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Franchises like Stranger Things, Star Wars, and Marvel need to hire a team of people that are huge fans on their media and know it back, front, left, right, up and down.
They need to hire people that have hyper-fixations on their piece of media or the plot holes will just continue to grow, as we’ve been seeing them do so much recently.
Stranger Things? Mistakes and plot holes left and right. Within hours, devoted fans found nearly all of them. With a team of dedicated fans like this actually helping with the show, maybe this wouldn’t have happened.
Star Wars? Whatever happened in the sequels just didn’t make sense. There were moments that defied rules of canon set in place ages ago, and no one on the team noticed or cared.
We need the MatPats, the theorists and the nerds to help make sure that the makers of these franchises actually know what they are doing
I commented on this in Byler Nation, but I like the idea so much I need to reblog it, too. I propose that this practice get adopted industry-wide and we call this position a "chaos duck." Who keeps the authors on track and details in line? The chaos ducks! It seems so appropriate to me, because what you're talking about eliminating is chaos in the storytelling and ducks are masters of finding little bits and nibbling. It's a match made in genius!
@cmadisonsworld had a cool idea for a t-shirt, involving the shot of Will with his eyes just closed and the quote from Robin "I was looking for the answers in somembody else...But I had all the answers" and I loved it.
But I wanted a version I could use with heat sensitive vinyl, which means it had to be posterised into just a few colors. After a lot of fiddling, this is what I've come up with. I'm pretty happy with it, but the true test will be whether I can actually cut it into vinyl.
In case anyone else would like the image, I thought I'd share.
they really shouldve just given holly's plotline to mike.
imagine the chaos of the madwheeler duo running rampant in vecnas mind.
imagine them being forced to see each others worst memories and recognising the real reason they butt heads so often is because they just cant stand how similar they really are.
imagine they fight because theyre still in denial about their similarities because theyre both self hating idiots, and/or they have some sort of disagreement, maybe about how to escape or maybe max confronts him about how he's treated el in the past.
imagine that right as tensions are highest, they stumble into another memory and max finds out that mikes big secret is that hes in love with will. and he expects her to berate him. to yell at him, say she just knew there was something wrong with him, but of course she doesn't. she just hugs him and tells him its okay. and he's so caught off guard that he doesn't even react at first, but then piece by piece he just starts to break down and cry into her shoulder, because its such a relief to finally just admit it to someone, and the fact that max, someone who isnt very fond of him on a good day, still accepts him honestly just makes her the perfect person to admit it to.
imagine she opens up to him about how it wasn't the music that saved her at all, it was her connection, her love for lucas, and that if he wants to escape he has to accept the same thing for himself. he has to realize what love really tethers him to this world.
Wow, that would make an AWESOME fanfic! I love that storyline idea more than any other new idea I've read on Tumblr since S5 self-immolated. If anyone writes a fic with this, PLEASE tag me so I can read it. I WILL comment; I promise!
i think about byler in a way that’s less “shipping discourse” and more the quiet grief of watching a genuinely groundbreaking narrative slip through the cracks. it’s that particular ache you only get when you understand the craft, when you can see the scaffolding, the emotional architecture, the cinematographic cues, all pointing toward a story that was ready to mean something. not just to fans, but to the medium.
finn and noah had the kind of chemistry you don’t teach. it’s the sort of on screen connection that directors build entire seasons around, the kind that lets you hold a shot a beat longer because the actors can carry the silence. their scenes already had that charged stillness, that soft, trembling intimacy that cinematographers dream of capturing. the camera loved them, not in a flashy way, but in that quiet, instinctive way where the frame leans in because it knows something is happening.
and maybe that’s why it hurts so much. because from a craft perspective, they were positioned to break boundaries in a genre that desperately needed it. they could have shifted the emotional centre of the story, not through shock value, but through honesty. through the kind of queer tenderness that rarely gets to exist in mainstream sci‑fi without being coded, sidelined, or softened into metaphor.
there was magic there, real, cinematic magic. the kind you recognise instantly when you’ve studied this stuff, when you’ve spent years analysing how performance, blocking, colour, and subtext braid together to create meaning. it was all right there, humming under the surface, waiting for someone in the writers’ room to trust what the camera was already telling us.
and the saddest part is knowing that potential doesn’t disappear just because it went unused. it lingers. it becomes a ghost of the story we could have had. a reminder of how rare it is to see chemistry like that, and how easily it can be left on the cutting room floor.
While I'm not in the craft, so I can't speak to all the details, I definitely agree with everything here. Even as a layperson, so to speak, I can tell that their chemistry was off the charts special. And I feel the tragedy of the loss at 3 levels: the loss of my beloved ship, the loss of the groundbreaking shift, and the loss of amazing representation.
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Please read the AO3 fic The Byler Files by Elephantshoe. It's my all time favourite Byler fic and a balm for your bruised soul! SO, so, so good.
This is for all of y'all who are still bruised by what the queerbait bros did to our lovely story and need a long story that honours Byler & the characters they created.
All of the details, including TW:
Summary & gushing
This is a series of sequential stories that comprises 2 completed volumes, a third currently being written, and an associated short story. Volume 1 picks up right where S4 left off and the rest continue the story from there. The author has said that they have a volume 4 outlined and ideas for a volume 5, so there may be much more to come, too! Because it was written pre-S5, the story is only canon up to the end of S4, although several elements the author extrapolated match what the actual writers used (before the disaster that was S5v2 & 3).
Even given that it's unfinished, this is my absolute top favourite Byler fic of all time. It's written as a closet drama, meaning that it looks like a script but is written to be read, not acted. Of all the fics I've read, this one is the most canon compliant and keeps the characters voices & actions as close to canon possible.
The adventure does not match what S5 offered. It takes us on a parallel adventure that feels like it totally could have been filmed as canon. The level of drama, angst, terror, banter, weirdness, science and so much more are absolutely reflective of the series as I've loved it. I feel like this is my actual canon for ST.
In addition to seeing our boys at a Pride event (yes, that IS reasonable for the location and timeframe! the author did their research) and Mike as a songwriter, we get one of the hottest descriptions of a kiss I've read in all Byler fiction (in v3!). I can't tell you enough how much I love this fic!!!!
Volume Summary
Volume 1 takes us from the end of S4 through Byler coming together. Fairly short, very fluffy, and we get a bit of all the party. Nothing beyond Byler is resolved, so the UD, Vecna, etc. are still looming.
Volume 2 picks right up after that with the boys learning to deal with being in love. Bigotry, homophobia, practical matters, and much more. Of course, the rest of the story doesn't sit still so there's a lot going on all around!
Volume 3 picks up where v2 leaves us, with the party and the wider cast having to deal more with the supernatural elements. The action really picks up in this one. Unfinished, with updates happening sporadically. It makes my day every time this is updated!
Hold my Heart (and watch it burn) is a short story set during the Christmas holiday in S4. We get to see the boys really pining for each other. A really fun prequel.
Appendices include all of the letters Mike wrote to Will as well as the song lyrics for all the songs Mike wrote and performs in the story. Some of these are just amazing(!) and all of them are fun reading that help flesh out the world and the story.
Warnings
Because they're older teen boys, this does include sex starting in volume 2. It's mostly off screen and implied but a couple more explicit moments. It's very tasteful and personally I don't think it's very realistic to write boys in love at this age who aren't thinking about and experimenting a bit with sex.
Trigger warnings overall include: mature language; implied and explicit homophobia; teen sexual activity; bullying; discussions of hate crimes and hate groups; discussion around suicidal ideation; attempted murder; attempted human sacrifice; gun violence; and general horror elements.
Be sure to read the warning tags for each chapter if there are specific triggers you are sensitive to. Keep safe, readers!
Links
The author's list of works, including all of the links below
Prequel: Hold my Heart (and watch it burn): a byler files Christmas story
as someone with a tv/film background, it honestly baffles me that people can look at mike and el and still insist they’re meant to be endgame without recognising that this is conformity speaking. mike and el has always been a relationship built on expectation, heteronormative defaulting, the “boy saves girl” narrative, the pressure to perform a first love rather than question whether it’s emotionally real. both characters are following a script they were handed, not one they actually chose.
and if conformitygate is true, if the show is deliberately exposing the ways these kids were boxed into roles they never consented to, then mike and el becomes the clearest example of that imposed narrative. it’s why the kiss and els speech in the finale feel so visually and emotionally wrong. the scene doesn’t look right, it doesn’t sound right, because the cinematic language is rejecting the text. the blocking, the framing, the performances all communicate discomfort and dissonance, while the dialogue tries to force a romantic beat the story itself is pushing against.
by contrast, byler as endgame actually breaks the conformity the narrative keeps interrogating. it aligns with the show’s thematic arc: dismantling imposed identities, rejecting prescriptive roles, and choosing emotional truth over expectation. if conformitygate is real, then byler isn’t just a ship, it’s the narrative’s release valve. it’s the story choosing authenticity over performance.
which is exactly why mike and el can’t be the final destination. a narrative about breaking cycles cannot end with its characters collapsing back into the most conventional, socially conditioned version of themselves.
"This isn't like one of your campaigns. You don't get to write the ending."
Except the Duffers do.
This line in the trailer has me more convinced than ever that this entire show is an allegory for the horrors of growing up as a gay boy* in a small conservative town in the 80's. And that the entire reason the Duffers created it was to rewrite a happier ending for all the people who suffered and died because of it – because of this hostile environment that so unfairly isolated, mistreated, oppressed and condemned them for no other reason than who they loved.
At the end of the final episode, I believe they will have a dedication stating exactly that. That the show is a love letter – a rewrite – for all the victims of the AIDS crisis, of conversion therapy, of suicide due to bullying and isolation, of gay mistreatment, forced conformity, neglect and abuse. Through Mike and Will, all those people can be heroes instead of victims. They can finally have the happily-ever-after they never got to have in this world. And through this show, they will live forever.
Forever is their today. ❤️
*I say "boy" specifically because of the AIDS crisis and how much more it affected the male population, and because of how rigid gender roles insisted boys weren't allowed to be sensitive or share their feelings, leading to repression and emotional trauma, often with severe consequences. And because of "Boys only" and "A day free of girls."
Welp. Looks like I had WAY too much faith in these shortsighted hacks who don't have anywhere near the scope of vision I accredited to them.
This show could have been something infinitely more amazing, more beautiful and meaningful than what it turned out to be. It could have been life-saving. World-changing, but they chose the predictable status quo path of their predecessors. And crushed us without a single care in the process.
They DID get to write the ending, and instead of celebrating and uplifting the outcasts the way they claimed to, this is what they chose for their beloved characters:
-a tortured and traumatized sensitive gay boy learns the painful lesson that he can't always get what he wants, no matter how much he deserves it – a lesson he's already had drilled into him countless times over. And why did he need to learn this AGAIN? I'm sorry, for... *checks notes* realism?
-a cementing of the belief that not being shunned by his loved ones for being himself is the best outcome he can hope for. Because his right to love is seen as less important, so he shouldn't dare believe his "straight" friend could ever love him back the same way. Because in a story about monsters and alternate dimensions, THAT would be unrealistic.
-a tormented girl held in captivity most of her life for the benefit of self-serving men is never given real agency over her own future and must sacrifice herself for the sake of others.
-an imagined life of secluded exile away from the only loved ones she's ever known is dressed up as a beautiful and hopeful alternative possibility for her ending.
-a wonderfully weird and spirited boy is forced to conform with societal expectations rather than be encouraged to explore his true self and finally experience how it feels to say I Love You and mean it.
-the main ship of the show, after struggling for years to really understand each other, is never shown to really understand each other. We can't even tell if they're still a couple until they ultimately have, in the eleventh hour, what has to be the most excruciatingly awkward and uncomfortable kiss ever afflicted upon any viewership. And we're supposed to believe this is true love? When he STILL can't say the one thing she's ever asked of him, even when he knows she's about to give up her own life to save a world that was never hers.
-no big plot twists, no subversion of expectations, no departure from the traditional mediocre big-budget action films they chose to emulate.
THIS was their great vision?
The real world is tragic enough. Fantasy storytelling is for the purpose of imagining something BETTER and giving it life, giving it wings. Sure, make it angsty and exciting along the way, but bring it to a satisfying conclusion that gives us something MORE than what we started with. Not just a snapshot of what we already have. Show us how it feels to fly!
They made us believe they were magic. And then they failed us in every way.
Yep. The show that was billed and sold as the “anthem for the marginalised and imperfect” (quoting Sean Levy) and an “anthem for the outcast” (quoting Stranger Things on youtube), ended up being an anthem for conformity, mediocrity, repression of love, and cowardice. And it wasn’t accidental. They did it on purpose.
We, the Byler community, took what they built and flew with it far further and more beautifully than they did. I won’t credit them directly, since volume 2 and the finale gave us a clear picture of just how poorly they themselves write and choose. But they _were_ responsible for bringing together the people that wrote and built S1 through S5.v1, which gave us such fertile and wonderful ground from which to write our own stories, edits, animations, paintings, and so many other creative works.
I will give them credit for that. For giving us those seasons, for inventing Mike and Will and all their friends, I thank them. For bringing together the wonderful people who built the sets, the costumes, the lighting, who chose and edited the soundtrack, for the outstanding cast who poured their lives into this amazing show, I thank them. For all those amazing, wonderful and gifted people the queerbait brothers brought together to create the best slowburn queer romance ever filmed, I am thankful. To be uber clear I am NOT thankful for volume 2 and the finale and 100% believe the queerbait brothers are horrible people, horrible writers, and deserve repeated and thorough public shaming and NO further support for any efforts they make in any media whatsoever.
We shall take the beautiful thing they built for us and discard the disgusting wrapper they tried to cram it into. We shall build upon the foundation laid for us and create dimensions of our own to explore all the hopeful, angst filled, dramatic, lovely possibility that the queerbait brothers ignored. I refuse to let what they tried to do re-define my love for this story.
I'm guessing people are wondering what derisive name to call the Duffer Brothers. I've heard good candidates:
Dumber Brothers
Bluffer Brothers...
But there's one I'm going to be using. It doesn't quite have a ring to it, but it's so true maybe it'll stick:
THE QUEERBAIT BROTHERS:
===========
EDIT:
DUFFER BAITERS was mentioned in comments, though I'm mulling over BAITER BROTHERS... which definitely has a better ring to it. If people understand what we mean we can use that... though I think saying Queerbait hits them harder!!!!
===========
After all, they've admitted to not intending Byler and never telling their fans despite it being built up for 9 years already, right?
Let THEM be the people pictured on the Wikipedia page for "Queerbait." Let THEM be associated for all time for what they did.
They could've been known for a great story that probably would have overshadowed the many faults of their last season. They could've chosen to out-Sixth Sense the Sixth Sense, have a groundbreaking and moving childhood-friends-to-lovers queer love story, but instead they... did what they did.
Let them have the ignominy that THEY CHOSE and DESERVE.
I was going to call them the duffle bags, but I definitely like The Queerbait Brothers much better. Even without the alliteration, I think it’s so accurate and making it as public as possible is an excellent consequence for their cowardly choice. Well called, Ronald!
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They will never take them away from me idc. they're endgame, and they're going to kiss and date and go to college in the same city and live together and go to Pride and go crazy together
i think what really gets me is they wrote a fucking tragic ending but presented it as a happy one. it seems clear to me they wrote mike as a closeted gay man. even till the very end, there is subtext about mike and about byler. but will ends up in a bar with a random boy and mike ends up alone in his room with the painting from will on the wall. he talks about a story he can never tell and cries putting his binder next to will's. he never said i love you back to his girlfriend before she died. it's fucking tragic, but they couldn't even commit to that. it's wrapped up in looking like a happy ending to everyone but the queer people who devoted our time, love, and attention to their story. we are left devastated in a way nobody else can see, as if that doesn't already happen to queer people enough.
2. Why describe the "signals" as things Mike and Will have done repeatedly throughout the show?
3. What was that exploding pipe in a bathroom named Dick all about?!
4. The snowball became an avalanche and... then what? Global warming?
5. Why could Mike STILL not say I love you to his supposed girlfriend? And why did their relationship feel more platonic than Stonathan (the other "lovebirds") all season? Why did they have ZERO chemistry?
6. So Mike really just was an asshole for two seasons for no reason?
7. Why show Ted crashing through MIKE'S closet, of all places? Mike's CLOSET! Why?!
8. Why was everyone crying at the final table read? Because the story was so bad?
9. Who left all these guns lying around?
10. Why did Jancy and Stancy have more closure than the main characters?
11. What the hell were all those LIP GLANCES?? And the lack of personal space? And the way Mike looked at Will like he hung the moon. And why did Mike look so flustered every time Will was anywhere near him? And the WILL VOICE™?! What was all that?
12. What about the painting lie?
13. What about all of Mike's love confession lies?
14. How could El say Mike always understood her when he was repeatedly shown to not understand her?
15. What was that final shot of Season 4 then, with the "couples" paired together?
16. So Mike really was just his Tammy? Wtf?!
17. Were the Duffers not allowed to tell the story they'd built up? Or are they just queerbaiters and crappy writers?
18. Why focus on Mike and Will looking at each other when Robin made the "I like dick" joke?
19. Why have the album Mike defends as "great" be The Butthole Surfers? Were we not supposed to read into that?
20. What was with the shitty knockoff airport outfit? And having Mike wear camo during the coming out scene? AND THE GIANT TRIANGLE ON HIS SHIRT??? Why?!
21. Why all the queer coding? SO much queer coding...
22. Were we all just going crazy together this whole time?
23. Why go out of their way to repeatedly show us how perfect Mike and Will are for each other, how well they complement each other, understand each other and always give what the other needs... and then go nowhere with it?
24. How did El recognize Will in the science fair photo? When did she see him before?
25. If there was no big Byler or Mileven twist, why not just tell us outright that it wasn't happening? Why all the secrecy? Was the big twist just that Mileven was still together? 'Cause honestly, no one saw that coming.
26. I am not hap-satisfied. Where do I lodge my official complaint?
27. This is just some horrible Vecna vision and really we're all trapped in the pain tree. Right? Right?!
And I'm sure there are tons more... This is all I can think of at the moment.
If this is true, this is INSANE!! But would explain so much!
The choice of having Will say, "Vecna showed me these things," (paraphrased) instead of actually showing us these things is such a bad decision from a writing standpoint. No decent writer would tell a story this way! It made ZERO sense. So either the Duffers suddenly became horrendous writers in the final season... or something fishy is going on here.
Honestly, this whole season has felt a bit off to me. There have definitely been some great moments throughout, but as a whole, it feels very lacking and not up to the standards we would expect.
And this would explain it so well. But it also leaves me feeling very betrayed and disheartened (by Netflix, not the Duffers) because we aren't getting to see the story we've been waiting for. And I'm scared there's not much we can do about it that would make Netflix give a fuck.
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Thinking about how El thinking about Mike and his speech failed to save everyone but Will thinking about Mike SUCCEEDED.
El banks on the thought of Mike to save everyone and hundreds die.
Will banks on the thought of Mike to save them and becomes literally as powerful as VECNA.
[his powers are because of himself, not Mike, decentering is vital!! But either way the contrast is there and it is LOUD. Byler literally saves lives and Mlvn literally kills people 💀. Canonically.]
There are so many bits of evidence that Byler is endgame I’ve actually lost all doubt about it atp. But today, my biggest Byler proof is Finn:
“How is he this clueless right now? What with the Will scene... I remember asking the Duffers, ‘Why…why would he not know all this?’ And they were like, ‘Don't worry, it'll pay off in the end.’”
