DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN | Being very genuine and serious 🤝 making horrible shitposts | I will spam ur dash. | Name: PK or dftsam | Team Free Will Endgame | Season 8 Sam is not real | non-shipper or multi-shipper depending on my mood (deanbenny deancrowley deancas deanlisa deancassie deandonna deanpie deanimpala) | ✨Dean x happiness✨ | Shipper friendly and non-shipper friendly why must the girls [gn] fight | I bitch about Dabbnatural sometimes | Cannibal Cas supporter | MOC Dean supporter (kill all the human traffickers <3) | Monsterfucker!Sam supporter
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re dean not “letting” sam drive, the time i remember most is when john comes back in s1 and they’re hunting vampires together and john’s seamlessly pushed them back in the old family dynamic of doing what he says no matter what; no thinking, no input, just follow orders. sam’s angry, he’s feeling ignored and like a child with no autonomy or thought of his own. the situation has been taken completely out of his control
so dean lets him drive
he gives him a sense of control back even if it’s as minor as being behind the wheel instead of in the passenger seat and you can even say it’s this allowance that gives sam the confidence to speed up and confront john, he might not have otherwise or he might have waited until they were in an enclosed space where the fight would’ve been worse
(also sam literally drives in the second episode after dean offers in the beginning i don’t know what these people are on lmao)
Yeah it's really weird to me how fixated some people get on the driving thing... and insisting Dean doesn't "allow" Sam to drive when we see Dean offer Sam the keys or easily agree to give them up every single time Sam asks for them (ex: 1.02, 5.05, 5.12, 7.14).
It's also just that... just because Sam feels he lacks control and sometimes asks for the keys to feel more in control doesn't mean 1) he actually does lack control or 2) that Dean's the one taking control away from him. If I am taking the "driving is about control" meta and running with it... if anything, I might argue that Sam demanding to drive (or being offered to drive) often happens when Sam substitutes (or Dean offers himself as a substitute) for other things Sam can't (or feels he can't) gain control over. It is in a way an extension of the way Dean is treated as a scapegoat or a force upon whom aggression is displaced (season 1 compilation, season 4/5 thoughts).
Your point about 1.20 fits well here. Whether Dean offered Sam the keys or Sam demanded to drive, I agree that scene is about Sam feeling like he lacks control... and the control he doesn't have is over John, not Dean. (And he shouldn't be aspiring to control others at all, but purely himself).
I might further point out that what Sam does with that control he has in 1.20 is perform an extremely dangerous maneuver at high speed to cut John's truck off and force him to a stop (nearly resulting in the impala being t-boned by John's truck), which risks not only his own life but Dean's (who put his life in Sam's hands). So if we learn anything here—quite contrary to the narrative that Dean is metaphorically "stealing" control from Sam somehow by driving and Sam is now righteously taking it back—it's that when Dean hands Sam the reigns and trusts him with his life, Sam treats Dean's life carelessly and thoughtlessly, blinded by outrage. That doesn't sound to me like Dean being the bad guy controlling Sam. And 1.20-1.22 really goes to great lengths to show Dean is the person trapped in the middle trying to get his brother and father to see sense and realize the consequences of their actions for themselves and for him while they both fight for control... and Dean's taking a lot of glancing blows from both of them while he's at it. (Just like his life is put on the line by that near car accident simply by existing in the vicinity of his brother and father).
What's further interesting is that it's somewhat sensible to read that scene in 1.20 as a bit of foreshadowing for what happens in 1.22—where Sam is once again driving, and he and John are at odds, and the impala gets t-boned by a truck, and Dean is the one who ends up in a coma. Sam isn't at fault for the accident in 1.22—in fact, he's specifically stressing that he's finally come to align himself with Dean's stance that revenge isn't worth their lives. But John is not on board yet, and it is as Sam's distracted trying to placate John and explain how they can still get that revenge they both want so badly that they get hit.
do you think if benny hadn’t have stayed in purgatory sam would’ve been able to admit he was wrong about him? or is the fact that the “threat” to his and dean’s relationship is gone the only thing that lets him think it/say it?
I think Benny not just agreeing to come and help Sam but staying and holding the vampires off even though Sam treated him like shit is what makes Sam change his impression, and that makes it more difficult to separate Sam's change in perspective on Benny from Benny not coming back. I think Sam would have softened on Benny, but we know he continues to be jealous of him too because he brings Benny up as a betrayal in 8.23.
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Just an FYI for the inbox bc I'm getting more of this lately: I generally don't answer mail containing links to posts made by people saying things you think I would disagree with. I also typically don't answer mail featuring direct quotes from posts you think I would disagree with. I almost never have any idea who/what you're quoting when you do that, and often have little context to go on. I don't like the idea of responding to a thought that might be easily misinterpreted because I don't have proper context.
Stupid face Sam sometimes makes where it looks like he smelled something absolutely rancid but he's having a serious discussion so he just pretends it didn't happen while his eyes are visibly watering
Hi, it's meeee. Do you have anything about Sam's weird speech to Dean in 5x05 Fallen Idols? It just cycled through and I sat up straight in my seat when I heard Sam talk about "one of the reasons he went off with Ruby." A) He ran with Ruby before Dean was resurrected and B) Idk, it's just weird, man. It's not like I think Sam shouldn't say his feelings or the multifactorial reasons he fears weakness/the kids' table, but this one just lands weird.
Hi Shal! My entire episode tag #5.05 is basically nothing but me being mad about this. But I reblogged some of my numerous rants for you!
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Okay now it's time for an extensive breakdown of Sam's incredibly manipulative pleading at the end of 4.21 that I was making fun of yesterday.
My whole life, you take the wheel, you call the shots, and I trust you because you are my brother. Now I'm asking you, for once, trust me.
There are many lies packed into these two sentences and I want to go through them one by one.
Lie 1: Sam always does what Dean wants to do.
Sam presents his whole life as a life where he has always done what Dean wanted. Sam suggests he has never deviated from Dean's wishes.
However, on many occasions when Sam and Dean have arrived at an impasse, Sam simply went his own way, which directly contradicts his claim that he always takes Dean's lead.
1.11: Dean wants to go on a case John directed them toward, and Sam wants to go to Sacremento to search for John (who doesn't want to be found) with nothing but an area code. He has Dean pull the car over, then gets out and leaves. Sam and Dean later talk on the phone and apologize to each other, but with the understanding they'll both go their own way. Sam gets worried when Dean doesn't respond to his calls (because he's been kidnapped) and abandons his plan to take a bus to California of his own accord.
1.12: Sam tricks Dean into seeing a faith healer by saying they're going to see "A specialist".
1.20: Sam starts a screaming match with John over him telling them to take the next exit on the highway, while Dean complains about them both being insufferable and always getting into petty fights.
2.10: Dean begs that they just lay low for a while and take a break and think (after he reveals John's last words). Sam runs off.
3.05: Dean shoots down Sam's plan to threaten a crossroad's demon (with The Colt) into breaking Dean's contract. Sam sneaks out at night to summon a crossroad's demon anyway and threaten her, and then kills her when she doesn't do what he wants.
3.09: Sam stops Dean from killing Ruby.
3.10: Sam steals a hair off Dean's head so he can go into Dean's dreams with him and insists he is going when Dean objects that he doesn't want Sam in his mind.
3.11: Sam kills Dean at one point on accident when Dean tries to end his reign of terror with the owner of The Mystery Spot.
3.15: Sam wants to stay in town and find Doc Benton so he can use his alchemy to make Dean and himself immortal. Dean wants to go and find Bela, who has The Colt. They part ways, with Sam staying and Dean going to search for Bela alone.
3.16: Right after Dean explicitly states that he does not want Ruby to be summoned in a last ditch play to save his life, Sam summons her behind Dean's back.
4.01: Sam wants to kill the demons that threatened Dean in the diner, and Dean doesn't. Sam sneaks off at night to go back to the diner to kill them on his own, but the angels have beaten him to it.
4.07: After implying that Sam using his powers against Samhain is a joint decision and he wants Dean's feedback, when Dean objects, Sam runs off to face Samhain alone anyway, leaving Dean with several still-trapped teenagers he can't abandon to keep him from following to help.
4.09 (4.01-4.04; 4.12-4.22): We learn that while Dean was dead, Sam directly went against what Sam in 4.04 describes as "Practically [Dean's] dying wish" (4.04) by working with Ruby to hone his powers to take revenge on Lilith. He continues to work with her after Dean is brought back to life until 4.04, then picks the habit back up at the end of 4.12. In 4.14, he says that he is intentionally going behind Dean's back because Dean is too weak to be of use and is holding him back.
4.15: Dean says he can't stop Sam from having secrets, but asks Sam to please not treat him like an idiot (i.e., keep telling lies), when it's obvious that Sam is lying to him about what happened with Alastair in the graveyard. Sam very much continues to lie instead of just insisting upon his privacy.
4.18: Sam and Dean fight about Sam's lies and then because Sam wants to stay in town and face Lilith, while Dean wants to leave to escape Chuck's writing. Sam refuses to budge and the brothers separate until the end of the episode.
4.19: Sam wants to turn Adam into a hunter and Dean hates the idea. Sam first starts teaching Adam about hunting behind Dean's back, then in front of him while Dean watches on, sickened.
In the third hading, I note incidents where Sam and Dean had a dispute and Dean conceded to Sam's views.
Lie 2: Sam follows Dean's lead because Dean is his brother and for no other reason. It's blind faith.
Sam wants wants Dean to set aside his moral principles and his skepticism and place blind faith in Sam for no other reason than that Sam is his brother, and he frames this request as a show of mutual solidarity. He's placed blind faith in Dean, so why can't Dean do the same for him?
Second, while absolutely—there have been points up to 4.21 where Sam did not do things because Dean didn't want to do them, or where Sam did things he didn't really want to do because Dean wanted to do them... it's very shady to suggest he only ever concedes purely because Dean is his brother and he has blind faith in him.
Thinking up incidents where Sam concedes to Dean's wishes on something:
1.02: Sam objects to Dean wanting to protect Haley and her brother because they'll be dead weight in the woods, while Dean wants to protect them.
1.03: Dean insists on going on the case instead of sitting around angst-ing about John and how the leads on him have dried up, and Sam concedes.
1.10: Sam wants to call the FBI on John to find him while Dean wants to follow the coordinates John just sent them to see if he's there. Sam ends up going along with Dean then spends the whole episode taking his anger about John's absence out on Dean who had no control over it.
1.21: Sam does not rush into a burning building and die trying to reach Azazel because Dean holds him back.
1.22: 1) Sam wants to sit in a motel waiting for an unknown number of demons to arrive with three bullets left in The Colt and Dean insists they go to Bobby's to learn about demons instead. 2) Dean insists on rescuing John over revenge 3) Dean brings The Colt to save John behind Sam's back, and then ends up using a bullet to save Sam's life.
2.04: Dean thinks he's found a case (he has) and Sam thinks he's just making things up. Sam agrees to go along with it even though he's skeptical until the fact that it is a genuine case is proved to him.
2.12: Sam doesn't like Dean trying to work with Ronald to stop the shifter but they don't really have a choice.
2.19: Sam doesn't want to help people in prison and Dean does, and Sam concedes and goes with the crazy plan to get arrested and go to prison to stop the haunting.
3.01: Sam wants to take Dean to another faith healer to try and get him out of his deal and Dean refuses to go.
3.12: Sam wants to sacrifice Nancy and Dean argues against this and offers an alternative plan where no one gets sacrificed, which Sam ends up going with.
3.13: Sam agrees to go on "Their Grand Canyon" hunt as one of Dean's dying wishes and gets mad when it goes sour because of The Ghostfacers.
3.15: Sam wants to turn them into Frankenstein's monsters to save Dean from his deal and Dean says he'd rather die.
3.16: This one is tricky, because Sam initially goes behind Dean's back by summoning Ruby to save Dean specifically against Dean's dying wishes, but then after he gets caught and Dean gets Ruby's knife, Sam concedes to using Dean's plan where they try to sneak up on Lilith and kill her with Ruby's knife. Dean's reasoning is that he wants to end the cycle of them saving each other with demon deals that only turn sour.
I think the pattern shows that contrary to fanon, Sam is not some poor helpless victorian maiden being swept along by the tides of the immutable sea. In most cases, it's that he realizes he thinks Dean is right about something at the end of the day, even if he doesn't like it. Not because Dean is his brother, but because Dean won him over with a well-reasoned argument, Sam realized he was putting his desires over right and wrong, or Sam didn't (at that time) want to disrespect Dean's wishes concerning Dean's own body and life.
NOTE: You might notice season 4 is "missing". This is because when I look at all of the season 4 episodes, the closest thing I can remember related to Sam just agreeing to do whatever Dean wants is him deciding to stop using his powers in 4.04, except that Sam makes it very clear at the end of the episode that he's quitting by his own choice and Dean's wishes have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Lie 3: Dean never does what Sam wants to do, and he never trusts him.
Not only does the supposition that Dean has always taken the lead Sam's "whole life" imply that Dean never concedes to Sam's view, but also when Sam requests Dean's trust "for once"—as if, not one single time in his entire life, has Dean ever taken Sam's lead or put trust in him. My mama used to say "exaggerators are just lie makers in disguise", and this is some wild lie-making in disguise.
1.06: They go back hundreds of miles to check in on Sam's friend who Sam believes has been framed for murder, even though Dean thinks it's kind of wild for Sam to believe his friend didn't do something the police have clear evidence he did.
1.09: Dean goes with Sam to Lawrence after Sam has a vision about someone dying in their whole house. The idea of going back to Lawrence is extremely upsetting to Dean, but he realizes Sam is right and they have to investigate.
1.12: 1) Sam tricks Dean into seeing a faith healer which upsets Dean, but even so, Dean does what Sam wants, goes into the tent, sits where Sam wants him to sit, and goes up on stage to be healed at Sam's request. 2) Sam says they cannot kill whoever is controlling the reaper because they're human. Dean respects Sam's moral principles by doing what he wants to do.
1.14: 1) They go on this case because Sam has a vision and Dean puts his trust in Sam's vision. 2) Sam insists they can't kill Max because he's human, and Dean respects Sam's moral principles by doing what he wants to do.
2.04: Dean goes with Sam to Mary's grave even though he doesn't want to be in Lawrence or to be anywhere near Mary's grave.
2.05: Sam orders Dean to stay away from Ansem because he's vulnerable and Dean easily agrees, going a long distance away to observe from afar with a rifle.
2.09: 1) Sam has a vision that Dean is going to kill someone. Dean is skeptical, but agrees to go along with Sam anyway. 2) Dean doesn't kill the dude infected with croatoan virus partly because of Sam's pleading that it would be wrong, and Dean finding he agrees. Sam is right.
2.04, 2.09, and 2.10: Dean trusts Sam with insights into his emotional state/why he wants to die after Sam asks him to open up about how he's feeling.
2.12: Dean thinks they should have told Ronald about the shapeshifters, but concedes to Sam's perspective.
2.22: Dean begs Sam to rest for a while instead of immediately getting back on the trail after Azazel, not wanting to lose him again, but Sam insists they go, and Dean concedes.
3.07: Dean wants to go face Gordon alone. Sam breaks down in tears and begs Dean to just be his brother again and stop doing reckless things. Dean instantly softens and agrees to lay low.
3.10: Dean doesn't really want Sam in his head invading his privacy but doesn't stop Sam from joining him in his dreams.
3.11: Dean lives over 100 Tuesdays of Sam bossing him around in various ways, including repeatedly insisting they can't leave the motel and he is not allowed to eat breakfast or go anywhere by himself. Dean puts his trust in Sam even though each time he has no clue what's going on and often has little to no context.
4.04: Sam insists they tell Jack Montgomery that he's going through a metamorphosis so that he can try and stop himself from eating people, and Dean agrees.
4.06: Sam spends the whole episode telling Dean what to do and telling him he needs to go places he's scared to go.
4.09: When Alastair breaks into the church, Ruby tells Sam he needs to use his powers to crush Alastair. Dean starts to protest, but concedes after Ruby says they'll all die otherwise.
4.10 #1: Sam enacts a plan that puts Dean and Ruby at extreme risk (Dean with the angels who have threatened to throw him back in hell, Ruby with Alastair). Both put their trust in Sam and his plan.
4.10 and 4.11: Dean opens up to Sam about his trauma from Hell.
4.19: Though he argues with Sam vehemently multiple times about what he's doing, Dean never actually stops Sam from teaching Adam to be a hunter.
Dean trusts Sam multiple times, and follows his lead on several occasions (even a few times with extreme moral reservations, such as 4.09 and 4.19).
I've also pointed out before that Sam picks most of their season 1 and season 2 cases, contrary to the popular fanon claim that Dean is always dragging Sam everywhere to hunt when he doesn't want to. In season 3, Sam leads them to hunts in 4 different episodes (3.04, 3.05, 3.11, 3.15). Dean finds two (3.02, 3.13). Who picked the rest of their season 3 hunts is either not stated, starts with them being contacted by a friend which leads them to investigate (3.01, 3.03, 3.10, 3.14), or is just them getting into a situation against their will (3.12). 5 cases are Sam's idea in season 4, and two are Dean's. The remainder are unknown, mytharc episodes, or kidnappings.
Lie 4: Sam is just asking to be seen as an equal, and Lie 5: Sam trusts Dean.
Sam's most overarching manipulation here is this idea that he just wants equality. He's showed consistent trust and blind faith in Dean and he deserves the same. He's been Dean's loyal follower going wherever Dean wants him to go, and he wants to be treated as an equal now who receives trust equal to the trust he alleges he places in Dean. However, he plainly shows the entire season that he does not want equality. He wants Dean to be beneath him. We see this just a little before this bit of the conversation, when Sam says Dean can't do anything—that he isn't strong enough and only Sam can do this. Sam shows almost the entire season that he doesn't respect Dean as an equal by lying to him over and over about what he's up to, going behind his back, refusing to believe that Dean can stop the apocalypse as the angels have said. He makes it clear in 4.14 that he is keeping his actions a secret because Dean is too weak and pathetic to be of use and is holding him back. We confirm this following episodes (4.16, 4.17, 4.18, 4.21) where Sam explicitly says Dean cannot do what needs to be done and Sam has to take over. Dean is not capable. Sam has no faith or trust in Dean at all.
Everything here is also highly relevant to Sam's claims in 5.05 that Dean is always controlling their direction, which caused him to want to get away (from a dead man) to work with Ruby.