DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN | Being very genuine and serious š¤ making horrible shitposts | I will spam ur dash. | Name: PK or dftsam | Team Free Will Endgame | Season 8 Sam is not real | non-shipper or multi-shipper depending on my mood (deanbenny deancrowley deancas deanlisa deancassie deandonna deanpie deanimpala) | āØDean x happiness⨠| Shipper friendly and non-shipper friendly why must the girls [gn] fight | I bitch about Dabbnatural sometimes | Cannibal Cas supporter | MOC Dean supporter (kill all the human traffickers <3) | Monsterfucker!Sam supporter
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Ok, Have you in real life ever seen a bathroom that had its light switch Outside of the bathroom. Not like one of those fancy giant bathrooms where the toilet is in its own little room, but a normal sized bathroom where you could be in there doing your thing and someone Outside could just turn the light off on you?
This is so normal to me
Yeah but it's weird
Maybe? normal though.
Maybe? weird though.
No but I'm pro this being a thing
no and what the fuck why would that be a thing
Other
Button.
Voting ended on3h
In Real life. not in a videogame or movie because I've Only seen it in videogames and a friend has spotted it in a movie.
Do you think reading Deanās siren sexually can mistake his duty toward Sam for desire, when Famine suggests Dean isnāt even well enough after Hell to experience wanting that way? Do Deanās actual experiences get retooled to fit preexisting fanon psychology and motifs rather than being accepted on their own terms?
I don't think the siren is about duty toward Sam or desire. It's about trust and esteem and how the brothers relationship has changed, and how Dean can feel Sam's disdain for him even though Sam refuses to say it out loud (until the end of the episode when the siren's interference forces him to).
It could never be about duty toward Sam, because for Dean, this isn't a season centered around Sam being the chosen one and Dean needing to "support" him. It is a season centered around Sam thinking he is the chosen one, and becoming increasingly resentful of the idea that Dean is being "cast" as the chosen one instead of him... While both of them are actually just being used.
It is a season about Dean being extremely wary of the angels telling him he has some grand purpose as "the righteous man" (except they refuse to tell him what that purpose is) and waiting for the other shoe to drop, increasingly feeling isolated and alone and kept in the dark not just by the angels but by his own brother when the number one thing Dean needs is somebody he can count on to have his back. Sam increasingly withdraws out of resentment and an "I'm better than you" mentality while pretending to himself that everything he is doing is actually about protecting Dean and saving the world, when it's more about his own personal need to prove he isn't a failure or a monster and that strength at any cost is merely the ends justifying the means and is not a lustfulness for power coming from a person who has felt knocked down by life too many times in a row and desperately needs to flex on everybody around him because he thinks it will make him stop hurting.
What happens with Famine in season 5 is then not even just about hell. It's about a culmination of everything that happened in season 4. It is about feelings of personal failure in part as well as personal loss (bodies of friends piling up, destruction helplessly in your wake), but it is absolutely overwhelmingly about Dean's faith and trust being broken by a whole season of people (including his brother) lying to him and attempting to manipulate him and blaming him for everything they can. It's about God not caring about you, fathers not caring about you, brothers not caring about you, mothers not caring about you. It's about Dean being the true vessel of Michael and Sam being the true vessel of Lucifer and how they are fated to kill each other and everyone says they will bring on the apocalypse whether they like it or not, and the brother who's fated to do this with you is someone you believe you cannot depend on. It's about a weight around your neck dragging you down, a fate looming over you that everyone says you will never escape, and feeling like the person you once depended on the most (your brother) is a selfish, weak-willed asshole who doesn't give a damn about anyone except himself and never will, and everything he says and does continuously seems to prove you right on that. So if family is where hope and faith comes from then you don't have any.
and i am STILL asking this. likeā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦ imagine the john we see after this isn't him at all but him possessed, either by demon or angel, to carry out the various Agendas of heaven and hell necessary to bring on the apocalypse !!!! bc the way dean and sam were raised isolated and on the run and trained to be soldiers absolutely was what both heaven and hell wanted, hoping it would prime them to easily surrender as vessels.
every night before i go to sleep i douse myself in a flame retardant coating which makes me so slick and slippery i am easily able to squeeze through fireballs the way a dolphin at sea world jumps through rings
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As a deangirl, it's just... you can always tell by the moments most wincest shippers coming onto your posts with some ship war nonsense insist on emphasizing to prove how much "better" their ship is... that they don't give a single fuck about Dean. It's just that they are uncomfortable when Sam isn't the center of attention, and think he should be entitled to be treated like the specialist boy in the whole wide world while treating everyone else around him like shit. They are obsessed with his worst qualties and think other people should like it? Like that's fine if that's your thing, but I think you do have to realize it's probably not a deangirl's thing. I can't imagine deangirls who do ship wincest are into that either and it must be alienating.
Like idk I feel like if you genuinely want to "prove" to deangirls (who by and large think wincest sucks donkey balls) that Sam's "superior" as a ship option, you could try a little harder than "After breaking Dean's trust for a whole season, Sam essentially held a knife at his own wrist demanding Dean tell him the friends who Dean trusted more than Sam meant nothing to him or else he would kill himself." Is that really the argument you want to go with? You don't want to tailor it at all? Well then maybe just leave us alone and go play with like-minded individuals. We don't like the same things that you do.
Yes, please do useāas a winning example of Sam and Dean's profound love for one anotherāthe time Sam said he was going to commit suicide over Dean daring to have friends besides him, creating a situation where Dean had to tell him he was the specialist princess in the whole wide world or else.
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Dean's psychological control over Sam stems from their upbringing. It's not Dean's fault that he was parentified but they're adults now and Dean needs to curb that shit.
I really really really autistically love vintage fashion, I just knew I had to do a little something inspired by some of the Sears catalogue spreads from a few fashion books I own (Iām aware that at the time these would have been in colour but the scans in the books are in black and white and I think the monochrome looks cooler anyway) ā Castiel is first up but Iāll be doing one for Dean and Sam as well!
One reason I will never let go of my bitterness at the fandom over season 14/15 is that a very common take right after Mary died was also:
Why can't Dean just realize his mom was stupid and her death was her fault and therefore she does not matter and he should stop being sad and angry about it?
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SPN fandom: Well Mary wouldn't give Jack space to sort through his feelings. This entitled him to murder her in a rage. She should have just let him sort through his big feelings alone. Why couldn't she do that?
SPN fandom: Dean needing time and space to deal with his grief and anger alone instead of forgiving Cas on Cas's timeline is an unspeakable cruelty.
Probably a very hot take and I may not be explaining my thoughts perfectly here but. Dean and Sam noticing that Jack was acting off and having concerns about how much soul he had left is NOT actually fully comparable to Cas having actually SEEN Jack DO something concerning, especially when that action was killing a living creature without remorse. Yes theyāre all responsible for not being more active in looking into it, for seemingly not telling Mary about Jack, for not benching Jack even. Thereās a lot that they all couldāve done better I think. But Cas still simply had more information. And Iām not saying that Cas deserved to be fully blamed or be the target of all of Deanās anger because of this! Or that Dean didnāt need to apologize at all for how he subsequently handled it. But still imo the anger itself was reasonable and I just wouldāve liked to have seen someone, possibly Cas, actually listen to Dean and validate his emotions.
But they DID bench Jack. Dean specifically pushed for that. They all knew Jack burned off a part of his soul, and they were all worried about how much was left and Jack potentially displaying erratic behavior. They discuss this concern as a team. Dean wasn't hiding that he was worried about Jack. Cas wasn't hiding that he was worried about Jack either (at first). But when Cas learns particularly revealing information about Jack's mental state, he chooses to hide it, while being worried enough about what he saw to try and "handle" it on his own without telling anybody.
14.15 Peace of Mind
Cas and Dean have a long conversation at the beginning of 14.15, where Cas quite specifically asks Dean to take care of Jack and try to figure out if he has some soul left and if he's okay.
Dean: How's the kid?
Castiel: Well, he says he's good, but... What about Sam? He says he's good.
Dean: I think they're both full of crap.
Perfectly honest. Dean doesn't think Jack is fine, and he tells Cas this. The question is, how not fine is Jack? Is he just feeling down, or is he dangerous? A few seconds after Sam comes in demanding to go on a case:
Castiel: Maybe I should go with [Sam]. And you can stay with Jack.
Dean: Why?
Castiel: You were right. Jack is struggling. And I've tried, but --
Dean: Why do you think he'll talk to me?
Castiel: Well, because he looks up to you. And his soul -- I mean, you've seen this before.
Dean: No, no. No. See, I was -- I was not great with Sam, you know, when he was, uh. But Jack's soul isn't completely gone. At least I don't think so.
Castiel: W-We just don't know how much is left.
Dean: Well, how am I supposed to figure that out?
Castiel: I don't know! Just talk to him. Get him to open up.
Dean doesn't think Jack's soul is completely gone. He thinks Jack is a little off. He's clearly very worried. But he can't puzzle it out (see: angel food cake, devil's food cake). Dean takes Jack to Donatello for an assessment, and based on his discussion with Jack, Donatello tells Dean he doesn't think Jack is soulless:
Dean: So, what's the verdict? Does he have a soul?
Donatello: I suppose the first question we must ask ourselves is, what is a soul?
Dean: Donny.
Donatello: What? I'm sorry. Um, I'd keep an eye on him, but I think if he seems okay, he probably is.
Dean: So he's not like you?
Donatello: Oh, no. I'm a Prophet of the Lord, but he -- [ Sighs ] Jack's probably the most powerful being in the universe. I mean, really, who knows what's going on inside his head?
Dean: Thanks.
We know Dean and Cas have a discussion on the phone at some point, because when Sam and Cas come back, Dean reveals he knows about Sam's cardigan. Dean doesn't report Donatello's findings onscreen, but Cas was the one who asked Dean to check on Jack to begin with, so I think we can presume they talked. We know from the following episode that Dean also reported what Donatello said to Sam. And what did Donatello tell Dean? That he doesn't think Jack is like him (soulless). (Iāll come back to Donatelloās ābut we canāt be totally sureā later). At the end of this episode, Cas walks in on Jack killing the snake. This is when Cas makes a conscious decision to abandon teamwork and communication and keep that information a secret. He leaves, claiming he needs to "stretch his legs".
14.16 Don't Go In The Woods
This episode seems to take place at least a week after 14.15, because it opens with dialogue about Sam having taken a break from hunting after 14.15 and ready to get back in te field, and Cas having left with the excuse that he felt cooped up and they've all been in the bunker "A few weeks". Meaning, Cas has had at least a week to tell anyone about the snake, and hasn't done it. Dean is open with Sam about not wanting to put Jack in the field. He wants to wait a little longer to be sure Jack is actually okay.
DEAN: Uh... I don't want Jack on this.
SAM: I thought you said Donatello gave him the all clear?
DEAN: Yeah, he did. And I'm -- I'm sure he's good. But... Jack's got his mojo back. His powers have gotten us in trouble in the past -- the security guard. So I just want to make sure that, you know, he's right before we put him back out there.
SAM: Yeah. Yeah.
While Sam and Dean are gone, Jack almost kills someone. He does not tell Sam and Dean this. At the end of the episode, Sam and Dean ask Jack together to not use his powers for now, saying they want to make sure he's "comfortable with them" again. While they don't directly mention his questionable mental state, I think it's obvious to everyone in the room.
14.17 Game Night
This episode seems to take place a few weeks after Peace of Mind. I think it's clear in 14.17 that Mary does know they're all a little worried about Jack still, because she asks how he's doing, and he complains about everyone checking on him lately.
MARY: How about you? Feeling better?
JACK: Everybody keeps asking me that.
MARY: We're family. It's our job.
JACK: Well, it's annoying.
MARY: Jack⦠if you ever want to talk or...vent...
JACK: You're here. I know.
Again in the car with Dean, it's made pretty clear Mary understands her boys are stressed and worried.
DEAN: What the hell? Sammy sounds stressed.
MARY: It's not just Sam. It's Jack⦠it's you. I just wish there was something that I c--
DEAN: Hey. You're here, okay? You're here.
What would Sam and Dean be stressed and worried about at this point in the season, if not Jack?
Meanwhile, Anael directly calls out Cas hiding the truth from the Winchesters.
CASTIEL: Jack killed Michael. But to do so, he-- he used magic that consumed his soul. Not all of it, I hope, but we just don't know how much Jack has left. And I've been looking through all the lore, and it all says the same thing.
ANAEL: Only God can restore a soul. And that's why you need him.
CASTIEL: Right.
So. Cas doesn't think Jack is soulless either. Right? Hm. Or maybe he's not being honest with Anael. Or himself. Anael clearly thinks Cas is hiding something, because she says:
ANAEL: The Winchesters-- they don't know you're here, do they?
CASTIEL: Why do you say that?
ANAEL: Oh, I don't know, just a general reek of ill-conceived lone-wolf desperation.
Then in a later scene, Anael confronts him directly for lying. Jack's soul isn't just maybe gone. Cas believes it is gone.
ANAEL: Skip it. Skip the whole judgmental crap designed to play at my insecurities, and I will skip my inevitable witty reply about the real reason you're doing all this.
CASTIEL: What do you mean the real reason? I'm doing this for Jack.
ANAEL: No, you're not. You're doing this because you're afraid. Because in your mind, it'd be easier to call God than to tell Sam and Dean Winchester the truth.
CASTIEL: The truth?
ANAEL: Jack's soul is gone, Castiel. And there's nothing you can do about it.
Cas acknowledges that she's right when he finally decides to come clean and tell Sam and Dean what he knows:
ANAEL: So, what are you gonna do now?
CASTIEL: Go home. Go home and tell Sam and Dean the truth.
Crucially, an emergency is what pushes Jack back into the field. It isn't carelessness. It's need. Sam is dying from a terrible headwound inflicted by Nick, and Nick is going to resurrect Lucifer imminently. Mary and Jack are at the bunker, and they need to get to Nick, Sam, and Dean immediately.
Mary also appears to know about the "no powers" rule, because Jack asks her permission to use his powers when he tells her he can sense Nick's location:
MARY: Where? Where is [Nick]?
JACK: I think I know-- I think I-I can get us to him. But I need to use my powers.
MARY: Do it.
As soon as Mary and Jack arrive at Nick's location, Jack kills Nick in such a violent way that Mary immediately knows something's wrong with him, and so does Jack. Just like Cas has been hiding the truth from his family for several episodes, Jack wants to do the same. Keeping secrets from your loved ones to avoid "worrying" them is what Cas has modeled to him due to Cas's own personal hangups, which are referenced in this very episode by Anael. Mary doesn't support Castiel's way. She tells Jack they need to tell Sam and Deanāso they can work through it as a family.
MARY: It's not. You're not. You⦠It's not your fault, but the Jack I know would never have done that. You -- You're⦠Something's wrong.
JACK: No, I'm not.Ā You'reĀ wrong.
MARY: Sweetheart. You know I'm not.
JACK: You know, Sam and Dean, they were grateful.
MARY: If Sam and Dean saw what you did, they would be as worried as I am.
JACK: Are you gonna tell them?
MARY: You need help, we'll help you. We're your family.
JACK: You can't.
MARY: We care about you, Jack.
Jack kills her.
14.18 Absence
The episode opens with Dean and Sam coming back to the bunker, surprised that Jack and Mary aren't back yet as they should have flown back a long time ago. They start making calls. Then Cas's phone call coming clean after weeks (after finally being confronted by Anael) comes in. And the first thing he wants to know is whether Jack was left alone with Mary.
Dean: I don't, uh -- Kid said he took care of him. So, right now, we're just trying to find Jack and Mom.
Castiel: Are they together?
Dean: Yeah.
Castiel: A-Alone?
Dean: Y-Yeah. W-Why do you -- Yes, Cas, they were together, alone.
Sam: What's he saying?
Dean: I don't... Cas?
Dean was worried about Jack. It's why he pushed for the no powers rule. But I think this pretty well indicated here that Dean's concerns did not include "leaving anyone alone with Jack is a bad idea". Only Cas's concerns reached that level. And he didn't tell anyone that or the information that lead him to that conclusion. Because he wasn't willing to admit it to himself.
Dean:If you have something to tell us, now's the time.
Castiel: I saw Jack. He -- He -- He did something when I got home with Sam. I went to check on him, and Felix was sick.
Dean: Felix? You mean the snake?
Castiel: Yes. Jack used his powers. He killed the snake. I think Jack considered it a mercy. I-I was gonna tell you.
"I was gonna tell you"... except he wasn't going to tell Dean. It's been weeks. He only decided to tell Dean after his lead on God fizzled out, and Anael directly confronted him for misleading his friends.
Dean is so mad at Cas for lying (yet again) that he hangs up on him. Againāthis anger doesn't just happen after Mary dies. It's already there. We see it here. We've seen it before. They have been having discussions like this for years.
Dean: ...but you just wanted to wait until we were already freaked out.
Castiel: I'm sorry. I don't think Jack is well, Dean. Dean? (Dean suddenly hangs up on Castiel)
Sam: What?
Dean: He said that Jack went all Kevorkian on his snake.
Sam:Why?
Dean: Don't know. Who cares. It's a snake. Right now, we've got to find them.
Dean tries to ignore the information and hope Mary and Jack are okay and they'll find them safe. If they knew this information weeks ago when Cas knew, and all communicated together, they may have made different choices. Cas also would have been there when Nick showed up, instead of out in the field on his own, and they may not have ever needed to push Jack into the field for help during an emergency. Cas's intentional and chosen absence and miscommunication permeate the events that take place in Game Night.
We can easily argue that Sam and Dean and Mary also didn't want Jack to be soulless, so they pushed their worry and hoped. But they did take precautions (trying to keep Jack out of the field, until there was an emergency) based on what all of them knew and communicated with each other. They kept up a solid line of communication with one another about what they actually saw. They allowed each other to have the same relevant information. Cas withheld information that only he knew because he did not want to work as a team. He wanted to do it all on his own. So he wasn't honest with anyone else for weeks.
When Sam claims in 14.18 that he and Dean also knew, he is literally saying Jack was bad from the beginning and they should have known all along that he would one day kill one of them, which is the completely wrong lesson to take away from any of this?
Sam: Dean, it wasn't just Cas. It wasn't. We knew Jack was dangerous. We always knew. Long before he killed Michael. You more than anyone. I mean, from the very beginning, you knew. But, you know, we fell for him 'cause he had a good heart and a good soul. Then he didn't. And that's on me, too, by the way. I mean, I'm the one who made the call to bring him back. He didn't ask for that. I decided for him. And you warned me.
Dean: No, you didn't know, okay? We didn't know.
Sam: Exactly. We didn't know. But -- He had become our family. You know, after Maggie and the other Hunters died I just left. Just dumped Jack on Cas and left. I knew. I mean, I knew something was gonna I just didn't know it'd be this.
Nowhere here does Sam say he sensed Jack was soulless. He says here that Jack was always bad and they never should have trusted him because he was always going to burn them from the moment he was born.
That said, I think there's an argument to be made that Dean may or may not have withheld Donatello's further statements from the group.
Dean: I did it, too. When I talked to Donatello about Jack, he said he was good as far as he could tell. But then he talked about how powerful Jack was and that he could never really be sure. And it was a warning. I just couldn't see it.
Dean says that he couldn't see the significance in Donatello saying maybe they couldn't be sure, because he didn't want it to be true. He wanted their kid to be okay. But he also didn't turn around and get so worried that he ran off on his own to try and solve it himself because he actually knew it was a big deal deep down, and then freaked out when he learned someone was left alone with Jack. He communicated. He reacted by pushing for the "no powers" rule and clearly communicating with their family that he did not feel comfortable with Jack being in the field even if Donatello believed he was good.
At the end of the day isn't about blame. It's about a very clearly and painstakingly presented thread running through Cas's life: Choosing on purpose not to communicate and to instead go lone wolf as Anael put it. Choosing to hide from his family so he can do it alone. It isn't just denial and fear. It is an explicitly anti-teamwork mentality that Cas thinks protects his family, but actually puts them at more risk because he does not share, and he his lone wolfing takes him away from them, leaving them ultimately more vulnerable even as he thinks he's protecting them. And Jack learned the behavior Cas modeled. Jack believed in Cas's Lone Wolf Mentality On Handling Problems. So when Mary suggested working through this as a team instead of letting Jack handle it on his own, Jack freaked out and then he killed her because he didnāt want Sam and Dean to learn scary information. I am not saying that makes all of this Cas's fault, but I am saying the weight of Cas's lone wolf mentality and secret keeping has very clearly laid out consequences in the narrative from 14.15-14.18. Why would I not expect that to be addressed further when 14.17 explicitly presents Jack and Cas's secrets as mirrors and Dean is explicitly shown being angry about Cas hiding something from them (again)? Why would I not expect that to be a part of Dean's anger and the divorce arc, and it's "conclusion" with The Trap?
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