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@covenforclaudia
so maybe i got a little bit excited a did a thingâŚmy loustat gothic fairytale retelling is published. im really excited to share it with you all because ive worked hard reworking my initial ideas and things but also quite nervous! please read it here
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"I hate when fic writers do this..."
"I hate when fic writers do that..."
I hate when people publically trash the people who spend their time writing stories for free and then share them for their own enjoyment and the enjoyment of others.
Also, boy do I have some great news for you regarding fanfic!
i think itâs actually pretty important that we see lestat lashing out in loneliness induced anger (throwing the record at the wall) just moments before akasha wakes up and he goes on to drink her blood. this anger and his failure to control it have always been a part of him. did akashas blood exaggerate these qualities of him? maybe. lestat certainly believes so (or wants to believe it). but imo the show has been pretty clear in telling us that the blood matters a lot less than lestat wants to acknowledge
it is really interesting to see Lestat fluctuate between deciding where the "source" of these more negative qualities originate from. in season one he says "i am cursed with my father's temper" but in 3x05 as he hits his arguable existential crisis whilst being the keeper multiple different explanations for the "source" of his negative qualities are debated. he says "is my evil sanctioned by nature? or divine error?" (is it something genetic and hereditary? or has there been a mistake in God's design that has led to him being so flawed?) and "am i evil? where is God?" (has he always been a bad person, or was it the failure of God to rescue him from Magnus/vampirism as a whole that caused him to become evil, in the sense that "evil" was conceived when he became a vampire, not when he was human?) OR is the later option Akasha that has caused his. Marius remarks that "the blood now owns him" and he defines Akasha's blood to be "the hell he unleashes"
i don't know i have so many different thoughts this is something really interesting to bring up. especially in a season that is incredibly introspective in the idea of Lestat trying to explain/justify himself for all of his failures.
when i thought that i would have pumped out all my metas by now but i am currently five chapters into a university publication on gothic incest. i am so sorry in advance for how long this gabistat meta is going to be i didn't realise i had so much to say đ
A slightly disorganized set of thoughts:
I talk a lot to friends about why fandom has gotten so weird in the past five or even ten years, and I have theories (COVID, tiktokification, capitalism, etc.). I do think a large part of it is the fact that more people are entering into fandom spaces than ever before. This means thereâs not time to communicate all of our well established norms to every person who enters such as reposts are rude, comments are loved, itâs good etiquette to leave likes and kudos, so on and so forth. This changed the ecosystem significantly.
On top of that though, Iâve noticed something else. Some of these newcomers are using fandom as a replacement for organized religion, which can lead to fanatical or cult like behavior. And listen, I may joke about cults. Iâve long been fascinated by what draws people to them because of my own experiences, but I do think thereâs some credence to this theory. I also see this in leftist and queer circles a lot, and I have some thoughts. Walk with me a minute.
Letâs say someone discovers they are queer. Sadly, their church (or another social group) is NOT happy with this. This culminates in a separation from the high control group. I want to take a moment to sit with how devastating this loss can be. I think this article explains it well. Itâs not just the loss of a physical space like a church. Itâs often an upheaval of an entire belief system, a loss of friends, family, and a change of plans for the future. I do have empathy for people going through this process, or a similar one.
But what do you do once you realize you no longer fit in with a high control group? Thereâs a rigid, structured set of rules. The rules and beliefs are black and white under systems like these: thereâs no room for nuance. To survive in a structure like this, individuals are asked to suspend their humanity to comply with the structure. You assimilate to the group, or you are cast out. Queerness is non compliance in most well known high control groups. The leaving is inevitable.
So individuals need a new space to go once they leave. They a new community to reside in. For some people, this is found in normal artsy queer spaces or activist circles. But for other people, theyâre showing up in fandoms. And Iâm not saying this is a bad thing: I think fandom can be tremendously healing. I know it was for me. I think itâs a great place to explore authenticity. You can take risks creatively and safely. You can also make friends and learn more about others that you were unable to meet before. Itâs a magical place.
Thereâs just one problem: if someone leaves a high control group but does not unlearn the behaviors or beliefs that this group forced them to adopt, they will be susceptible to falling in with another high control group. Perhaps they will even recreate the structure elsewhere.
So why am I sharing all this? I think this is whatâs getting weird in fandom. We have an influx of people trying to recreate a high control structure that forces compliance because they never learned how to be in a group any other way.
Do I have a solution for this? I guess try my best advice is to try and recognize language thatâs used in high control groups. This is probably the only real way to avoid falling into one, or to slowly untangle yourself if you realize you may be falling back into a cycle.
Letâs use the BITE model (thereâs a great write up of how someone inventoried their community at the link). There are lots of things high control groups do to find and maintain control over people, but ultimately I think these ideas are the easiest to remember and spot:
Behavior- Are there rigid, black and white rules you have to follow around this person or group to be seen as âgoodâ or unproblematic?
Information- Do these individuals make claims without sources or scant evidence, but then get defensive when you seek outside perspectives or additional information? This one should be alarming. No one should be controlling your access to information.
Thought- This one is tricky but important. I also think itâs very prominent in fandom spaces. It feels good to be included. We all want this. I donât think itâs inherently bad to be part of a group, and not all groups are cults or controlling. Not even groups with some rules for conduct are. Itâs when the us v.s. them language becomes extreme to the point that âusâ is good and proper and right and âthemâ is bad and evil and wrong. You can see how this quickly leads back to a culture of compliance and control. If you agree with âusâ then you remain good. If you begin to think like âthemâ though⌠one of two things happens. You are either bad, or the group will attempt to stop your new or dissonant line of thinking.
Emotions- How do you feel around this person or group? Really take inventory. At the start, you will probably feel special. But over time, what else is there? Do you feel nervous? Excited? Bored? Anxious? Guilty? Do you feel comfortable voicing these things? Or is there never room to get in touch with your feelings because you are asked to attend to someone elseâs feelings first?
Finally: If you remove yourself from the in group, do they miss you? Ask you if youâre doing okay, but give you an appropriate amount of space? Or (more than likely) do you suddenly find yourself the victim of anon hate and smear campaigns designed to make you untouchable?
These are all tactics used by high control groups. Itâs no coincidence people who have shown up in fandom and were likely once a part of these groups have adopted them here. I do think it takes a lot of awareness to realize you are struggling through these kinds of patterns, and to shed them. But I also think fannish folk in general should be more wary when we see these patterns crop up.
Reblogging this today because I want to make something clear: being asked to dogpile someone because they think differently than you, because itâs the ârightâ thing to do, probably means youâre in a high control group. See âus vs themâ.
I have an update on the TVL/IWTV fandom in the form of some case studies:
Yes, this fandom is originally why I made this post. No, it doesnât have problems that are unique, however I do feel like itâs quite bad as I am in the middle of it. Here are a few examples of âcultâ like features of fandom Iâve noticed.
Information: the screener phenomenon. Iâm not saying amc should have given access to screeners to everyone, if anything, they should have given access to journalists only. Since fandom bloggers attained access, some have been using bits of information to make claims about the series, characters, or moral goodness of other users. Theyâve also discouraged others from watching the show to make this decision for themselves. This lack of access to information is a feature of a cultic group.
2. Behavior: I always suspected this one, but recently someone came clean and shared some users were being guilted, shamed, or intimidated out of voicing differing opinions if they had ever interacted with one of these users. Thatâs a kind of behavioral control.
3. Thought: this one is tricky, but Iâm going to share an example here. This kind of an ask is one, very creepy because itâs a kind of surveillance. But two, itâs a kind of thought stopping. This user shared a theory that a more prominent blogger did not approve of. An anon quickly sent them a message saying the bigger blogger did not agree with the theory. This is called âthought stoppingâ. Not only is it a kind of behavioral modification, but itâs also an attempt to control what others think and make them conform to the group. The âyou were wrongâ language is what makes it a moral issue and not a theory issue.
4. Last but not least, this ask. Itâs unsettling because the userâs name is spelled wrong, which means they have someone keeping tabs on the blog they responded to. I would argue this could fall into many things. Is it emotional control, in that theyâre guilting this person for expressing a dissenting opinion? Is it thought stopping? Is it behavioral control? Maybe itâs all three. Either way, itâs not okay.
I wasnât going to make this post, but this has been frustrating to see the past few weeks. The screener stuff has really turned on the ugly for some people.
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My main upset is the double standards. Have you been in the VC book fandom? I find it interesting that Lestat has never been hounded to this extent, when the situation was more horrific in every way.
"the "sanitsation" of show!Lestat and Claudia's turning i still don't think i agree." I'm confused? Lestat has obviously been sanitized in the show compared to the book; where he turned Claudia to make Louis stay and even beat Louis who tried to stop him. This isn't even up for debate.
Louis wanting a family is being overblown in this situation. If he wanted it so much as to selfishly turn a child into a vampire, surely he would've found any other child earlier? So saving her was first priority, having her as a daughter was secondary. If he took her to the hospital and they failed to save her, that means he's wasted time and It might be too late by the time he reached Lestat.
All three seasons have reiterated that Lestat's greatest fear is loneliness. Lestat's priority always has been Louis. So when Louis came back with Claudia, after threatening to leave Lestat, now promising to stay as a family unit, Lestat accepted that turning Claudia was the price to pay to keep Louis.
Louis' upset was compounded by the racism that closed his business and the riots caused by his retaliation. Claudia dying would've devastated him sure, but he would've moved past it. In pretending to fail, at least Louis won't be upset that Lestat didn't try as best as he could VS standing there until she died. Of course this is all hypothetical. Because the show was adapting the book, and Claudia must be part of it, and must be turned by Lestat.
With Charlie and Maddie, the show demonstrated two instances where she could have found a companion/lover; and she travelled alone for five years, only being thwarted by a stronger vampire, not adult humans. So once again, it's not her age that made her death inevitable, it's circumstances. If the coven didn't murder her, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Claudia and Maddie would be living happy together, and if anything Louis would be praised for saving her.
Back to the books, there are at least two vampires 14 and younger, living and thriving. So aging her up to 14 was a mistake in portraying her tragedy as a five year old vampire.
no, im not in book fandom my blog is for mainly the show-only :)
my question is here if the "sanitisation" of Claudia and Lestat and specifically her she and turning bothered you, why have you kept watching the show until season three? there are logistical reasons as well as narrative reasons for this and i am personally happy with these changes. the show made a lot of changes to the unholy family and its dynamic that i think is consistent with the changes to book that they made when they adapting (e.g. Gabistat incest reinterpreted informs a lot of Lestat's season one behaviour, the difference in Louis' relationship with his family and how that is fleshed out)
i don't think i have overblown Louis' desire for a family. just because he is not explicitly saying so, subconsciously the loss of his family connections is clearly taking a strong toll on him before he finds Claudia. saving Claudia was an opportunist moment, of course Louis was not going to kidnap a random person and make them a vampire, his rescue of Claudia made him feel entitled to own her. i think i still disagree here because we aren't considering the motivations for saving her, regardless of whether that was through giving her vampirism or taking her to the hospital as you hypothetically compare. Louis' thought when he sees Claudia for the first time is that she is his "redemption" (1x03). whether Louis saved her or not, his only motivation was not "let me save a helpless girl" it was "let me save a helpless girl because i have to redeem myself" so Louis' first priority when it came to Claudia was actually alleviating his own guilt which he does through saving her. yes, then a family can be considered secondary.
i feel like we are kind of going in circles here so i just want to say this- it isn't always just one thing in this show, and something that i love is that the intentions don't always equate to outcomes, whether they be positive or negative. Louis can still save a girl for entirely selfish reasons and it be to him a "good thing" because it prolonged her life, Lestat can also still turn Claudia for the selfish reasons of putting Louis' happiness above Claudias quality of life. i feel like maybe you are trying to imply here that what Lestat did was a completely evil action, while negating Louis' crucial involvement and ignoring the fact that it wasn't something Lestat actually wanted to do in the first place. he had no desire to turn Claudia into a vampire after knowing what had transpired with Nicki.
im not sure i necessarily agree that Louis would be praised for saving Claudia is she managed her happy ending with Madeleine because it doesn't take away from just how awful he caused her life to be prior to meeting Madeleine. and whilst a loving relationship with Madeleine of course makes Claudia's life more bearable...she still is trapped in a child's body. she is still "reminded of it every day of her existence" (2x04), a relationship would not fix all of the deep trauma within her.
as for her aging up, i still stand by the writers choice because of the new things it allowed to be done with Claudia. her life was still (if not even more) tragic as a forever 14 year old vampire in show i feel like both actresses portrayed that horror beautifully. none of the characters in the show are identical to their book counterparts. it was never going to be the same Lestat, it is obviously not the same Louis and Claudia. due to the nature of the adaptation the show runners can pick which elements they wanted to keep and reinvent, i don't think the "sanitisation" of Claudia's turning took away from the audience understand the monstrosities that Lestat is capable of.
Sweet dreams
Iâm a firm believer in fix-it fics for those who are disappointed in canon. Itâs one of the great things about fan fiction! But Iâm finding the TVL fix-it fics painfully revealing in terms of what fans seemed to want the show to be about.
To clarify: when I think of âfix-itâ fics, I imagine stories that veer away from the canon version, as the author presumably thinks something went wrong with characterization, plot, etc. that needed to be fixed. But what I find fascinating about the fix-it fics Iâve seen is that some of them, at least, keep the same scenes, often with the same or very similar dialogue, but just replace Lestat with Armand, or Lestat with Louis, or Loustat with Loumand. So the sceance still takes place, but Louis goes to Armand for comfort. The shower apology scene is given to Louis and Armand and the lines Claudia speaks to Louis in the sceance are spoken by Armand on Claudiaâs behalf.
I donât know. It reminds me of the complaints about the focus on Rockstat in the marketing, which some folks fixed by imagining Armand on stage with Daniel in the audience, or Claudia and Armand as the rock stars.
Itâs making me think two things. First, that for some, the disappointment with The Vampire Lestat is that it focused on Lestat, the vampire. Second, that âfix-itâ means something different to me than it does to others. I donât know what Iâd call fic or fanart that replaces one character with a preferred one, while keeping the emotional beats and representations the same.
Theyâre normal about each other i promise
(Lyrics from Hozier - who we are)
psstttt...Loustat with a shared Pinterest board so they can coordinate outfits even when they aren't staying together
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hi, I'm a recent follower, I've really enjoyed your meta of the tvl episodes. I guess the fandom reaction of the last couple of episodes kinda made me see things differently. Louis has been hurt very badly in s1, s2, s3. Claudia too has bad things happen to her in s1, s2, in s3 her ghost is even worse off. Armand of course has a very tragic backstory, but that's entirely off-screen. Lestat had Magnus in s3 backstory and the murder attempt in s1.
I feel like it's all about the intent vs impact. As much as I love the show and its story, I do think Louis and Claudia get it worse than anyone else.
hi, thank you for your kind words, anon!
please don't take offense to this or take this personally, but i have gotten really exhausted of rehashing this "writers are racist" debate on my blog and feel like i have spoken about it ad nauseum. for the sake that you have come to me to ask about this i will respond but i don't feel like i want to talk about this much again.
There is so much to forgive, but you do not know how to forget. When is a monster not a monster? Oh, when you are the reason it has become so mangled.
âStart Here by Caitlyn Siehl
you seem avoidant for a girl whoâs so hungry to experience the full breadth of human connection
my best friend watched Get Out (2017) for the first time the other day, and whilst we were discussing it it caused me to reflect a lot on the mechanics of modern day virtual signalling in fandom space, especially how it pertains to a lot of people in this fandom who try to weaponise racism to critique something that they just donât like due to personal taste. (technically spoilers for for Get Out lol)
For some positivity about season 3 (cw talk about rape in this ask, specifically Claudia's and Lestat's):
I genuinely, genuinely love the fact that Claudia lied in her diary about Lestat using her rape to scare her into staying (he never threatened to rape her in the original scene either btw, I wonder why he read it as such)
It took me a second to get around to it but now I ADORE what it does for Claudia's character, specifically to reinforce just how conscious she is of her position as the least powerful person in any room containing vampires (aka her own kind) and how ruthless she is in using that fact to manipulate others. This is a woman who has learned very harsh lessons from all her parents and caretakes and the world. a mother who died in childbirth, probably owing to the very poor maternal care at the time especially for poor black women, a father who got rid of her, an aunt who beat her, a daddy lou who loved her but never saw anything but a tool towards his redemption and who didn't have it in him to stand up for her and an uncle/father lestat who projected so many of his own issues on her (the anxiety over nicky, the jealousy of her as a romantic rival when it came to Louis, the abandonment issues) that he could only see his love for her when she was gone
Her constant struggle in the show is for autonomy and self-determination and every time she escapes one cage she gets retrapped or caught in another one, right until the very end
She could have laid down and despaired or lived in denial but instead she looks her situation dead in the eye and says "the world will always be cruel to me. I will be cruel in turn"
So she uses her rape by one abuser that trapped her to manipulate another abuser that trapped her into helping her escape the third abuser that trapped her ...
I am in absolute AWE!
As lestat said, none of us had any IDEA of Claudia's strength
And i cannot help but compare it to how Lestat deals with the rape and sexual abuse he's been subject to. He's been in denial for so long, he wrote a song romanticising Magnus, he spends the entire season trying and failing to romanticise and justify Gabriella to himself and his audience of one and here is Claudia knowing and acknowledging EXACTLY what she went through, taking that pain and fashioning a knife out of it
And it makes sense to me. in her position, at the intersection of almost every marginalisation I could think of, a black, (vampirically) disabled woman, the only way she can claw back any agency is by weaponising her own (sometimes perceived, sometimes actual) frailty and she does so ruthlessly
This is NOT passing value judgment on either her or lestat but ... what a character
What a fucking incredible character
(Sorry for rambling in your ask box but i love your takes and i need to get this out ^^)
hi!! yes i adore Claudia and how the show chose to write her, as well as how each of her actresses chose to portray her. i think the thing about this show, not even just specifically Claudia, is it's reluctance to allow some of its characters to fall into that neat narrative that is always present in story telling that poor past experience can make you a better person. these vampires are stuck in their constant suffering and even their attempts to try to do "good" are often incredibly misguided (characters like Armand) or simply have terrible consequences (situations like Lestat and Nicki.) Claudia always operating on self-preservation mode is at times selfish and ruthless, but to her she feels entitled to behave in such a way considering the really poor cards she has been dealt in both her human and vampire life. the show never condemns or approves of this, but it allows her to freedom be an imperfect person.
i think i was discussing through reblogs with another user last month about the way Claudia must have conceived her Train Scene plot, and i mentioned that Claudia's doubt of Lestat's story about his turning "Magnus could be a sous-chef from Switzerland for all we know" (1x06), was perhaps the first clue that she was going to lie about Train Scene. she automatically believed that Lestat had lied about his kidnap and assault and believed that it could be something Lestat was capable of lying about because she knew herself that it was something she could be capable of. she's incredibly calculating and it was honestly a joy to see her character scheme and spiral throughout seasons one and two.
i especially love the fact that you mention Claudia being repeatedly trapped in a cage of circumstance, and i think that her child's body is the metaphor for that. "im a vicious vampire trapped in the body of a little girl and i am reminded of it every day of my existence" (2x04), every time Claudia thinks she has found a new form of happiness of security, it is quickly ripped away from her (initially thinking Bruce could be friend to her, thinking Daciana could be a friend to her, thinking the coven would keep her safe, thinking she would be with Madeleine forever), in the same every time Claudia thinks she has found a way to almost "outgrow" her body, she is forced to contend with her inability to do. (in 1x05 she goes on a killing spree, this is a big show of power and strength and vampire skill, but in spite of all of this, she "can't even make one" other vampire because she is too small) so yes that is a great analogy and i think a horror element to the show that is not mentioned much.
i did a post a while ago linking Claudia and Lestat's responses to their rapes/vampire turnings if you had not already read that because it links with the last few points you have made. something i do want to say is that i do think Lestat did always love Claudia and it was not something her only realised/felt later on. several factors strained the relationship definitely (the louclaudia emotional incest and his wariness/jealousy over it, her desire for freedom ect) but i think he always loved her. even when she reveals her plot to kill him in 1x07 there is a brief moment where he half-smiles at her because he is proud of her even when she's killing him. as he says in the finale of season three, Lestat's love can often be "grotesque" to some, but it is always there.
feel free any time to ramble in my inbox thank you for trying to spread some positivity <3
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i simply don't trust a lot of you to be claudia lovers when you cheer her on for the seance scene, because a real claudia lover would ask why she was written to hate being Black?
she was never written to hate being black that is never said anywhere. Claudia acknowledged that being black can be a bleak existence, and she is completely within her rights to say that. black people do often express how disadvantageous it is to be black, hell, even i have made comments to friends or family about how frustrating, isolating and suffocating it can be to be black sometimes. does this mean i resent being black? of course not. a real Claudia lover understands that this is the first time Claudia has ever been given to opportunity to list her grievances (being black is allowed to be one of her grievances without even mentioning she was raised in Jim Crow NOLA). perhaps it is uncomfortable for some to think maybe every black person isn't sunshine and rainbows about being black, but that doesn't mean feelings like this cannot exist within them or that they hate their blackness. it is bleak sometimes. that's a part of her life she was forced to accept. it was perhaps the line in the seance that resonated the most with me.
The writers made a point to make Claudia in that scene reject any association with Louisâs blood and align herself with Lestatâs (disregarding both season 2 canon and vamp biology), referred to Louis as a slave because of his innate biology, made that comment about his hair in front of a white person, respected said white person for lynching her because that was just him getting even, sheâd have done the same, liked said lyncher better than Louis because Louisâs pathetic and LestatâsâŚevil? Who knows. Made a point to say every single Black person in her life the show made us aware of abused her and she hated them and had no canon positive relationships with any Black people. Writers made a weird choice to use âblack lifeâ instead of âmiserable lifeâ âagonizing lifeâ or âvoid of a lifeâ. Writers made the choice to say a white person was the only good thing Claudia ever had.
And weâre not supposed to come away with the assumption that the writers were using Claudia to spew antiblack vitriol and talking points and make it look like Claudia hates being Black?
okay so the answer to a lot of the things you've brought up here can be found in two discussions ive had before and have linked below, in response to your accusations of the 'white supremacy' of the writers as well as Claudia/Madeleine point you have made. (also Claudia calling Louis nappy headed in front of white person is not that surprising seeing as she literally called Lester her slave master to his face back in season one.)
đŹ 2  đ 42  â¤ď¸ 189 ¡ Claudia's "Bleak, Black Life" (iwtv3x06) ¡ i just wanted to put out my personal opinion as a black on this line that has
đŹ 10  đ 33  â¤ď¸ 132 ¡ #đđđ #thevampirelestat And one of my favorite songs shout out to the brutal love ¡ Black people calling each other "nap
but what i want to address here is the point you've said with "made a point to say every single black person the show mentioned in her life abused her and she then and has no canon positive relationships with any black people." black people are falliable. Claudia addressing that she was neglected and abused by her father and aunt does not mean the show is being racist. Claudia grew up in Jim Crow NOLA surrounded by a black community, it isn't a stretch to say that most the people she knew at that point in her life were black, with that being said, why is it hard to believe that not a single one of the people she knew within her community could have been cruel to her? secondly, just because she is black it doesn't mean that Claudia has to have positive relationships with other black people. yes, there is a community but black people are still individuals who choose to make their own connections. why is there an assumption that every black person has to be friends, or better yet something this fandom seems to be unable to acknowledge that black people and do hurt other black people? it is a bit odd to simply expect that Claudia should have positive relationships with black people just because she is black.
and just as an aside, Claudia also lists the other people in her life who abused her, not just the black ones (e.g. Bruce, Lestat and the Parisian Coven). as well as this, Claudia has brought up the treatment she received from her father and auntie back in season 1. do you only find this writing decision racist now or did you think this in season as well? while i do see how that scene was shocking to a lot of people, i also think that simply saying it was retcon doesn't match up with Claudias history of using racialised language in the first two seasons and that just because it made people uncomfortable it doesn't mean that there was something sinister about the writing. media can be uncomfortable and confronting sometimes, give writers the space the explore that or else tv would just become diluted, spoon-feeding mush.
guys there's some bug right now with my blog where i can't see any of my activity and none of my notes are appearing so i can't see or respond to anything that isn't DMs or asks at the minute sorry. i don't know what to do.
