for the mistress.With Lyanna it was making love, but with Elia—was it making hate? Or so we’re supposed to believe.Convenient, isn’t it? Maybe fans should draft an outline before hyping him up—just to make sure the logic actually lines up from beginning to end.
If Elia and the children had lived, maybe we could talk. But they’re dead—and everyone knows how they died.And those fucking idiots still out here speaking so boldly,defending the powerful without a shred of shame,like none of it matters……please,have some dignity, even when kissing up.
You know what?That’s also what puzzles me—aren’t they usually the first to hate on the powerful who are being greedy, reckless, and messing around with whoever they want? But the moment they start shipping, they’re suddenly aligned with them,suddenly everything becomes understandable—even worthy of sympathy. Picking a side and projecting themselves into it makes them feel powerful too. So what, turns out it’s not the powerful they hate—just the fact that they’re not the ones in power?Once they become the powerful ones themselves, they won’t hesitate to draw their swords against the weak?

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There is no way of accidentally doing a nazi salute twice in a row while the entire world is watching. This man needs to be killed
And I mean he does need to be killed. I remember a time when the obvious and most socially acceptable answer to what you would do if you could travel back in time was to kill Hitler before he rose to power. That is just what everyone said. Saying that nazis and fascism are bad was not seen as a controversial opinion it was simply a fact. This was not a long time ago and I am sure the vast majority of people reading this remember this as well. Elon Musk needs to be killed. Obviously.
When my grandfather and his brother fought in world war 2 against fascism and Nazis, they were called heroes.
When I say that I would love to go Bear Jew on all Nazis, I'm being too sensitive? That they deserve to live? To have compassion shown to them?
Fuck that!
Dating Rafael Barba
Personally I don’t know how people can think Rhaegar dying with Lyanna’s name is romantic (not confirmed canon btw only came from an app which GRRM does not back as canon) when he had a whole ass daughter hiding under his bed wishing he would save her…he couldn’t spare her a thought?
Because to the shippers of R&L Elia and her children don't matter. Never mattered. Will never matter.
They don't care that Rhaegar had other children. So in their minds neither would he. He only would have cared about his (white) child with Lyanna.
Rhaegar did not cheat on his wife. How could he, when he had no wife when he met Lyanna? A marriage is not a marriage if it's forced. There was nothing for Lyanna and Rhaegar to wreck in that scenario. Elia was a burden foisted on him by his crazy father. I get that you like Elia, for some unfathomable reason. Doesn't mean Rhaegar has to tolerate her continuing to interfere in his life. He's already dead. Let the poor guy be free of her in death at least.
Go ahead and burst out the mental and moral gymnastics that cheating doesn't apply to a sworn wife and the mother of your children because holy vows have an escape clause if you really don't 'mean' it.
Because Rhaegar was dragged into sept at sword point and in chains because as the adult crown prince of a nearly dead dynasty, he had no leverage in a potential match he didn't want.
Rhaegar /suffered/ so much to be married to a beautiful and charming princess that gave him a son and daughter in under two years.
I love how your logic twists that Naerys Targaryen deserved to be abused and treated terribly by Aegon the Unworthy because he didn't love her and all his mistresses deserved to be cast off or even killed once he stopped caring for him.
But then you think the fuckability of your SI is the only standard that a character should love to.
It is very sad that the 'antis' have more insight and sympathy for favorites then your crowd does.
Does this anon not understand that if the marriage was forced upon Rhaegar than it was forced upon Elia?
That means that she had every right to leave him. But she didn't because feudal society dictates that she stay.
I'm so sick of the narrative that Rhaegar was so fucking innocent of any and all crimes that he did commit.
I've seen every single person in Westeros blamed for the beginning of the rebellion.
Ella's mother for 'pushing her daughter onto the prince '
Rickard for 'not listening to Lyanna'
Brandon for 'being reckless in going to the capitol '
Robert for 'being a womanizer and having one bastard '
Oberyn for 'not protecting his sister better'
When will you people realize that he did wrong?
Y'all are not worse than Zade Meadows fans. But y'all are close.
Wouldn't shock me if y'all get wet thinking of both Rhaegar and Zade. They are so damned similar.
Both romanticized rapists.
Both hypocrites.
Gonna say it.
I apologize to all fans of Rhaegar Targaryen. I still viscerally loathe him. Most likely always will.
But after nearly twenty years of hating him, I've come across a character that's a million times worse than Rhaegar could have ever been.
May I introduce you to the scumbag rapist that is Zade Meadows.
This is a man who absolutely has not one idea of what consent is. Nor what it means when the girl you like is fighting you off of her and saying no over and over. Same guy who breaks into her house, ties her up, gags her and rapes her again.
So to the fans of Rhaegar I'm sorry. I didn't understand a character could be worse, while being painted a hero.

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LMAOOOOOO am dead send flowers😂😂😂
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If you could take a moment to read our story, consider donating, or simply share our campaign with others, it would make an incredible difference. Every act of kindness, no matter how small, brings us one step closer to safety and a new beginning. 🙏
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I can't donate at the moment.
Just spreading awareness.