darcy's first proposal was basically
darcy: i can't believe i have to marry this woman
the reader: i mean... you don't have to
darcy: no, i'm gonna
elizabeth: no
darcy: ..... the fuck you mean "no"
noise dept.

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@janeaustengeeks
darcy's first proposal was basically
darcy: i can't believe i have to marry this woman
the reader: i mean... you don't have to
darcy: no, i'm gonna
elizabeth: no
darcy: ..... the fuck you mean "no"

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Reaching out to all the Jane Austen fanfic readers/writers out there:
I absolutely swear I’ve read a Pride and Prejudice either fanfiction or variation that has these elements:
Darcy overhears Elizabeth and Bingley talking about being in love but people think he’s courting Jane-can’t remember if Darcy knows it’s Bingley
Jane becomes partially paralyzed and Bingley marries her because of it
Elizabeth, heartbroken, agrees to marry Darcy with him knowing all her feelings
Third act break up where Darcy nobly tries to leave her but she picks him because she’s fallen in love.
Any idea what I’m remembering? I hope I didn’t hallucinate a full story while heavily medicated (I am disabled, my medication is prescription please don’t panic I’m mostly fine)
no jane austen character has filled me with rage and revulsion the way john fucking thorpe does dear god like i know that guy he cornered me at a party once sky-high on cocaine and made me listen to him describe the entire plot of the odyssey and when i pointed out he’d gotten some pretty important details wrong he called his sister over and she told me i was the “sweetest thing [she’d] ever seen” then spilled her drink on my dress on purpose
JUST 1 DAY LEFT!!!
i mostly made this because i wanted them to have pictures on their wiki profiles waiting for fandom approval🙇♀️
"...no one so proper, so capable as Anne."
--Ch.12, Persuasion

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I finished Udolpho. I am glad I did, but I am not sure I will pick up anything else by Radcliffe. Some of this is due to the way novels have evolved; the pacing and role of the narrator and reader in making meaning has changed, and those contributed to my frustrations.
I maintain that this would have slayed as a serial publication. Perhaps if I pick up more Radcliffe, I would treat it as such, reading one to two chapters a week and letting some of those moments of action and suspense really simmer.
Reading it gave me an even greater appreciation for Northanger Abbey (thank spaghetti monster Catherine did not attempt to write poetry 🙏). The tension of Udolpho's delights and frustrations make it a book well suited to parody. My book discussion with friends included as much laughter as reasonable analysis. Some was reaction to intentional humour from Radcliffe, some of it not.
If one were to pick it up, I'd encourage reading it serially and with an eye to fairy tales. Of course, its biases of the time show through & those can and should be discussed with modern perspectives. Some of those topics are the ones I wanted critical analysis of, to understand more about how audiences of the time would have discussed its problems (or not). I realise it was popular in its time, but were any of those problematic elements part of the discourse or merely dismissed as pulp fiction?
Yikes, now that I say that -- is Fourth Wing the Udolpho of our time?
Radcliffe: "Having reached a rustic seat, within a deep recess of the woods, she rested awhile, and, as her eyes caught, through a distant opening, a glimpse of the blue waters of the Mediterranean, with the white sail, gliding on its bosom, or of the broad mountain, glowing beneath the mid-day sun, her mind experienced somewhat of that exquisite delight which awakens the fancy..."
Me: Oh no.
Radcliffe: "and leads to poetry."
Me: No no no
Radcliffe: "...and while Blanche watched a butter-fly, flitting from bud to bud, she indulged herself in imagining the pleasures of its short day..."
Me: Blanche, no.
Radcliffe: "till she had composed the following stanzas.
THE BUTTER-FLY TO HIS LOVE..."
Me: *internally screaming*
1% left and LEST WE THINK WE ARE SAFE, Radcliffe leads us up the stairs of a ruined tower to surprise us with one more poem.
Truly, a novel committed to horror to the very end.
Me trying to finish Mysteries of Udolpho
Radcliffe: "Having reached a rustic seat, within a deep recess of the woods, she rested awhile, and, as her eyes caught, through a distant opening, a glimpse of the blue waters of the Mediterranean, with the white sail, gliding on its bosom, or of the broad mountain, glowing beneath the mid-day sun, her mind experienced somewhat of that exquisite delight which awakens the fancy..."
Me: Oh no.
Radcliffe: "and leads to poetry."
Me: No no no
Radcliffe: "...and while Blanche watched a butter-fly, flitting from bud to bud, she indulged herself in imagining the pleasures of its short day..."
Me: Blanche, no.
Radcliffe: "till she had composed the following stanzas.
THE BUTTER-FLY TO HIS LOVE..."
Me: *internally screaming*
I am reading Mysteries of Udolpho for the first time. I find it simultaneously readable and intolerable. Please, please say less of the landscape; my executive is dysfunctioning. Please, Annette, get to the point. Emily, girl, I beg you -- not one more poem. If one more man tells Emily to keep a stiff upper lip, my fury will achieve interdimensional proportions. Her melodrama is amusing and irritating, yet I fully recognise & admire her perseverance in the reality of limited agency.
Then Radcliffe will give us absolutely cutting lines like:
"... a party of young men, who had more money than rank, and more vice than either."
"It was new to Emily to part with any person, with whom she was connected, without feeling of regret; the moment, however, in which she took leave of M. and Madame Quesnel, was, perhaps, the only satisfactory one she had known in their presence."
" '—who could have foreseen, when I married the Signor, that I should ever repent my generosity?' Emily thought she might have foreseen it, but this was not a thought of triumph.
Or reflections such as
"A well-informed mind is the best security against the contagion of folly and vice. The vacant mind is ever on the watch for relief, and ready to plunge into error, to escape from the languor of idleness. Store it with ideas, teach it the pleasure of thinking; and the temptations of the world without, will be counteracted by the gratifications derived from the world within."
(btw this book would have killed in a serial format.)
Still, I understand a bit more about Catherine Morland's mental state now. I, too, feel like my grasp on reality is slipping. I have read for an eternity and still have over 1/3 left. So much has happened and almost nothing has happened? What is time? Where are we? Who am I?
To be determined.
If anyone knows of a podcast or YouTube series that has done a close reading of Udolpho, do let me know. I *know* there are things that I'm missing.

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I am reading Mysteries of Udolpho for the first time. I find it simultaneously readable and intolerable. Please, please say less of the landscape; my executive is dysfunctioning. Please, Annette, get to the point. Emily, girl, I beg you -- not one more poem. If one more man tells Emily to keep a stiff upper lip, my fury will achieve interdimensional proportions. Her melodrama is amusing and irritating, yet I fully recognise & admire her perseverance in the reality of limited agency.
Then Radcliffe will give us absolutely cutting lines like:
"... a party of young men, who had more money than rank, and more vice than either."
"It was new to Emily to part with any person, with whom she was connected, without feeling of regret; the moment, however, in which she took leave of M. and Madame Quesnel, was, perhaps, the only satisfactory one she had known in their presence."
" '—who could have foreseen, when I married the Signor, that I should ever repent my generosity?' Emily thought she might have foreseen it, but this was not a thought of triumph.
Or reflections such as
"A well-informed mind is the best security against the contagion of folly and vice. The vacant mind is ever on the watch for relief, and ready to plunge into error, to escape from the languor of idleness. Store it with ideas, teach it the pleasure of thinking; and the temptations of the world without, will be counteracted by the gratifications derived from the world within."
(btw this book would have killed in a serial format.)
Still, I understand a bit more about Catherine Morland's mental state now. I, too, feel like my grasp on reality is slipping. I have read for an eternity and still have over 1/3 left. So much has happened and almost nothing has happened? What is time? Where are we? Who am I?
To be determined.
It's funny because when I defend the end pairing of Jane Eyre I usually say, "But Jane got what she wanted" which is exactly what people say for Mansfield Park and Fanny Price ending up with Edmund Bertram and yet it doesn't work for me there.
Why?
I think one reason is because Jane is so assertive about her desires. The famous "Reader, I married him" is a clear declaration of her will and her control of the narrative. Jane wanted Rochester and she went and got him. For Fanny on the other hand, we're told, "Well... eventually Edmund came around."
I only entreat everybody to believe that exactly at the time when it was quite natural that it should be so, and not a week earlier, Edmund did cease to care about Miss Crawford, and became as anxious to marry Fanny as Fanny herself could desire.
And yes, Fanny desires it, it's right there in the quote, but she feels like a much more passive partner in this pairing.
Then we have the fact that Jane, before divine intervention sends her back to Rochester, gains financial and personal freedom, something that Fanny Price never achieves. Jane does not have to marry anymore. She has her inheritance, she demonstrates her ability to hold down a job, and genuinely enjoyed herself while doing it. She has family who loves her and wants to live with her (and also St. John Rivers). Fanny Price ends her novel still stuck between a rock (Mansfield Park) and a hard place (Portsmouth), with no solid plan other than marrying Edmund to secure her future. I think it's harder to accept something as her choice when it's really her only viable option. And yes, Mansfield becomes a much better place to live, but we never see Fanny Price as someone who could be independent.
Jane Eyre didn't need to marry Rochester, but she wanted to, and that is why I support her marrying that weird little attempted bigamist. Fanny Price needed to marry to secure her future and she marries the man she wants, but I'm still left wishing she didn't have to.
I think that might be why the idea of shipping her with Henry Crawford is so popular. Despite his faults Henry looks at Fanny and says "wow, you're special" vs Edmund who says, "oh, you're here".
Yes!
I understand what Jane Austen was going for, she wanted us to feel the potential of Henry Crawford and then it crashes down, but Ch 30? Where the extremely jaded and experienced Henry Crawford is like, "Not only is Fanny the Very Best Girl, she will cure my uncle of misogyny with her very existence" (lol, sure dude). We get an entire chapter of Henry Crawford expounding on all her merits, which are TRUE and CORRECT and then with Edmund we get, "Fanny is wife-shaped"
And yes, Edmund projects Fanny's merits on to Mary Crawford and it's pretty clear throughout the novel that Fanny is what he really wants from a wife, but still.
So true about Jane’s independence and freedom compared to Fanny’s. I’d also add, what is I think a major point for me, Rochester’s levels of self-awareness compared to Edmund’. Say what you like about Rochester (and a lot of it is deserved 😂) he’s not sanctimonious : he knows Jane is too good for him, even if he wants her anyway. Edmund just never seems to realise his own failings . And he never gets punished for them: petition to crowdfund removing one of Edmund Bertran’s arms and an eye anyone😂?? Jane only accepts Rochester after the status dynamic is completely reversed, and not only does Rochester already know she’s too good for him morally, he’s now also her dependant physically. Whereas Edmund settles for Fanny as second best after Miss Crawford and we’re never even told that he’s realised her intellectual and moral superiority…

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(original image by George Dance, "A woman handing a letter to another woman")