Jaymes Lorena Penrose

We are so desensitized to murder in movies and shows that we don't even notice it happening. The body count in action movies, people who die who were simply at the wrong place at the wrong time, because the "hero" wanted to disguise himself with his victim's uniform, etc. those are all totally fine apparently.

Hell, we love some of the most insane killers in the world. We don't just make documentaries about people like Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer or Ed Gein, we make SHOWS about them. They have fans, actual fans, people who write letters to serial killers, people who make thirst traps on tiktok about the hot serial killer and making "jokes" that they would be one of his victims too cause he's just so charming.

But when someone likes dark romance in fiction, that person is far more judged than any of these other groups. Don't get me wrong, they do get shit too, but not the same way dark romance readers do.

I just find it fascinating how we can romanticize real people like Bonnie and Clyde, who have become practically legendary for all the crime they committed, but someone who enjoys a fictional stalker romance is called the scum of the earth.

I just think there's a lot of hypocrisy here. Either dark subjects in fiction should be explored without censorship, or it should just all be censored. You can't just pick and choose which controversial themes you think are okay for other people to enjoy and which aren't. You can choose which subjects YOU would want to explore more, but you can't make your own opinions and preferences into rules for others.

It's the framing of the act.

Zade rapes Adeline, multiple times, and it's excused. He's seen as heroic even.

That's fucking disgusting.

And fiction does influence real life. To act otherwise is fucking dumb.

She is distantly Valyrian.

She hatched her own egg.

She's on neither team.

Her desire during the Dance is to preserve the dragons. She lives through the deaths of Arrax, Meleys, Vermax, and she feels more in tune with their suffering than the suffering of the royals.

Her face claim is Jessica Brown Findlay.

Ok see I hate when people say shit like this and expect me to agree with them. Like calling Elia a broodmare is just as gross as calling Laena or Naerys broodmares. They're victims of the patriarchal society in ASOIAF, we should acknowledge them as such. They all deserve our sympathy and we should be disturbed by their treatment in the books.

Easy, because Rhaegar wanted to make sure Lyanna was pregnant with the Third Head of the Dragon. Regardless of the start, the end remains the same: A terrified girl laying on a pool of her own blood, asking her brother to take her home. Only her bones made it back.

Now that's love!

If the argument is that they “deserved better,” what’s better here? An escape from a system they also upheld and profited from? Are we imagining them renouncing title and land to live in a dirt hut, free of patriarchal constraints? Because the tragedy isn’t that the system uniquely wronged them, it’s that it did exactly what it was designed to do, and they chose to move within it in ways that harmed others.

What were they hoping to do? pull a move a la Duncan the Small? Still keep the benefits of the system while leaving others, like Duncan left his younger sister, to deal with the mess? Because that’s what it was: personal choices dressed up as doomed romance, with the cost handed off to people who didn’t get a say. So if we’re handing out “deserved better” passes, maybe start with the ones who didn’t get to choose at all.

“Something better than the patriarchy,” huh? Haven’t they already taken enough from it? What is it they’ve got their eye on this time? They wanna crown themselves as the Seven Gods?

Rhaegar and Lyanna were never going to challenge feudalism or arranged marriage — they didn’t have it in them. The best they can manage is drawing a sword against the weak,when have they ever dared to challenge the powerful? All they ever did was rebel against the wife and children within that arranged marriage.

This fan projection, “Rhaegar and Lyanna were victims of the patriarchal system. They just wanted love and freedom. If they had lived, they would have changed everything.” is built on romanticism, aesthetics, and modern values retrofitted onto two highborn characters who never actually rebelled against the structure they just benefited from it and escaped its responsibility then thought they could go back once things settle to enjoy its privilages.

And this is not to say Lyanna should have not escaped Robert. But the way she did it and with whom. It's about accountability.

Also, standing against injust and bullying (TKOTLT) doesn't equal or indicate she wanted to challenge patriarchy.

Rhaegar told Jaime he plans to make changes and doesn't equal giving women rights as men or chllanging a system that gives his authority and comfort. In fact, he had a firstborn daughter, but he named his son his heir. He wasn't a pro women's rights. And don't you blame Aerys being alive for it. Rhaegar clearly wanted his son as his heir as we were told in Dany's vision and being tpwwp doesn't mean you have to be king.

Do you think Rhaegar seriously would have spoken up to his nobles against arranged marriages and he wouldn't have arranged ones for his children? Like it or not they needed arranged marriages. And after the mess he pulled? Definitely.

Vague promises after starting a war ≠ desire to reform system and especially for women.

Rhaegar and Lyanna may have had personal senses of right and wrong and thought women were important too, but they were never willing to sacrifice their own privilege to bring structural change. In fact, when they wanted something, freedom, love, prophecy they used the same system they supposedly hated and still kept its privillages.

Justice in some context ≠ desire to change the system.

Good Deeds ≠ Systemic Rebellion

And it's not judge them for not being these modernized feminist people but:

-Their hypocrisy and the huge mess and hurt they caused along with the accountability that they dropped on other are absolutely fair to judge.

People try to excuse them as “just in love” or “didn’t mean harm.” “They were victims of patriarchy.”

They stopped being victims when they hurt others for their own benefits and still wanted its privilages. And again a man in political marriage is nothing compared to the woman.

And the outcome was not small collateral. It was:

The death of two innocent children. The murder of Elia, a woman abandoned without real protection. The civil war killed thousands and destabilized the entire realm.

They didn’t just “fall in love” they disappeared and expected to go back one day and still have the privilages of system they supposedly fough against and let everyone else carry their mess.

Duncan Targaryen gave up his claim. Jeneye had no known influence in court. And yet Rhaelle still paid the price. But what did they give up for their perfect love? Nothing. They still wanted it all.

Lyanna's fans say she didn't desire to be queen. I agree. Yet they still want her to become queen along with Elia or by making Rhaegar "generously and very feminist-like send Elia back to her happiness in Dorne after using her to the end of the limits she could" or there are those who say she would be mistress and still have influence and freedom to ride horse and wave sword at enemies. They think even the queen version would have this freedom. And of course Jon has to be legetimized. And if he isn't he has very good influence like his mother.

On what grounds does Elia have to give up her position or share it with Lyanna? Elevating Lyanna for them always requires Elia to give up everything for her or share it. That is disgusting and misogynistic from them and from Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Like even if Elia was so fine with them (as if), why would she share this with Lyanna?

Your favorite couple isn't so just now, are they?

“They couldn’t have predicted the war.” “They were just in love.” “They were victims of their time.”

No they knew even if not detailed:

Rebellion had already happened in Westeros over a broken betrothal.

Aerys was a paranoid tyrant who burned people alive and already believed Rhaegar wanted to replace him running off with Lyanna looked like sedition.

Lyanna was engaged to Robert Baratheon, a man who would absolutely take offense.

The Starks wouldn't just sit still because Aerys is mad. If anything it looked like Rhaegar was using his father's madness against them. You are doomed if you try to look for your "kidnapped" girl. Brandon was a fool but his reaction was expected.

They didn’t just act recklessly. They acted like the rules wouldn’t apply to them. They gave up nothing and wanted everything.

Rhaegar and Lyanna were not rebels. They were privileged youths who believed their story mattered more than the realm.

They didn’t dismantle the system. They simply tried to bend it for themselves. They wanted the benefits of patriarchy and monarchy without the consequences of duty, alliance, and loyalty. And when the consequences came anyway, they left others to bleed for their dreams.

Their fans still excuse them by saying “they meant well.” But intentions don’t erase corpses. They were not punished by the system. They weaponized it and got caught in the blast.

death doesn’t erase romanticization. It freezes it.

But that is not the important thing here since we both agree there will be no real accountability over a character he likes like Rhaegar.

Second It’s not about blaming a girl caught in something bigger than herself...I sympathize greatly with Lyanna. What I don't sympathize with is how Martin treats her differently than Elia. Their children and their legacy. Even the Dornish plot compared to the stark plot there is a strong narrative bias that just doesn't give the dornish their satisfying true justice over their grief. It's ok for author to like one more than another but But when that preference distorts justice, truth, and narrative weight, it becomes a problem, not a style.

I'm not asking for her to be “blamed.” I'm asking for her to be acknowledged as a factor that is treated with Rhaegar as tragic romance throug silence especially Elia's silence. And that’s fair.

I do feel bad for her suffering at the end and her death but I feel worse when I think that had she lived with Rhaegar then what? Surely that was her plan to survive with Rhaegar but then what of Elia? Just more suffering. Less than her brutal death with children but continuous. I think this needs to be acknowledged too.

Regarding Dorne’s justice, I recall someone saying that Dorne doesn’t blame Rhaegar. All I can say is, that’s exactly the kind of aftermath their deaths left behind for Dorne—when Rhaegar is mentioned now, it’s not that there’s no blame, it’s that the anger has gone numb.Even if they slaughtered the Lannisters and all their dogs, they would still feel a hollow emptines.

People tend to set the bar embarrassingly low for men—if a man is technically a husband, that alone is seen as proof he’s already done his duty. Meanwhile, wives are expected to be content, wait in silence, and—when he finally turns to leave—watch him go without complaint or regret, and certainly without asking for accountability. Because, after all, “men already have so much pressure.”

Rhaegar, as the crown prince of the Seven Kingdoms—the privilege stacked on privilege.Privilege doesn’t argue with you,it just moves past you.When people say “he doesn’t owe anyone,” what they really mean is: he takes what he wants, fully aware of its cost to others, never intending to pay the price,never feeling guilt or responsibility. That’s just blame-shifting—a clear warning that someone’s about to run from accountability, maybe even turn around and bite you on the way out.

Take that already pitifully low bar, hand it to a privilege prince, and watch what happens—Rhaegar ends up with no responsibility to his wife,Rhaegar could cut ties with Elia anytime, anywhere, without paying price.Rhaegar took precious things from Elia and her babies.Health,dignity,hope,future life.From the Martells, their peace,their family numbers,their wholesome little moment of family joy—something he could never repay in his lifetime.

He could have sex with her, father children back-to-back.Of course, the fans say there was no love, no lust—just a tragic prince, solemnly enduring the unbearable task of sleeping with his wife. So what is he then—Aegon IV with a harp, or Aerys II who just happened to like baths and cleanliness? Didn’t he love books? Guess no matter how many he read, not a single one taught him how to love a woman.What he did take away was: “Oh, perfect! You don’t have to love your wife to sleep with her. Just time it down to the day—get her pregnant again and again.It’s her job after all."

Therefore,both in the books and among fans, he’s always portrayed as sensitive, emotionally deep, introspective—the clear contrast to all those “macho men.”He spent all that time brooding, being oh-so-sensitive, strumming that damn harp and making women cry, claiming he was meant to save all humanity—and yet somehow, the one person he's so cold to,emotionally distant from,and apparently owes nothing to is his wife? You’ve got to be kidding me.

Funny how that works. Did the fans activate cheat codes or something?Imagining Rhaegar treating his wife like an enemy—squeezing everything out of her, just to clear space for the mistress.With Lyanna it was making love, but with Elia—was it making hate? Or so we’re supposed to believe.Convenient, isn’t it? Maybe fans should draft an outline before hyping him up—just to make sure the logic actually lines up from beginning to end.

If Elia and the children had lived, maybe we could talk. But they’re dead—and everyone knows how they died.And those fucking idiots still out here speaking so boldly,defending the powerful without a shred of shame,like none of it matters……please,have some dignity, even when kissing up.

When I say that I would love to go Bear Jew on all Nazis, I'm being too sensitive? That they deserve to live? To have compassion shown to them?

Fuck that!