they/them, 27+ some posts are nsfw or flash a lot minors, do not interact with this blog. if youre under 25, dont follow me. non-Black people do not follow
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hey y'all, my best friend ghost is going through it right now. he's been a friend for 10 years and one of our biggest, most generous supporters during our own time of need. my wife & i would not be here without him & his husband. his post on bsky:
Oh fuck I sent the last ask about the jason Todd timeline in anon 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Anyway, that was me, couls you answer it with this one because I wont see it otherwise
(Im so sorry!!)
(^ this is the anon in question)
Hi yeah I can definitely help with that! Jason not dying at 15 is one of my favorite hills to die on in comics :) Before I get into the timeline properly, here are some of my other posts with details on Jason's age, they have screenshots & panels & whatnot :)
So yes! Jason didn't die at 15 and, while I don't personally subscribe to it (or I didn't before making this post), you can definitely make a case for Jason becoming Robin before 12. Please note that unless specifically stated otherwise, everything I'm telling you is post-Crisis canon (1985-2011). Cool? Cool. Let's get into it. (Cut because this got way longer than expected)
Bruce meets Jason for the first time on the anniversary of his parent's death¹. This is either June 26 or late November (I can't remember the exact date unfortunately) depending on whether you use pre- or post-Crisis continuity. I generally prefer the June 26 date, if only because according to Nightwing (1995) #1, the Graysons fell on June 27 and I find that darkly humorous, but that's the pre-Crisis date so we're going to use November instead.
Jason is then in training for six months before officially becoming Robin². This puts us in May for his Robin debut. However old Jason was when he met Bruce is how old he is here, because Jason has only ever had one birthday no matter the continuity, and that date is August 16³.
How old was that? Not certain. It depends how you treat the letter columns. In the back of Batman #413, Dennis O'Neil says that Jason is 12. There is a question to be asked about whether that means he's 12 in Batman #413 or if he's 12 in his origin story in Batman #408-409, which is what the letter was written in response to. Now, Batman #413 takes place during the school year, which most likely means that his birthday has passed since he became Robin⁴. If he was 12 in his origin, he would now be 13; if he's 12 in Batman #413, he would've been 11 when he became Robin.
However! If you go back one issue to the letter column of Batman #412, you'll find that O'Neil says that Batman #408-409 take place ~3 years ago. If we take that as canon, that means that if Jason is 12 in Batman #413, he was 9 when he met Bruce and still 9 when he became Robin. If, however, he was meant to be 12 in his origin, that means that Jason in Batman #413 is 15. Given the emphasis on Jason being "The Boy Wonder" on multiple occasions, and the fact that this is distinct from Dick, who had grown into "The Teen Wonder" as he got into his teen years, I think it's safe to conclude that if both of these bits of letter column lore are canon, Jason has to be 12 in Batman #413 and 9 in Batman #408.
Now, I take a bit of issue with the "three years" bit, because Dick later says that he left home two years ago⁵. Personally, when it comes to canon hierarchy, I take what's in the comic itself as canon over letter columns. However, this still leaves Jason at 14 in Batman #413 or 10 in Batman #408.
At this point, I turn to Batman Annual #12, which establishes that Jason is in 7th grade. 7th graders are, barring being held back or skipping a grade, 12 turning 13, and a major thing we know about Jason is that he's smart. He's really smart, he's very quick to learn, and he did well in school, all of which leads me to believe that he wouldn't have been held back, which further confirms that he was 12 in Batman #413 and thus 10 in Batman #408/when he became Robin.
Jason is mentioned to have dropped out of fifth grade⁶. Given that fifth graders are 10-11, the fact that Catherine died in February⁷, and Jason saying that she was sick for over a year, I think we can conclude that he didn't drop out of school until Catherine was dead. And, because he has to be 10 in Batman #408, we have to conclude that he is a) finished fourth grade after his mom died and b) one of the youngest kids in his grade. This makes him 12 for his entire 7th grade year, ergo he's 12 in Batman Annual #12.
Batman Annual #12 came out six months before the first part of A Death in the Family. Because the annual mentions report cards coming up, I'm guessing that this takes place in either December/January (midterm) or May/June (end of school), depending on when exactly school gets out. The principal says that the grades are better than last year's, which to me indicates that this is probably closer to the end of school with the summer dates. Jason mentions the KGBeast as well, and Batman #420 came out the same month as the annual, so we know it's after Ten Nights of the Beast.
When is Ten Nights of the Beast? Well, I went on a whole side quest trying to figure it out using sunrise times and entirely too many calculators. My best guess is March or April, but it's never really confirmed. The fact that Batman #423 has a sunrise around 6 AM also indicates that we're in the first half of the year. All this really does make me feel more confident in saying that Batman Annual #12 takes place near the end of the school year.
After a quick reread of the last couple issues leading up to A Death in the Family, I'm fairly confident in saying that there's no mention of a specific date before Jason's death. Traditionally he's said to have died on April 27, which is a clever reference to the fact that the infamous poll was in Batman #427. However, reviewing the lead-up to DitF as well as later issues, I personally believe Jason died in July.
So to summarize:
Jason is 10 years old when Bruce meets him in late November
He becomes Robin six months later, still age 10
He is 12 for most if not all of his post-Crisis run, with an implied year or so between his debut and our exit from flashbacks in Batman #412
Jason is killed in July, just one month short of turning 13
And that's it! I'm so sorry for. um. everything about this. I kinda ended up breaking down my usual timeline to keep everything post-Crisis and had to rebuild it from scratch, but hey, at least it's done now! Do I think DC has thought through any of this at all? No. Will I be changing any of my personal projects to suit this actual, fully-canon timeline? No. But now we know better and going forward, we can use this. Sorry for rambling so much, hopefully this was helpful :)
References
¹ Batman (1940) #408
² Batman (1940) #410
³ Detective Comics (1937) #790
⁴ This is because Batman #408-409 and probably Batman #410-411 are meant to be flashbacks; nothing is ever really brought up, but presumably Jason's pre-Crisis Robin run is meant to be altered by the Crisis and fit in here, with Batman #410-411 taking the place of Batman #368 and Detective Comics #535 as his first outing as Robin. Batman #401-403 also slot in here somewhere, seeing as they're post-Crisis but released before Jason's updated origin.
This does actually mean that Tim is either a lying liar who lies when it comes to his age, or he should be aging up a lot more than he is. Also. He's older than Jason. He is one month older than Jason.
Tim is 13 in his first appearance. A Lonely Place of Dying is generally accepted to be six months after DitF, but I'm not actually finding any evidence for that. Here's what I've got:
We know that Two-Face attempts to kill Batman on "the twenty-second" but not the month. We know that Two-Face has been scheming for at least four weeks. Gordon mentions the events of Batman Annual #13, which takes place August 3. Jason's death is referenced as being recent in Batman Annual #13, which would make sense with the late July date. Based on this information and looking at a 1989 calendar, I think that this actually puts ALPoD in September. More specifically, it starts on September 21 and goes for a few days. (This is also confirmed by the newspaper Tim reads about Haly's closing in the coming October, which indicates that it's not yet October seeing as the circus is still running.)
All this to say, Jason dies in late July at almost 13. Tim shows up two months later at 13. He's also only ever had one birthday, July 19, which means that he is in fact older than Jason.
Cass is still the same age as Jason, only seven months older, which makes her six months older than Tim. Meaning that Steph is the second-oldest Robin??? She's a year older than Tim, isn't she? Which makes her a year older than Jason and a couple months older than Cass??? I believe she's supposed to be a year younger than Cass & Jason but tbh I haven't read enough of her interactions with Cass to know whether her age gap with Cass or Tim should be prioritized. I can come back to that at a later date. But Cass, Tim, & Jason should all be born in the same calendar year.
Lost Days, UTRH, & Jason's Convoluted Aging
None of my old calculations are valid anymore, so I have to redo this.
Jason still comes back to life six months after his death, which in this case would mean he comes back to life in January. He's still almost 13 (12 & 11 months) in body, but he should already be 13 (13 & 5 months) chronologically.
He then spends one year in a coma, one year on the streets, and one year with the League. Assuming that's a clean twelve-month skip each time (unlikely but it's what we're all going to work with right now), the Jason that gets thrown in the Pit is chronologically 16 (& 5 months), physically almost 16, and mentally still almost 13.
His 18th birthday is right before War Games; he's 18 chronologically, 17 and 6 months physically, and 14 and 6 months mentally. This means that by UTRH, only a couple months after War Games, Jason is still 14 years old in his mind.
If you've ever wondered why Jason is Like That, it's because he is quite literally still a child. That is a young teenager. Practically a baby. He never even made it to high school.
Reposting but the cost of my prescription medications and phone bill have left me short on rent. Trying to raise 85 to pay my rent! Please share I have one day left. I need a miracle. Cat pic or tax. 0/85
I have nothing cohesive to post, take these old/unfinished things I've chipped at randomly. The Bruce and Dick one is from ages ago (you can tell), I just never used it for anything.
Oh yeah, and this dumb thing under the cut:
I think Jason secretly likes some of Harvey's music. He has fond memories of that one time Harvey kidnapped him; the songs playing in that two-tone Miata that was 'too much' were bangers. And it's no different now.
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A spoon's only objective in life is to make soup go upwards, and it knows this. That's why when you put one under a running tap it blasts the water way high. The spoon thinks there's suddenly TONS of soup to deal with and it freaks out.
Trying to raise money to get my psychiatric medications! 0/113 I know times are tough for everyone, so honestly anything helps! Thank you in advance for sharing and any help.
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15/25! Thank you for sharing. Please help if you can, I haven’t eaten in days. If y’all loved Black people like you loved our culture this would be satisfied multiple times over.
Remaking this post since the one I made a couple weeks ago has lost traction and (rightly for the time) makes it seem like a non-pending issue. I'm Nadi, a trans woman living in the South. I'm underemployed and two of my jobs wind down for the winter holidays and haven't wound back up yet. I'm going to be ~$500 short on my bills this upcoming month and need a little help making ends meet. I also have a dog that needs a vet visit and to set myself up with a new HRT provider, so the total I need might go up a little in the days to come. Even a buck helps. A bunch of my links are below.
hi im erin, 33, a lesbian. does anyone have $15 or anything for a family of 7, four disabled, 2 kids under 13, in a abusive house for food/dinner and $18 or anything for a new heater as my old one gave out nights ago please we need help to get through this cold spell, we got our power back after freezing nearly 2 nights and mom is still sick anything helps even a dollar or less. please help me give these kids a good day (school is out as most of county still powerless)
Reposting due to lost traction. I’m trying to raise money to pay my rent this month and get some groceries. I have three days left to pay it and this is my only option. I’m currently at 125/450! Please share if you can. Anything helps, thank you in advance!
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Hi y’all❤️ Made another post & it got no traction so i’m making another one. I’m brie, i’m a black trans woman who is currently between jobs, I’m asking for assistance so I can get groceries & refill my metrocard because I have a bunch of fucking interviews this week. Just asking you see this please boost this. Literally anything helps.