Yamcha and Rhea enjoyer>>

Same goes for too many Rheagards, common fanon of them typically involves warping the latter's characterisation (or practically, everything) to being mostly or solely in the former's favour. It's pretty much glaze that varies from feeling like one-sided bias to being exactly that. It can also be said how some discussion on how, unlike with Edelgard love, a lot of supposed Rhea love ends up being backhanded and derogatory that's no different from people who openly hate Rhea, but there's ultimately how this process is another phenomenon that reveals how differently Rhea is viewed and 'tolerated' compared to Edelgard, despite many claims that both of equally hated / defended, or that Rhea somehow receives more grace from the fandom.

I'm gonna be so for real... I don't trust anyone who says they "love" Edelgard and Rhea equally. One is a literal dictator, the other is a genocide survivor. How could you possibly love them the same?

ideally, it's packing your suitcase with everything you need, all neat and tidy with some space to spare even, if you happen to think of something you might need later without any need to reorganize, the suitcase closing easily.

sometimes, problems arise: you didn't get to bring your own suitcase and the one offered to you is too small for everything you need, or perhaps you miscalculated how much space a specific item would take; either way, something's going to be left out. it may be something small and inconsequential (but would have been nice to have), or it may be something super-duper important, the lack of it noticeable afterwards, a decision that may have been a calculated risk, or the first one that came to mind in a rush.

and then there are times where you're just cramming everything into the suitcase haphazardly with very little planning. all the items are the same, but by the time you're done with packing, there's no rhyme or reason to anything, the suitcase is bulging and you're struggling to get it closed while sitting on top of it, the zipper threatening to undo its whole existence given a chance.

it's not pretty. you may see all the ideas the writer had in mind, the potential, the ideal, but the execution leaves you wanting more. the reasons why the suitcase ended in that state vary; it may be lack of time, budget, or skill, or some combination of the three, but regardless of the exact reason, the end result is still lacking.

but your audience will see that potential because good portion of the people know what a nicely packed suitcase looks like, what it should have in it for a nice trip, and they will yearn for it, conjure what ifs in their mind, talk about it openly.

@missymoomoo has talked about this before too but gods their dynamic has so much POTENTIAL?? Like, if any two characters could understand each other's trauma, it would be Rhea and Claude.

Rhea's entire family was slaughtered because they were different; they were dehumanized and used as weapons because people—people whom the Nabateans had helped—wanted power and wanted the best tools to get it. Rhea couldn't realistically villainize Crests or Relics or the Ten Elites, so instead she tried to teach through church doctrines that Crests and Relics were sacred things that shouldn't be abused—probably the closest she could ever get to publicly honoring her family, even as she watched people unknowingly treat her families' blood and bodies like trophies. And now she, Seteth, and Flayn live at Garreg Mach under assumed identities because it's their only sanctuary among the only family they have left, and then they find that even that isn't safe because Flayn gets targeted. They do the best they can while constantly living in fear for their lives.

Just like Claude, who survived multiple assassination attempts before he was 18 simply because he was different. He has to hide who he is in Fódlan for his own safety, but he so badly wants to bridge the gaps instead. I'm convinced that that's why his clothes still have that Almyran influence, especially post-timeskip. The fandom has joked that he's just that unsubtle, but I think that's the point—he's trying, in his own way, to connote to people that Almyra and its culture don't have to be the enemy forever. In spite of the prejudice he's seen from both sides, he chooses to be kind.

And fucking please "yeah that's what bothers me about how the fandom talks about the Nabateans" as if the fandom doesn't mostly just talk about Seteth Hot, Flayn Cute, Rhea Bad, and as if Indech and Macuil are talked about AT ALL by the fandom at large. The entire PROBLEM with the fandom at large is how much it ADAMANTLY REFUSES to talk about precisely what humans have done to the Nabateans.

For the most part, Rhea is just considered a tyrannical crazy bitch for what all she's done; the fact that she LITERALLY SURVIVED A GENOCIDE and doesn't want her remaining family and herself to be in danger of being killed for the power their blood, hearts, and bones give humans (that thing that she LITERALLY SAW HAPPEN BEFORE)? Nope, couldn't have anything to do with anything, she's just an evil tyrant. Those tags are so full of shit omg

The cringe is real. So real.

But forreal - and @randomnameless has gone into it more than I have -

I freakin hate how 3H approaches its big central conflict. Because t... flat out doesn't. It barely involves the Nabateans as a culture, as a part of Fodlan, at all. Rhea and the reveal that dragons were massacred in pursuit of humanity's power / pride is a sidenote to the war drama of "oh woe I have to kill my classmates in a pointless war of Ideals boohoo" even though like - you are using the desecrated remains of a living, thinking individual. People are tethered to their ancestors drinking the blood of murdered beings. The same conflict is arising because someone can't stand there to be green-haired, pointy-eared beings.

We get to see, at least in a brief CG, just how bad the Tragedy of Duscur was and it serves as the central conflict of Dimitri's story. Certain parts of fandom loudly and repeatedly whack everyone else over the head just how traumatic and terrifying and awful Edgelord's experiments were (which - not downplaying them but - ??). A very loud minority uses Duscur as a cudgel to "prove" that Dimitri So, So, So Bad and Faerghus sucks and people deny it because STRAIGHT WHITE MEN!!

But Nabteans? The core original sin of Fodlan? The one that still hides in the corner unspoken, unaccounted for, with no hope of any justice because the entire world has moved on? That horrific massacre?

Nah. They must've deserved it. You can't trust those guys because they aren't human.

It’s not like another game - remove 10 opuses - did the same thing, paiting a “traditional” conflict between a red emperor invading lands and a lord rising to oppose him - only to be stuck with the “bad end” if you don’t complete all of the optional paralogues and discover how the war of lore is actually the main reason why everything happens.

it reminds me of some loser who killed douglas and called it a day

So no, Roy doesn’t save the continent and everything is solved because he rekt’d Zephiel, FE6′s true end is unlocked if you give a frick about the underlaying conflict between humans and dragons and ultimately rescue Idunn, putting an end to the “us vs them” mentality.

In a more subdued tone, we have FE4 - Ghost!Siggy has to remind his son that no, the Red Emperor is only a penultimate boss, and there are other forces at play to get rid of to free Jugdral from their influence - like the brat hunting children for funsies.

In FE16? Nabateans and their secret is only a plotbunny, just like the “Dart is actually Rebecca’s brother!” from FE7. Some people react about it, the box is checked, and then it is has no impact on the rest of the story.

Nabateans can’t even have a battle quote against Nemesis, Claude cannot confront Riegan about how twisted he was to see an entire race as “things to be looted”, nope, nothing, nada. The story of Nabateans might have been the biggest hurdle to his dream of breaking down barriers and believing everyone can trust and understand each other - nabateans did it and they ended up as glorified toothpicks - but nope. 

We don’t care at all.

Even FE8, who doesn’t care a lot about dragons, has more than 1 infodump about the dragons, how they are seen by humans and how they interact with the world. 

In FE16, we have someone screaming “pointy ears” cannot be allowed to have power over “the people”, but we don’t see how those pointy eared creatures see their place in the human society, or how some try to mingle with humans while others simply gave up.

Like, I wonder if the next remake is really going to be about Elibe, because the comparisons with FE16 are going to sting - dragons are part of Elibe’s backstory, but also of Eliwood and Roy’s story, they are not a mere footnote or an infodump - and I don’t think FE16 will be able to get out unscathed from this.

And fucking please "yeah that's what bothers me about how the fandom talks about the Nabateans" as if the fandom doesn't mostly just talk about Seteth Hot, Flayn Cute, Rhea Bad, and as if Indech and Macuil are talked about AT ALL by the fandom at large. The entire PROBLEM with the fandom at large is how much it ADAMANTLY REFUSES to talk about precisely what humans have done to the Nabateans.

For the most part, Rhea is just considered a tyrannical crazy bitch for what all she's done; the fact that she LITERALLY SURVIVED A GENOCIDE and doesn't want her remaining family and herself to be in danger of being killed for the power their blood, hearts, and bones give humans (that thing that she LITERALLY SAW HAPPEN BEFORE)? Nope, couldn't have anything to do with anything, she's just an evil tyrant. Those tags are so full of shit omg

The cringe is real. So real.

But forreal - and @randomnameless has gone into it more than I have -

I freakin hate how 3H approaches its big central conflict. Because t... flat out doesn't. It barely involves the Nabateans as a culture, as a part of Fodlan, at all. Rhea and the reveal that dragons were massacred in pursuit of humanity's power / pride is a sidenote to the war drama of "oh woe I have to kill my classmates in a pointless war of Ideals boohoo" even though like - you are using the desecrated remains of a living, thinking individual. People are tethered to their ancestors drinking the blood of murdered beings. The same conflict is arising because someone can't stand there to be green-haired, pointy-eared beings.

We get to see, at least in a brief CG, just how bad the Tragedy of Duscur was and it serves as the central conflict of Dimitri's story. Certain parts of fandom loudly and repeatedly whack everyone else over the head just how traumatic and terrifying and awful Edgelord's experiments were (which - not downplaying them but - ??). A very loud minority uses Duscur as a cudgel to "prove" that Dimitri So, So, So Bad and Faerghus sucks and people deny it because STRAIGHT WHITE MEN!!

But Nabteans? The core original sin of Fodlan? The one that still hides in the corner unspoken, unaccounted for, with no hope of any justice because the entire world has moved on? That horrific massacre?

Nah. They must've deserved it. You can't trust those guys because they aren't human.

It’s not like another game - remove 10 opuses - did the same thing, paiting a “traditional” conflict between a red emperor invading lands and a lord rising to oppose him - only to be stuck with the “bad end” if you don’t complete all of the optional paralogues and discover how the war of lore is actually the main reason why everything happens.

it reminds me of some loser who killed douglas and called it a day

So no, Roy doesn’t save the continent and everything is solved because he rekt’d Zephiel, FE6′s true end is unlocked if you give a frick about the underlaying conflict between humans and dragons and ultimately rescue Idunn, putting an end to the “us vs them” mentality.

In a more subdued tone, we have FE4 - Ghost!Siggy has to remind his son that no, the Red Emperor is only a penultimate boss, and there are other forces at play to get rid of to free Jugdral from their influence - like the brat hunting children for funsies.

In FE16? Nabateans and their secret is only a plotbunny, just like the “Dart is actually Rebecca’s brother!” from FE7. Some people react about it, the box is checked, and then it is has no impact on the rest of the story.

Nabateans can’t even have a battle quote against Nemesis, Claude cannot confront Riegan about how twisted he was to see an entire race as “things to be looted”, nope, nothing, nada. The story of Nabateans might have been the biggest hurdle to his dream of breaking down barriers and believing everyone can trust and understand each other - nabateans did it and they ended up as glorified toothpicks - but nope. 

We don’t care at all.

Even FE8, who doesn’t care a lot about dragons, has more than 1 infodump about the dragons, how they are seen by humans and how they interact with the world. 

In FE16, we have someone screaming “pointy ears” cannot be allowed to have power over “the people”, but we don’t see how those pointy eared creatures see their place in the human society, or how some try to mingle with humans while others simply gave up.

Like, I wonder if the next remake is really going to be about Elibe, because the comparisons with FE16 are going to sting - dragons are part of Elibe’s backstory, but also of Eliwood and Roy’s story, they are not a mere footnote or an infodump - and I don’t think FE16 will be able to get out unscathed from this.

That other game where you see the results of the heron genocide as a black, poisonous swamp that everyone says used to be a beautiful forest full of song.  Where you can’t go two chapters without someone shouting SUBHUMAN FILTH!!  Where you get to fight the results of those lil’ experiments performed upon those creatures who “aren’t really human” as others note that their minds have been broken and enslaved and the experiments themselves are so horrifying we can’t see them but we can see character’s reactions to them and the rage / despair at it.

Where that conflict is bad enough for a divine being to step in and turn everyone to stone just to get it to stop and most characters fully acknowledge that well, they did screw up on that war business a few times too many over the centuries and maybe they’ll never be able to really make nice because people are flawed.

I had a shower thought that so, so much of FE16′s issues come from its fixation on having a monastery / school as the central hub and thus framing its story as some school mystery that then flops weakly over into a war drama where the war itself still plays second fiddle to “school.”  There’s no reason to take any conflict seriously when you always get to go back to this totally functioning, “safe” place where the only thing that matters is filling your time with minigames and talking to people who, naturally, can’t actually engage with events happening as they’re happening so it just comes off as fluffy conversation pieces.

Nabateans?  Ah, that’s the answer to the mystery.  Relics?  Well we got that one figured out Scooby!  Nemesis?  Well, he destroyed those villages right over there - that we never see, that we never engaged with, but somehow this is Very Bad and Very Pressing.

FE’s still kind of big on character drama over deeply engaging plots but at the same time - FE16′s the only one that feels like there’s not actually any progression happening because so very little changes and so very little of the plot itself is central to the experience.  The revelations about the state of the world are disconnected because the world is the unchanging hub.

Which is still not a mood killer... except when the entire reason events are happening and the world is the way it is is because some Sisters of Mercy rejects recruited this other guy to help them with that “green haired individuals don’t deserve any rights” business.

And fucking please "yeah that's what bothers me about how the fandom talks about the Nabateans" as if the fandom doesn't mostly just talk about Seteth Hot, Flayn Cute, Rhea Bad, and as if Indech and Macuil are talked about AT ALL by the fandom at large. The entire PROBLEM with the fandom at large is how much it ADAMANTLY REFUSES to talk about precisely what humans have done to the Nabateans.

For the most part, Rhea is just considered a tyrannical crazy bitch for what all she's done; the fact that she LITERALLY SURVIVED A GENOCIDE and doesn't want her remaining family and herself to be in danger of being killed for the power their blood, hearts, and bones give humans (that thing that she LITERALLY SAW HAPPEN BEFORE)? Nope, couldn't have anything to do with anything, she's just an evil tyrant. Those tags are so full of shit omg

The cringe is real. So real.

But forreal - and @randomnameless has gone into it more than I have -

I freakin hate how 3H approaches its big central conflict. Because t... flat out doesn't. It barely involves the Nabateans as a culture, as a part of Fodlan, at all. Rhea and the reveal that dragons were massacred in pursuit of humanity's power / pride is a sidenote to the war drama of "oh woe I have to kill my classmates in a pointless war of Ideals boohoo" even though like - you are using the desecrated remains of a living, thinking individual. People are tethered to their ancestors drinking the blood of murdered beings. The same conflict is arising because someone can't stand there to be green-haired, pointy-eared beings.

We get to see, at least in a brief CG, just how bad the Tragedy of Duscur was and it serves as the central conflict of Dimitri's story. Certain parts of fandom loudly and repeatedly whack everyone else over the head just how traumatic and terrifying and awful Edgelord's experiments were (which - not downplaying them but - ??). A very loud minority uses Duscur as a cudgel to "prove" that Dimitri So, So, So Bad and Faerghus sucks and people deny it because STRAIGHT WHITE MEN!!

But Nabteans? The core original sin of Fodlan? The one that still hides in the corner unspoken, unaccounted for, with no hope of any justice because the entire world has moved on? That horrific massacre?

Nah. They must've deserved it. You can't trust those guys because they aren't human.

Generally speaking, the best way to sell an audience on a character's story being true is to actually show it in flashbacks. If they're just narrating it to you, there's room to say that they're lying or are misinformed, but if you as the viewer can actually see what they're talking about, that leaves much less room for argument. I think we can reasonably conclude, based on all other evidence (particularly the opening cutscene), that Rhea is telling the truth, but I think the audience might be at least a little bit more sympathetic to her if they'd actually shown some imagery of what the Nabatean genocide was like for her and how much it clearly affects her. I think the scene would also have benefited from a moment of connection with Claude, who also has to hide his heritage out of fear and has suffered because of something about himself that he cannot control, but who gets a lot more sympathy from the audience. Instead, it's purely an infodump.

And fucking please "yeah that's what bothers me about how the fandom talks about the Nabateans" as if the fandom doesn't mostly just talk about Seteth Hot, Flayn Cute, Rhea Bad, and as if Indech and Macuil are talked about AT ALL by the fandom at large. The entire PROBLEM with the fandom at large is how much it ADAMANTLY REFUSES to talk about precisely what humans have done to the Nabateans.

For the most part, Rhea is just considered a tyrannical crazy bitch for what all she's done; the fact that she LITERALLY SURVIVED A GENOCIDE and doesn't want her remaining family and herself to be in danger of being killed for the power their blood, hearts, and bones give humans (that thing that she LITERALLY SAW HAPPEN BEFORE)? Nope, couldn't have anything to do with anything, she's just an evil tyrant. Those tags are so full of shit omg

The cringe is real. So real.

But forreal - and @randomnameless has gone into it more than I have -

I freakin hate how 3H approaches its big central conflict. Because t... flat out doesn't. It barely involves the Nabateans as a culture, as a part of Fodlan, at all. Rhea and the reveal that dragons were massacred in pursuit of humanity's power / pride is a sidenote to the war drama of "oh woe I have to kill my classmates in a pointless war of Ideals boohoo" even though like - you are using the desecrated remains of a living, thinking individual. People are tethered to their ancestors drinking the blood of murdered beings. The same conflict is arising because someone can't stand there to be green-haired, pointy-eared beings.

We get to see, at least in a brief CG, just how bad the Tragedy of Duscur was and it serves as the central conflict of Dimitri's story. Certain parts of fandom loudly and repeatedly whack everyone else over the head just how traumatic and terrifying and awful Edgelord's experiments were (which - not downplaying them but - ??). A very loud minority uses Duscur as a cudgel to "prove" that Dimitri So, So, So Bad and Faerghus sucks and people deny it because STRAIGHT WHITE MEN!!

But Nabteans? The core original sin of Fodlan? The one that still hides in the corner unspoken, unaccounted for, with no hope of any justice because the entire world has moved on? That horrific massacre?

Nah. They must've deserved it. You can't trust those guys because they aren't human.

Generally speaking, the best way to sell an audience on a character's story being true is to actually show it in flashbacks. If they're just narrating it to you, there's room to say that they're lying or are misinformed, but if you as the viewer can actually see what they're talking about, that leaves much less room for argument. I think we can reasonably conclude, based on all other evidence (particularly the opening cutscene), that Rhea is telling the truth, but I think the audience might be at least a little bit more sympathetic to her if they'd actually shown some imagery of what the Nabatean genocide was like for her and how much it clearly affects her. I think the scene would also have benefited from a moment of connection with Claude, who also has to hide his heritage out of fear and has suffered because of something about himself that he cannot control, but who gets a lot more sympathy from the audience. Instead, it's purely an infodump.

Should she kill the remaining Nabateans and spill their blood in the sea so there would be no crests anymore? Then exsanguinate herself to death?

Or in kumbaya land assuming Nabatean blood vanishes from humans because hocus pocus magic avatar shenanigans - Jeralt autodies afer having been saved via Nabatean blood transfusion? Flayn and Linhardt hybrid children lose half of their blood?

Nabateans wouldn't be allowed to share blood in kinky and non kinky ways with humans?

Predictably, its another side-effect (frankly, side-effectS) of fe16's mystery box obsession & recurring Nabatean snubbing to the point where even in Verdant Wind, where the truth is revealed, there's no greater commentary or conclusion to the Nabateans beyond:

1. Zombie Nemesis & Elites getting obliterated, showing Claude's belief in togetherness and building up his understanding that Rhea, as an archbishop, was never his enemy to begin with, to the point of greenlighting Byleth as Fodlan's successed ruler as Rhea intended (and walking back to his previous statement that Rhea or the Seiros tenets was pro-isolationism, but the fandom loves ignoring that). Still, nothing to really give closure to the Nabateans as a genocided race.

2. In Silver Snow, that still has enough implications to the Nabateans' history, where Rhea's only conclusion to her grief is directly tied to making Byleth her sole salvation, despite Flayn & Seteth still being alive & active members of her fellow kin. The only route where Rhea has direct & open closure to her genocidal and familial grief, and what took priority was fast forwarding to the romantic conclusion.

(this, btw, is a real issue with the Rhealeth ending, and not the 6 1/2 headcanons like Rhea being Byleth's grandmother, straight-up lies like Silver Snow being a status quo route, etc. Still, prefer this over the overly grating confirmation bias that lurks in CF & Hopes)

Largely, this is all because Fodlan writing isn't as interested in the Nabateans as it really should be, they're the skeleton of the whole setting, yet since the games are marketed around the students, they become barely background accessories. Another reason why I and others got happier at the low, bare minimum of a Heroes unit description video bringing up Sothis being enraged by the Nabatean genocide. The bar was THAT fucking low.

I say "was," because it seems like Dagda in Fortune's Weave might have more Nabateans to explore, and Sothis is finally having an active role where they aren't stuck to Byleth 24/7, but I'm not too hopeful. Again, Rhea has been given more singular focus in the gacha game than the two Fodlan games, and the Nabateans are so underutilised that most of the fandom doesn't care (with some advocating, in favour) that one of the routes end with their complete isolation and dehumanisation from someone's totally not yikes "World for Humanity." It'll be miraculous & well-overdue than ever for some good, refined Nabatea content.

@aaawunder 1. Facts, and 2. the way the first tag isn't in the slightest wrong 😭 cos yeah, I specifically remember this one twitter post that uses Rhea's impulsive regret about sparing the Elites whilst Claude's trying to kill her in GW, in a way to frame her as psychotic and such.

I don't love that with Hop, Kieran, Grisham etc. they all get this "you have to put aside your dreams and goals, you can't win 'em all because you're not the main character of reality... BECAUSE THE PLAYER IS THE SPECIALIST BOY. You fucking DUMBASSES how dare you think you're important when the player is the most important person ever."

Like I don't think the INTENT is that there's this Brad Bird-esque "there are special people and unspecial people and the unspeacial people need to shut up and let the special people work" but that's how it always reads to me because I don't usually project onto self-inserts in the way I think I'm supposed to? But I also. As the player. Want to be doing things, so that's all I think about when we get these types of rivals, and when people complain about like Urbain and Taunie stealing the player's moment and it makes me feel gross?