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Alternate Title: Redrawing memes I found while scrolling on Pinterest at 3 am. (Original image under the cut)

asthma man in black when a jedi is just out of his lightsaber range ig:

a major part of Vader's turn in RotJ is the fact that he has a personal connection to Luke, so this automatically rules out Jedi like Kanan, Ezra, and Cal from being able to turn Vader. Vader wants a connection with his son, he wouldn't be fazed by a random Jedi showing up who showed him the same kind of compassion that Luke showed him. if anything, he'd consider it a weakness.

that means the only other people who could turn Vader, if that personal connection is required, are Obi-Wan and Ahsoka (maybe Yoda, i don't think that Anakin and Yoda were close enough for that personal connection to influence Vader, but it's a possibility!) both Obi-Wan and Ahsoka knew Vader before he turned fully, and we know from the Kenobi show and Rebels that Vader hates them for that. Vader hates the parts of himself that were Anakin Skywalker or remind him of Anakin Skywalker, so by extension, he hates Obi-Wan and Ahsoka. neither of them would be able to reach the man beneath that kind of externalized and internalized hatred.

Problem is actually this - "a random Jedi showing up who showed him the same kind of compassion that Luke showed him".

Compassion that Luke showed to Vader is unique to Luke.

Yoda didnt entertain any idea of Vaders redemption.

Obi-Wan gave up on Anakin after Mustafar and Kenobi show is nonsensical for many reasons but mostly for trying to backpedal on it.

Ashoka didnt exist during movies but even taking her for canon she left Anakin and completely cut him out of her life before stumbling upon Vader.

At no point in the movies Vader was shown to hate his past self. At no point he was shown being in denial of being Anakin. Only Obi-Wan and Palpatine played that hand.

Before a father reveal Luke like everyone else in the galaxy only saw Vader as an evil monster. He jumped to his death once he learned that his father and Vader were the same person. Clearly he had certain expectations for Anakin that Vader completely failed to meet. So to say that Luke had a chance because he didnt know Anakin doesnt really work here. Vader was perfectly aware he was a disappointment for his son.

Still Luke couldnt help but reach to his father and create a force bond. Unlike everyone else he has lost privilege to view Vader as nothing but a monster to slain. Their familial bond was a bridge to compassion.

Acting like everyone did the same thing as Luke but Luke was just lucky he was Vader`s baby boy is actually just shitting on Luke and taking away his achievements.

I know we all love the agast it brings to have them mistreated, but it's Palpatine. He's slimy, and cunning. I think he'd spoil them. Make them seem more important than the other Clones. Yeah the majority of the senators and many of the civilians treat them worse than droids, and they don't get to fight alongside their brothers, but all the more reason to keep these guys happy. Especially Fox, who canonically wants to kill things.

She was his biggest opp there was no way in HELL he was letting her live, Vader or no Vader

He got so desperate that in the novelization of ROTS he starts introducing the concept of her getting w Obi Wan to make Anakin jealous, he was in the TRENCHES w her and couldn't wait to be rid of her😭

That's not to say Palpatine wouldn't have done all he could to off her had she lived. And he must at least have been aware of her death given he uses it immediately as an emotional weapon against Vader (however, that doesn't prove he personally did it, you could argue it implies it but its quite possible to sense something you didn't cause through the Force).

But I struggle to see him actually doing it as events played out in cannon.

First, because if Palpatine could precision target a single person across the galaxy for Force murder, then what the hell does the man need assassins and enforcers for? Oh, I'm sure he enjoys having people kill on his command, he likes power over others, but there are times when he actually needed someone dead and had to rely on someone else to be the hatchet man, and if he could just kill someone across a galaxy with the Force then why?

Now sure, you could contrive some Force shenanigans reason for why he could do it this time and not other times, its not as if the portrayal of the Force is super-consistent anyway. But that brings us to the second, more serious issue.

Which is that it lets Anakin off the hook for her death.

Anakin killed his wife. He did it because his love for her to become warped into possessiveness, causing him to do evil things to try to save her, things she never would have wanted done in her name- and then turned to rage against her when she didn't accept what he had done "for her" (really, for himself).

That's the tragedy of RotS- Anakin's love for Padme became warped into the weapon that destroyed her, and him, and everyone else (side note: I love me a good self-fulfilling prophecy plot).

If Palpatine killed her, though, then it dilutes that meaning. Anakin's guilt for Padme's death is at worst second-hand, indirect.

Maybe some people want that so its easier to forgive him, to accept his later redemption, to see him as a victim rather than a perpetrator (another part of the tragedy and complexity of Anakin is that he is very much both, to different people and in different circumstances). I DEFINITELY see why Anidala shippers would prefer that interpretation. Plus, of course, there's the general disdain for Padme's "lost the will to live" death.

But, if you want a reason for her death beyond the obvious severe trauma physical, mental and emotional, plus possible medical malpractice, I think that it is far, FAR more fitting to the themes and characters of the film for it to be Anakin that drained her.

The most powerful Force user perhaps of all time, one with a personal connection to Padme... if anyone could reach out in that moment and destroy her, even unconsciously, it would be him.

And if fits perfectly with what the film establishes- that Anakin's own selfishness and darkness ultimately destroyed Padme, and himself.

It does also mean that Palpatine was actually telling the truth to Anakin when he said he killed Padme, but honestly... why lie at that point? Rubbing it in Anakin's face that he has destroyed his own life beyond repair will only cement his fall to the Dark Side by convincing him he has nothing else left for him, feed his anger and hate (if only for himself)- and also steer him away from putting the blame directly on Palpatine.

Palpatine says " in your anger.. you killed her" referring to whatever happened on Mustafar. Whenever he believes it to be true is not important since his goal is to destroy Anakin mentally and trap him in darkside.

Anakin in turn argues that "she was alive I could sense her" but he doesnt trust himself at this point so he accepts that he really chocked his wife to death there ultimately killing her and their unborn child.

Also, there is precedent for powerful Force users, including Anakin, doing stuff subconsciously, and Anakin was probably delirious with pain at that point. I don't think he did it intentionally- in this theory, he did it instinctively. As you said yourself, Anakin was not very clear on what he had or had not done at that point.

That said, I still think physical trauma plus medical malpractice is the best explanation. Nobody is going to convince me that a heavily-pregnant woman who was choked into unconsciousness, dropped from a height onto a hard metal deck, and suffered prolonged, severe emotional stress and likely exhaustion on top of that was medically healthy and just lost the will to live. Most likely she had serious physical injuries that the droids failed to accurately diagnose.

If you want to bring realism then keep it consistent.

Padme dying from heartbreak makes sense for a fictiona lworld she lives in.

Argument that medical droids failed to accurately diagnose Padme is based on nothing and has no support in narrative. Its dishonest reading of what the story is telling you.

Anakin not trusting himself has nothing to do with his actual abilities. He could sense that Padme was alive and fine and he was absolutely correct about it.

No actually, Anakin directly killing Padme doesnt make sense thematically because the entire point of his character is his love for his family and his inability to kill them even at his ultimate worst.

She was his biggest opp there was no way in HELL he was letting her live, Vader or no Vader

He got so desperate that in the novelization of ROTS he starts introducing the concept of her getting w Obi Wan to make Anakin jealous, he was in the TRENCHES w her and couldn't wait to be rid of her😭

That's not to say Palpatine wouldn't have done all he could to off her had she lived. And he must at least have been aware of her death given he uses it immediately as an emotional weapon against Vader (however, that doesn't prove he personally did it, you could argue it implies it but its quite possible to sense something you didn't cause through the Force).

But I struggle to see him actually doing it as events played out in cannon.

First, because if Palpatine could precision target a single person across the galaxy for Force murder, then what the hell does the man need assassins and enforcers for? Oh, I'm sure he enjoys having people kill on his command, he likes power over others, but there are times when he actually needed someone dead and had to rely on someone else to be the hatchet man, and if he could just kill someone across a galaxy with the Force then why?

Now sure, you could contrive some Force shenanigans reason for why he could do it this time and not other times, its not as if the portrayal of the Force is super-consistent anyway. But that brings us to the second, more serious issue.

Which is that it lets Anakin off the hook for her death.

Anakin killed his wife. He did it because his love for her to become warped into possessiveness, causing him to do evil things to try to save her, things she never would have wanted done in her name- and then turned to rage against her when she didn't accept what he had done "for her" (really, for himself).

That's the tragedy of RotS- Anakin's love for Padme became warped into the weapon that destroyed her, and him, and everyone else (side note: I love me a good self-fulfilling prophecy plot).

If Palpatine killed her, though, then it dilutes that meaning. Anakin's guilt for Padme's death is at worst second-hand, indirect.

Maybe some people want that so its easier to forgive him, to accept his later redemption, to see him as a victim rather than a perpetrator (another part of the tragedy and complexity of Anakin is that he is very much both, to different people and in different circumstances). I DEFINITELY see why Anidala shippers would prefer that interpretation. Plus, of course, there's the general disdain for Padme's "lost the will to live" death.

But, if you want a reason for her death beyond the obvious severe trauma physical, mental and emotional, plus possible medical malpractice, I think that it is far, FAR more fitting to the themes and characters of the film for it to be Anakin that drained her.

The most powerful Force user perhaps of all time, one with a personal connection to Padme... if anyone could reach out in that moment and destroy her, even unconsciously, it would be him.

And if fits perfectly with what the film establishes- that Anakin's own selfishness and darkness ultimately destroyed Padme, and himself.

It does also mean that Palpatine was actually telling the truth to Anakin when he said he killed Padme, but honestly... why lie at that point? Rubbing it in Anakin's face that he has destroyed his own life beyond repair will only cement his fall to the Dark Side by convincing him he has nothing else left for him, feed his anger and hate (if only for himself)- and also steer him away from putting the blame directly on Palpatine.

Palpatine says " in your anger.. you killed her" referring to whatever happened on Mustafar. Whenever he believes it to be true is not important since his goal is to destroy Anakin mentally and trap him in darkside.

Anakin in turn argues that "she was alive I could sense her" but he doesnt trust himself at this point so he accepts that he really chocked his wife to death there ultimately killing her and their unborn child.

Hi, it's been long time. Have some pain ✨

This is for the Vaderkin Creative Exchange ( @vaderkin-is-a-lightning-rod ), for @nocturnalgremlingiant

And Palpatine’s attitude here precisely mirrors what Anakin has spent thirteen years learning from the Jedi. Attachments are forbidden. Your own personal feelings aren’t important. The only way to serve the force is total self-sacrifice. So Palpatine’s rebuke here doesn’t sound suspicious at all to Anakin. It’s what he’s come to expect from authority figures. 

On a deeper level, this ideology has deeply warped Anakin’s perception of himself and his surroundings. This is a boy who was taken from slavery at the age of nine (at a stage of development in which he was highly likely to blame himself for the trauma he’d been through). And when he first joined the Jedi, just at the time in which he most needed acknowledgment and validation for his emotions and help with working through his trauma, he was told that he needed to detach himself from emotion and let go of his attachments - a difficult feat for anyone, let alone a child and former slave who’s just been separated from his mother, friends, and everything he’s ever known in favor of a totally alien environment.

Anakin deals with this through unhealthy repression. He buries his anger and fear and insecurity and bitterness and feelings of attachment towards other people until they manifest in violent outbursts like the massacre on the Tusken Raiders. He doesn’t like these ideologies, but he’s also internalized them, to the point where he feels profound guilt over his emotions; there’s always a voice telling him, in the back of his mind, that he wouldn’t be struggling with this if he tried harder, that a good Jedi wouldn’t give into his impulses.