Dean Appreciation Station

I didn't want to clutter someone else's post but this was partially directed at me? I've talked about the whole "Emma vs Amy" debate quite a few times, but I'll share a few thoughts.

Amy is a present, unrepentant, fully cognizant, adult, serial murderer. She is not actually sorry about what she did in any way. She believes that slaughtering humans like cattle to feed them to her son was the morally correct action even if it wasn't the ethical action because it kept her son alive. She is not correct.

Emma is a brainwashed child who's been psychologically conditioned for a few days. She has never killed anyone and only wants to kill Dean because some women who abused her told her to.

Hunters like Sam and Dean primarily deal in punitive justice, not preventative justice—and what I mean by that is that Sam and Dean try not to kill people (with powers or without powers) who have never killed anyone.

While I think you're right to point out that a preventative justice component is in play, that is not primarily how Dean makes the decision to go after Amy, and the reason we know that is because Amy's son swears to kill Dean and Dean does nothing about it because the boy has done absolutely nothing wrong.

Dean's application of his personal code is consistent here. He kills Amy, who is a murderer who killed four people, but he does not intend to kill Emma or Amy's son—both of whom wanted to kill him—because neither has actually killed anyone and both may choose not to.

You say that Emma was going to kill Dean 100%, but you don't actually know that because we never got to see that future. You assume Amy would never have killed again, but when you add up "murderer who regrets absolutely nothing" and "child vulnerable to catching illnesses" you get "Mom who absolutely would kill again as necessary and who would feel zero remorse doing so just like the last time".

I don't personally think SPN gives us any reason to suspect that three days of psychological conditioning from a cult is too much to overcome. We have seen other characters overcome much more serious levels of psychological conditioning intended to make them killers. For example, Cas and Alex. I'm not saying Emma wasn't trying to pull the wool over Sam and Dean's eyes in the scene where Sam shot her, but I am saying that doesn't actually mean in any way that she couldn't be convinced to actually choose a different path.

Under the same litmus test with which you suggest Emma's condemnation, we'd also condemn season 2 Sam for his potential "future" crimes. We are killing monsters before they actually become those monsters... because of the dark path someone else intends for them to go down. Amy—again—is an active present unrepentant serial killer.

I think sometimes people misremember the scene where Sam kills Emma—recalling the scene as a scene where Emma lunges at Dean with the knife and Sam steps in just in time to save his life, or where Dean is unarmed and Emma has him at knife point. But that is not what happened. Emma quite literally brought a knife to a gun fight. Dean had a gun pointed at her, and if she was thinking straight at all, she would have left to avoid being killed if given the chance—especially when Sam arrived. And had she not, Sam could have shot her at that point—but Sam didn't wait to see what she'd do. He wanted her dead, because even if she ran, he didn't think they were equipped to deal with surprise attacks from Dean's Amazon child. That is the decision Sam made after a brief moment to consider, and it makes sense to me given the headspace he was in at the time and his assessment of Dean's headspace as well, but it does not make his decision consistent with his previous or future behavior regarding people who have been psychologically conditioned to kill.

i’m sorry what

did you miss when he cornered and sexualized a CHASTITY COUNSELOR because he’d seen her in porn??? you know what women often do when cornered by men and pressured to have sex? they say yes even if they want to say NO (and suzy lee initially said no and rebuffed his advances) because they’re SCARED. if dean had respect for women (which, lol, funny) he wouldn’t have done that shit in the first place because he, yknow, would’ve respected her choice to be celibate.

First of all, Suzy Lee. Yes, Dean flirts with her even though he knows she’s a chastity counselor. Can you blame a guy for trying? She’s gorgeous. But all of his original interactions with her stem from trying to figure out the case and he by no means “corners and pressures” her into having sex with him. Let’s look at some of the transcript from that episode:

SUZY: Well, I provide individual counseling. If you ever need to talk – DEAN: So everybody in the group, they dish to you? SUZY: They confide. Abstinence is – it’s really rough without support and education. Hey, you know what? I have some great books on the vow that really helped me. I live close. I’ll just go grab them. DEAN: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. With a with a kidnapper on the loose? SUZY: No, I’ll be fine. DEAN: Tell you what – why don’t I walk with you just to be safe, okay? Just give me one second. DEAN: [to Sam] Guess who’s taking the teacher home! Research.  SAM: You really think you’re gonna hit that? Dean, she’s the chastity counselor. DEAN: Yeah, I know. What about you? Any luck? SAM: You mean am I actually working? As a matter of fact, yes, I am.

So what happened there is basically: Dean is talking to Suzy and realizes that everyone in the group, aka all the potential suspects, get individual counseling with her and thus maybe she has some intel that can help the case; then he offers to walk her home for two reasons, (1) for an opportunity to try and get said intel from her, (2) there is also a legit risk that something might happen to her because people are disappearing; then he makes an innuendo to Sam about ‘going home with the teacher’, but when Sam tells him he’s got zero chance, he admits, “Yeah, I know” and then immediately refers back to the case. This exchange shows that he’s perfectly aware he probably won’t be getting lucky with Suzy and it’s not his underlying motive for his interactions with her, he’s working the job and he checks to make sure Sam is working the job too.

When he gets to her apartment, here’s their next interaction:

[DEAN approaches SUZY on the couch and notices that she is crying.] SUZY: I can’t stop thinking about my friends. I’m so scared for them. Will you pray with me, Dean? DEAN: [looking uncomfortable] Sure. [DEAN sits down next to SUZY]

So, even though praying is obviously not good foreplay and it also makes Dean uncomfortable, he agrees to pray with her anyways because she’s upset and it’ll bring her some comfort.

When she uses the restroom, he finds copies of her adult films and finally makes the connection. He calls her Carmelita to gauge her reaction and see if his assumption is correct, and this is what happens:

He’s trying to make her feel better and reassure her because she feels shitty about her past. Is it a tacky compliment to tell a porn star you’re a big fan of their work? Yeah, kinda. But he means well. And do you see how he approaches her? Slowly, only taking a few steps, and he puts his hands up in a non-threatening gesture. He remains several feet away. At no point does he get into her personal space. In fact, he’s never even propositioned her yet in this entire episode, unless you count some stilted flirting.

The next scene, when they finally DO get intimate?:

She initiates all of it! She’s flattered by his compliments, she approaches him, she starts flirting back with him, and she kisses him. He even asks her to repeat it in Spanish, which also serves to REMIND her about her porn films so she can make sure she’s okay with where things are going. And at NO point does he make a move on her or even take one step closer to her. He lets her come to him.

Second, about Dean not respecting when women say ‘no’… yes, he does. Please see the examples below:

Example 1: Dean flirts with pretty stranger, pretty stranger shoots him down, Dean is surprised, but accepts it and moves on.

Example 2: Dean and Jo are flirting with each other (not just one sided here) and right before they kiss, she tells him ‘no’ and pushes him back. And he accepts it. He doesn’t get angry, he doesn’t call her a tease, he doesn’t pressure her… he just makes a self-deprecating joke and lets it go.

Example 3: Dean flirts with a pretty stranger, pretty stranger is annoyed because guys have been hitting on her all night… and again, Dean accepts it. He doesn’t keep pushing, he doesn’t get mad, he doesn’t say anything. After that, by the way, she starts flirting with him, even though he did nothing else to encourage it.

So yes, I would argue that Dean does respect it when women say ‘no’. I give him props for always trying, because Chuck knows I’m never brave enough to be that forward, but he always accepts it when they shoot him down.

Third, this post that you referenced is implying that Dean is sexist because, for one reason, he calls women things like ‘sweetheart’, ‘bitch’, or ‘whore’.

The ‘sweetheart’ names aren’t meant to be demeaning. One of Dean’s canon personality traits is that he nicknames everything - Sam is Sammy, Castiel is Cas, Ezekiel is Zeke, his car is Baby, and he calls almost every man in the series ‘dude’, ‘buddy’, or ‘pal’ at some point, and usually repeatedly. He calls Sam ‘little brother’, he calls Cas ‘sunshine’ once. He even calls a rabbit ‘buddy’. He’s not trying to be disrespectful, he honestly just refers to everyone and everything with some kind of nickname, that’s just a part of who he is. What is he supposed to call women? What is the acceptable equivalent for ‘dude’?

And when he calls women ‘bitch’ or ‘whore’? All those women were demons or monsters. One of them is Abbadon, who just happens to be a pretty wicked demon and also a Knight of Hell. Let’s take a look at how nice she is:

And also in that post, Dean is seen repeatedly calling another woman ‘whore’. Guess what? That’s not even him calling her a name to be rude, that’s her actual title: The Whore of Babylon. 

Besides that, do you know who else he calls rude names? Everyone. One of the big jokes of the series is that he always calls Sam ‘bitch’ (and Sam always calls him ‘jerk’), he calls people ‘douchebag’, he calls angels ‘dicks with wings’, he refers to Crowley as a ‘mountain of dicks’, etc. Dean isn’t purposefully being sexist when he calls women names because he’s equal opportunity, he will literally name-call anyone and everyone if they deserve it, both men and women.

That post also shows Dean talking to Jo and telling her that hunting “ain’t gender studies”. Whoops, pretty damning sexist and condescending comment right there! Except for the fact that gif didn’t show their whole exchange:

Dean has no problem with women hunting, he just doesn’t want Jo hunting because she’s inexperienced and has idealized notions about the hunting life, and that’s exactly what he goes on to tell her.

Last, Dean groping the stripper in season 10… I assume you’re referring to this, yes? Season 10, episode 2? Where he acts like a sleazy scumbag and tells her to bend over for the money and touches her right after she says ‘no touching’?

He was a demon at that time. Of course he was a sleazy scumbag! That’s the whole point! He was absolutely not himself, which is very obvious by the fact that he later tries to kill Sam in some kind of sick cat-and-mouse game through the bunker.

To sum up: YES, Dean is respectful of women and accepts it when they they say ‘no’. Is he perfect? No. Does he goof up and make sexist comments sometimes, does he flirt incorrigibly, does he posture with that ‘macho man’ persona? Yes to all. 

But he is also a big sweetheart who tries to make women feel good about themselves, who will joke with them and commiserate with them and eat donuts with them, who is chivalrous and protective and affectionate, who has had his heart broken (another example of him accepting ‘no’ as an answer, by the way - he told the truth about his hunting life to his first love Cassie, who promptly dumped him and made him leave, which he did…and when she needed help, did he hold a grudge or ignore her or refuse? No, he immediately went to help), who puts up walls because he’s tired of getting hurt when people leave him.

But I just don’t see that as Dean’s responsibility, and I’m confused as to why so many people seem to want it to be. Why do you want him to have yet another burden placed on his shoulders? Especially if you’re in the camp that thinks he’s finally starting to free himself from the role of parental unit to Sam. Why is Jack being pushed into a place from which Sam hasn’t even extracted himself?

endless reasons to love dean winchester