like a weed, naturally

“oh but you’re all hairy & have big noses” we aren’t, but I sure as hell am & I think that’s very sexy of me 🤷🏻‍♀️

it was so important it deserved its own post!

why go nuts for palestine if palestine is jordan ?

I'll try to keep this simple enough to be digestible to someone learning this history for the first time. Fair warning: Nuance will be lost to brevity.

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Under the control of the British Empire from 1917–1948, the land was called the British Mandate for Palestine.

It included what is now Israel, the West Bank, and Transjordan.

At the time, the term Palestinian referred broadly to all inhabitants - Jews, Arabs, Christians - everybody and anybody living in the territory.

In 1946, Britain carved off the eastern ~75% of Mandate Palestine to create an Arab kingdom called Transjordan (meaning "across/beyond the Jordan River." Transjordan would drop the "trans" and rename itself to "Jordan" in 1949.)

The remaining ~25% of British Mandate Palestine was still called "Palestine."

In 1948, the UN proposed a two-state solution - with a Jewish state and an Arab state - in the remaining ~25% of the full British Mandate.

This would have given the Jews ~55% of what remained of Mandate Palestine after Transjordan was created. Put another way, this proposed a Jewish state in about 14% of what had been the full Mandate before Transjordan was created.

Another ~44% of what remained after Transjordan was created (~11% of what had been the full Mandate) was proposed to be a new Arab state.

About 1% of the land, including Jerusalem and Bethlehem, was proposed to be under UN administration.

Jews accepted this and declared independence as Israel.

Arab leaders both within the Mandate and outside of it rejected the plan and five Arab armies invaded the just-born Israel.

The war did not go as the Arab armies had planned.

At the end of the war:

Israel had not only fended off all five armies, but now controlled ~77% of the non-Transjordan part of the Mandate.

Jordan occupied and controlled the West Bank (called that because it's the land on the West Bank of the Jordan river) and East Jerusalem.

Egypt occupied Gaza.

The Palestinian Arab state proposed by the UN was not created.

From 1949–1967, Jordan ruled the West Bank, granting many living there Jordanian citizenship...but Jordan didn't create a Palestinian state in the West Bank in that ~19 years.

The people of the West Bank did not seek an independent state from Jordan.

Similarly, the people of Gaza did not seek an independent state from Egypt.

According to Wikipedia:

In the 1950s and 1960s, the Jordanian government, including King Hussein and other officials, promoted the slogan "Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan." This reflected the Hashemite strategy to integrate Palestinians into Jordanian society and to present the populations on both sides of the Jordan River as a single, unified group. The regime aimed to prevent the emergence of a separate Palestinian identity and power base.

The Six-Day War (June 1967) started after weeks of rising tension and military moves by Arab states that made war all but inevitable.

Egypt signed military pacts with Syria, Jordan, and Iraq.

Look at the map and imagine it: Egypt in the south, Syria in the north, and Jordan and Iraq in the east...and they all mobilized. Israel was ridiculously outnumbered.

Arab leaders made open, public threats of annihilation.

Egypt's Nasser: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel."

Other leaders spoke of pushing Jews into the sea.

Once again, the war did not go as the Arab armies had planned.

Less than a week after the war started, Israel had captured:

The entire Sinai Peninsula and Gaza Strip from Egypt

The West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan

The Golan Heights from Syria

Arabs in those areas began to call themselves "Palestinians" and have sought an independent state in those territories, which they referred to as the "Occupied Territories."

So...finally back to Anon's question: is Palestine Jordan?

No...and yes...but probably not in the way you mean.

Jordan was created out of the eastern part of British Mandate Palestine.

Many Palestinians live in Jordan — some estimate up to 60% of the population.

But Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza have claimed their own national identity as Palestinians which they regard as separate from Jordan, and have their own local political leadership (the Palestinian Authority and Hamas)...which haven't had elections in the last 20 years and are believed by many Palestinians to be corrupt, embezzling aid to enrich themselves.

Jordan gave up all claims to the West Bank in 1988, saying it’s up to Palestinians to decide their own future.

Wait, what? Why did Jordan do that? Anon is partly asking: Why doesn’t Jordan want the West Bank back?

Jordan had already fought the PLO (which is now, essentially, the Palestinian Authority) in the 1970s during Black September and expelled the PLO from Jordan.

By the 1980s, Palestinians didn't trust Jordan to represent them and they wanted the PLO as their voice.

In December 1987, the First Intifada broke out in the West Bank and Gaza. It wasn't led by Arab states - it came from people in Gaza and the West Bank themselves, especially younger generations. This made it clear to King Hussein that Palestinians wanted self-determination, not rule from Amman (Jordan's capital).

Jordan also didn't want to absorb millions of Palestinians or get involved in a bitter conflict with Israel or the Palestinian factions. It already had a large Palestinian population.

Jordan publicly favors a two-state solution: Israel and a separate Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.

So why, asks Anon, 'go nuts' for Palestine?

Anon, this is sort of at the core of the conflict and it depends both on who you ask and who you think is 'going nuts.'

Full disclosure: We're now going to take some big steps away from mostly geography and basic facts, stroll through a neighborhood of opinion, then end our amble with pure polemics.

For many people - especially in the Arab and Muslim worlds and in parts of the Western far left - Palestine has been held up as a symbol of anti-colonialism and resistance to the West.

This symbolism, in my view, often ignores history and complexity.

Arab states helped block Palestinian statehood for decades

Jordan and Egypt occupied Palestinian land for ~19 years without creating a Palestinian state

The biggest obstacles to peace today are political infighting, terrorism, and Arab rejectionism - not Israel.

It erases the fact of Jewish indigeneity

Zionism has never fit the definition of Settler Colonialism

Increasingly, many Israel supporters (including former Israeli peaceniks) seem to believe that the Palestinian national movement was never actually about statehood.

In my view, this is where we need to briefly discuss Palestinianism because it's the only framing through which the facts make sense to me. I think this framing is correct, but since it is impossible to know what is in the minds and hearts of others, there's plenty of room for good faith disagreement.

So...what's Palestinianism?

It's believing what Zuheir Mohsen, a senior PLO leader, said clearly in a 1977 interview:

The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity… Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons

Palestinianism is the idea that Palestinian national identity is defined not by a shared and unique culture, territory, or political vision for statehood - but by opposition to the existence of a Jewish state.

There's never been a country called Palestine. That's not an opinion, but a verifiable, undeniable, incontestable fact.

Under the Ottomans: it was just part of "southern Syria."

Under the British: it was a Mandate, not nation.

Under Arab rule: nobody made it a country - no one was interested in a country...for ~19 years.

But once Israel showed up - BOOM! Instant national identity. It's like discovering your purpose in life is to be mad that someone else is alive.

What did Arab leadership want in 1947?

To not have a Jewish neighbor.

The UN offered two states: one Jewish, one Arab.

Jews: It's not ideal, but we'll take it.

Arabs: We prefer war.

And when they lost? They blamed colonialism, Zionism, and...wait for it...Jordan, which then annexed the West Bank - a move nobody called an occupation...seemingly because they weren't Jews.

Look at the history and ask yourself: Did Palestinians want a state?

1967 — Post-Six-Day War, the "Three No’s" of Khartoum

The Offer: Israel signals willingness to negotiate land for peace.

The Response: The Arab League votes “No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations.”

2000 — Camp David Summit

The Offer: Arafat is offered 90–95% of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem as capital.

The Response: He walks away without a counteroffer, then the Second Intifada explodes.

2001 — Taba Summit

The Offer: Even sweeter deal than Camp David. Israeli and Palestinian negotiators reportedly got very close.

The Response: Talks collapse, Arafat ghosts again.

2008 — Olmert-Abbas Offer

The Offer: 93.7% of the West Bank, land swaps, Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem, international administration of holy sites.

The Response: Abbas never responds. Literally. Never. Responds.

2014 — Kerry Framework

The Offer: U.S.-brokered framework for final status negotiations. Israel signs on in principle.

The Response: Abbas walks away again and signs with Hamas.

If a state had ever been the goal of the leadership, they'd have a state.

When did the Palestinians start demanding their own state?

Not until 1967, when Israel ended up with Gaza and the West Bank...and Egypt and Jordan refused to take them back.

Arabs: Give us our state back!"

Historians:You...you had no state before. Jordan and Egypt ruled you for 19 years...

Arabs: Shhhh! Details make the narrative messy!

But isn't Palestinian nationalism real?

Does a legitimate nationalist movement have no constitution, no attempt at building infrastructure or an economy, no unified leadership...but three security forces, two authoritarian governments which haven't had elections in 20 years, and a fan club in Berkeley which somehow thinks authoritarian theocracy, kleptocracy, and misogyny are 'liberation'?

Why do peace plans keep failing?

Because the offer always includes Israel still existing, and for Palestinianism, that's a dealbreaker.

Imagine someone offers you 95% of what you've asked for, your capital in East Jerusalem and billions in aid...and your response is: But the Jews still get to have a country...? Hard pass.

You'd think after decades of rejecting statehood, losing wars, and watching corrupt leaders embezzle billions, someone would say:

"Hey... maybe we should try...building something...?"

But no. The brand is resistance. The goal is symbolic victory by pushing the Jews into the sea.

The slogan is still:

من المية للمية فلسطين عربية

From water to water, Palestine will be Arab.

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Hope that answered your question, Anon!