OOC- Why Jyder Makes Sense
Hey everyone! I know we’ve been pretty absent around here for the most part but I really enjoy seeing all the non-roleplay posts that people make so I thought I’d make one. I re-read the story when I was waiting for the last chapter of the fourth book and I found some things that were really interesting to read after knowing what happens later in the story. It may make me really lame to analyze a fanfiction about something that is already fiction but I couldn’t help myself. This is going to be realIy long. Just know that I do this with PLL all the time, I must do it with this.
I want to start with this:
That’s in World of Chances when Ryder is singing “21 Guns” with Marley, Harmony and a few others (during their Broadway showcase at McKinley, ch 22). It was interesting because at the time I agreed with Bree that he was going to end up with either Harmony or Marley but now I don’t think I can see either of those things happening!
My theory? He’ll find someone completely new or it’ll be Julie. I just don’t see more than friendship with Marley and if he does get back with Harmony it feels like a lot is going to have to change for him to get there!
He’s too big of a sweetheart to never marry though so Kitty is definitely not winning that bet!
Now I’ve said that Ryder and Julie could end up together, which is crazy because I think we all have really been expecting it to be Sam for the last book and a half (at least) but since the first three chapters of the new book, it has seemed to me that Ryder is more boyfriend-ey to her than Sam is.
And even after she and Ryder broke up, there was a lot of subtext about them not getting over each other, despite them dating other people along the way (Jake;Carrie;Harmony;Sam;etc.)
I’m going to go as far as to say that had Ryder not been such a dick to Julie after Jake kissed her (and the many aftermaths after that) they would’ve never broken up. Because he was really insecure about her past with Sam and her potential future with Jake. It reminds me of stories where there’s some sort of prophecy and the fact that someone believes in it causes the events to happen (like in Oedipus or with Voldemort, trying to stop the prophecy ended up being what made it come true).
And that happened with Ryder. He was the one who pushed her towards Jake, who was waiting with open arms and (not completely defending Julie here) made it easy for Julie to choose Jake over him.
So let’s go back to the beginning of the end, the start of book 3. In that summer before senior year, and correct me if I’m wrong here, Ryder got really worried that she was going to break up with him because at the graduation party she sang that Ed Sheeran song with Sam. And then there was everything with Jake and she went to Spain for her dad and Dan’s mom’s honeymoon family trip thing. During that time, I can vividly picture Ryder staring at his phone or at the computer or looking through her old pictures on ig or fb and seeing her with other guys and just losing his shit (this is Ryder we’re talking about, he’s not always completely rational).
So then he ignores her during the summer and when they see each other again he breaks up with her. She begs him not to do that but Sam is back on campus and Jake is getting in the middle of it, Kitty is taunting him about it so, being the weak guy that he was at the time, he pushes her away. And by the time he regrets it and wants to take her back, she already chose to forget him and give Jake a try. Ryder loses.
Speaking of losing, the next little quote moment I have is from the election. During the election, Ryder and Julie were running against each other and they used it to work out a lot of the issues they hadn’t talked about (again, because Ryder lost his shit and just broke up with her without a real conversation).
It seemed like they were back to how they were when they first met, hating each other and throwing insults and taunts and threats even. But when Carrie and her bitches ganged up on Julie during the election, you could pretty much see how Ryder was regretting everything he’d done. She was having a hard time (everyone found out she was bipolar and the cheerios got disbanded remember?) and he was making it worse.
I’m a big Julie fan but I have to admit that she was no more qualified to be the president than anyone else on there (well, Carrie was a bitch but, you know). She was already a leader within the glee club and maybe Ryder did deserve it more. But he still gave it up for her, to show her how sorry he was I would think.
While it didn’t result in her taking him back (which is good because they still had a lot of growing up to do and she had a lot to learn from being with someone like Jake) I think that it was the first step to Ryder rebuilding the very very messed up Jyder train.
You may be thinking, “Jessica, you’re a total noob, Ryder can’t end up with Julie because Sam is going to end up with her!”
IS HE????? (also how do you know my name, hmm?) I know Julie keeps going back to Sam and she never goes back to Ryder but I can tell you why that is.
She feels guilty about how she treated Ryder. She’s said that over and over again (I’m sure I collected some quote about that somewhere here) and she’s never really said it about Sam. She still blames Sam for a lot of what happened with them and she says she feels bad for cheating on Jake though she never says that she should’ve treated him better. She says Ryder was the one that was perfect for her.
And here’s what Marley had to say before the election:
Marley basically says she will never stop loving Jake and Julie will never stop loving Ryder. Does this prove that Jyder is forever-ever? (read that like T-Swift in we are never ever getting back together)
No. It doesn’t. But it means that the possibility is still there (and I guess the possibility of Jake and Marley, though they haven’t interacted much and I don’t see it happening what with Kitty and everything).
Speaking of Marley, though. Here’s why she won’t be a barrier for Jyder to happen. Yes, she is having his baby and yes this led to some heartache for Harmony that made Hyder not work out.
But Julie is also having a baby (two!) with someone else. Understanding what Harmony couldn’t won’t be a problem. As for Marley herself, Julie got along with her way better than Harmony ever did. They’re good friends and Marley seems to be fine with Ryder giving her so much of his time now.
Plus, it doesn’t seem like Marley is in ANY way interested in dating Ryder. There have been many opportunities since the very first book for her to date him but she sees him like a brother in my own opinion and that’s never going to happen if you ask me.
Julie on the other hand, is there any proof that he actually ever let go?
Well they did sing “Let Me Go” and how did that turn out?
In the story it is claimed that the song originally was supposed to say that he’s going to let go but he switches it to “I won’t let go” and that’s the last words that come out of his mouth before he leaves.
Later in that same chapter he sings “When I Was Your Man” and we get this…
That last line tells me that there was a possibility that Jake and Julie were wrong. That Ryder’s actual intention was to let them know that he’d stop getting in the way, not that he would actually let go. Jake and Julie just interpreted it as that!
Am I being too hopeful here? Maybe. My heart has been torn between Jam and Jyder for a while, though I was always much more leaning towards Jam and now I’m back to Jyder.
I thought they might be over for good but considering how close they’ve gotten since her pregnancy, I thought it was possible that they were making a comeback. Let’s be real, he seems more concerned that Julie is dealing well than Marley. But that could just be because Marley has already gone through her freaking out stage and Julie is currently in it.
Still I started paying a lot more attention to their interactions when I reread the last book. From the very start, every single mention of Ryder was interesting to me. Like in Julie’s letter to John at the very beginning.
So what am I reading here, let’s see. She doesn’t see Sam or John because she doesn’t want to see Sam at all. But when she hears that Ryder left, she was like fuck that shit (so sorry for my very bad french) and she called him!
She has a whole long ass paragraph in the letter dedicated to her concern for Ryder and wanting to know that he got his choice and everything was good with him. She even says she skips out on most news about the band. Most.
So what does she tune in for? My guess is anything that had to do with Ryder! And then she says this:
She’s talking about Jake’s disappearance. And she says “It shouldn’t have been him” about Sam, basically saying she regrets losing her virginity to him. “It wasn’t supposed to be.”
Then who was it supposed to be, Julie? Jake? Because she slept with him later on, too, and though there were sparks (it’s sex with Jake, why wouldn’t there be) there wasn’t magic. So I don’t think it was supposed to be Jake either.
Who hasn’t she been with in that way yet? Ryder. That’s right, the guy who, might I add, she had always said she wanted to lose her virginity to. When she stopped using her meds, she almost did, but he stopped it.
Jam supporters (myself in the past included) will say that it only happened because she’s bipolar and had she been taking her meds, she would’ve chosen Sam over him no doubt. But I think the fact that when she was the most impulsive she wanted Ryder should say something. There were no drugs taming her. Just a desire for Ryder. Let that sink in, Jam fans!
So skip forward a little. We know that Julie has kept in contact with Ryder, evidently more than she has with John who is her best friend.
Now they are having their glee reunion. And yes, I am about to blow things way out of proportion! Read the following:
“the girls” Hm? Does this include Julie? I would think so. Because Ryder IS the original. I know the order goes Sam-Ryder-Jake-Sam but I think that Ryder and her had a stronger relationship considering she only dated Sam for like a month before they broke up. And there’s book 2 which is almost entirely dedicated to her and Ryder being in love. So maybe he IS the only one!
Ok, that one’s a stretch I’ll admit. But how about this then?
Despite Ryder leaving music behind, he sure does seem to know a lot about Julie’s involvement with it. Not many people knew about this, I’m assuming, because Sam didn’t. But Ryder had all the details on Julie’s new job before her supposed love interest did. And she made Sam see what would mean a lot to her, while Sam was totally clueless.
That’s a small thing, yes, and it’s just a theory. But one I thought was worth noting. Maybe Ryder has always kept his eye out for news about Julie, the way she had about him during the five year gap? He might be doing it even after:
If my theories have been right, maybe Ryder wasn’t just eavesdropping for funsies. Maybe he wanted to hear more about what Julie was up to, since he obviously knows how much her life/career connected to Santana’s at the time. Later in that same scene, Marley sits down at the bar to let him know Carrie and Stefan are dating. He says:
So he doesn’t care that Carrie, his last (that we know of) serious girlfriend is now dating his frenemy who she cheated on him with, but he cares enough to know that Julie is working at the studio, something which doesn’t at all involve him?
Interesting. Also, note that he apathetically talks to Marley about John. No jealousy there. Is Ryley a ship that’ll sail? I think not. He goes on to give her advice about him so I think it’s safe to say he’s never really been madly in love with her and he probably never will be.
Again, he makes a point that he doesn’t care if Carrie is back. Not one bit.
So there weren’t very many actual interactions between the two, which is another reason we may have missed the obvious spark that’s still there.
But then when they are having the viewing party for the “Just the Girl” music video, we have our first real Jyder conversation and it makes my heart flutter.
She forces Alex, who is technically her client, to help Ryder (my guess is she doesn’t want Ryder working too hard, which is too sweet!). Not to mention that Ryder is even helping to begin with. He has no business here. He’s just a guest to their party. But I can already imagine him volunteering to help her out, “anything for you” he says in my mind. Anything!
And then this happens and I nearly die:
It breaks my heart. They hardly see each other and he’s glad. Why does he want the distance? My guess is he needs it. His heart still secretly yearns for her but he’s had to push those feelings for her back as much as possible to the point where he almost doesn’t notice them anymore. Almost.
He admits to still loving hanging out, but he wants time apart. Because it hurts damn it, because it hurts. And maybe, just maybe, he was about to hint at this being the case but then this happens.
Damn it Carrie, YOU’RE THE BITCH! You interrupted the only Jyder moment we were to have for a while! They were talking about each other with each other. That’s so rare at this point and you interrupted damn it!
Let me just say that Carrie was totally a Julie surrogate for Ryder. I’ve always thought this. I think he was just with her because she’s the opposite of Carrie while also being the closest thing to being like her.
It’s like Sam with Mandy, he even admitted to Quinn when he first met Mandy that what he liked most about her was how different she was from Julie.
But not Ryder. Because he got himself a head cheerleader. Cheerleaders come in two types at McKinley: the clever ones and the airheads. He could’ve dated Jordan (who has liked him since book 1) or even Peyton, who still hadn’t gotten involved with Dan and doesn’t seem to have a type (she did have a thing with Stefan, who is like the Ryder surrogate in some ways).
Yet he chose Carrie of all people. Julie’s number one rival. The one who would keep him closest and farthest from Julie at the same time.
And now Carrie interrupts, so back to that. Julie rolls her eyes. Carrie and her stopped having beef long ago but I’m sure every time Julie saw her she didn’t think of the election or the bullying or of her and Stefan. She thought of the fact that Ryder actually turned to her for comfort after they broke up. And she must hate Carrie for being with him.
Now, around this time, Julie is starting to (without her knowledge) develop feelings for Sebastian (and I can write an entire separate essay about why I think that was always completely one-sided and he never had a thing for her to begin with) and also rekindle her thing with Jake.
Not with Ryder, with Jake. And why did that happen? Was it just to finish what they started? Possibly. Ryder and Julie got closure and stayed friends whereas Jake and Julie didn’t. Besides, Leila was circling Jake and Julie probably got defensive and jealous.
But that doesn’t make Jake the right guy for her, does it? In fact, it served us to see that he WASN’T the right guy. I don’t think she ever would’ve wanted to try things again had the idea not been softly planted in by other people who made her remember. Like after she records a demo of “Sad Beautiful Tragic” for Santana’s album, John has this to say:
This does NOT include Ryder because while she sang, she said the memories were of the following:
And she’s thinking about Jake and Sam all of the time because she writes songs about them. Most of the Ryder songs had been sung in book 3 when the band was starting out (and Ryder was singing them!) but now it was just Jake/Sam all the time.
We have John here telling her he doesn’t approve of those guys (ie Jake and Sam) and she jokes that she just wanted them more now.
What if that wasn’t a joke? Maybe deep down it did make Julie want Jake, want Sam. John disapproved and thus she wanted it. She’s always loved doing things John didn’t want her to do, after all (we can’t forget the reason she brought back all her Sam feelings during their production of RENT-John told her not to).
So she gets wrapped into this Jake-Sam cycle again starting with this moment. Coincidence? I think not!
Most of what happens next for Julie in the story has to do with Jake and Sam, which is relevant but this is a Jyder post so we’ll skip past it.
There isn’t much on Julie OR Ryder in the next few chapters but when Finn calls all alumni to the school, we do get this:
How interesting. We all know now that Jake did eventually choose Kitty and realized it had been her all along. Marley saw this from the start (she says so in chapter 3 of book 5, the most recent chapter).
But Ryder didn’t see this, even if he agrees. In the moment, when Jake said he had feelings for someone else and Julie appeared, he didn’t seem to think it could be Kitty, not at all. His mind immediately saw Julie and Julie only.
Can you tell how badly I want this to be the case?!
Finn starts the meeting, Harmony interrupts, and things get really awkward. It’s the beginning of the possibility that Hyder will happen after all (as we know, it does eventually but then crashes and burns).
Then Stefan suggests for them to go out and a few of them have excuses, like Jake:
See? Julie doesn’t care. Probably because Harmony just walked in and Ryder had an outburst about his surprise, distracting Julie from anything else that was said. She does end up hooking up with Jake, yes, but in here, she doesn’t care whether he’s with Leila or not. I think she cares about Hyder.
While singing “Show Me How You Burlesque” Harmony catches Ryder’s eye. And even as he’s considering dating her, he remembers about “the girls he had given a chance” (Julie and Carrie) and notes that they aren’t up there. If you remember, Julie didn’t sing with them because Kara had joined in and she was worried about the effect it was having on Alex.
But Ryder notices that Julie’s not up there and, I’m sure, pictures her up there. Otherwise, how would he make the comparison to Harmony? Mmm?
As Jake and Julie’s fling heats up, we don’t see much of Ryder. The next he appears, actually, is 6 chapters later during “A Mika Story Part 2″ when a group goes to talk to the New Directions.
This group, coincidentally, also includes Bree, Sam, Kitty, Alex, Jake, Harmony and… Julie. Yes, Julie. So we get Ryder again and it does in fact include her.
What happens here that I could possibly spin into a Jyder moment? A lot actually!
Sorry this is completely irrelevant but I thought it was hilarious ^
In actual Jyder news, there’s this:
Jake brings them up first. It won’t be the only time, but it starts with Jake. He didn’t have to say it, but despite being the one most recently involved with Julie (they ended in this chapter), he still included the others. And Ryder should’ve really been irrelevant by that point.
He feels the need to interject when she talks about how she joined glee.
I think this one proves that Kitty knows he’s still missing his high school years. Which did revolve around Julie if we’re being honest. Deductive reasoning would tell us that Kitty knows Ryder’s mind still revolves around Julie.
Then Julie makes the realization that she wants to be a pro singer and we miss out on more Jyder potentials for a while. He’s absent during the Halloween chapters and only returns to do the broadway showcase, which I discussed already when I started this post. The bet. It’s Marley, Harmony, or no one according to Britty.
So after that comes Homecoming and it focuses on the two sets of glee generations being very different from each other. At first Ryder is mentioned a lot but without doing anything (Crystal Army rehearses for a show at the club and Alex asks if it’s weird to rehearse in Ryder’s presence since he was the original drummer; Brittany tells Santana that the bartender at the club knew her name and must’ve been a fan of Fondue For Two, not realizing it’s Ryder).
Then there’s the subplot of Amity, Marley and Ryder hanging out to work on a mural together (I think it was to give Amity a pathway to realizing she wanted to switch from photography to music) They also come up with the idea to have a bonfire at Homecoming.
And we get this awesome Jyder quote from Jake!
Jake says it, you guys, Jake! Sam always talks about how he was never jealous of Jake the way he was of Ryder. Jake basically just told Leila the same thing. A constant struggle between them because they both loved Julie.
But they are done for good. Note, this is when Jake just decided he was over Julie so they are done because he’s done, not because Ryder is done! Sadly, while we get that beautiful quote, Julie is having dinner with Sebastian (it’s her birthday) and getting to know him, leading to her developing feelings for him.
And Julie breaks my heart with this:
She’s comfortable with Ryder. Safe was never something she enjoyed. She didn’t need a guy to feel special. But comfortable is a good word for the person she wants to love! But then she says none of them were right for her.
Obviously she can change her mind because she goes back to Sam. And it’s possible she said all of these things under Sebastian’s enchantment (no one can resist Grant Gustin’s charm tbh). And even Sebastian says in response:
But then guys, then… Ryder gives me back my hope! The bonfire is starting and this happens:
Alex wasn’t even there but it didn’t matter. Unless Ryder secretly loves Sebastian, it wasn’t until JULIE ARRIVED that they could start. Julie!
What happens next is Julie and Sebastian start to get along very well and Ryder sinks back into the background for a bit. But it’s still important to point out what happened with Sebastian. He was another guy who Julie slept with but didn’t work out with. Because sex and love aren’t the same as we all know. And who’s the only guy from all of these that she didn’t sleep with? That’s right, Ryder. Pretty sure she even slept with Shawn (maybe she’ll end up with him, that’s a possibility I can consider, we don’t know where he’ll fit in later).
But not Ryder. And here’s what Santana had to say when she saw Julie and Sebastian getting closer:
This tells us a lot. It tells us Julie just wanted to change Sam and Jake, if we can believe Santana’s interpretation of her love life. Same goes for Sebastian. But Ryder? Ryder was mean to her, yes, but only to protect Marley. He wasn’t actually a jerk, just with her. She didn’t change him. He was already a sweetheart with her before they started dating. So Santana’s logic fails only with Ryder.
Next we see Ryder hanging out with Marley and Amity (for the mural, for Sectionals) and it isn’t until the very end that he shows his “anything for you” helpful side for Julie by bringing out a stool for her to sit in when Satan’s Trident performs “Try” and that’s about it for them.
Next the alumni are asked to perform mash-up quartets with the New Directions and as Julie grows close to Sebastian, Ryder gets closer to Bree. We know that Bree is the reason he eventually ends up having a baby with Marley but let’s slow down and analyze what happens on the way there.
During the original publication of these chapters, I was sure that Ryder would want to date Bree. But now I see where I went wrong; Bree isn’t similar enough to Julie to appeal to Ryder.
Anyway, Ryder sings a mash-up of “Payphone” and “Little Things” and they crush the performance. Julie and Alex sing their mash up of “Love Story” and “The One That Got Away” (ironic given the Taylor/Katy feud).
And Julie says she wasn’t sure who she wrote the song about. I wondered if maybe it was Ryder, since she doesn’t easily admit when songs are about him. When it’s Sam or Jake, she knows almost instantly.
Although it could also be Shawn. “He knelt to the ground and pulled out a ring” happened with Sam but it also happened with Shawn.
Thanksgiving rolls around and the two are pretty busy. Julie’s avoiding Sebastian’s flirtations while Ryder is helping Kitty and Bree keep everyone friendly.
Then they are choosing teams for their football game and these were all the people playing:
Marley, Shana, Albany, Kara, Leila, Julie, Dan, John, Alex, Sebastian, Peyton, Sam, Mandy, Tyler, Luke and Jake. Ryder and Stefan are choosing their teams in a good ol’ draft.
I would think that first you’d want to take all the potentially good players. From the guys, I imagine that Sam has the most experience with football. John is athletic (remember he plays baseball) and so is Jake (football). From the girls, I’d imagine Kara, Shana, Leila and Peyton are good choices. So is Mandy. They’re all in top shape. We know Marley isn’t athletic, we don’t know much about Albany, we know Dan is terrible, Sebastian is a wild card, so is Tyler, Luke doesn’t seem at all athletic. And then there’s Julie, who was a cheerleader and dancer but as of late hasn’t kept up (and she’s super tiny, so she would be useless in football).
And what happens surprised me in the best of ways.
Ryder chooses Sam first, which is logical. Then Stefan takes John, also logical. And Ryder takes Alex, which wouldn’t have been my next choice but it doesn’t totally suck. I would’ve gone with Jake, which is why it makes sense when Stefan asks Jake if he’s knee’s ok and Jake assures him that it is. Still, Stefan chooses Leila instead. Leila is also small, but she’s super fit (she and Jake met at the gym) so I can accept this choice.
But then Ryder… This just drives me crazy! In a good way, but still, look:
He chooses Julie. There were so many people who would’ve been better choices, particularly his pal Jake. But he wants Julie. How can you ask me NOT to read into this?
And she’s glad she’s not in a dress but I bet Ryder wishes she was! And then they get a little touchy with each other later in their game:
He could’ve easily given her a high-five the way Alex did, but no. He not only trusted her with the ball to begin with, but when she won him that round (I don’t know how football works, “round”?) he decides to spin her around, overjoyed. I’m reminded of what it must’ve been like when they dated and they were the football player and the cheerleader!
Then at dinner, they sit together:
We know Bree wanted to sit with Ryder and we know that Sebastian wanted to sit with Julie. But there was no reason for Ryder and Julie to sit next to each other. And it just happened.
And then when Julie walks out (after Kitty’s mom insults her) Sebastian says this:
Again, someone else pointing out that Jyder wants high school back. Deep down, I’m thinking they want each other back.
And we get a reminder from Kitty that Jake stole Ryder’s girlfriend:
So then Ryder gets caught up in helping Bree with her fashion show, while also watching the Jake-Leila-John love triangle that unfolds. Then Bree gets started on unraveling his love life and we get this hilarious quote from Ryder about Mandy:
I thought it was worth noting because who else agrees that Mandy is the most attractive person on the planet? Sam! Sam who traded her up for Julie like a broken toy at the store!
Then he tells Bree what the most important thing is to him:
Why is that? Because Carrie cheated on him? He stayed with her when he found out though. How about the fact that he always had doubts about who Julie really loved. Maybe it’s that. Maybe he still holds on to that doubt, wonders whether she would ever love him anymore and knows he could never truly now the truth or trust in it. Maybe, maybe, maybe.
So nothing else happens as far as Jyder is concerned. Then Julie and Alex have a housewarming party and Ryder is a designated driver, while Julie is drunk out of her mind. And Ryder totally gets her:
He gives her the most reassuring compliment in her time of need:
The next we hear from Ryder is during the Christmas chapters. And that’s where things get interesting for him. Bree has a present for him; she’s going to set up his love life for him.
There’s Julie! But let’s continue to what Bree says when trying to sell him on the idea:
Call me crazy (which I am) but it seems like he was thinking about it. Maybe thinking about her nice little ass even. And then Ryder gives his reasoning for not wanting Julie:
I think it’s fair to say that Ryder has been thinking about Julie (as I’ve pointed out above) and it wouldn’t be too far-fetched to say that maybe he crossed out Julie so quickly because he knows he could fall again. He knows how it is when he starts to let himself love her and he doesn’t want to take that chance again! Am I wrong or right? Only time will tell.
In fact, he does hint at there being more to him not pursuing her in the later chapters. As he explains to Kitty, Albany and Amity:
I get why he’s saying no about Harmony without ever trying. He sees her as a friend and later as more but only because he forces himself to. It was clear here that he didn’t want anything else, not until Marley rejected him. And he felt as though anything with Julie was hopeless, as we can see in the quote above.
See, Julie chose Jake over him and Ryder hasn’t let that go. He thinks there will always be someone Julie prefers and that’s practically traumatized him into believing there is no chance for him. He believes she has long moved on and that forces him to refuse giving it a chance.
I will forgive Albany because she’s a newcomer and doesn’t know. But the reasons are very clear. Marley never loved him. Julie did, but he was scared of her not loving anymore and pushed her away (we went over this!). Those are the reasons.
Just look at the way he “blushed at the thought” I can’t believe I missed that when I first read it. He was picturing himself having SEX WITH JULIE!! xD
It seems like any time that Ryder tries to think of someone romantically, his mind goes to an immediate Julie comparison.
And just like with the bonfire, it’s not until Julie joins the group that he considers everyone being there, even if some people were missing:
The New Year comes and things get interesting for Ryder. Julie is in the middle of a blossoming fling with Sebastian (who again, I suspect faked his affections for her the entire time to manipulate her) and Ryder is about to make the biggest decision of his life (to donate his sperm to Marley).
First, Bree asks Ryder if he has decided on a girl yet and he says:
This is so good! For Jyder anyway! We know he chooses Marley because she is his best friend and he thinks this means something, changing his mind when Marley says she just wants to have a baby with him.
And then he switches to Harmony. But why not to Julie? He’d give ANYTHING to make them work again. She was his first REAL love. But he chooses Harmony even though he said he couldn’t see her like that.
My theory stands. He secretly yearns for another chance with Julie, the only girl she ever really loved, but he doesn’t think she’ll accept him. She has moved on in his eyes and he’s scared of her breaking his trust again by leaving him for another guy.
So he makes the safe choice. He chooses Harmony, who will never hurt him because she liked him first, not the other way around. That’s his logic.
So let’s back track a little. He gave no “but” for why he couldn’t choose Julie. Just moved right onto Marley and Harmony. Then Bree tells him to go with Marley and he says:
He’s basically talking about what happened with Julie, what I’ve been saying all along. He doesn’t want to have his heart broken again the way he did with Julie. That was his big insecurity with her, that she didn’t actually love him the way he loved her. That’s what’s holding him back. So I don’t think he’s actually talking about Marley here, but about Julie.
Meanwhile, Julie is making plans to meet with Sebastian at the same open mic night that Ryder has now made a date with Marley at (where he works) and interestingly Julie says this:
I wouldn’t think much of it, Ryder does work there, but it seems like she’s thought it out. She thought about it and thought about what Ryder would think. She may not have realized it, but it seems as though a big part of her still thinks about Ryder deep down.
And everyone else associates Ryder with Julie:
Anyway, Marley says it wasn’t a date, which leads to Ryder showing up at Harmony’s door with flowers the next day. Now he’s a lot more desperate for love, the idea is in his head, but he still won’t consider Julie. He’d do ANYTHING to get her back, as he told Bree, but he wasn’t going to actually risk anything. He’d rather pursue someone he didn’t have feelings for. Interesting.
And I don’t know if this is a coincidence or not, but at the New Year’s Eve party, take a look at Ryder and Julie’s costumes:
Frankenstein’s monster and Sally?? Two creatures sown together from different parts? I could write a whole essay about that too!
Still, they don’t really interact and in that chapter, Sebastian and Julie become an actual item (not just hooking up) with Sam’s blessing, and Ryder agrees to have a baby with Marley while also beginning to see Harmony. Crazy shit.
The next Ryder mention happens as Julie records “Blank Space” which goes on to become her biggest hit. She thinks about her ex-lovers here:
Chemistry with Sam. Attraction with Sam. Curiosity with Sebastian.
It comes down to what you think is most important in a relationship. Not attraction or curiosity, that’s for sure. Chemistry is pretty important.
But isn’t affection what it comes down to? You have to care for someone in order to love them don’t you?
Meanwhile, Ryder is having a night in with Harmony and they sing “I Should Tell You” which is really sweet but I’m cringing because now I just see it as him forcing it to happen. He forced himself to like her and then they have sex.
We go a few chapters without hearing from Ryder. But when we do get him back, it’s for a Jyder scene!
There’s a career fair at the school and they run into each other. Here’s what happens:
Pretty long Jyder convo, it had been a while.
They hug. They mention that it’s been a while. And they have a pretty normal conversation.
I think he’s the only one Julie can do this with tbh.
After Jesse gives an anti-business speech, they take Bree to the teachers’ lounge. And after Bree tells Julie that her brother is Kitty’s new campaign manager and Julie panics:
He can read her like a book! He knew to change the subject! It doesn’t work however because Julie confesses what a mess her life is and Bree brings up the fact that she’s dating Sebastian. Then she reveals that Kitty likes Cory and this is Ryder’s response:
Jealousy, I say! Jealousy on both sides! And after Bree leaves them alone to take a business call, there’s more:
If you don’t realize this yet, Julie has now started talking to Ryder about her sex life. He responds:
He totally gets bothered by that! He blushes when he pictures himself having sex with her but he makes a face and refuses to hear more details when he’s picturing her with him. And he seems to agree right away that Sebastian and her have stopped clicking, arguably telling her that she and him don’t work.
It doesn’t end there though. This is REALLY important:
He tells her she’s not in love with Sebastian. She doesn’t tell him, he tells her. That says something.
Then he gets curious about Sam. Sam, who he was always insanely jealous of. Sam, who made him so insecure. He wants to know what’s happening there.
And they’re talking about Artie’s story and the Jam argument that Jyder only happened because of her bipolar. And now she’s got Ryder thinking the same:
Ryder thinks the Jam shippers are right! But look at the first three words “to her dismay” Julie doesn’t want him to think so. And there’s that word again “affection” which is the word she used for him earlier, too. But Julie refuses to believe the Jam shippers!
She refuses to use her disorder as an excuse for her choice. And Ryder says:
Have I not been saying Sam was always the biggest threat? Ryder doesn’t forget this, evidently. He still thinks, as he told Amity, Albany and Kitty on Christmas Eve, that Julie will always feel like she can do better.
This is probably why he asked about Sam to begin with. He wanted to check in. Was she still emotionally unavailable? Apparently yes so he’s not going to go there.
Then they are interrupted and before Ryder leaves he says:
And that right there is why Ryder will always be her best choice, despite what he seems to believe. He cares about what she wants first. Doesn’t matter if that’s not him, he wants her to have what she wants. Sam wants to be what she wants. That’s very different.
And then when Kitty asks Julie if she and Sebastian are going to break up Julie says:
This tells us two things: Julie really values Ryder’s opinion and we know that Ryder definitely doesn’t think Julie will forget Sam (further supporting the theory that this is why he hasn’t chosen her)
As if that weren’t enough, even Kitty says it!
Basically what I’ve been saying. Thank you Kitty. So in the end, Julie does break up with Sebastian when he says he won’t be exclusive with her.
And then we don’t hear anything else from Ryder. Julie just thinks about him when singing a song with Sam. She says she wouldn’t call Sam her first love because that title was reserved for Ryder.
And then a few chapters later Alex tells Julie what really goes wrong:
Julie has commitment issues. Not as big as John, but even John is planning on getting married now. Which means that Ryder will have to get over her or she will have to get over her issues for the Jyder ship to sail.
But she’s not the only one who needs to make some changes. When Ryder returns for more storylines, it’s when we start to see his baby with Marley getting in the way of his relationship with Harmony. And Harmony gives him this piece of truth:
As we know, Ryder has been prioritizing Julie a lot in the more recent chapters so I’d say he’s done a pretty good job of showing who his heart is really in it for now.
They have Disney 4.0 and Ryder makes an interesting observation which involves, shocker, Julie.
Looking for excuses to say her name, eh, Ryder?
Sadly, that’s all we get because Ryder moves at the end of the second Disney chapter. But we get to see Julie reference him. For example in the next chapter when she finds out he left. In fact, she’s the first person whose reaction we see.
Notice that Julie is shocked that he would leave and even more so that he would take Marley with her.
It should also be worth noting that Julie starts to do drugs around this time. She needs to focus and she needs to control herself but her regular medication isn’t enough and she brings in drugs. Would it be a stretch to connect these feelings of emptiness to the loss of Ryder?
And she still has hope for him. She thinks about him again while singing “Heartless”
This last one is interesting because it draws parallels to when Ryder was trying to choose a girl. He crosses most of them out, but not Julie. He just doesn’t say anything other than good things. And then he settles for another.
I think this happened her, too. She is overwhelmed by Sam’s upcoming wedding. And Ryder is gone. But she doesn’t want the others at all.
A lot more crazy shit happens when time for the wedding comes. Then they go to Hawaii and during “I Will Never Let You Know” Julie mentions Ryder again. She’s in a heightened state of angst and she cries to Sam about her obvious abandonment issues:
The only one who literally left though was Ryder. And the drugs came shortly after. Think about that.
We know what happens next. They have sex. And it’s not until the soccer game that comes when they return to Ohio that Jake throws around the possibility that it’s not Sam she’s meant to be with.
Jake could’ve mentioned any people. But he mentioned the most obvious (Sam), the most undesired (Sebastian) and the most logical. Ryder. Ryder makes so much sense that without needing to, Jake throws his name in there.
Then Shawn comes back into Julie’s life. I still think there will be something there with him, something important. I just don’t know what.
Then Julie finds out that she’s pregnant. Sam plans a very romantic night for them on the empty McKinley campus and after he sings to her and says he chooses her, she says she doesn’t know who she chooses anymore.
A part of her left with Ryder. I think this is when people started thinking there would be a Jyder return. I know I did.
They talk about regrets and about going back and changing the past if they could. Then there’s the question that changed it all for me as a previous Jam shipper:
The only person she thought of herself as fated to be with is Ryder. The only one that was going to happen no matter one, the one she always had to love. Ryder. And she basically sums up everything I’ve said:
And when Sam says that in this different reality, they wouldn’t have had sex in Schue’s office, she admits a truth that broke the heart of Jam shippers all over the world but gave hope to the Jyder lovers:
She cheated on Jake with Sam. But she would never cheat on Ryder. Never, with anyone. He was perfect. And the reason for her cheating on Jake wasn’t completely pure.
And the best thing she could’ve said:
It makes me feel bad but at the same time laugh. Here Sam is telling her these romantic things about never loving anyone the way he loved her. And she says Ryder treated her the best out of all her boyfriends. Then she says Shawn was the one who broke her heart the most. So Sam did neither the most nor the least damage.
It’s safe to say she breaks his heart with her words.
Ryder comes back for the wedding but we sadly don’t get anything Jyder related, just that he doesn’t seem heartbroken about seeing Harmony again.
Later Bree does the same thing she did for Ryder for Julie. She has pictures. And one of them is of Ryder.
We find out Kitty’s truly a Jyder shipper.
And Julie doesn’t seem to have a solid reason for why it wouldn’t work out.
The real magic happens during the Paramore special. Ryder and Marley return! And there’s an entire scene dedicated to Ryder being the best guy on the planet for Julie. At first they joke:
And they note that the children aren’t with each other. But they have hopes of them being together:
Did anyone else realize that they’ve actually talked about having kids before? That’s huge!
Despite his previous words, Ryder still shows doubt that Julie and Sam will end up together:
But he is supportive of her regardless! And he ends their long conversation in the sweetest way possible:
Aren’t they the cutest? If you don’t ship Jyder by now, you need to get your heart checked!
They sing a Paramore song together and then he travels to San Diego with her and the others. There, when Sam says moving in together will be “useful” he and Amity are there to comfort her.
When Sam complains to Alex about Julie leaving, he says with Ryder “of all people” so there’s still got to be some jealousy there.
During the music festival, Ryder caters to her every need. Sam has no idea what to do with her and doesn’t seem to bother thinking of her health the way Ryder does.
She confides in him her fears that both she and her baby will have cancer. Julie spends the weekend with him and Bree.
In the final chapter, there is A LOT of Ryder.
Julie mentions him when Sam apologizes for leaving her and she says they’ll never choose each other:
It’s pretty clear. If Ryder knew how Julie was thinking he might get himself to admit his obvious feelings for her. Then Ryder actually returns to help Bree demolish her empire. Bree offers him a space in her house for when Marley and he come back to Lima. A space for Julie, too. And of course, Ryder has curious concern about Julie and Sam:
He seems rather thoughtful about Julie’s determination to never love Sam again. And he’s also very concerned for her, naturally.
He goes to see her and summarizes for her how she feels about every Harry Potter book and a few other novels. After all that time he still remembers. Wow.
Then he sees his rational approach to convincing her to stay doesn’t work. He pushes her buttons. He knows just how to get her to agree to not go on tour. And it works.
After all the people who tried to change her mind, it was Ryder who finally did it.
Not sure what will happen in the next book but I will continue to analyze later in a separate post. This took up a lot of my time!
andulkaphoto
germansingergirl
amandla
discoholicmusic
blakekathryn
dailybridgerton
