Creation Entertainment has been criticized by the Deaf community for its handling of accessibility, drawing attention to a broader issue.
This is a messed up situation and it sucks that Creation was shitty to all their d/Deaf convention attendees.
My sister is deafblind I’m a teacher of the deaf and we both love supernatural so this issue is kinda personal to me. That being said, this just reinforces to me that choosing to only learn sign language is limiting for deaf people. I’m not at all excusing the actions of Creation but I do think that going forward with hearing aid and cochlear implant technology, this will hopefully happen less often.
We attended SPN NJ con in 2016 and had no issues with accessablility, and she brought her guide dog (with a license plate taped to her harness for an impala cosplay!)
With all due respect, I have been a cochlear implant user ever since I became deaf 9 years ago, and I do not hear with it nearly as well as one would need to in order to follow panels at a convention or even understand someone at photo ops or at the autograph table. For every 1-hour panel I attend, I can probably understand only 4 or 5 WORDS.
Also, I know for a fact that the majority of the people interviewed in the article are hearing aid users. I know some of them personally and they speak English as well as sign ASL. Technology may enable some of us to do things like carry one-on-one spoken conversations, but many of us still require additional accommodations (like captionists or interpreters) for things like conventions. We have literally done everything we possibly can do on our end.
Moreover, the lack of accessibility options for non-signing deaf people (like CART or captioning - I know people have requested that but I can’t think of a single con where Creation has provided it) is part of the reason I learned ASL in the first place. So I don’t know where you got the idea that any of this has to do with “choosing to only learn sign language.”
Lastly, let’s not assume that everyone is a candidate for cochlear implants/hearing aids, or even wants them, or that those who sign ASL are unable to communicate in any other language. There will always be people who require interpreter services and they/we should not be overlooked.
I never said that anyone interviewed made that decision, just that issues like this (which I still totally think was terrible on the organizers part) reinforce to me that relying on people to accommodate you (even though we all know they legally, morally and ethically should) opens yourself up to that disappointment when people let you down.
I’m not saying that anyone who uses interpreters/captions should be overlooked (hell I use captions when I can) , just that choosing to practice and work at honing listening skills, especially for kids who are growing up with the newest technology should be just as important.
I agree that captioning panels and providing interpreters is something they should do. I just also think that working (when possible) working on your listening and comprehending skills is something you (not you personally, us as the other end of the paradigm) should do too.
I am also curious about your experiences with your implant, if you’d be willing to talk about it at all :)
I know you mean well and that you’re not referring to all deaf people, but what you’re saying is still problematic and perpetuates harmful ideas that disabilities can be overcome with “practice.” I get that honing listening skills is a thing for CI users; been there, done that, could talk about it for days. But effort can only take you so far (and for me and many others, that’s really not very far at all).
What’s more important is that we recognize the physical limitations posed by disabilities which can never be overcome by any sort of effort, that we recognize the societal barriers faced by PWD that were established by design and push forward in creating more accessible options, and listen to and believe PWD when we say what our needs are.
(And maybe not pressure PWD to conform to society’s idea of what’s considered normal, because, y’know, disabilities are as natural as anything, will always exist, are just differences in human experience, and everyone can benefit from a society that is adaptable to a wide variety of needs and perspectives.)
Thats not my point at all. I completely agree that society should be adaptable to a wide variety of needs and perspectives, and I respect everyone’s right to make their own choices with their lives. My goal was never to down play the challenges of people with disabilities. In fact I applaud you for your self advocacy, something everyone needs bit especially if you have a differing ability to the typical population.
However I disagree that working on a skill that would open up communication to a wider swatch of the world is “problematic” (honestly the word problematic rubs me the wrong way, it’s been co-opted by the crazy branch of SJWs. But that’s another story). I don’t think that advocating for self improvement in any way is problematic. The thing with deafness in particular is that you don’t really hear with your ears, you hear with your brain. Brains adapt, brains are awesome and can learn to work in new ways with practice. I think that it’s a limiting belief to say that “effort can only take you so far.”
Maybe it’s just me being a realist/pessimist, but I know that just counting on people to do what they are supposed to do to accommodate disabilities will often leave you frustrated and excluded. People, including those with disabilities need to work to be as self sufficient as possible. I think that a two pronged approach is best, change societal opinions of course! Go advocate, be the change and all that, but also strive to better yourself. Because you can.
Also to jump back to my original comment, I spoke about in the future this kind of thing happening less often but only if younger generations work towards both goals.
Stepping right the fuck in here. I’m the “Winchester” that article refers to. You are using this issue as a platform for YOUR issue, which is entirely separate, controversial, and completely irrelevant to the actual situation. That’s pretty darn rude of you. And looking at what you keep saying, you are so incredibly biased. I have hearing aids, have a consult in progress for CIs and will probably be rejected (for a reason I’m about to explain). “Work on being self sufficient”? There are absolute limits to what you can do independently. I have an auditory processing disorder on top of my physical hearing loss. That means that at 33 years old with HAs for 32 of those - with them in, I approach nearly normal hearing levels, but I cannot understand what I hear. You could be standing behind me and talking. I could hear you, but wouldn’t be sure if you were even talking, much less what you were saying. I’m an excellent lipreader (there’s that whole “teach yourself to be self-sufficient” thing you keep yapping about) but that is imperfect and incomplete and inadequate in SO many ways and conditions. When I go in for my CI consult, I realize that one of the conditions is that I must be able to identify sounds with a certain percentage of accuracy, and I expect I may fail that. Then what are you going to say to me? I didn’t practice, or try hard enough because I didn’t “train my brain” to “hear and listen”? That whole “hearing and listening” shit is BULLSHIT on so many levels, and for me to go into it here would make this both a super long post and detract from THE ACTUAL ISSUE. The actual issue, in case you forgot, is that human beings are being denied equal access to events. In some cases, there are laws - in some cases there are not. The law should not matter. People should look at it as a basic human right to grant access even if the law does not demand that they do so. Take your “hear and listen” and get the hell away from me with it. Go find some other issue to staple it to, because I am having none of it here.
So you just glossed right over the fact that I emphatically said multiple times that I agree with you. Advocating for people to better themselves is ableism now? Yeah ok
It is when you keep repeating it as you are, and acting like every Deaf person (or any person with disabilities really) has the exact same ability and capacity to “better themselves”. If you even stop and think about it, it’s blatantly impossible for that to be true. And you act like it’s our fault, because we didn’t “better ourselves” enough to be able to NOT need to ask for accommodations. THAT is ableism.
Ableism is thinking that disabled people are inferior. Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said “everyone has the exact same capacity to better themselves.” Nor did I ever imply that anything was your fault. In fact I denounced creation several times in my first response and haven’t changed my tune since then. I keep repeating myself because it appears that im being misunderstood and people are putting words in my mouth.
You used the example of D/deaf people as an example for the later issue of accessibility, and I said multiple times (scroll up) that accommodations should be made for people with disabilities. But until the day comes when we live in a perfect world where everyone does what they are supposed to, I’m going to advocate for both companies/events to be held responsible and everyone working towards being the best version of themselves.
The best version of themselves, as judged by whom exactly?
By themselves. No one can judge you except yourself
The fact that you think pwd need to “better themselves” is BLATANT ableism. You are overtly seeing pwd as inferior if your mindset is that we are something that needs to be improved.
It’s not pwd that should improve. It’s everyone. If you are not working on improving in life then you are stagnant and start moving backwards.
The fact that you came in here singling out deafness specifically as a deficiency that needs to be improved, is ableist. Yeah self improvement can be a good thing, but I don’t see my deafness as something bad or a weakness that needs to be improved. However, I do think that ableist/audist worldviews are nasty af, so you might want to listen to your own advice.
The main topic of the article was deafness. Don’t make it sound like I brought this out of left field. This is my field. I work with people to improve their communication. So yes my place of origin is a growth mindset. I did not say being deaf makes you less than or inferior. If you think I’m ableist then I can’t do anything about that but people can read the comments themselves and decide. Have a nice day.
Hi, I read the comments and also decided that you are being wildly ableist. Just in case you felt like you were going to get off the hook for that. If this is “your field,” maybe take a second to get over yourself and listen to actual Deaf people when they share their experiences with you.
I’ve also read the comments and just want to let you know that I too have decided you’re being grossly ableist. In fact, you used language that’s ableist toward an entirely different group of people (including me, hi!) while trying to prove how not ableist you are. That would almost be impressive, if it weren’t actually harmful and indicative of your deeply internalized ableism.
Since you’re so committed to “being your better self,” maybe you can use this opportunity to learn from the people who have freely offered their intellectual labor to explain the problems with what you said and how you said it, rather than repeatedly doubling down on your own ableist points?
(In case it wasn’t clear, in this case your “better self” would be one that is less ableist.)
I have no idea what other group of people I could possibly have been ableist against. Please enlighten me.
Go read over the conversation carefully and better educate yourself about ableism until you figure it out. Unless you want to pay me for my intellectual labor, in which case you can DM me your paypal so I can invoice you.
But it’s an incredibly common ableism issue and you’re very assured in everyone’s ability to “better” themselves, so this shouldn’t be hard for you!
Now I wanna jump in here. As someone who was born profoundly deaf and has been dealing with this my ENTIRE LIFE, I feel that I have a right to state my opinion about this topic. Yes we can all agree that accommodations should be provided when necessary however, relying on people sucks. I’ve never wanted anything more than to not have to rely on someone for anything I’ve ever needed. I am also blind just for context, so my biggest issue is not being able to drive and not currently living near public transit. So I see some of your points about self sufficiency. Like I can’t practice being less blind. BUT I can practice navigating/dealing with my progressive vision loss as it continues to get worse. I can practice with my guide dog and create more trust in her to get me where I need to go. I can practice asking people for blah blah blah. All those things/skills you use to work within your disability. While you may be someone who is doing all these things or whatever you need to do to become more self sufficient, there are plenty of people who would much rather not work on these things, and just expect everyone to go out of their way to give them what they want. These people are the ones who human-impala is referring to.
So yeah, as someone who is in a similar situation to all of you and with multiple disabilities I can completely agree that everyone needs to work on self sufficiency because you can never completely rely on other people. Whether it is the law, a basic human right, or whatever. And it is certainly not ableist to think that everyone can improve.
