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I don't hate it, but I'm pretty neutral to romance. I get the appeal of Eve and Mark, I really do-- these two codependent young adults who are so powerful everyone around them crumbles if they flick their pinkie wrong, unable to relate or feel close to anyone but each other. Eve is the one of the very limited few we've seen be able to go toe-to-toe with a Viltrumite-- sure, she didn't injure him, but she managed to distract Conquest (one of the buffest Viltrumites EVER) for pivotal minutes of healing. Two weapons of destruction trying desperately to be human together. Mark has daddy issues and Eve got all the autism and together they parallel play on their phones while holding hands and smiling.

I mean. I really don't think they needed to be romantic to have all of that, though. Eve and Mark could be in a QPR or bffs and I don't think their dynamic would be all that different. The difference between friendship and relationships is a pretty thin line, especially when you're doing dangerous work every day- and, honestly, I think sex and kissing can be totally friendly. Emotions are complicated. I'm getting off track, weeeeee.

I like what they're setting up so far in their relationship dynamic-- Mark being dotting and cheesy and gooey-eyed felt fairly natural to me, but I think Eve is still holding back some of her sharper edges because she's always been afraid of being 'too much'. Season 3 has Mark and Eve in the honeymoon phase of their relationship, when you're putting out your best performance in hopes of fostering lifetime commitment. I'm HOPING that's why we've only seen them through money-saving montages or sex, and that now we can move on to them being their own people doing stuff again.

In Angstrom Levy’s Son is Unnamed while in Tv Show, One of His variant does have a name.

Oliver & Haluma’s Kids Are Unnamed but Tv Show could give their names

The way I got caught up on our back and forth I almost forgot this, lol! AND OH MY GOODNESS, IMAGINE? I forget exactly what which point Debbie makes the beach offer, but I’d love when exactly in SU/SUF-timeline they’d go? There’s something so fucking funny to me about them going during the SUF-timeline and always narrowly missing the strange, Steven-shaped mental breakdowns in the back. I know those don’t occur in a single day, but it’s tickling me. How could they miss anything? I don’t know I just think it’s funny.

Though, post-SUF is interesting if Gems can see the similar “world on your shoulders”, Mark has going on! Steven can shunt the narrative in the Gems’ minds, which I think is neat, if I’m not misusing the phrase since the guy’s on the road far away. Or maybe it’s just before Steven goes and they stumble into each other. I’d kinda love Pearl and Debbie interacting, honestly, if they could talk about loving someone who hurt you, hide things from you, even when you thought you knew them so deeply, and they left you to raise a child. Pearl being in a well adjusted space, and Debbie still grieving.

Honestly, the gems could help train Mark, they’re got experience and similar-ish powers in strength, sturdiness, and they can jump/run fast enough for flying to be vaguely similar enough to lecture about, I think. Or Lapis Lazulis, haha! Peridot with her trash can lid! Garnet, I’d love to see if she told Mark anything about his future in vague, well meaning advice. Or even giving relationship advice considering Amber. Or, importantly, how to convince an entire reign to end their colonizing ways, lol. Is Mark perhaps willing to start a war, take advantage of being related to any leaders, or fake his own death to varying results?

Steven having literally JUST left town after accepting he can't carry the world on his shoulders just for Mark to show up w the same problems xD Gems like WE GOT THIS !! No need to call Steven! Debbie could use a QPR group of ladies to help her through life. God, I didn't even think about the Pearl parallels and Pearl is my girl ;-; 'It's Over Isn't It?' for Debbie except its so much more about uncertainty. Like he could come back ! But are you really able to let yourself get caught up on that??

Though at the same time Steven and Mark having a chance to meet seems like it would be so important for Mark's psyche. Just Steven like 'dude I HAVE been there! it DOES get better'.

Haha- outfit swap half-joke reminded me. I had a joke before about Debbie seeing Nolan's washboard abs and just going ??? bro you dehydrated? and dunking his ass in a lake to help him out. Full Nolan-PD to Nolan-Rose Quarts swap pls, w the plush add ons. Like. Viltrumites being so fucking easy to manipulate by their own higher ups in part due to insane diet culture? At least its a fucking explanation unlike what we get in canon... Save the universe, give your partner affection and hydrate them. The lies of their homeworld WILL crumble away after a good meal.

Steven on the road having a great time and he runs into Eve and they're both just like love your pink shirt : ) and they just chill and chat tho too. Like. Completely divorced from hero shit, they just think they met a neat person.

I know the timing for if he just left is sooo funny to me like everyone knows what to do here, while Debbie and Mark are so horribly lost. But trust, the gems are practically professionals on this. This exactly up their alley. I would kill for Pearl and Debbie interactions, exactly! Even if he does come back, do you want him in your life? Are you ready to let go for you? What do you want, Debbie? It isn't just adjusting to the absence, it's finding what you wanna be without him.

Maybe Steven's checking back in for a little bit, and they stumble into each other because yeah, It'd CRUCIAL for Mark to actually have, like, a role model of sorts. Steven made it, he's learning to be okay, he's been through this, and so can Mark. Lessons on how to not let being needed or Becoming Your Parent consume your soul. They swap numbers and lean on each other, they need it, lol. I think it's decent for Steven, too, someone who actually understands.

LMAOOOOOO. No that's so real, every time I see the Defined Washboard abs I just think passing the mf some water. Or spraying them with a hose. VILTRUMITE DIET CULTURE IM SCREAMING. No, because I literally think about if they're so joyless because it's all about colonizing, do they even have, like, yummy cultural foods? Are they chronically hangry? Dehydrated? Like, it's not uncommon for cults to deprive people of basic needs, sleep, food, etc to literally fog up your brain so you can't think as clearly, I can see that being part of the Vitrum Empire. Like, oh, you need this much water to do this, well I only need this little amount and I accomplished more than you! They're just grind/financial scam + diet culture lmao.

Part of me is utterly convinced Nolan enjoyed Earth because of the food istg. Bro is delighted to travel across the world and pick up whatever. My personal HC he keeps an internal map of different restaurants across the world, he keeps trying new places, keeps stock of menus. This also makes me wonder if powers are especially calorie draining, like flying is resisting gravity, using more strength, etc, and Viltrumites are hangry asf all the time, lmao. Mark gets cranky and irritable and feels like he's the worst 'cause he didn't adjust his caloric intake. Get the man some pasta.

Eve and Steven being separate buddies is SO delightful omg? They truly would bond so nicely. Steven can make non-shield shapes as well, I'm sure that'd be fun for the both of them. Pink buddies. It'd be so funny if neither knows they both met Steven, lol.

What DOES Debbie want out of life. Like please show. ONE fucking moment w her about her wants and desires. What did she want to retire into doing? Is that fucking one painting in the hallway hers? Since she seems to have to give Nolan tips on remembering places they went together, is she into cooking? Getting to try outlandish dishes? Did she want to end up in a loft apartment in the middle of the city once her kid was grown and gone? A place in the country? Did she want to stay in the same house?? WHAT WERE HER PLANS BEFORE SHE MET NOLAN ARGHGG tell me something about her

Also maybe let Pearl teach her how to sword fight. As a treat.

I wonder how Debbie and Greg would interact. I think she would be a little ??? about his total 'I am not involved in magic shit so I just don't look' thing he had going for a bit. What is the push and pull between the two of them about human activities vs super powered activities ? Like Debbie definitely supported Mark doing his own thing, but she was not as hands off as Greg was.

I think a lot of ppl have a 'Nolan loves food on Earth' headcanon and I think that's great. Let the man have other joys in life. Eating should def be one of them. God. however the fuck viltrumite bodies work. I just. little nuclear bombs have to be going off inside of them I swear. They have to sucking up background radiation of some sort to keep up with all they can do, especially if they aren't eating or drinking to fuel up! Do they have tiny blackholes inside of them?? what is going on??

Yeah I don't think viltrumites have wonderful cultural foods. It HAS to be all 'I subsided on some ROCKS while I flew UNSLEEPING through SPACE for a MONTH STRAIGHT ragh look at HOW AWESOME I AM' Like their conquest of the galaxy COULD make sense if they were genuine bottomless pits that needed planets worth of resources for personal consumption, but they're not! How has not one of them gone 'hey maybe this is stupid. what are we even doing with all these resources since we don't need to eat and can FLY THROUGH SPACE UNAIDED'. Just. How are you proving strength against people you have already declared to be inferior to you?? it's some of that 'the enemy is as strong or as weak as your leaders need them to be' shit in order to keep you in line.

Currently workin’ on a WIP, so feeling critically starved about who these characters are is horribly real. Begging s3 to give me SOMETHING that wasn’t about Nolan (grieving), or Mark (Mom) ｏ(＞＜；)○. Does she paint??? Did she drop any hobbies? Pick them back up? Like is she freakishly competitive in board games? She makes a whole meal in s1, does she enjoy cooking? Does she follow recipes precisely or vaguely glancing at them, before doing her own thing? But I kinda love Debbie getting into sword fighting, omg. Let her get into fencing. Axe throwing even. Boxing. 

But fr why am I fighting for my life trying to figure out who these characters are???? WHO ARE THEY? W H O ???

I personally can’t imagine Debbie and Greg being very close tbh. I love ‘em both, but Greg’s avoidance conflicts with her involvement? She raised Mark, she thought she knew about Nolan, while the Gems basically had the bulk of custody of Steven, incidentally neglecting crucial stuff like doctor appointments. She was there. Not to say Greg sucks, I think what he did made sense for him, and he’s plenty supportive when Steven comes to him, tho shown as (understandably) biased in a way Debbie hasn’t, looking at SUF. Now craving to see Mark and Debbie bonding, honestly, what was home like when Nolan wasn’t around? Are they really close? Do they share hobbies? Does Mark know all her coworkers, daily annoyances, and watch movies together?

I am endlessly fucking curious about how they work. I'd take the background radiation thing in a heart beat, 'cause there’s no hint at any energy consumption but they gotta be burning plenty??? S2’s last episode really fucked with me because the throwaway line about Mark not liking who he became in a desert, ergo wasteland, suggests he survived for a while, so I straight up figured Viltrumites can photosynthesize. Like Superman vibe? Invincible (show/comic) is the whole Evil Superman Thing, no? There was no suggestion of anything edible or living in that dimension either, so stick them near a star and energy gained? Nolan was in space long enough to grow a beard…? I’m going with vague star batteries. 

Though I’d fucking love if they had, like, weird cravings. Like how humans can eat stuff other animals can’t, can Viltrmutes eat like raw tree bark? Eat wood? Inedible flowers? Drink saltwater? Has Debbie caught Nolan chewing on toxic stuff and just silently screamed in her head? Does cyanide taste good to them? Do toxins/poisons taste like sweeteners? Like, what can’t their teeth break through? Does Mark get indescribable cravings? Changing taste buds? Maybe they’ve always been slightly off? Has Mark, as a child, tried to drink salt water at the beach/on a boat, Nolan nodding like it’s normal while Debbie nearly shrieks? Has Nolan ever said he’s hungry and just sunbathed? Like Mark drinking coffee, does he just think it works?

Debbie tries to slash the fuck outta Angstrom. And she does a decent job. She also tackle dives and catches a falling baby. I kinda get her not being trained~ but why wouldn't she have some sort of physical training, even lightly? Did she just not want to? Did she play a sport ?? is it HER love of baseball that got Mark into it? I know we were given traditional 'father son throw a ball around' bits, but like- its not like Nolan would have given a crap about the sport! Is she a super competitive sports person?? is the reason Mark still doesn't play bc she cussed out a ref at a game ???

As part of some family therapy do the gems decide to play baseball with them and Mark has to be like 'oh no' but then Debbie's competitiveness has already arrived and she's like I AM HERE TO WIN. She's a real estate agent, ffs. An insanely social AND arguably competitive job. She has to be on the hustle constantly, and unless she secretly hates her job, why wouldn't that leak out into her life?

Yeah, full on, my kneejerk response to Debbie and Greg hanging out is that they wouldn't xD They don't have to dislike each other, but they just seem like two people who would not vibe. Or like, maybe people who recognize that when they were younger they probably would have hung out, and that wouldn't have been a good thing lol But who they are with their teen hero kids, I don't see them wanting to spend time near each other.

That could just be part of my 'who tf are you' response to Debbie is that I think she struggled w school bc she partied too hard- and I also just find it stupid the show tried to have her be sad Mark didn't want to stay in school. Like honey, he already missed AN ENTIRE SEMESTER. He only went bc his gf was going. Where did you think that would go. where. Tell him it's okay he took a different path in life! Its not like you need a college degree to become a real estate agent (tho comic!Debbie does mention she has a business degree, even tho she was a housewife for pre-reveal storylines) its just like. Sometimes the show sort of gives you glimpses but they feel so ?? its like- what- THATS what you went with. To sort of repeat myself with my dislike of the 'was it really a relationship' line she has... eurgh. It can be weird to have to try and fill in so much, but at some point you just have to start xD

I always took Mark's survival in the dead world to be a cannibalism thing, due to the like, mad max vibes and caravan he knocked out before Angstrom showed up. Could a viltrumite eat itself to sustain its life ? That'd be wild.

There is technically a lore reason why some viltrumites have scars and others don't- and presumably those without will never have- which does raise questions about how they HEAL but whatever. Yeah, changing character design for production is a pain, but I am also a fan of characters getting to change over the course of their story. Does Mark feel weird when his little baby human scraps and scars vanish when he got his powers? Did they? Were they still present until his dad beat the shit out of him, and when he healed, they vanished? Whats it like not to have that history anymore? that reminder?

If nothing can poison them they have to be able to process anything !! right? even if it just passes through them? Nolan eating raw pufferfish and like, broken thermometers for the mercury is hilarious. Mark eating paper as a kid and Nolan full on handing him a tree branch to gnaw on bc he remembered Debbie mentioning they should limit his processed food intake maybe.

Debbie being super into baseball is so fun, holy shit? And it makes sense? The whole 'Play Catch' works for classic Father-Son imagery, sure, but in retrospect, truly, why would Nolan care? How much does Nolan actually invest in learning about any culture/history? Does he care to, colonizer informant, excluded? Like, treading back to him blatantly ignoring his whole colonizing mission, does he do that with other things? Like, pretend he doesn't know how his GoG watch works so he can ignore it, idk. But back to Debbie, my love, it'd way more sense for it to be her thing! Like, Debbie being a highly competitive, former baseball player, adds such a fun tidbit to her, (adding somethin' special to the baseball flashback), and thereby her and Mark's relationship too! Like, instantly more interesting and telling.

Mark quitting because Debbie takes it too seriously is so fucking funny to me, omg. I just wanna see Nolan was smugly at the side like that's my wife, cursing out the ref, yeah, fuck that guy! Doesn't even know enough of baseball to know why she's yelling. Meanwhile Mark is internally screaming about how embarrassing this is. There's also so much fun layers of like, classic family drama for sports stuff. What if Debbie enjoys baseball more than Mark liked to play, and boom, instant parallel of Mark wary of failing family legacies, if Debbie was a legit good player. Maybe Mark quitting highlights his switch to heroism over something more arguably grounded, idk. Plus, as mentioned, if she's competitive asf only adds to her career choice! Now I know something about her! Makes it make sense!

She and the, like, volley-ball playing Quartz gems would get along so well if she's like this, lmao.

Also, yeah, guys be so fucking fr rn, he missed A SEMESTER? I'm echoing here but he followed his girlfriend to college. He was just going through the motions of expectations, which now feels like an incidental trait of Mark. Complying w/ expectations, trying his hardest, despite how little he knows about what he's doing. Like, college? Just follow his girlfriend. Heroism? Trying his best. I know there's also fatherly idolization at work here, other factors whatever, but I'm just wondering, the "IDK WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE?" has me scrambling for anything. Like, okay, Mark likes comics, that's a hobby which is more than I can say for other characters, now why? What trying to say about him? Is it escapism?

But back to the point, it really is odd? College degrees are great, yes, sure, but there are jobs available for HS graduates, no? Clearly, a long-time yearly commitment for college isn't in Mark's cards, if he feels owed to be a hero, (adding to my complying with expectations argument quietly here) considering the apparent depletion of the world's Only Super Hero Team Ever. It's especially odd though if her particular career doesn't need college either so like ??? Just feels like the expected motions of "aw man no college :/" and not, a) online school exists, prob self paced, too, and b) college's not a mandate, he'll live w/o one. But seriously, when the show does elaborate I'm only have more questions.

Cannibalism makes sense but I personally married to plant-like, photosynthesizing viltrumites. I want them to be weird. I want some anatomy fuckery that isn't just hand-wavery tidbits, like, they don't have tail bones, they've got one different organ, fuck it, slightly different teeth. Can they see slightly better in the dark? Weirdly good or poor sense of smell?

YES! I'd kill for visual cues showcasing the changes! I love that shit so much. Scars are just a lovely way to do so, but I'd love if in response to the fear of mirroring Nolan, he started mimicking Debbie, visually. Trying to be her son, and not his. But back to scars, there's such a fascinating horror within the very erasure of scars? Like where bone punctured through skin, where the body bruised, where teeth lay knocked out, etc, etc, etc, and Mark looks and there's nothing there. Does it make him downplay what happened, then, there's no real injury anymore, right? How bad could it have been if there's no wounds to show for it, and general mind fuckery. Does it make his own body feel alien, almost? Strange, almost ill-fitting? Does Mark try to keep track of injuries himself, then? A mental list?

Nolan hearing they need to limit his processed food and eating that kid a whole bit of tree is so fucking funny. Mark crunches on 'em like chips and Debbie has to yank it out of his mouth lmao. I am so curious how parenting worked when Nolan was around, like what does he know about care-taking, was he a help, hindrance, etc? Also Nolan thinking of paper as "processed" so raw wood works better is killing me. The horror of Debbie hear broken glass and not knowing if Mark broke something or Nolan's snacking on mercury. I wonder if they ever argued over Mark's diet, IF Nolan was invested enough. I am once again asking what care-taking /childhood expectations for Viltrum?

I would honestly and undoubtly kill for Mark being a genuine clusterfuck of different cultures because it's so interesting, (see: Mark learning other people don't eat paper/wood/mercury/etc and not just because their mom's don't like it at, like, 7, I fucking froth at the mouth for the potential of Mark just being kinda strange, reflecting how he'd grew up instead of being Staple Of Normal-Ish Average Teenage Boy). Or him being mostly normal, which okay fine, deny me the fascinating impact of have SuperHero Dad, but like, no throwaway line about any of it? I get why, whatever, it's the Normal until Powers Kicked In, but let him be a little off, I BEG.

But there is something to be said about, yeah, how did people take it how possibly rehearsed and repetitive Nolan talked about his home? Did they notice? Or was it left as a sensitive subject and left alone? How did Nolan talk about it at all? Did he shut down, bristle, or just jump into Lying His Ass Off. Did people notice when he got nostalgic? Did he ever? Has he accidentally admitting things? Has Debbie pushed, or paralleling Greg, they both left their homes so she didn't want to push?

God. If I cared or knew anything about a sport I could do so much more with sport fanatic!Debbie. It really is just one thing to give her that would grant her so much more depth. It was part of the fun in writing Duplicity and giving her a highly specialized career and history in that- what she studied came with the ability to give her so much more personality/tidbits/quirks! The show really just needs to give this woman one(1) hobby. It would lift so much weight in terms of her character.

Tho Mark bouncing from one parental expectation to the next would be something lol tbh, as much as I love their dynamic in the show Debbie also being a bit of a failure as a supportive parent would be great. Like. You too can ruin your child's sense of self !! It isn't hard. Everyone around Mark being like 'wow your folks are so accomplished!' and him just screaming in their shadows. Somehow being a superhero seems easier than living up to whatever Debbie had going on.

Mark having to physically remove his mother from the volleyball court bc she would not get out of the way of a gem powered ball spike xD

Mark's love of Seance/Science Dog is SUCH a character thing for him, I wish they actually let us know a storyline from it. Like. why was it his favorite?? the magic?? bc the dog was cute?? is it just supposed to be a Dr Strange rip off??? what about a Dr Strange narrative appealed to him so much??? What was going on there ??? did he want to be an artist one day?? was he scared of ruining his hands?? did his dad not think it worthwhile?? or did Nolan like, support drafting classes for military map making but Mark just wanted to doodle cartoons??? Was he scared to be a writer bc his father already was one ???

college. fr. you let this kid have a cellphone instead of a pager when things got updated for the adaption- why not have him do online classes??? is it bc he DOESN'T HAVE ANY INTERESTS? which quite frankly is just a different reason to go to school- so he can be exposed to other ideas and maybe you know- like his mom said- learn who Mark is ! Since we're basically only ever given a story about Invincible.

re: plant viltrumites... I thought for a minute about them being like a parasitic/symbiotic colony type thing that just LOOKS bipedal/human bc a long time ago whatever latched on to the nervous system on a humanoid alien to give it powers in return for being its host was vaguely human shaped. And then over time the line between host and symbiote blurred so much they just became one thing. Nolan as a mushroom colony shaped man. Them being fungi would explain so much of their weird healing imo.

I constantly think about redesigning viltrumites as actual aliens. It would just. be so. fun. You seen Nope? (sorry for the spoilers if you haven't lol) Bc that's what I'm thinking. Big inhuman monstrous space form and a vaguely humanoid shape when subject to gravity so they can use the tech/setting of where they invade. I would love them to be totally inhuman!! ALIENS should alien. Rubber forehead aliens in Trek were bc of budget reason. This was a comic and now it's a cartoon. WHERE ARE THE ALIENS.

I also wish Mark had more weird hybrid shit going for him. First ever/only viltrumite/human hybrid in EXISTENCE?? where is the baffling medical data? Where are the redundant organs? Where is the shit neither Debbie or Nolan can explain? Where were the fucked up medical decisions they had to make re: his growth to keep him alive vs just letting him develop in a way that could kill him if certain parts of his hybrid anatomy didn't play nice??? Where was the insane scientific intervention for her to get pregnant in the first place ???

Though also, the idea of viltrumites being like shapeshifters would be neat. Take on the form of the world to blend in and then no one knows what an actual vitrumite looks like. Mark running into his father again and finally seeing his father after painfully being forced to relearn everything he thought he knew. Them being borderline parasitic/cuckoo like in how they operate. just. yeah.

The way a singular hobby that speaks to her character would easily do WONDERS and they still refuse. They make her a mom to an affair child, which is utterly insane. Let her be a person? I'm not a sports person either, but there's something so delightful about her being to enthusiastic about it, and an actual good ass player before her current career. If it wasn't baseball, I'd honestly love if it was hockey. It speaks to my soul. Mark loses a kiddie tooth in a hockey match, and Debbie, once making sure he's okay, is so proud 'cause she lost hers the same way.

Also, I wonder if a potential tidbit of their dynamic is Mark could be sports/activity hopping in his youth, Debbie trying to find a non-heroic thing that fits, until while waiting in a some kind of lobby Debbie finds Mark plopped down the the floor reading some comic and it's like ah, okay, we found your thing. Baseball/Hockey Debbie is also fun 'cause if another Villain In The House happens, she can grab a bat and just hit a motherfucker with some deadly force.

I WISH DEBBIE ALSO RUINED MARK'S SENSE OF SELF SO BAD. Like okay whatever generic supportive Mom but the way I'd be so enthused for her to also fail in some ways is so peak. Like Debbie's trophies / old photos in the hall, the way she's well earning breadwinner in her career, while Nolan is over here saving a president for the 48475th time, and Mark likes comic books? Peak. The crushing weight of their respective success LOOMS over Mark. The way it could add to his NEED to be a good hero because his parents are so successful. I'd love if Debbie's trying to talk about this and Mark just explodes because Debbie's success is intimidating too, and Mark feels like he doesn't have anything. Bonus points if Marks did sports for his mom and didn't enjoy as much as she hoped and never told her. His comic interest is "tiny" in comparison!!

BUT NO SERIOUSLY. College it THE place to explore who he is, what he wants, even what kind of hero he wants to be, like he could have a medical background to help victims or be informed on building collapses to keep them study when damaged, like even if he isn't gonna get the social aspect, the way they refuse to even think about online classes is BAFFLING. Even more so with the pager comment, how are you selectively updating the story????

FUNKY FUNGI VILTRUMITES? FUSION OF VAGUELY BIPEDAL AND SYMBIOTIC/PARASITIC IS INCREDIBLE? You are speaking my language istg. I wish they were fucked up alien creatures and Mark becomes an even more fucked up hybrid by proxy. WHY ARE THEY JUST HUMAN SHAPED. BORING, DULL, SNOOZE. I've watched Nope, and I'm a fan of Alien and The Thing, so I fucking love when aliens are actually scary and weird and foreign. I love the idea of Nolan being able to open up layers, expand and unfold, and having a vaguely bipedal, incidentally human-ish shape for convenience to fight. Compact for less area to be attacked. AND YES LET MARK BE A CREATUREEEEEE. Like he's a HYBRID. I want him to have like two sets of teeth, weird, extra bones, or weirdly fluid bones in specific areas, redundant organs. Weird aches as he grows up and NEEDED check-ins to make sure he continues to survive!

Like, I was working on a fic and randomly decided while humans gotta NOT stare at the sun, Viltrumites can. They can do so for about an hour before it hurts, they're got stronger eyes which allow them to NOT blink for hours, adding to the whole apex predator thing. They don't need to blink, they can keep you in sight. Ominious! Threatening! Mark by proxy doesn't really need to blink. He forgets to, until he sees his Mom doing it and just kinda copies her, even if subconsciously (like a yawn). Heck, make Mark "colorblind" because he can see a wider spectrum of light that's visible and mixes up human spectrum of visibility. Hand-wavey vaguely sciency things that just sound intriguing. Make Mark not yawn. He doesn't. He can mimics it but he can't do it naturally. Maybe he can't shiver or sweat.

Also straight up shapeshifter???? PEAKKKK. ADDS TO THE HORROR. You don't know what they really look like, but they mimic well enough you can't really tell.

Mark getting banged up and growing and getting scars from Sport and it makes his mom share her scar stories ! but then Dad sees the marks and is like : / you vulnerable human thing. And Mark is like D : Injury = weakness??? Mom was so proud of me getting back up after my tooth was gone! Why does dad look at me like it's gross ??

I've ranted so many times about how I hate her taking care of Oliver but I am ALWAYS WILLING TO RANT SOME MORE. Like, not only does she take them in, she names him after her dad ??? hello ??? Do you hate your father Debbie ??? do you fucking hate him ??? Why would you want the constant reminder of your father while looking into the living face of the reminder that Nolan instantly got on with his life and apparently gave 0 fucks about everything you built together ???

Now I'm thinking about how Eve had to kill all her siblings when she was a kid and she would also be a better choice for someone to talk to Oliver about killing then Mark, but I'm pretty sure Eve never discusses her backstory in any capacity with Mark.so. yeah.

Philosophy and general history aside, Mark, bare minimum, you gotta take a physics course buddy. You are flying and hitting things way too damn fast not to look into what happens when force is applied to objects.

One of the headcanons I have for Debbie is that she's decently fluent in a number of languages due to all that time traveling with Nolan, and I just love the idea of her being this like Cool Figure at parties that's been all over and always has a story and can talk to anyone from out of town bc she recognizes their accent and knows their native language and then there's Mark who can't point to Europe on a fucking map and only speaks English and ppl are like ?? you didn't grow up speaking other languages ?? and he's just like.. I want to read my comic now. Bc sure, maybe he knows bits and pieces, but he wouldn't have gone to wine tastings and every fancy dinner event and clearly the world travel is also a bit of date night so of course Mark got left home!

Like, the we took Mark to the north pole when he was 8 and he cried story was cute, but also... how aware was Mark (canonically) of Nolan's super powers? bc the flashback to the 'I'm a superhero' speech he gives him, Mark seems about ten, and it seems like he was unaware of things up until then. So like. So if he was totally cut off from flying around with dad while he was little for whatever reason, how does he feel about the lost time from getting taken around the world? The fact he was in the dark for so long about what his dad could do? whose decision was it not to tell him? I could see some of it being from Debbie bc kids will blab and it's for the family's protection, but I could also see human-weeabo!Nolan being like, I am human right now, and am enjoying the game of being human too much to bother with thinking about the fact that my child is not human.

Plus if Nolan is funky parasite man how far would he go in potentially infecting people he likes in an attempt to preserve them. Give me even more emotional and physical scars!! 'you have alien Something inside of you and we cannot get rid of it and we do not know what it is doing but it clearly came from Him you are marked Forever'.

Kid!Mark just like, shedding one day and leaving a little skin suit behind and Nolan and Debbie both having to be like ??????? the fuck ??? okay.

NOOO, that's so much fun omg, Mark's confict of being human enough to wound being a symbol of taught pride from Debbie, but weak as a Viltrumite and making him insecure, icky about his own scars. RRAHHHHHH. Nolan stop ruining this for Mark istg. The whiplash of vitrum genes kick in and suddenly he doesn't have ANY scars and he wants them back again. He doesn't want to be more like his Dad anymore, he wants his scars back, he wants to be Debbie's son. Legit would go crazy if he had a chipped tooth but Vitrum genes unchip the tooth. Weird healing biology fuckery.

AND SPEAK ON IT!!! WHY WOULD SHE TAKE HIM IN??? AFFAIR ASS BABY???? Like not only did do all this shit to you, but your kid comes back with MORE dad issues and an WHOLE AFFAIR CHILD? LIKE HELLO? NOLAN WHEN I CATCH YOU. Like, PLEASE, it is so much better if Mark steps up for the role, like the EASY parallels to either Nolan or Debbie we could've had makes me so illll. ALSO I FORGOT THAT? WHAT'S DEBBIE RELATIONSHIP WITH HER DAD, HELLO? Like not only is the reminder your own husband, that you taught how to a more rounded person and father and shared years of your life with said fuck you, but now he's named after your damn Dad? DEBBIE WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???

The way Eve and Mark are supposed to be a whole couple but like ??? It'd be pretty neat if she DID share that, or even helped the whole No Kill conversation with Oliver considering she's been a hero longer than Mark has! Also, like, what does Oliver know about his origins? He'd a kid so I'm sure that's a convo for later, but ?? Does he have NOTHING from his own mom? No mementos? Does Mark and Debbie get weirdly snappy about his apparent Dad, refusing to talk/discuss, making Oliver curious? Will he ever pull a "you're not my REAL mom" and Debbie snaps "I never wanted to be", gimme my family drama dammit. I feel kid characters do risk being boring asf by having similar Kid Personality + Can't Think Things Through, but this is a kid raised in THIS specific household.

He's also not human at ALLLL. If Mark eats wood, Oliver is straight up trying to chew a corner of the table. They don't keep mercury thermostats in the house anymore. Make the kid hiss PLEASE? Also single parent Mark arc would go so hard 'cause he's like 18, guilty asf, trying his best. How does a kid MARK tried to raise turn out? Is he bratty because Mark spoils him 'cause their shared Dad sucks, Mark's mom doesn't want to raise him, Oliver's own Mom is a whole galaxy away, and Mark is almost all he's got. There's something so fun, parallel wise, if just like Mark who idolized his Dad for being his dad AND Omni-Man, Oliver idolizes brother for being Invincible? Gimme Mark terrified of being depended on in case he fails. Gimme Mark realizes his Dad never tried to be AROUND like this. Gimme Mark realizing he CAN be more than Dad was.

Chewing on the bars of my enclosure about this.

Mark learning physics made me cackle 'cause at what point has he given himself several concussions? Boy, ease your way into slowing down you don't HAVE to crash.

Debbie being cool asf, weirdly knowledge, experienced, been to every place with wild stories and wild experiences is so fucking good. She's got photos of all the wonders of the world, she's fluent in multiple languages, you travel anywhere with her and not only does she know a place, the people know her and fondly. The contrast of Mark being notoriously bad at geography, cut off them these experiences, no impressive hobbies, is so good. Also I'm sure we discus before but I will beg for Debbie giving Mark emotional damage as well. LET HER. Also Nolan loving his human-persona sm is killing me. He utterly ignores the viltrum specific genes Mark's got, or the potential issues he's got with being a hybrid, like no he's Human and he doesn't know why Mark's teeth hurt or he doesn't HAVE baby teeth.

OMG NOLAN INFECTING PEOPLE TO PRESERVE??? YESSS. It's giving a subtle flavor of resurrecting people against their will. SO GOOOOD. SO PEAK. YOUR MIND.

As a fan of eldritch horror and funky hybrid explorations (SUF/SU they could never make me hate you, Steven has SO much going on and it's largely emotional based? RIP Steven's sanity) Mark being too alien for people but to other-ly for Viltrumites is so PEAK. Was playing w/ the idea Viltrumites don't really need to blink, ominous predator thing to never set your eyes off Enemy/Prey, BUT ALSO they blink as a social cue to emphasis your guard is lowered/trust/relaxed, like how it's theorized people yawn socially cue to OTHERS that they're tired. But Mark just ?? Doesn't Have to blink?? And some point forgets. It makes him like Ready to Attack and Wired to Viltrumites and straight up ominous to people, who can't quite put together why. It has to consciously choose to blink, and that's usually when he's nervous, contradicting his behavior even further who notice a) has this mf not blinked this entire time???? (people) or b) he is Blinking but he is Agitated that is Wrong (viltrum).

Gimme Mark subtly floating barely a speck off the floor and thus soundlessly walks around. Viltrumites still make NOISE when they walk OR they float. Mark straight up doesn't yawn.

Truly, the only thing we know for certain about Debbie is that she has the most unhinged relationships w the men in her life : /

Now I'm just trying to think about how to spin a Cecil DOES get involved at that stage and neither Mark nor Debbie raise him and the hilarity of that lol Given how much I find Oliver's entire personality to be a plot device and not genuine character development, I still see him turning into a massive little dick wad- but Cecil having to call Mark to like, come 'round up his brother and Mark wondering if his absence in his life is what caused him to be a dick (no Mark, apparently he's just built that way but you wouldn't know that for sure in this AU) and just the general fuckery of once more having to confront a member of his family lol

Or him TRYING to take care of Oliver solo and just failing so hard at it that he has to beg Cecil to help him bc he doesn't want to go to his mom. Give us THAT Fucked up parental/mentor dynamic.

In the comic it is stated the Oliver remembers everything from when he was a baby, but I'm not sure if the show is keeping that. I imagine they are, they're keeping a bunch of other stupid shit, so Arguably he is VERY aware of his origins but I would still be curious to know how Debbie and Mark framed it for him. How they discussed it. As he continues to not experience any empathy or compassion for other living beings I'm sure the show will get into it ?? maybe ?? bc yeah I would think spending the first few months of your life in the wreckage of a city your dad's people destroyed would affect you maybe, but somehow it just resulted in Oliver really liking his dad- like what DID Mark tell him ??? Dad USED to be a hero called Omni-Man but not anymore?? how sugar coated was it?? did Debbie refuse to participate in that convo ???

The one alien thing we get from Oliver being that Debbie had to chew his food for him makes me gnash the walls. Like this fuckin' kid grows up and still names himself after his absentee dad who ruined BOTH his moms' lives (I consider fucking up her planet/city and abandoning her to be a bad thing for Andressa however chill she was about it). like. what the fuck happened there? Why would Mark spend so much time building up their dad when he clearly still has plenty issues about how he views the guy ??? If Oliver is watching videos on the internet, how many of them are of Omni-Man destroying Chicago? Putting Mark's head through a train? Where did you pick up being an asshole Oliver ??? WHERE

Debbie be defined by something OTHER than men challenge (failed). I am so tired. Make her a person. Please. Can she ever be a person? Can she please?

Oliver does scream plot device, which I feel neutral for, small children tend to be I suppose. Tho it irritates me more when his actions/thoughts don't actually reflect how he's parented by Debbie and/or Mark. Which we've discussed before already, but what really ticks me off is why he looks like a purple human child. Cosplay dye gone wrong ass baby. Who dunked him in grape juice. NOBODY IS PURPLE. And I KNOW this isn't a unique mutation thing because they NEVER bring up how being a hybrid impacts their biology/culture/genes/what have you (at least in show?). THRAXANS ARE ALL BLUE. They're not even different shades of blue. HE'S PURPLE. I am calming myself down. I am calm. Back to the point, Cecil raising Oliver is such a concept...scribbling that down for a oneshot cause, truly, what would that look like? Though, there's something so funny about Oliver still being a little shit and Mark blaming himself anyway. He's such a guilt magnet (affectionate).

AND GASP. Mark failing so hard at raising Oliver, rather than dragging Debbie into it, it's CECIL? The fucked up parental/mentor dynamic of the CENTURY? HELLO? You can't just say this to me, my brain is spinning. At what point does he realize he's over his head? Like, does Cecil get an emergency call only to realize it's a sleep deprived, painfully frantic Mark trying to ask him how to put a shrieking, fussy toddler to sleep? Cecil refusing to change diapers. What does that look like, omg. Does Oliver live there at the GDA and Mark starts visiting like crazy, and there's in-house babysitters designated to Oliver? Shared custody omg. I can potentially see Cecil agreeing only to use as leverage, Mark owes him, and Oliver can be potentially loyal to him?

Why would Oliver be so aware? And, yeah, it's the framing of his origins that's driving my curiosity, here. Because yeah, if he remembers the utter destruction of his own home and his dad's people killing others, would he not have some hostility towards Nolan? Like, is Nolan just described as a "bad guy"? A hero who did "bad things"? Have they ever tried framing murder/death/etc in a way Oliver can understand, he's a child, no? Like how does Oliver like his dad so much? HOW???? Is Mark telling Oliver the fun stories about their dad as he processes how he feels about Nolan? Like it'd be one thing if Debbie doesn't talk about it at all + Mark can't process the full what Nolan did, thus telling romanticized stories. Then it makes Mark's inability to articulate why it's so bad make sense, because he has to face what Nolan did to others/him/Debbie/etc himself. But that's not what they're doing here? This is why this show makes me squint. They just have a dynamic but not how we got here, and it's not quite clear why they'd even act that way to cause this outcome.

CHEW HIS FOOD? I FORGOT THAT?? JUSTICE FOR DEBBIE? WHAT ABOUT A BLENDER BRUH? Also fr, Debbie did SO MUCH for this AFFAIR CHILD and this mf names himself Omni-Man Junior/The kid whatever. TRULY WHERE DID HE? It can't even be a "oh viltrumites genetically/biologically find it difficult to emphasize," 'cause look at Mark??? HE'S ALSO A HYBRID? Why wouldn't Debbie point out Mark used to be the same way if she's raised both? Nolan, like you said, ruined lives. Ruined Andressa's! Oliver would REMEMBER THAT ??? Oliver would SEE any article / post / video about Nolan is HIM DESTROYING ANOTHER CITY? Outright trying to kill his BROTHER. If anything, Oliver could've been so hostile to Nolan he'd want to kill him, just SAYING that, and not quite understanding the depth of death/murder, THUS Mark's inability to refute that THEN stems from a) the shock b) dealing with the thought he doesn't want his Dad to die and still misses him c) acknowledging his Dad has continuously hurt people and hasn't stopped yet, would that be right? Boom, morality dilemma. Or, solidify Mark TRYING to be consistently anti-kill, batman style.

Like this can work, at least for me, but the current setup is confusing????

Also give Oliver ability to make insect-like sounds. Like legit anything. I'm trying to push through wip's, and I keep including Oliver makes a clicking sound (like predator movies) as a baby 'cause it's a noise Thraxans can make, like give me something different??? WHY IS A PURPLE CHILD.

I do my best to be like 'yeah that's a kid, limited experience/perceptions whatevs' but also... that is a fictional character written by an adult. At the end of the day if you fail to make me feel anything but annoyance/rage at the character, I will unapologetically dislike them and age is not a limiting factor lol Plus you have so many opportunities to not make him obnoxious (or at the very least justify his obnoxiousness) and then you don't it's like ?? Then you pile on the added factors of why the fuck is Debbie his main parent, and are we ever going to address why Nolan felt compelled to actually produce another child in the middle of his suicidal depression after fucking up his last one- like... Not only is he a plot device to make Mark think about shit that he has plenty of other plot devices making him think about anyway (his dad's 'we're better than them' speech, finding out every other version of him is a prick- like Oliver saying 'what if dad is right' is SO pointless bc it's a thought that should have already occurred to Mark and been faced and- dealt with or not - we didn't need this specific character to talk about it!) so Oliver just basically fucks up other characters arcs/personalities in the process of asking a question THAT SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN ASKED.

I WILL sit down and write Kregg or Lucan using toddler purple boy as a bludgeon against Nolan's head and him having to sit their with his dead son's brains in his mouth and actually face the immediate consequences of his actions instead of getting to run off to a secondary location and decide how to approach it from a distance. Literally NO ONE had to die on Thraxa Nolan. You could have just left.

Yeah the purple-ness is BS. It's like 'Nolan has red blood, Andressa has blue skin... those two colors make purple!' like SIR ??

It almost feels like the characters personalities have been retconned a bit. Like. Mark guilt magnet 'I must control myself' Grayson absolutely failing so hard at that or even apparently caring at failing so hard at that. I already had my secondary post ranting about Debbie's parenting thus far this season lol Like, do these people not remember anything that happened to them previously ?? The trajectory was wobbly, but you had a trajectory! Mark TRYING to get in control and finding it harder could have been a thing ! But no, he just had strength training and now murders his way through his problems ?? Maybe Debbie overcompensating because Nolan WAS a murderer so she put too many heroes vs bad guys shit in Oliver's head ?? but no ?? they're just ?? acting weird ??? instead ??

Nolan disproved that viltrumites aren't inherently incapable of experiencing empathy! He just had to learn it ! And Oliver was definitely raised in a situation where he should have been learning it ! SO WHERE IS THIS ELITISM COMING FROM. WHERE WHERE SHOW. Did his thraxan mom kissing him on the forehead and calling him the specialist boy ever (worth the destruction of her planet!) fuck up his head?? we ever going to talk about Andressa again?? ever?

So like how you talked about not wanting to read the manga while watching the anime bc it changes things- I am unfortunately anticipating way too much and it's kinda throwing things off for me lol I genuinely wonder if I will like this season a lot more on a second watch bc I won't be spending the entire time screaming at the screen about things almost happening. Like. I knew who was the king of Earth in the future, so, the slow ass build up to it just made me fucking impatient. Not to mention my future comic knowledge of how that story line comes around at all just makes me roll my eyes at everything that happened there- tho at least show Mark points out that Immortal could have just, y'know, STOPPED- something his comic counterpart never seemed to realize was a valid thing to say. Like dude. Suicide by Mark is still suicide. Throw your ass into the sun! You met Mark and Kate at the same time, but you remember him and not her? You've had hundreds of wives? Get this man a pocket pussy, apparently he can't experience any empathy for living things unless his dick is getting wet on the reg. Like. Immortal just annoys me so much. Enduring while everything around you dies is an interesting story ! Somehow every time he tries to bring it up I just hate him.

Though he is just another example of something that I think Kirkman had done a few times- which is it doesn't seem to occur to characters that they can say no. Nolan, bud, maybe DON'T become emperor of the people of a planet you know nothing about ?? Did it ever occur to you that would be a BAD MOVE ? You can help out and not be their ruler. Same for Immortal. Not to mention future Mark being so into dictators he assigns one to Earth is wild. Kirkman just seems to really love dictators.

I think Nolan's almost execution and the break out was done SUPER well. Love watching that pathetic man try and drown himself in regret like this bitch doesn't full on have two kids he is escaping responsibility for in the process. Sir. It is time for you to use your punchy punch powers to maybe start punching things back together.

I thought the reveal that Viltrumites were almost extinct was going to happen at the end of last season, so, to say I have been waiting for this news is an understatement xD I also thought one thing I was super worried about got addressed to never come back to haunt me, only to realize it is still VERY possible for it to be brought up and I just have so much anxiety about that- that until I know one way or another my enjoyment of what is in the eps is SO limited. Like, I NEED TO KNOW so I can know whether or not to be mad and just deal with it, or I can be relieved and just enjoy what comes next.

Fun fact, we now know more about Rae- and have seen her in civilian clothes- then we do about Kate. WILD.

I like PFT but having the narrator come back was so unnecessary. They tried to push the comedy so hard this ep, and I imagine it's supposed to be a breather before more oncoming shit hits the fan but.. Allen is enough comedic relief. I don't need a random voice.

Also Mark, your mom has had some serious traumatic experiences with people breaking into her house- maybe don't sneak people in and not tell her about it. Maybe. Yes haha funny moment (and I was full on waiting for Debbie to be like 'tell Eve I said goodnight' through the door) but I will still sit here and be like stop lying to your mom about stupid shit! Let her know whose in the house so she wont be freaked out by it!

Because TRULY, a character, including a child, CAN be endearing and likable without being SO violently Child Coded, AND violently uninteresting??? I gesture at the casually unhinged Robins in DCU, while most a young adult now (sans Damian), when they were young, they were still interesting??? Characterizations will vary wildly, but that's a rant + research deep dive I do not have the energy for, but point being, why is Oliver like this??? Like you mention, Mark has PLENTY of opportunists to self reflect and ponder, but they don't take them??? I am once again screaming at the Angstrum V. Mark fight, because him being literally stranded in the desert with a fucking corpse is the most perfect opportunity to expand his mentality, even if he gets WORSE? Actively clawing at the god damn walls for denying me Invincible's potential Storm in the Room episode.

AND LIKE YOU SAID? Why the fuck did Nolan have a whole ass affair baby? Are we ever gonna know why? Bro was married for years with exactly one kid and just ??? Did exactly what he told Mark he would during his violent meltdown ?? REPLACE THEM??? Who told you to do all that, my guy???

AND YEAH. Show having this be Oliver's personality despite DEBBIE clearly being his MAIN PARENT, istg they're lying to me. Ain't no way she'd ever have a child that's THIS murder-happy. It's Debbie. Take not shit from Nolan!Debbie. Stopped Mark from feeling higher than humanity instantly!Debbie. Either the babysitter's feeding Oliver some bullshit while they're not looking, or characters are being rewritten for a plot we don't NEED? AND TRULY SPEAK ON IT. Nolan having the actual audacity to grab his non-purple son instead of just not putting ANOTHER planet is danger is so insane to me? Mf stays ruining whole families???? Sir, who told you to do all this? WHO? Also please write that omg, I'd be cacklingggg.

ALSO THANK YOU FOR SAYING CHARACTERS FEEL RET-CONNED. I am so utterly fucking insane this season, because who are these people? Never mind show refusing to explain what the stakes for / any world building to make me feel tense when new!GoG broke up, or when Mark refused to listen to Cecil, if their entire dynamic is just living in This Place or not getting jump-scared by a man teleporting in your own home with a Task.

BUT WHERE IS GUILTY ASF MARK? Why is the show actively lying to me but who these people are? Mark is guilty, he is desperately trying to keep himself in control, HE IS A GUILT MAGNET. Anyone should be able to use his guilt against him in some capacity but he straight up ignores two strangers asking for help? Bro should have folded, not have been kidnapped? Mark did not fight hard enough to NOT kill people this season istg, maybe it's my love of whump talking, but bro should be SHAKING at the thought of killing anyone else, or is Angstrum + s1e8 just a foggy little memory? LIKE HUH? Bro should be SCARED of killing people, he should be blaming himself if anyone dies, he should be trying SO hard to control himself (even if that's rage!!!) and finding it harder and harder for a lovely arc! Or his guilt/fear starting to get in his way. Have him train anxiously even, trying to make sure he has COMPLETE control over his strength.

Did we just ???? forget ??? Nolan used Mark to kill people, and Mark straight up had a melt down over killing Angstrum on purpose, if they ACTUALLY stayed committed to how desperately anti-kill Mark is TRYING to be, Mark freaking out over Cecil utilizing known killers would MAKE MORE SENSE. Now, it retroactively makes less sense. It doesn't feel like a, "oh he's getting desensitized and darker", NO. I DON'T KNOW WHO THIS MAN IS. Bring my guilt magnet BACK.

Literally doing anything else with Debbie's parenting with Oliver would make more sense for HER. Like you said, her being so black and white about killing, and (if Mark as properly guilty again), Mark would double down on that. Never kill ever. Instead???? We Have???? Omni-Man's number one fan for ??? No reason ???? There are a million reasons we just went over where that just doesn't MAKE sense? ALSO YEAH ARE WE GONNA TALK ABOUT ANDRESSA? Her whole baby gone and her husband lied. How does she feel? It, again, I'm sure I'm repeating myself somewhere, doesn't make any sense Oliver never speaks about her or have some tribute to his own planet, like it's such an easy wink to Superman? Like for a show with the concept of Evil Superman + Bootleg Justice League, why aren't there more genuine winks and touches to comic media?

I will rage about Oliver being purple for years.

I cannot imagine the agony of knowing comic book knowledge and the show just pivoting from stuff they set up in their own show, or even the show point out stuff from the comics lol. Immortal insisting that making himself the ruler of a whole ass dystopia is a good idea, and suicide by Mark is SOMEHOW not the coward's way IS CRAZY. Bro had robots automatically give "power back to the people," but couldn't make them kill him if he wanted it so bad? Also remembering Mark but not Kate? Hundreds of wives are a BLUR but random ass teenager you don't even like STICKS FOR YEARS? No for real istg, Immortal is such a violently dislikable character, how did we ruin lives so long everything you love dies? I feel Immortal and Nolan are similar enough, long living, both Guardians whatever, and both had their "just kill me" moment, but I don't quite care because I don't like his ass? I see memes about how he backed Cecil after he was sure Mark left and it makes me cackle omg.

But Immortal is like??? Bro, Mark has put his life on the line at a mere 17 years old to stop his father from killing people, and tasted other people's brain on his teeth for it. Mark justifiably freaking out after he's basically being continuously tased is NORMAL. Did he escalate though? YEAH? But Cecil escalated right back. And again, funny how you invited yourself back when you wanted to? Didn't tell anybody ANYTHING? Like, shut up challenge.

ALSO: We got more from Rae is crazy. Also Kate, it does not help the argument that you left your teammates thinking you died, while taking a vacation/wedding for who knows how long. CRAZY.

And: Honesty such a good point, who do these mfs pretend they have no choices here? They do. Just don't do that stupid thing.

Viltrumites lore drop made sense too mfs killed off a bunch of all and will actively kill off anyone who has a kid too unlike ya, at some point you're digging your own grave idk. Haunted by anxiety/dread of whether something will happen is exactly I will avoid the comics like the plague. I could not tolerate that suspense!

I can sit there and try and justify everything, Oliver is an alien (true!), compassion and empathy are different things, it would be neat to see an actual portrayal of a character who lacks empathy and must learn to operate with compassion- except if Oliver gave zero fucks about life, why does he give a shit about being a hero? What is his motivation at all for stopping 'bad guys' if he thinks life is worthless/meaningless? It's like every time I try to apply nuance to the situation I'm just left with more questions about why the fuck the situation is that way at all. All surrounded by the singular question, why does he give a single flying fuck about Nolan.

FR ! Like, I get that in some capacity you are Tired, Mark, but quite frankly- most of the time- the world should operate without you operating as a hero. Cecil would arguably dial back on stalking your life if you took a break from heroing (since it is apparently such a fucking burden??) and just focused on your brother. Let guilt build up in him that way! I took a step back because people didn't trust me, but now maybe there were things I could have stopped! What would it have been like for Immortal to have to come to Mark for help with something ??? What if they tried to guilt trip him bc he wasn't helping only for him to snap that helping wasn't making them happy either and now not helping is getting the same result! It's like S1 almost set him up for the whole Superman-esque morality, and then everything after has sort of failed to live up to that. Mark doesn't seem to have a very consistent moral compass, though I can definitely see people arguing his fight with Cecil is an extension of that compass, except the entire thing feels self-sabotagy and perfunctory on Mark's end. If he is desperate for black and white morality after what his dad did, portray it more??? His whole response to what his dad did IS very personal and self-centered and has nothing really to do with right or wrong, he is just determined not to be viewed the same way!

And I get not wanting to be viewed as a murderer! Very understandable! But what are your stances on helping people?? is it truly just guilt ?? Everyone who does anything bad ever should go to prison forever IS a very young concept of justice, and he IS a teenage boy! So where is his breakdown over needing to go to prison! Mark can acknowledge nuance, sometime, so is his moral compass just, if I fight someone they must go to prison bc I am right?? When did he ever have an opinion on right or wrong?? His only stance on anything is apparently, don't kill ppl, which is wild bc pretty much ALL the heroes of this world are shown very offhandedly killing people very casually. (Immortal throwing a man into space in ep1 anyone...) so like. His no kill ideology is very much tied into what his dad did. idk. I can talk myself into circles trying to sort out whatever the fuck is going on there. and then I'm just going in more circles lol

Immortal waiting for the actual threat to be gone before he has an opinion is wild xD And after you shook his hand and acted like you were totally cool w him after the seqid shit too. His consequences shit STILL gets me. Sir. You actively quit heroing bc you felt sad then invited your own ass back. Where was your sense of responsibility then? Your concept of CONSEQUENCES? You're allowed to take yourself off the board, potentially contributing to the death of countless civilians since this world apparently can't do shit unless there's at least one superman-figure present, but no one can call you out for that? If it is such a damn honor and privilege to be a Guardian why are you walking away from it?

Nolan having zero social concept of interacting with people in a 'I am not here to rule you way' arguably makes SOME sort of sense (god I still can't fathom what his thought process was there, like sir, they STILL know where you are, even if you won on Thraxa everything would still suck), but Immortal?? bruh?? you lived how damn long and somehow you came to the conclusion being an authoritarian was good??

But no seriously, I would enjoy Oliver so much more if he was literally a character who did honestly struggle with apathy towards violence, but that’s a coincidence to any Nolan related. He doesn’t know that man whatsoever, let him be his own person, and his own struggles, unique to his specific, interesting, situation! I’d love see a character struggle with empathy AND sympathy, and have to learn! The fact we keep tying him back to Nolan, a person he should not admire, like, or even KNOW is so insane to me. Like you say, the loops you have to go through to justify these decisions only make more questions. It literally feels like they just set it up and didn’t think about what it meant whatsoever, or if they did, are horrible at articulating anything about it. 

AND TRULY. Single parent Mark arc is so FUCKING perfect for this character in so many different ways, HAVE him step back out of guilt and devote his time to doing something he can’t “fail” in, or feels like he can trust himself to do without someone dying, where he doesn’t have to worry about lives and the apparent burden of heroism. It even gives him time to think about if it’s what he really wants! What did he enjoy about it! Did he enjoy anything?

AND TRULY, having immortal try bringing him back or someone NEEDING him would’ve been spectacular!!! I would KILL for Mark to snap about how it feels like helping and not helping still feels like failing. I am stealing this for my own fic plot thank you (have a mark raised Oliver wip on the backburner lol). But having him he naturally frustrated would work wonderfully but the current setup doesn’t make SENSE. I don’t know who our PROTAGONIST IS?????? 

Truly what the fuck is his man’s moral compass. Because nothing seems to hold. He doesn’t like killing, but then he does. He SHOULD feel guilty about anyone dying, he literally freaked out when Angstrum exploded in the lab, the blood got on him, he should have internalized Nolan saying s1e8 battle is his fault, he literally stayed to help rebuild Thraxan’s civilization until they told him to leave with a baby, HE, PREVIOUSLY, IS DEFINED BY GUILT. WHAT HE FEELS HE OWES. WHAT HE FAILS TO DO? And now he just ??? Dismisses someone asking for his help ??? Doesn’t fight hard enough to avoid killing future!Immortal. Can’t even verbalize why killing is wrong other than it’s bad. 

Truly, where is his mental breakdown realizing he need to go to jail or be punished??? Where is Cecil even taking advantage of that guilt ??? AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON HOW MANY HEROES KILL. They do it CASUALLY and OFTEN. It seems like a very accepted notion they will have to kill on the job, but Mark is oblivious to this somehow? Did no one tell him? How does he not know? Why not tell him? Is he in denial? Why not explore this? I’m sure the TT have their OWN kill count because either you murder a villain, or you nearly die, or at least that’s what it looks like when mfs NEARLY DIED ??? The circular thing is again very real because it just leads you back to “what the fuck are these people trying to do? And why are they so bad at it?”, because there is SOMETHING there, that scratches an itch in my brain, but there’s a million other puzzles that don’t make sense. 

Truly Immortal incidentally makes me laugh at how absurd he is. Like HONESTLY who invited you?? What is no one upset he KNEW Kate was alive and said nothing? How is no one furious he could just step away without telling anyone? How is CECIL not pissed the fuck off he’s got an invasion incoming and his heroes are fucking off for weddings on a whim? TRULY, if they set up Superman-like figures are NECESSARY how many people died because he wanted to play house with Kate???? Does Kate still have an extra copy somewhere, I know they argued AFTER Mark and Cecil, but where’s the fury she LEFT? Who’s to say they won’t again? Who do they know one near death mission and Kate’s gone. Immortal too! What secrets are YOU hiding if you can just vanish off the face of the earth to the guardians? And AGAIN. HOW IS CECIL NOT PISSED??????????? Did he know? Did he care? HE SHOULD. Mark should not be the only one under a very tight leash right now. 

Immortal was crazy. How is killing and enslaving people the only way? Just ??? Step down??? You had no problem with vanishing before, why is it now???? Nolan does make sense, I kinda love he doesn’t know what to do here, Allen and Nolan is a dynamic that’s really growing on me, because mf really thought he could endanger two whole planets and then just die about it. Sir, get the fuck up. 

Truly when he did get so good??? What’s the point of how threatening an entire species of colonizers are of Allen and a random lion are actually really great at fighting them? I’m sure the Lion Guy is a comic character that will be elaborated on, but show-only POV, it seems there could be at least a handful of people capable of fighting back no???? OLIVER BECOMING OP AFTER 0.0008 SECONDS PISSED ME OFF. How can we prioritize mark being PATHETICALLY weak and A CHILD being better? Mark wondering how Oliver got so fast made me so angry. Did you ?? Not ?? Open the season by TRAINING ????? WHERE DID THIS GO??? IF MARK has to lose battles, and I’m convinced he doesn’t, at least make the parameters of “losing” MAKE SENSE. WHY IS HE SO WEAK???? 

As a person who fucking LOVES when characters go berserk and lose their shit and feel incredible guilt afterwards, I am being cruelly deprived of such special moments. There are characters who are secretly strong as hell and lose battles, AKA SPIDER-MAN, but it MAKES SENSE because his prioritizing stopping them, not killing them, and there ARE moments in comics where bad guys realize how much he holds back for his OWN MORALITY and back off when needed be. His morality is VERY CLEAR AND RIGID. So those rare moments are FUN. It retroactively makes shit make sense. Spider-Man could rip your jaw off. Fill your lungs with web fluid. Tear off your skin. But he DOESNT, until he’s rarely pushed. MARK COULD BE THE SAME WAY BUT NOOOOO. 

They should show him holding back, like showing him not even flinching or moving his head when being hit? PERFECT. Continue that. Have him get hit and barely react, and have him uneasy about hitting back even, throwing a punch and apologizing after cause it was too strong, him trying and failing, and then have him go actually APESHIT and then wallowing in guilt. Have him even kill by accident. This extra self indulgent but I would LOVE if before Cecil confrontation, Mark used his powers, hit a building and someone had died but Cecil didn’t tell him. Have someone nearly tell him and Cecil shut it down. THEN, when Cecil and Mark argue, Cecil could throw that in his face and see the guilt eat him alive, or Mark starts being in denial!!!! THERE ARE FUN THINGS TO DO HERE THAT WOULD SLAP SO HARD. 

AGAIN HOW THE FUCK DO YOU SHOW HIM TRAINING AND STILL LOSING??????????? I’m gonna scream. 

Oliver. if he was written as a character and not a plot device, he would be interesting! It's funny how this convo made me contextualize something that happens later in the comic and that just made me laugh. Of course, it is a fucked up kind of hypocrisy that the one character tag I have blocked on this site is one of the chars we end up yammering about the most xD it's bc it's frustrating, I guess. and I mostly blocked him so that when I went into the Debbie tag I would actually be able to see Debbie content and not him. so. at least I don't have to look at his face. so go me.

Write it ! go go go! Let him have a work life struggle balance that is more than 'I arbitrarily ran off to do shit when I had already made plans'. Single dad Mark, having to look back at the effort that went into his young life and getting a first hand account of what Art meant when he told Debbie she was stronger than Nolan for what she accomplished with her life.

I also love how the show is trying to remind us that Viltrumites Are Coming, except Mark isn't bringing that up at all, so it's like- sir? maybe? think about that? is that what is on your mind?? can we get a moment where you talk about that being on your mind?? Maybe the reason you don't want Oliver out there is BECAUSE YOU GET THE SHIT BEAT OUT OF YOU WHENEVER VILTRUMITES ARE NEAR and think subjecting your bro to that is bad? maybe we can tie literally any decision you are making into what is currently going on around you??? please ??

Even if you take out alien/animal life- I'm pretty sure every hero has been on screen shown killing people ?? Well, maybe not OG Guardians (sans Immortal) bc they all died before we saw them do much. But. I'm pretty sure they have all killed. (and og GOG were 100% down with killing Nolan if it meant survival) They def did, going up against the Lizard League. That was a life or death scenario, but I feel like they didn't seem a new to the experience??

And going off of alien/animal life- like... Flaxans and sequids, like- anyone (Mark included) caveating around killing them as not really killing is so funny. You just didn't view it as killing! sort of like when your dad was popping ppls heads off on Earth. Can we get that parallel? Have this mofo double down on his no-kill policy bc he has an existential crisis about the definition of life itself! Actually have a chat about what defines godhood in your eyes and the sentience of lifeforms!! Maybe think about something for once!! please.

Like, clearly early era on Earth Nolan wasn't being so dismissive of humanity (at least openly) but like- what the fuck was going through Debbie's head interacting with him? Aliens are a known quantity in the universe, they're just a regular occurrence for her in this world! So are heroes! But clearly heroes still have some reverence around them. What the hell was going through her head when she decided she was alright with being with a guy who would, functionally from her POV, never age? Look, I like the cute cultural mishaps a la the giving her a damn tree, but girl, YOU were okay with marrying a functionally immortal being and that says something about you. How do you define life in the universe ??? Was it an emotional security thing?? a power trip on her end ?? (I think she can have both as a treat lol)

I thought of something else about the GoG break up that annoyed me. Kate saying Rae 'fell apart' when she got injured. 1(one) we literally never see Rae after she gets injured unless she's unconscious, TWO Kate DEFINITELY never saw her after she got injured bc she didn't come back until later! WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT KATE. Also I'm pretty sure the two of you were never shown speaking on screen together before.

And someone should remind Shapesmith it was MARK who saved his ass from getting executed by his own ppl. Not even the other members of GOG who were there, it was MARK who took you and ran off the Martian ship before they could murder you. But yeah, sure bud, say Cecil gave you a race car bed. a man with easily bought loyalties is DEFINITELY the dude I want on the top tier superhero team defending the planet. not to mention how quickly he turned on his own home planet...

Cecil genuinely only caring about what Mark gets up to really shows how weirdly pointless other heroes are in this universe. like. how did anything get done if Mark is somehow your one and only useful asset ???

The biggest retort is 'Mark isn't weak, he's just holding back' and like SURE! Then I NEED to see that struggle of him holding back. Also, given the amount of times he punches ppl without splattering their brains shows me he CAN actually 1 hit KO ppl pretty regularly without issue, he just.. isn't??

Battle Beast is legit what he is on the tin. from the comic, and very much a fan favorite bc he kills stuff. and genuinely has no other trait or depth. He at least isn't around as much as Allen, so his magical can kill viltrumites abilities are slightly less frustrating.

Nolan is so funny to me. Folks can yammer about warrior culture and oh-rah murder supremacy all they want, but he is a man who canonically when left alone for more than 5 minutes gets married and has kids. like. sir. It's so funny to think about that in or out of context. bc apparently Mr. Murder Bot really does just wants babies ?? it just makes his journey towards personal responsibility and actually doing something about the hurt he caused even funnier. im glad you miss your wife sir, but you have two kids you DID NOT need to have running around that you really need to make reparations for, so. maybe think about them, for a minute. death does not equal redemption, though I do get why you think that. will never not be obsessed about what he thought would happen if Debbie DID decide to listen to him at the end of S1. like. the other viltrumties wouldn't give you shit for that??? you were just planning on keeping her on Earth until she died ?? i mean ??? what ???

Outright blocking the character tag is too real, I just sparingly, warily venture out into the tags once in a while, maybe reblog a post or two, and run right back. I hardly trust what majority have to say about things I love, even if it is compelling mediocrity, lol. Especially if a fandom is shipping dominant, it'll piss me off instantly. Which is funnier because usually I get mad about OOC things, but canon is ignoring previous characterizations here, so in one pot and into the other, lol!

Oliver being such a point of discussion anyway is too real, I think he just largely represents the critical lack of thought for who these characters are, or what anything means because of it. The more I think about him, the more questions I have, and the less canon makes sense. Like, basic things like his name. Like, I'm halfway sure Debbie ended up naming him, she comments he doesn't even have a time when Mark comes back with him, SO: and let's assume, ASSUME, culturally Thraxans don't name their kids right out the gate. Assume, 'cause Mark was there for a while to help construction before dipping, and was on the ship for a while before he got home, and that entire goddamn time, ain't nobody give that baby a name? How did Nolan not? Was he already mentally checking our there, or...? Like, Mark was coming back home, during that entire time, he didn't give Oliver a nickname? A name??? Did he just go "hey bro!" or "hey baby!" the entire time? Like, again I have to assume Andressa didn't name him on purpose, because why the fuck wouldn't she name her own goddamn baby, so must be a Thraxans cultural thing don't because OTHERWISE he should have a name from the get-go. Am I crazy, here? Please correct me I'm missing facts the show did point out.

And it's a very small detail, but it's also one that makes me start clawing at the walls.

Because if I am not crazy, it just wraps back around at how glaringly obvious shit isn't explained or explored or outright make sense when you think about it when looking at Oliver, because his very skin color doesn't make any sense. He has 0 of Andressa's traits. HOW. AND DO NOT TELL ME VILTRUMITE GENES ARE BUILT STRONG, NONE OF THESE MFS ARE PURPLE. But I'm gonna stop myself from ranting about points we've already discussed lol, Oliver pisses me off the most concept wise, but he could be so interesting, and they don't. Legit setup single parent Mark and then ??? DON'T. AND FOR WHAT. INSTANT MOMENT FOR MARK TO UNDERSTAND HIS MOM. THINK ABOUT HIS DAD IN A DIFFERENT LENS. REALIZE HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE SAME WAY.

And trust I am writing that, lol. Mark's so fun to write when he's a guilt magnet, I love him. Wish he was still written that way canonically again. I haven't gotten that plot point yet, but I love writing Oliver and a tired, parental Mark. Like, he has no idea if staring at the sun if a thing Thraxan-Viltrumite hybrids can do without hurting themselves, but he'd rather be safe than sorry, so Oliver just shrieks because how dare you stop him from staring at the New Ball of Light in the Sky? Suddenly the childhood memory of Debbie wrestling a mini-cutting board (wooden) out his mouth makes sense.

The show telling us the colonizers are coming while Mark looks like he straight up forgot always floors me. Maybe have him frustrated and worried he's losing fights then? If he can't handle an overgrown centipede, (still a fucking insane writing decision, WHY IS HE SO WEAK ALL THE TIME), how he is gonna handle an army of Nolan's? Why isn't a thing? Because he's gonna make me forget? And truly, why doesn't Mark emphasize how scared he is for Oliver??? Why doesn't he feel an extra responsibility to get GOOD when there's another life on the line, and one that's happy to run himself into danger?

Truly, Mark's inability to see that kind of killing as killing could be a great thing to explore here! Heck, could've had Cecil bring that up during their whole confrontation! Because why isn't that considered killing, too? I am always asking where is Mark's needed mental breakdown over all for this, let him have one and rationalize this decisions for his own sanity, and boom, morality flexible arc! Now the blue and black fit makes sense!

And honestly YEAH? I would love to fucking know what was going on Debbie's head knowing this is what she's going to date. A functionally immortal, super powered being, who just won't age to you. How does she view that? She should have both as a treat, omg. I fucking love that. Also would love if she had a lower tolerance for bullshit moving forward after Nolan's fuckery. Cecil? Verbally aiming for the throat, she boldly talked to a man who could kill her, after knowing he had killed the Guardians, let her get even bolder. Talked about this before, but let her be fearless as shit, too, how often does your tolerance for danger or sense of it diminish in this kind of life? Heck, what if she's constantly traveling, something she clearly enjoyed and refused to let Nolan ruin for her, though simply flying over plane flying is gotta be annoying. But heck, maybe she and Olga does that together. Would also give reason for Oliver to be Mark's responsibility, and potential angst on Mark's end because he misses his mom but also won't allow himself to bother her? IDK. SOMETHING. Something that can ping-pong off everybody!

That's a new fucking detail that's gonna piss me off, too now, omg. Because seriously, we don't get to see that, so unless Kate was spying on her as during her own private recover, which HOW, HOWWWWWWWW, then what the fuck is she talking about. Like what. They should've gone HAM on both Kate and Immortal for leaving and boldly coming back when they wanted to, again, much like Rudy, where's the trust here? And yes, yes, they broke up the team, but where's the hostility form the get-go? I FORGOT ABOUT THAT WITH SHAPESMITH?? And truly bro can be bought so easily? Like, sure. What a crucial part of team.

Battle Beast is fun to me, he's like a fight-happy, furry Jasper in my eyes <3 Mark's weakness will always PISS ME THE FUCK OFF. It makes no sense. Any excuse is NEVER shown or depicted well to explain this bullshit. If I had the animating skills I'd do re-write, storyboards of how fights should have gone istg. ALSO YEAH? Nolan, when have 0 supervision, settled down and had a kid. TWICE. But also him ready to die BOTH times despite having two whole kids HE decided to endanger is always crazy. Bro get up and go be a parent. Also true??? Would he just beg to keep her??? Do Viltrumites get like take-home anything? Or did he truly not think anything through which is def possible, but also hilarious in the most absurd way.

The show might have brought it up (I think Mark asks his name and Andressa explains what's up), but the comic definitely mentions that Thraxans pick their own names once they're older, but due to his aging being slowed down via Thraxan standards, he just isn't capable of doing it. and this is told to Mark. so like. I could see him upholding that, but also, maybe tell your mom that??? so that she can respect the culture the kid is from ??? you are literally her only touchstone on what he might need/experience and you ... don't mention anything ???

Nolan just going w what Andressa would have wanted in the situation is understandable since he has no thoughts re: childcare. Though again I will once again bring up the compelling strangeness of Mark having the same name as Black Samson. bc. what happened there. I do full on have a fic that I'll get around to eventually where a small part of it is that Nolan wanted to name Mark Marcus Aurelius bc the show gave him that military hard on for Rome xD and Debbie had to be like well we have a good friend named Markus so- let's go with that.

Viltrumites having such 'strong' and dominant genes is truly a horrendous bane of trying to discuss certain things. 'you're a pure viltrumite bc humans and viltrumties are so magically compatible I wipe out everything human about you!' NO stupid. dumb. awful. not to mention after Oliver came up in the comics I full on had to listen to someone say, after looking at that kid, 'does that mean Mark is going to stop being Asian as some point?' and it's like. if you followed the logic on the comics, yeah, he would. But then the text would have to acknowledge the insanity and fucking racism in their 'eugenics are right actually' nazi species they decided to spit out. and like. aren't you telling a whole ass story about how that ISN'T the correct line of thinking ??? WHY are you doing this. why. not to mention even not accounting for dominant genes you don't get ALL your genetic material from one parent. ffs

Typically I don't bother with going into show or characters tags either. I think pretty much most people I've consistently interacted w about this fandom I initially interacted w on AO3 first xD I just poked my nose out to find one or two people to follow so I could tap a vein to make sure a little of it would trickle across my dash, but I stay out of the big stuff. And honestly, I've not heard great things about the wider community so. I'm cool in my corner.

God the amount of filtering I do on AO3 for this fandom is truly insane. I think this is the smallest, and yet most heavily filtered fandom I have ever interacted with bc so much of the stuff produced for it I am just not interested in. it's like, YAY we're finally over 700 stories tagged! and then I filter them down and it's back to maybe 300 I've already looked at. there's clearly a 20 year old unhinged community for it, but I don't know what they're doing with their time lol

Hell, I like shipping stuff but I knew the moment my brain latched on to a middle aged woman that the shit I would want to see was never going to be a majority even among ppl who write shipping stuff. Tho honestly there is more stuff for Debbie than expected, so I guess there are enough people who appreciate her- it's still just.... such a tiny pool. I legit thought a 20 year old comic would have more fan content for it. apparently not.

Debbie's willingness to GO TO GDA HEADQUARTERS to yell at Cecil specifically, the fact she has 0 qualms about standing up to Nolan and THROWING HIM OUT OF THE HOUSE (I mean there was a lot going on in that moment but she did that!! she did that!) is like. this woman clearly has 0 concept of bad things happening to her, or at the very least, doesn't care if they do. I've mentioned it before but she really is the embodiment of 'anything could kill me. you aren't special'. I NEED more of her being wildly reckless. it's like, I don't necessarily view her as a 'I poke hornets nests for the lulz' but she is definitely someone that when a threat walks up to her she's like ??? bitch move.

God. now I'm thinking about Levy coming after her, but Oliver isn't there, and since this Clear Threat is targeting her son and she doesn't have a toddler to manage the safety of, just full on losses it on him. you want me to call my son ?? -bashes Levy's brain in with her cellphone- this woman is UNHINGED.

Her and Olga becoming travel buddies is such a fun idea. I also like the thought of her traveling being a pre-Nolan trait as much as it was a convenience thing when he was around! it all comes back around to letting this woman have interests.

I should practice storyboarding more. honestly I have a lot of fun just doing straight ahead animation experimentally and just seeing what happens without thinking too hard on things. which is fun in some aspects, not great on others. I think I tend to thumbnail and just go 'yeah this is enough information to go off of' and then sort of just make up what I need from there even in things with more specific intent lol But I can barely write off a coherent planned outline, so like, no surprise there. its why so much of the art I post is sketches. Its hard to focus for more intent/detailed pieces. you want me to think about the key poses ??? ugh. lol

Nolan actively choosing to endanger Mark (AND kid no2) is never not going to come up when I write lol I think I have multiple fic at this point where I straight up have Mark be like 'does dad love the other kid more than me bc he put me in harms way to protect them??' Like let your feelings on inadequacy boil even more!! let him resent the little fucker a bit xD

It's sort of subverted with the viltrumties somehow magically knowing about Amber and where to find her and Mark (??? HOW) so arguably they magically could have figured it out- but I genuinely think that the idea of Nolan actually living with Debbie would be so anathema to them. like yeah, maybe he got gross and fucked a human but he wouldn't LIVE with one, right guys ?? haha right ?? so you could def go for the 'prize' thing, and Nolan arguably thought he could convince ppl to let him keep her, but I think it's funnier if it is just so far out of what they perceive to be typical behavior that they wouldn't even know how to deal with the request if it came up. he gets her onboard bc they just don't have any idea how to deal with the situation. lol 'technically the rules don't say he CAN'T do it... but it seems wrong??'

Nolan: a spaceship is like an RV!

Okay, glad that's just something I straight up forgot, and was addressed / explained at some point. Though, yeah, Mark is truly the only one who knows about the culture Oliver comes from, and I feel like they don't really mention that component? I also wonder how Andressa feels about that, important cultural points that might not be upheld 'cause he's not there, with her. I know she's the one who decides Oliver should go with Mark, she's already old asf when they leave, but I'm so curious about what Oliver actually knows in terms of what the show could address, excluding him somehow remembering everything. Like does he miss it then? Or was is too brief to mourn? Why not add something about his home in his suit, now I think about it honestly?

Personally, again, I would legit enjoy if Oliver was a justified brat if Mark was legit spoiling him, lol, let him be a menace but make it make sense. But, yeah, Nolan not really giving a fuck on the whole childcare point does make sense, but I'm endlessly curious about Mark spent the whole road trip back with a baby. Was it only long enough for a couple diaper changes? What about feeding, bathing, nap times, play time, story time, crawling, walking, talking, etc. Like, I am writing a whole fic/possible one shot exploration dedicated to single parent!Mark, I WILL make "Mark Grayson | Invincible is Oliver Grayson's Parent" a real tag, even if I have to DO IT MYSELF ISTG. It's so interestinggggg ughhhhhhhhh. Loathe how accurate the fanfic chart truly is, sometimes.

AND YEAH? Mark's name is such a casual mystery of what the fuck happened there and we will ever elaborate on that? Looking forward to your fic digging into it that! It's one the same line as Mark casually mentioning Darkwing attended a birthday party (12th) to me, like what does that MEAN????? HOW CLOSE WERE YA'LL? DID IT STOP? EXPLAIN! There is a story here and why won't y'all speak on it????? EXPLAINNNNNN.

Don't get me started on that nazi eugenics bullshit of having super strong DNA actually! Like, what the fuck. It truly is DUMB and AWFUL. Every time it's mentioned I just assumed it's some Vitrumite propaganda, and that if any child doesn't develop the strong powers, each and every one, they'd kill them or something. Something idk??? To explain where they even get the concept from? Like one of those lies were they will literally try to distort reality to ensure it's true. If you don't get the powers you're seen as defective and killed or something??? Something to explain why the notion is seen as truth when it doesn't make sense. Like, you can say the powers are dominant so they're very likely to be passed on, but calling to so absolute and all consuming, someone can GENUINELY question if our protag will stop being Asian is so fucking insane. Like, seriously, I'm not a genetics expert but I know when I hear some bullshit, hello? Unless there's some secret lore, here, or Viltrumites secretly produce asexually, ain't no fucking way.

Honestly an incredible way of finding mutuals lol! I haven't heard good things about the larger fandom either, on the rare occasion I'll see anything elsewhere it tends to be either funny lately (Immortal mockery, my favorite) or piss me off so badly I'll start blocking people. I've seen some truly rancid takes, and don't let them insult my fav miserable blorbo, Mark Grayson, blocked! Even in shows I enjoy I stay out of big conversations and fandom. Not taking the risk.

The filtering is so real. I randomly check out Mark's tag only to get spammed by unhinged smut or insane crossovers, like, okay never mind! I'd just like some fics about my boy, please. Please? The confusion for such a long standing community but little fics when filtered is too real. Istg Batman has been around since 1940s (1939 if you wanna be a nerd like me lol), but the amount of fics about him, not smutty or shippy, with correct characterization is shockingly little for how long he's been around. Fandom stop writing my fav OOC and as abusive challenge! FAIL. But that's a rant for another day.

Truly, Debbie is certifiably, undeniably BUILT DIFFERENT. Fearing for her alive, or taking into account things can kill her is for losers, apparently, if anything can kill her, nothing is special to do so, and she clearly does what she likes. Very much agree. It's not a thrill seeker, fuck if I die kind of mindset, but a casually reckless thing. Will yell/scream/threaten/demand anybody and anything because what's gonna happen? She dies? Whatever. Kind of unflinching gaze staring down the barrel of a gun kind of beat. Yearnful sigh, wish this was explored. Tho reminds me of an idea I was playing with to explain some of her idgaf towards danger was if she has a curse in her own family, and just couldn't stay dead. Funnier if Debbie lied to Nolan about it if he ever saw her nearly die and then just got back up. Gaslight him. Either you didn't see this, or you did, but other people can do this, but they choose to die. I don't. What are you, a human expert? I don't think so. Nolan doesn't know enough about humanity to dispute this, exactly.

OMG YES. LET DEBBIE GO WILD. The euphoria in seeing go apeshit and truly bash someone's head in with glass bottles, a phone, something would be incredible. I'm sure she's got some pent up anger from Nolan, and some stranger breaking into her goddamn house and dares demand her son? This would be even more incredible if in contrast, Mark is taking Oliver out to the park or something lol. Just serene casual moment, maybe Rex or Eve's meeting Oliver for the very first time, and cut back to Debbie in a deathly serious action scene of beating this guy's ass. Bonus, if Cecil + GDA squad show up by the time she's done, and she states how she doesn't need him. GIVE HER SOMETHING PLEASE. And yeah! Let both of them be travel buddies! Let her have some interests. Swinging it back to something you mentioned, let her be the well traveled, well connected, multilingual mystery at parties! Where hasn't she been?

Key poses sound like such a nightmare. Like, animation in general sounds tedious as hell, truly, I'm sticking to my daydreams lol.

Honestly keep doing that shit. It's still so insane to me he decided to have two whole kids and then bail on BOTH OF THEM??? HELLO?? And not only bailing, but actively endangering. Kinda love Mark resenting that so much, like why is he pointedly put in danger multiple times??? Truly, why is his first instinct to have a baby? I'll be surprised if he doesn't find or have a third istg. CALM DOWN. Parenting license suspended but show for the two you have.

The show full on having him talk about Nolan but NOT Andressa is wild. let this kid talk about his mom ??? fuck. why is he so obsessed with preserving Nolan's legacy and not HERS. gah. your dad is still alive and causing problems. the person you should be helping be remembered is the one you have already clearly forgotten existed or even cared about at all. narrative stop leaning into how much a plot device thraxa was, I beg.

one of the ways I wanted to kill Oliver in a story was on the way back ! bc if that kid grows SO fast he would need SO Much caloric intake, and while thraxans Do grow quick they arguably have the correct physiology and diet for it (or maybe they have a high infant mortality rate... and quite frankly for ppl who live so short a life they HAVE to pump out kids fast or their species would be devastated QUICK) and just the idea that he sleeps a lot and starved to death growing in his sleep while Mark tried to take care of a baby with some INSANE requirements that he just doesn't know about would have been fun. I mean, was he spending any time w the kid while he was on Thraxa or was he just rebuilding the city ?? how much child care was he doing pre trip home?? doesn't sound like any if he only talks about the space ship trip as when he was changing diapers !! you are 18 and clearly never spent time w an infant before Mark, let alone an alien one. there are so many ways for that to go wrong without Oliver's own biology potentially killing him.

FULL ON. I want to give the viltrumite culture so much more depth than we are given to it. and the idea that they kill everyone born without powers and pretend like the powers are the normal thing is something I plan to play w !! great minds : ) you cannot give me a species that lives SO long and are somehow SO dumb without there being some very intense cultural mores forcing them to do some stupid shit and them just living in some bubble where they haven't interacted w literally anyone else in so long they have atrophied their capacity for critical thinking.

Yeah that man needs to be put on hold so he can't have more kids. like sir I'm glad you miss your wife and all, but you literally JUST abandoned a different wife and two kids. love that you can acknowledge guilt and regret now !! maybe dont die so you can help keep the two people you made stay alive ??? since you making them instantly put them in mortal peril ??? maybe instead of thinking of the one person who chose to be around you think about the people who are forced into your influence by your poor ability to family plan ???

You can go on a Batman rant : ) as a treat for yourself : ) (do it)

Normally I can at least get by on ship content in a fandom, but I can't imagine the struggle of just wanting to see a fucking character study and having to wade through everything else. and the rise of x reader stuff the past few years has made even finding fucking ship content a damn nightmare tbh. is it just because it's a comic/show that there are SO MANY mega crossovers in this fandom ?? I just ??? why are there SO many of them ??? i know comparing a small fandom to the mcu is an impossible move, but even the chonky boi fandoms don't have such a high crossover ratio, surely ?? at least they're crossing over with their own universe/content. Is there really THAT much of an anime crossover fanbase with Invincible ???

Debbie being some weird loophole kind of immortal and just not bringing it up would be so fucking funny. if you do more with that you know I'll be there lol

AND IM SAYING??? Like NO mention of his MOM? Like hello? Boy why do you think you’re purple???? I’d even take animosity from him, like does he feel abandoned by the BOTH of them? Does he accept Nolan as jailed as justification, or does he hate him for putting his original home at risk? Does he loathe his mom for her decision, barely anything to remember her by? Does he even loathe he’s not human and can’t experience time the same? Can’t go to school? And ofc whatever the whole Forever Memory thing, but that’s still very little to see? I’m so curious how baby memory works, like isn’t that still developing at that age, much like sight? Or is this more hand-wavey???

Like on reflection, I do love the idea of Thraxans, it really does give the Mark the opportunity to conceptualize life spans and time on his Dad’s perspective, because their lives are SO much shorter! Like what does Mark do with that? What does it feel like to see Andressa age so quickly? Does it make him sympathize or double down, rejecting Nolan’s thinking even more? This is great opportunity for some push and pull, or have Mark sympathize with his Dad!!! Like that’s his Dad! He’s clearly NOT that angry with him, so go even further I BEG. DO SOMETHING WITH THIS EVEN IF MARK COMES TO WRONG CONCLUSIONS. Debbie is not there to remind him, hey ur human too, soooooooo??!

LIKE WHY DON'T EXPLORE THIS, IM CRYINGGGGG.

Also so true??? If he grows up that fast, how much does he need to eat and sleep??? How much time would he spent sleeping before his aging slowed down? Like the horror of him starving to death in his sleep is such a good moment/risk for Mark to try and combat!!! Like FULL DRIVE doing his BEST to keep this child alive, and fuck it, let him project too, like clearly he sees how easily Nolan can kill things, the Vitrum Empire knows how to destroy, does that ADD with his persistence to keep Oliver alive besides the trauma of Another Person Dying? Also what if they ran out of food if he needs SO much energy????

ALSO EXACTLY MY QUESTIONS. I’d ask a friend who guessed Mark was traveling back with Oliver for a week, but that’s still a ENTIRE WEEK, of 24/7 baby care??? Did Andressa prep him to take care of her child? Did she know about Debbbie and assume she step up, or just throw caution to the wind and leave Oliver in Mark’s hands? Did SHE see the non-Thraxan traits in her baby besides the aging and panic, like oh shit I can do this fr? Besides Oliver’s biologically killing him, which amazing concept truly, utterly horrifying, but what if he pushes through Constant Starving to Death While Sleeping age of his life, and he STAYS basically chronically ill, still strong even, but like a glass canon? Does he come bitter and angry about this? Like COME ONNN THIS IS SO INTERESTING.

Also again, what the fuck was Mark doing. Changing diapers is baby care basics??? They need so much attention, like bro, bathing, sleeping, eating, playing, tummy time, talking, contact and affection, it is a DAILY ordeal of needs for a creature solely dependent on you. Also a question, like, how do they know Oliver can eat the same thing, he might’ve had on his original planet/while traveling? Does human baby formula work or any baby foods? Does he have any allergies? Are they making baby food from scratch based on guesswork of his diet? HES NOT HUMAN. And he’s a hybrid!!!! I was mid-way through writing single parent mark exploration and just froze like ??? Do they have earth equivalent foods? Nutrients? Does he need pills/gummies? Do vaccines work for aliens? Is their immune system different?

Also, like, does he need things or have different stages of development? Like, probably not adding it into my fic like I want to, but there’s species of spider that carry their young on their back, what if Oliver needs to be held all the time, what if there’s a tonsil removal/baby teeth gimmick Stage for his hybrid biology they don’t know about? Does he need help shedding skin? What if his eyes just fall out and grow back. What then.

EVERYDAY I BEG FOR VILTRUM CULTURE. And hehe, loving the same brain thing, great minds truly, haha! There HAS to be some cultish bullshit they follow to make their mentality make sense, there HAS TO BE. Full on, kill babies/children with no powers, AND they don’t tolerate children that don’t look like them. Gimme fucked up aspects and Vitrum propaganda. AND TRULY! None of these mfs are going to criticize their culture or thinking, so show me what other bullshit they think!!! Like they feel like the type to not believe in vaccines, and if you die you deserve it or something equally insane.

But Nolan on LOCK DOWN LMAO. Not a single more child outta you SIR. The way he puts them in mortal peril BACK TO BACK is so insane to me, like what the fuck, you didn’t have to just risk one planet, BUT TWO? Like if you didn’t leave Earth, they wouldn’t have to even know you wanna quit your job. Critically does not think this shit through and then just feels guilty LIKE MF STAND UP. AINT NOBODY TOKD YOU TO DO ALL THAT.

And, well, if you INSIST on a Batman rant :))))))) Prepare for incoherence and mad rambling.

Okay the thing this, like whatever comic book character that’s existed for ages and stayed popular, there’s going to be some inconsistency with how he’s written, obviously, AND unfortunately. I understand this notion but it drives me UP THE FUCKING WALL comic book AUTHORS will make this man HIT HIS GODDAMN KIDS, or there’s an actual section of the fandom who hate his character (for this in particular, get my pookie/husband’s name out your mouth) or WRITE HIM AS ACTUALLY ABUSIVE or insist Robins are CHILD SOLDIERS LIKE JUST TELL ME YOU DON'T KNOW THESE BITCHES AND JUST WANNA MAKE A VILLAIN WHEN THERE'S ACTUAL VILLAINS IN THE MEDIAAAA. Don't make me ILL. Don't get me started on annoying Jason Todd fans. Or “eldest daughter” Dick Grayson bullshit. Or Dick being Damian’s parent like shut uppppppp.

But back to the point, Bruce is A FUNDAMENTALLY kind and hopeful character. The point is he's hopeful in spite of the broody, dark package. He doesn’t WANT the robins to be vigilantes, but they’re all fucking insane BEFORE he got there, and he’s legitimately giving them an IMPORTANT support network, training, resources, so they don’t DIE.

Borrowing a comparison here, it’s like a kid who rlly wants to be a Olympic gymnast, are you gonna let them try breaking their goddamn neck on the asphalt, unsupervised, cause you KNOW they will the minute you turn their back, or are you gonna make that mf SAFE, as a PROFESSIONAL YOURSELF, if they’re gonna INSIST on doing so. Mfs will actually write Batman as an abusive, child-hitting asshole, as if he’d rather die than be cruel to a child like that. Would he be a paranoid asshole because he lacks fundamental communication skills. Yes. There also reasons for that. He’s also an asshole. Like, willingly. He’s also justified in his paranoia in every single way possible. Every single way, I’m not joking. But he’s not an Abuser. Like if you want a villain? Joker. He's right there. He killed Jason. Beat him with a crow bar, guys. Stealing the quote, if your Batman wouldn’t comfort a child, that’s NOT Batman.

Okay, I can legit go on forever, but like CORRECT Batman characters lies in like Batman Brave and the Bold, Batman Animated Series, the New Animated Series, JL Unlimited, etc etc. Live action don’t TOUCH me.

And oh the struggle is so fucking bad. I basically only read your fics, a handful of others, and write my own istg. I look at his tag in desperation. AND SPEAK ON IT? There's so much Reader X Character posts and fics and smut now? Which enjoy yourselves, but it’s bizarre when the ratio is off? Like I remember when Moon Knight aired, and immediately the Reader fics where there before the gif sets or any unhinged posts ??! Like huh??? How did you even get here so FAST?

Okay, I don’t even think it’s a comic/superhero thing cause I’m in spider-man and Batman and what not, and even then, the ratio’s are not this bad ?? Like Danny phantom has a HUGE uptick in crossovers because of a fan comic, but that’s a specific reason and there’s still plenty of writers and artists at work that THAT subsection of crossover kinda branched off into their own community. I truly don’t know what the fuck it is. I’ve been anime spaces too, (windbreaker ily oh my gooood, bucchirigi makes me ill in a way not even invincible does), but there’s still ??? Canon focused creativity at play? Even big fandoms like Bnha ??? I don’t know what’s in the water for this Invincible ????!

It's so funny that half the shit we're bitching about this show not addressing was at least, in passing, somewhat addressed in this last episode. I almost want to say too little too late ?? like the placement of stuff this season is so frustrating to me. and funny in a kinda haha way. Truly my biggest take away from S3 rn is that it is doing wonderfully for it's side characters and giving up anecdotes about the world, and it is failing hard at delivering on any characters I spent the last two seasons caring about. This season just feels like a weird piecemeal stuff is happening !! season.

Oliver finally acknowledges his mother existed ! that he remembers stuff ! Though catch me here sitting going, oh she loved your dad so much did she? Do you have anything to say about your father loving her at all?? no? do you remember how fucking horrified your brother was when he was first introduced to you?? do you even have a concept of why he was so freaked out about your 'wonderful' father having made a new family ?? do you not remember the two months (GENERATIONS in thraxan time) the fucking planet was ruined by his fight with his people ?? the fact there was no back up for you to get taken care of if he was gone ?? that he had no final words for you or your mother?? but she. the female figure in your life. loved him so much, and clearly every woman in Invincible just exists to tell men how special and awesome they are, so why should Oliver have any concept that's different...

Chronically ill Oliver bc his biology is garbo would be neat. Ties back into my 'I wish hybrid Mark came with problems rather than viltrumite photocopy'. Give these kids more issues lol

God. I am still so annoyed about Rex/Rae. 100% new to the show. did not need to happen. And Debbie having to spend every single fucking moment with Paul propping up his fragile fucking ego. like god damn does she never get a break from propping up emotionally fucked up men. what does she get out of this relationship.

And hey ! there are court cases put to go against heroes ! Except somehow there's zero precedence for them and they are just canonically considered above the law. Horrifying. Also I absolutely refuse to believe this is the first time in the history of anything two superpowered beings fucked up a civilian location. How are there no previous court cases about shit like this. Why is everyone acting like this is a new thing. I've brought it up before, but Invincible has a massive case of Protagonist Centered Reality, in that nothing seems to have happened ever until Mark came along.

Thraxa as a concept explaining disparate lifespans IS great ! I give it that ! It is important to conceptualize ! Suicidally depressed man a few months out from ruining the longest relationship he had ever been in did not need to stick his dick in it though. again, I wonder if they show will EVER dive into Nolan's thoughts on the fact he made another kid. Though them aggressively trying to retcon him in being a functional parent would probably make me gag. oh he flew you around the palace humming to you did he ??? it took Mark until he was 8 years old for this bitch to show up for his after school shit. Try and tell me he wasn't singing human/Earth lullabys bc if you try and tell me Viltrumites have them I will laugh at you. Nolan's family on Thraxa always gave me weird 'I am going to recreate what I had on Earth why isn't it the same as it was on Earth' vibes to me re: whatever the fuck Nolan was thinking.

The fact this dude could have just left Thraxa and it would have saved so many lives will never not a be a point I make. It truly was his absence from Earth and his presence on Thraxa that screwed everyone. Admittedly, he didn't reach the headspace of wanting to atone until the gd jail break, but truly Mr I Avoid My Problems could have just waved his arms up and down on an asteroid at least and let the Thraxans live out their fucking lives while he continued to run away.

When people ignore genuine character flaws that could be worked into/around in favor of just stock 'abusive bc mean!' is just bleh. Somehow reminds me of all the 'character A is in abusive relationship until B saves them' fics that were super popular for so long in so many fandoms. Or the typical make the woman a bitch so the guy can be in the gay ship I want shit. Characters can fuck up in ways that are true to character !! I get a degree of projection will always exist when an individual consumes media, so it's just like.. okay.. you have a blanket over this concept bc that's what you see when you look over there. Can you please acknowledge that's a you thing and not a 'correct' thing??

AND I KNOW??? It’s so insane to me, like, okay, so you guys really could’ve this the entire time and just didn’t. Screaming. Even some of the fights were fun!!! Like hello??? Giddy about Powerplex, I fucking love him so much, LIKE FINALLY!! But seriously the timing? Why is it getting good SIX episodes in for an EIGHT episode season??? If we had 25+, that’s still disappointing but that’s whole other thing, but we got EIGHT! We gotta make these count! And truly? I did adore exploration of the WORLD, like yes thank you for introducing the Order, GDA is slow for disasters, Kate and her brother, but also what the fuck Is Up The Graysons? Who the fuck are they anymore? WHO IS DEBBIE? What happened to the Guilty Graysons? My guilt magnet mark? BRING HIM BACK </3

Also truly, can Oliver speak on his Dad living his MOM, like hello??? How can you talk about the snippets you DO remember but not the vague time your brother spent trying to REBUILD your society you stayed within? How about your mother’s fear that she’d die? How about your brother getting beat the fuck up? The destruction of your world? Or how angry your brother was when he KNEW you existed? Do you even understand, retroactively, what you represent to Mark and Debbie? I understand if they don’t tell him, but one Google search if Nolan nearly killing Mark, before LEAVING, spells out he tweaked out, vanished, and THEN you know he had whole new family after, and that’s YOU. That’s gotta be wild to conceptualize no???? ALSO TRULY THATS TWO GENERATIONS AND NO COMMENT ON THAT HUH??? HOW??? HOOOOWW? What is this selective ass memory? OLIVER CAN YOU EVEN COMMENT ON WHO YOUR MOM WAS OUTSIDE OF LOVING YOUR DAD???????

Seriously give these kids some issues! They’re unknown hybrids!!! There gotta be some fuckery going on. I am once again asking for Mark to stop blinking, consciously yarning, and he never outgrew his baby teeth. Better yet, he’s constantly replacing his teeth, they just?? Keep going?? Adult set? No. Set #36. Every year they all fall out and grow back in for one day, and Mark, for YEARS, still isn’t convinced everyone doesn’t have a “Tooth Day” where you writhe in pain and get to eat whatever you want after for being so brave to brace that. William keeps telling him that isn’t real. Mark keeps telling him to stop gaslighting him. Mark has also never been to the dentist.

Or, I think Debbie made Nolan take Mark and then Mark was very, very popular because student was staring at his screen, utterly confused, and kept grabbing another professional until the room was crowded. Nolan got annoyed and dragged Mark away. Dammit, I wanna write absurd little snippets of hybrid biology fuckery now, too.

Rex/Rae makes be violently itch for arson. Makes my ass itch. WHY. WHYYYYYYYYY. I DON'T CARE SO VIOLENTLY ALSO EXPLORE CHARACTERS OUT OF ROMANCE OH MY GOOOD. I didn’t even realize she kept soothing Paul but like ???? Can she be her own person challenge —> continuous, world breaking fail!!! Truly what DOES she get out of this relationship? When does she get to be her own person and we explore HER outside of a guy?????? WHENNNNNN.

There also has to be record cases for heroes ain’t no fucking way this is the first time this is happened like hello? What does stuff get invented when Mark sneezes but never a single second before? This, again, CANNOT be the first time this has happened. You’re telling me Immortal and Nolan never got pissy and fought each other? No hero got brainwashed or went on a rampage and destroyed whole cities? No hero went villain and did the same thing BEFORE? You’re telling me, in a world with an established bootleg Justice League that’s been running for YEARSSSSSSSSS, there’s no legal protocol for when a hero is being explicitly used for unwanted destruction from another hostile party? Ain’t no hero event been brainwashed before???

Plus, I am a sucker for brainwashed episodes, and they gotta talk the character outta it, it’s like catnip to me. Also a great way to justify Cecil’s fears if it happens to Mark, just saying COUGH. Another fic idea I am sitting on. There are so many rattling around in my head.

BUT SPEAK ON IT??? Why the fuck are we not REALLY unpacking why the fuck Nolan’s first thought after not dying, was being worshipped as a hero and cheating on his wife. You could have just left. You could go back to earth. Yes, it’s complicated they assuming aren’t together anymore, but BRO HAD A WHOLE NEW CHILD??? Not guilty enough to still be loyal, miss my wife MY ASS. Like, you could have just NOT. Can we know why you decided that was best move? Why you put another planet at risk, cheated, and had an affair baby, WHILE mind you, being treated like a HERO. And then, again, REACHES OUT TO HIS KID, not to really apologize or rectify, but to DRAG him into YET ANOTHER MESS he MADE by CHOICE. Can we UNPACK THAT??? Allen istg lock this man down because with he’s track record he’s gonna get somebody pregnant before he apologized. Truly, what the fuck was this man thinking? Why did he just replicate what he had instead of going back to FIX IT? Which I know emotionally constipated but the decisions he DID take are so wild and the show needs to really say how fucking crazy it is. CAUSE WHY?????

I know exactly what kind of fic you’re talking about and there always so interesting to me, because like, why. I get the appeal, I’m sure I’ve read them, but also like…? Odd. Making the woman a bitch would always drive me up the fucking wall though, like you can just write your goddamn ship without spitting on a whole other character??? Damn???? Also yeah, I want to see a character act in a way that makes SENSE FOR THEM TOO. Batman has plenty of flaws to use, he’s secretive, on a “if you need to know you will” basis, he’s blunt if not asshole-ish in delivery, and he’s been hardened and toughened by having his trust broken and Robins die (and revive) on him. Paranoid. He’s also so fucking controlling. There is plenty to work with, if not making him antagonistic, while still using some elements within canon?

Speak on the that’s a YOU thing and not a CANON thing. Like yes we’re all playing with dolls here, but there’s some solid lore at work and it ain’t never said what you’re saying.

Like, I admittedly do have a fic that’s trying to fight against the Character A is Perfect Saint and is Always Right (also drives me up the fucking wall, because no he fucking isn’t, why are some of these fanfic trope speak in such absolutes?), that thereby paints a character in a more negative light but I’m not making him a fucking asshole outta the blue, I’m looking at what text says, what the text can imply, and using THAT. Exaggerated for comedy, also predictably a batman fic because it’s everything to me, but perhaps the guy (Alfred) who became a guardian to a freshly orphaned child, unsure of where the line is as he’s employed as a butler, and had no plans to BE a guardian to ANY kid (and in some issues left his own), may not be the best parent in the world. Not an abusive nightmare, but understandably overwhelmed. Just a thought.

I don’t agree with Dick taking Robin away from Tim..

Like sure whatever I get that Damien needed something or whatever the fucking reason was blah blah blah… But honestly Tim EARNED robin.

He was the only one trying and willing to keep Bruce going. He kept Bruce from killing himself because he had Tim to take care of. ( I won’t let yall try to convince me that Bruce didn’t like Tim in the early days cuz that’s a bull-faced lie)

He did what Dick WASN’T WILLING TO DO. He stayed by Bruce’s side until he could breathe again.

He was Bruce’s best Robin. The one most like him. They loved each other… Then for them to all believe Bruce was dead and immediately get kicked out of the position he kept alive for a kid that’s been actively trying to kill him is so fucked.

And don’t even try me with the “It wasn’t Bruce’s mantel to give. It was Dicks”

First of all… Bruce didn’t give Tim robin in the first place; that was Alfred… Bruce didn’t want another Robin after Jason.

2nd of all… Dick quit being robin.. yes he was upset about Bruce giving the mantel to Jason but by the time Tim was robin, he was fine.

And 3rd… THERE WOULD BE NO MANTEL TO “GIVE” IF BRUCE DIDN’T TRAIN HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

they are halfway across the world on a case that they’re definitely not supposed to be on

panel redraw for fun/expression practice :p