Empty and unlimited

“You weren’t going to shame my marriage bed and have a pleasant life ridiculing me, nor was that royal bride or Creon, who gave her to you, going to banish me, throw me from here with impunity. So if you want, call me a lioness or Scylla, who lives on Tuscan shores. For I’ve made contact with your heart at last.”

My main tags: #greek mythology, #tagamemnon, #greek gods , #Aphrodite, #Hades, #Medea, #Circe, #Greek religion, #compilation | #Scarlet Witch, #Amaranth Hawlut, #Speed, #Wiccan, #Agatha Harkness | #asks, #feminism

“It is a mistake, we mortals commit, when we picture the winged god Cupid as a cruel deity; we arm his hands with arrows, and add to them the fatal bow and the cruel torch, and delude ourselves that he was born from Venus and sprung from the loins of Vulcan - the fact is, Love is a potent force springing from the imagination, and an insinuating passion, which rises up in the human breast; […]”

- Unknown author, Octavia (1st A.D, Roman)

“The scholium on Argonautica 3,26b (216 Wendel) seems also to have mentioned a genealogy by Ibycus (fr. 324 PMGF). As the text is unfortunately badly preserved, we do not learn who the parents were there.¹⁶² It is suggested by other fragments (286 and 287 PMGF) that Ibycus probably made Aphrodite Eros’ mother. However, whether U. v. Wilamowitz’ widely accepted conjecture in which he makes Hephaestus Eros’ father (‘Ἴβυκος ‹δὲ Ἀφροδίτης καὶ Ἡφαίστου›’) {Ibycus [of Aphrodite and Hephaestus]} is correct or not, cannot be proved. In Archaic lyric poetry there is definitely already an overt tendency to mythologize Eros as an Olympian god by relating him to Aphrodite (see Plate 7).”

- Aphrodite and Eros: The Development of Erotic Mythology in Early Greek Poetry and Cult by Barbara Breitenberger

“Sleeping all alone in your [Ares’] armor. As for Aphrodite, Hephaestus got her back. She’s up there in his bed. He kicked out his second wife Charis—­ and boy is she sore. Aphrodite didn’t want to return to her previous marriage, but Eros shot her himself to make her go back as a favor to his father Hephaestus.”

Short answer: Maybe? not really, sorta kinda

Long answer: Most texts that deal with Hades and Persephone only talk about the abduction. It should go without saying that Persephone was not happy to be kidnapped and forcibly married, and every ancient account reflects that. However, there’s still the question: after Persephone settled into her new reality, did she ever develop romantic feelings towards Hades? Well, like I said before, most authors don’t care about anything beyond the abduction, so we won’t find an answer to that inquiry in the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, the Theogony, or the ancient plays. Even Claudian chose to die rather than give us an answer to this question.

In broad strokes, the ancient Hellenists wouldn’t have pictured Persephone happily in love with Hades. Death is scary, and Hades and the underworld are the physical embodiments of death. Therefore, Persephone’s fate is equal to that of the “brides of Hades”¹, her grief at being seized to the underworld is eternal

But if you’re searching for proof of Persephone loving Hades, you can find it; I’ve posted it here. And if you search cultic traditions, you’ll find plenty (and I mean plenty) of worshippers that saw Persephone as a tragic victim, but you’ll also find quite a lot of people who saw them as the perfect marriage.

My opinion? It’s probably somewhere in the middle. I think we can perceive from a lot of myths (Labors of Heracles, Orpheus and Eurydice, Psyche, the Odyssey, etc) that Persephone feels comfortable ruling the underworld and has autonomous power — a privilege that neither Hera or Amphitrite possess imo. However, I can’t see her ever forgetting how the marriage began

I recently finished reading this novel, a reimagining of Philonoe’s life, the obscure sister of Helen and Clytemnestra. It was written by accomplished artist Felicia Day, who you may know from her roles in Buffy and Supernatural, but I’m one of those weird people who’s more acquainted with Helen of Troy’s extended family than with any actor from Supernatural, so I downloaded this book purely for its premise.

1. 430-420 B.C pottery; name inscriptions (right to left): Er[os], Helen, Philonoe. 2. The cover of this book

I’ll divide this review into two sections, the accuracy to the source material (since I know so many of you are fixated on that) and the story on its own.

Cirpen - Penelope/Circe

Lovespell - Aphrodite/Circe

Cirpso - Calypso/Circe

Circylla - scylla/Circe

Beautyrite - Helen/Circe

Clycirce - Clytemnestra/Circe

Androcirce - Andromache/Circe

Casscirce - Cassandra/Circe

Easy.

1. Cirpen, marrying each other’s sons is very homoerotic, and after that they’re now living together for eternity

2. Aphrodite/Circe, varies depending on the source. They’re first linked in the Theogony where Aphrodite — as the abstract force of love and desire — is present in Circe and Odysseus’ relationship. Elsewhere, Aphrodite cursed her. Either way, they’re part of each other’s lives

3. Cassandra/Circe, my gorgeous othered girls! the fact that they were perceived so similarly is enough for me to ship them

4. Circe/Scylla, I’ve said before that my favorite version of Scylla’s “origin” is the one where she’s born a monster with Hecate as her mother, but it’d be pointless to deny that Ovid and Hyginus’ version has a certain lesbian-adjacent je ne sais quoi

5. Circe/Helen, Andromache, Clytemnestra. Free these women from Circe, haven’t they been through enough?

Besides the obvious love ≠ war and love + war = harmony? I really enjoy Plato’s Symposium’s take on them:

“We all agree that temperance is a control of pleasures and desires, while no pleasure is stronger than Love: if they are the weaker, they must be under Love's control, and he is their controller; so that Love, by controlling pleasures and desires, must be eminently temperate. And observe how in valor “not even the God of War withstands” him; for we hear, not of Love caught by Ares, but of Ares caught by Love — of Aphrodite. The captor is stronger than the caught; and as he controls what is braver than any other, he must be bravest of all.”

In the words of Lana Del Rey: yeah my boyfriend’s pretty cool, but he’s not as cool as me.

This one is less symbolical and more about lived religion, but, me being me, I have to include a female author in this. Here’s a gem:

“Sulpicia is dressed for you, great Mars, on your Calends.

Come from the sky to see her yourself, if you are wise.

Venus will overlook this. But impetuous as you are, be careful

you don’t drop your weapons in shameful amazement.”

- Sulpicia (late C1st B.C), poem 9

Translation: Mars, I dressed so nicely for your festival, you should see how hot I look! Venus will allow you a peek 😉😌

Regarding academia about them, I’ll always recommend The Origin of Aphrodite by Stephanie Lynn Budin. She explores Aphrodite’s creation in Cyprus and how her links to Hephaestus and Ares may come from “the association with gods linked to bronze and warfare” (p. 177). For less archeological stuff, I really like this analysis! (but take all of this with a grain of salt because I’m literally a rando on the internet): https://www.maverickscience.com/wp-content/uploads/Ares-and-Aphrodite.pdf

"“All that he [Homer] hath said of Venus and Mars his passion, is also manifestly composed from no other source than this science [astrology]. Indeed, it is the conjuncture of Venus and Mars that creates the poetry of Homer.”

“[Venus is] the star which in poetry enjoys a close association with Aphrodite and with the marriage ceremonial.”

“Blessed Queen of Heaven…celestial Venus, now adored at sea-girt Paphos, who at the time of the first Creation coupled the sexes in mutual love.”

I love Vanth so much because the Etruscans bravely dared to ask ‘what if there was a Fury who was nice?’

These people just don’t seem to understand what doping is. The argument they use the most is “Drugs can’t give you skating skills” which is, on the surface, true. Drugs can’t give you skating skills, but drugs give you stamina. Kamila was taking 3 heart medications, 2 of them legal but none of which were needed, and, yes, she was self-admittedly still taking them during the Olympics (search the grandfather cake story). Eteri was aiming to amp up her durability so she could train longer and perform better, and being able to train for longer periods than your peers does built up your skill set. It’s also a huge boon in a sport where the second half of the performance is notoriously difficult and gets bonus points if performed cleanly.

Not really! It seems that the “character” of Persephone was the same — daughter of Demeter, married to Hades, carried to the underworld, and connected to agriculture.

The main difference in how she was venerated in Locri in contrast to the rest of Greece was the emphasis on her marriage. Locri had a more positive? reverential? view of the Persephone-Hades union, which essentially made her a goddess of marriage. I already shared 2 articles about this:

- Sourvinou-Inwood, Christiane. “Persephone and Aphrodite at Locri: A Model for Personality Definitions in Greek Religion.” The Journal of Hellenic Studies 98 (1978): 101–21. https://doi.org/10.2307/630195.

- Mackin, Ellie. “Girls Playing Persephone (in Marriage and Death).” Mnemosyne 71, no. 2 (2018): 209–28. https://www.jstor.org/stable/26572910.

But enough of that marriage. Here’s a great one I read recently about Persephone in her role as chthonic queen:

-Life, Death, and a Lokrian Goddess: Revisiting the Nature of Persephone in the Gold Leaves of Magna Graecia https://journals.openedition.org/kernos/2388?lang=en

"With this, she [Juno] plunged to earth in fearsome rage and called Allecto, bringer of despair, from the grim Furies’ dark infernal den. Dread wars and rage, deceit and deadly crimes lie in her heart. Hate for this monster fills her father Pluto and her Stygian sisters. She takes so many forms, such savage shapes; so many snakes sprout from her death-dark head. Juno spurred her to action with these words: “Do me this service, virgin child of Night, to save my reputation from disgrace.”"

- Virgil, Aeneid 7.324-332 (trans. McGill & Wright)

I’ve been mildly obsessed with this passage since a while back when I read Hades’ Wikipedia page (yes, I get my information from Wikipedia sometimes 🫣), which cites this passage as proof of an affair between Hades and Nyx. Now, that’s wild, no? I’ve read so many papers about Hades and never saw any mentions of this supposed coupling anywhere besides his Wiki page (and the websites citing Wikipedia as their source).

So, I went down a rabbit hole. Turns out that Servius the Grammarian addressed this in his Aeneid scholia:

"‘Father’ is a title of reverence; for the Furies are daughters of Acheron and Night."

He claims that Virgil was using ‘father’ as an honorific, not describing an actual blood relationship — which lead me to search the original latin text

I’m of two minds on this. (Disclaimer, I don’t speak latin so I can’t give an informed opinion here lol) Hades was called Dis Pater by the Romans, literally Father Dis, so referring to him as Father Pluto sounds like a variation of that name, not a description — and this interpretation is supported by Servius.

However, Hades is referred to as the father of the Furies in both Statius’ Thebaid (less than a century after Virgil!), and the Orphic Hymns — with Persephone as the mother. We also get the mentions of Allecto’s “Tartarean sisters” and mother Nyx in the stanza, so are all of these descriptions honorific? Are we suppose to assume that there’s a mix of honorific and biological in the same paragraph? And how much can we trust Servius’ claims, given that he lived ~500 years after Virgil? But, ultimately, I don’t think that Virgil would’ve been so vague if he was including an uncommon, unexpected parentage in his poem.

Here I wanted to sum up what (some) experts think, but it’s so hard to find opinions about this !!! because 1) nobody cares about Hades (flop) (gag him), and 2) even less people care about this particular stanza. C. J. Mackie in ‘Vergil's Dirae, South Italy, and Etruria’ accepts this parentage without question; Joseph Cataliotti in study.com takes this even further and claims that the Aeneid portrays Nyx as Hades’ consort; and Theoi cites the Aeneid when listing the Furies as Nyx’s children, but doesn’t include it in Hades’ page.

In conclusion,

A myth by an otherwise unknown ancient author called Sostratus in his poem titled ‘Tiresias’, preserved by Eustathius:

“"First change. And Sostratus in the Tiresias, an elegiac poem, says that Tiresias was originally born female, and was raised by Chariclo. At the age of seven she was wandering in the mountains, and Apollo fell in love with her, and taught her music as payment for sexual intercourse. But after being taught the girl no longer gave herself to Apollo, and he changed her into a man, so that she would have experience of Eros.

Second change. Having been changed to a man, he acted as judge for Zeus and Hera, as has been mentioned above [in the contest over who enjoys sex more: men or women]. Having been changed back into a woman, she fell in love with Callon the Argive, by whom she had a son, who was called Strabo or "Squinter," because he was born with squinting eyes, due to the anger of Hera.

Third change. After this Tiresias laughed at the statue of Hera at Argos, and was changed into an unsightly man, and so called Pithon or "Monkey."

Fourth change. Zeus pitied her and changed her back to a woman in the bloom of youth and sent her to Troezen.

Fifth change. There a local man named Glyphius fell in love with her and assaulted her as she was bathing. But she was stronger than the young lad, and strangled him. Glyphius was the beloved of Poseidon, who turned the matter over to the Moerae [Fates] for judgment. The Moerae turned her into Tiresias [ie. back into a man], and took away the skill at prophecy.

Sixth change. But he learned this again from Chiron, and dined at the wedding of Peleus and Thetis. There a beauty contest was held between Aphrodite and the Graces, whose names were Pasithea, Cale, and Euphrosyne. He acted as judge, and judged Cale most beautiful, and Hephaistus married her. This made Aphrodite angry, and she changed him into a poor old gray-haired woman, but Cale made her extremely attractive [manuscripts: gave her a good head of hair], and led her away to Crete. There Arachnus fell in love with her, and after lying with her he boasted that he had lain with Aphrodite.

Seventh change. At this the goddess became angry and changed Arachnus into a weasel, and Tiresias into a mouse. He says this is why a mouse eats little, from having been an old woman, and has the power of prophecy, because of Tiresias. That the mouse has prophetic powers is made clear both by the way that their squeakings are a timely sign of a storm, and by the way they flee and run away from houses that are in danger of collapse."

(Eustathius 1665.45ff (on Odyssey 10.494))”