fae

What's so great about Harrymort, anyway? 

The drama, the intensity, the wrongness, the clashing of opposites, the most extreme version of enemies to lovers…

This ship basically consists of Stockholm syndrome, power inequality, and abuse. 

In some fics sure, yeah. But these are all really interesting - terrible, yes, but super interesting to dive into. There is a reason people like to read/watch psychological thrillers, horror, etc. I don’t feel like I should have to explain this very massive, common human drive, so I won’t. Go google it!

The same can be applied to Tomione but I understand that last one and I even started to appreciate this ship a lot. 

Cool, you like these things too! And you’re completely allowed to prefer Hermione to Harry. Whatever you want to read.

Hermione is the character most similar to Tom, if she had the ambition that Tom had, she could have become something similar to Voldemort in canon. 

Strong disagree here - she did have that ambition imo, she just… wasn’t evil, and she became Minister of Magic in canon, so. Pretty ambitious and somewhat similar, just in the legal, ‘good’ way.

But beyond that, Hermione is someone Tom/V could respect and have as an ally. 

Mm, no, she was a muggleborn, so in canon, a LOT of major shifts would have needed to happen for her to simply not be killed, or maybe tortured a hunch for fun, first, before eventually… being killed.

She is someone who would be able to rule alongside him, and everyone would benefit from that, since she is fair and good. 

Again, LOTS of things would have had to happen in canon for this to be even remotely possible. Unless you’re imagining some kind of AU where Tom Riddle is the same age as the trio, and they grow up together and can therefore influence each other on more equal footing…? But that’s Tom, not canon Voldemort, and you started this referencing Voldemort.

Also if Tom/V had her by his side, he would be a more stable version than the one in canon. 

Uh, would he? Assuming we’ve jumped over the impossible canon hurdles to get Hermione by Lord Voldemort’s side, by the time Hermione is even in the magical world, he’s been a bodiless spirit with a shredded soul for years. It would be a tall order for Hermione - or anyone - to make him more stable. I like arguing that Harry could sort of manage this in canon because of the horcrux connection, but that’s me making things up that are FAR from canon, and Hermione doesn’t have this. 

So.. I understand why you like this ship so much but.. the more I think about Harrymort the more I feel disgusted. 

Cool, your feelings are valid! You should probably stop thinking about Harrymort for your mental health. You can block tags/keywords/etc on tumblr so that you see less of it.

Harry is not a character that people respect and fear, he is just Harry. Just that. Some random boy. There's nothing special about him, and if it weren't for the horcrux he would already be dead since chapter 1 of the books. 

Well, that’s not true, imo. Harry was the best at Defensive Magic, he was an amazing flier, he is brave and bold and puts his life on the line for others without question - even people who don’t deserve it and who tried to harm him, like Draco. Those are all extraordinary traits that maybe some people make the mistake of ignoring and underestimating. 

Tom/V is a prodigy, one of the most powerful wizards in the books, he wouldn't be interested in someone so ordinary. 

If not for the horcrux, maybe not. But also, maybe. We don’t know what Harry would have been like if he grew up with a normal happy healthy family. Maybe he would have thrived in many ways, and he would have gleaned some interest. But even without that, see above comment to take note of some of Harry’s traits that he has despite growing up in an abusive home. Voldemort said himself that he values bravery. 

But let's say yes, that Tom/V is interested in Harry precisely because he is common and average, since they have a similar background - This is difficult to happen, V is not an empathetic character but let's pretend so - and because of the horcrux, of course it's because of the horcrux, that's the only reason, the only thing that makes Harry stand out among the others -not even that came from him lol so sad- If our hypothetical scenario happened, Harry would be a toy for Tom /V -he already is- "ah, but the fun is in how much Harry fights, he was going to fight, that's what he is" oh yes, this argument is the favorite of the Tomarymort fans, huh? He wouldn't be able to fight forever, this character has been in fight or flight mode since the beginning, he'll get tired eventually, V would be able to break him, and do you think V is the type to keep things broken? I don't think so. 

None of this logic adds up to me. How can you say all this about Harry and not apply it to pretty much everyone else, including Hermione? Voldemort WAS far from empathetic. Canonically. And yeah, sure, no one would be able to fight forever. But if anyone has a fire that would last an infuriatingly long time, I’d argue that it would be Harry. 

My point is Tomarymort is a ship that explores abuse, toxic and destructive relationships, physical and psychological torture, Stockholm syndrome etc. And that's fine if you like it but I think we can all agree that this ship and love should NEVER be put in the same sentence . 

Obviously this depends on what the story is. If it’s a story that explores all those former themes, then it’s probably not a lovey dovey romance anyway. But there are definitely stories that don’t have all those dark subjects, and if someone wants to write a platonic romance where the word love shows up between these two, more power to them! But you don’t get to say everyone in the world can never do a single thing in their fiction. People can write whatever they want! And you get to decide not to read it! Everyone wins.

Because love and respect would never exist between these two characters. No matter how good the writer is, some things just don't work. Just become them ooc, that's what happens most lol

I feel sorry for you. Where is your sense of curiosity, open-mindedness? Maybe you could never write these things convincingly, but some people are more talented than you (don’t take this too personally; no matter how good we are, there are always people more talented than us). It’s okay to not like things and to avoid them based on your comfort level/interest/etc etc, but just because you’re not looking doesn’t mean that such amazing jaw-dropping works that make you believe in the unbelievable aren’t out there.

Part I: Hermione

The first thing I want to question about anon’s statement is their firm stance that Hermione is “most similar” and inherently compatible with Tom Riddle (or Voldemort).

Firstly, I’d like to point out that Tom and Hermione have drastically different childhoods, familiar contexts, and social experiences, and that, due to how particular Tom's experiences are, they will necessarily grow up to have very little common ground.

Tom is an orphan who grew up in the 1930s and 1940s. He shares his space with a lot of other children, whom he canonically has bad or nonexistent relationships with. He has no money or financial security, no family or other relevant platonic bonds. He is noticeably lower class, which is obvious from the way he dresses, speaks, and conducts himself. Hermione grew up in the 1980s and 1990s. She has two parents, who clearly care greatly for her even if their relationship might grow strained with time, she has no siblings, and we have little information on possible friendships pre-Hogwarts, though her characterization strongly implies that she didn’t have many (if any). She is solidly middle class, which can be derived from the way she speaks, conducts herself, and from the small insights we get of the time she spends with her parents.

We’re already looking at two incredibly different formative experiences in childhood; the only similarities I can find so far are their nationality, familiarity with the London of their respective times, and a degree of isolation from their peers, although the motives are different: Hermione has difficulty connecting with her peers, while Tom simply doesn’t want to.

(I won’t contrast this with Harry, Snape, or even Dumbledore, but if your mind went there…)

When we reach Hogwarts, the differences continue. Tom is sorted Slytherin, the House of his ancestor, where he, in no particular order, goes on refine his posture and image, discover and reveal his ancestry, build a considerable power base amongst students older and younger than he is, murder a student, frame another for the murder, delve into the Dark Arts and split his soul — thus commiting an extremely taboo act, socially and legally — and do all of this while having most of the school convinced he’s the best thing since sliced bread. Tom is clearly bright, flexible and quick-witted, willing to break boundaries; charming, cunning; violent, impulsive, manipulative, and incredibly reckless.

Hermione is a Muggleborn. She becomes friends with Harry and Ron after being attacked by a Troll, helps Harry investigate the various mysteries they run across, convinces him to run an underground Defense club, dates a Quidditch star, permanently disfigures a girl, takes so many (useless) classes she needs a Time Turner, starts a campaign for House Elf rights, and slowly but surely falls irrevocably in love with one of her best friends. She’s bright, brave, loyal to a fault, ruthless and idealistic; she’s also self-righteous, incredibly petty, inflexible, bad under pressure, condescending and notably a total swot.

They’re both intelligent, yes, but it manifests very differently. Tom is curious, inventive, willing and eager to push boundaries and cross disciplines (traits we also see in characters like Dumbledore, Snape, and Fred and George). Hermione has a frightening ability to memorize, a commendable command of the Hogwarts library, and is able to cast above her level because she has very good understanding of theory — but she lacks a lot of the traits that the aforementioned characters have, namely boldness, curiosity, creativity, and a certain disregard for the rules.

(She doesn’t believe the Half-Blood Prince’s instructions and sticks to the official ones in her Potions textbook, even after being proven wrong. She immediately dismisses Divination as a field of study and criticizes those who put value in it. She doesn’t believe that the Deathly Hallows could be real until the evidence is undeniable and placed firmly in front of her eyes.)

This isn’t to say that they don’t have some similarities; they both value loyalty and bravery, they can both be cruel, they are both ambitious. But the context in which these traits arise — they’re cruel, yes, but where, how and with whom? They’re ambitious, yes, but where does that ambition come from and where does it drive them? — make them drastically different people, who do not share core tenants, principles, life experiences, or ideals.

I agree with anon that Tom/V could come to begrudgingly respect Hermione, but it wouldn’t be painless, and it wouldn’t be on the basis of her alleged similarities to him; she’s a lawyer, not a scholar, and he might find it fun to watch her eviscerate some sap who mistreated his House Elf, but he doesn’t give a damn about the House Elf, or about her House Elf rights campaign; he wouldn’t find her pursuit of it minimally interesting — he’d sooner find it a waste of time and effort — and he’d be incensed at her provocation of his follower base.

Hermione would not be able to rule by Voldemort’s side — have you seen Hermione interact with anyone in canon? She’s callous, patronizing, and although she can pick up some context clues, she’s also prone to completely misreading the room (girl, same).

(see: Hermione, Lavender, and that poor, poor rabbit)

For all the inherent flaws of Voldemort’s tactic of ruling by fear, he’s clearly the type of person who can seduce people to his cause, who can invoke (and maintain) a level of almost religious devotion from his followers, who is so awe-inspiring and intimidating that even his enemies simply must acknowledge it on occasion (much like Dumbledore).

This isn’t Hermione. Hermione isn’t suited to rule the way Voldemort wants to; she’s an elected official and she’s thriving in the bureaucracy inherent to her position. If this is what you meant by “ruling at his side” — Voldemort at the top and Hermione enacting his will under the guise of an elected representative — then I could, perhaps, be persuaded to see it. There are many things here that I could be persuaded to see. What a good fic writer does, after all, is precisely that: persuasion, making things work when they shouldn’t, making them work a thousand times, in as many different ways. That’s how it should be.

But anon is not arguing for what could be done with Tomione or Volmione in fanfiction. And so we’re restrained by what Hermione and Voldemort are, canonically, and not in the fanon that exists in anon’s head.

And what they are, canonically, is: blatantly uninterested in the other, fundamentally incompatible, and more akin to two cats hissing and batting at each other than the Lord and Lady of your YA fantasy series.

My condolences.

Part II: Tomarrymort

“So.. I understand why you like this ship so much but.. the more I think about Harrymort the more I feel disgusted.”

Skill issue. 

“What's so great about Harrymort, anyway? This ship basically consists of Stockholm syndrome, power inequality, and abuse.” /  “My point is Tomarymort is a ship that explores abuse, toxic and destructive relationships, physical and psychological torture, Stockholm syndrome etc.”

Hot. Tell me more.

“and if it weren't for the horcrux he would already be dead since chapter 1 of the books. “

Factually incorrect. 

Firstly, Harry’s survival as an infant is due to Lily’s sacrifice, which predates the creation of the Horcrux and thus he would survive that Halloween with or without that pesky Horcrux. Secondly, the only time in which the Horcrux contributes to Harry’s continued survival is when Voldemort tries to kill him in DH, in the Forbidden Forest. Apart from that, Harry’s survival is systematically due to his resourcefulness, ability to perform under extreme duress (heh), boldness, quick wits, and sheer brass. 

“Harry is not a character that people respect and fear, he is just Harry. Just that. Some random boy.”

Factually incorrect.

Harry is respected by his peers, both by a lot of his fellow students at Hogwarts, yes, but also by his fellow Order members when he officially leaves school and joins the war in DH. He’s also, to a degree, respected by his enemies (Draco, Lucius, and Voldemort all exhibit a degree of respect towards Harry), as well as by many characters he crosses paths with and whose hearts he wins (Fleur and Krum stand out immediately, but also Dobby, Griphook, Ollivander, Aberforth). 

Harry is feared, yes, to a degree, by the Ministry during OotP and by Voldemort’s regime in DH. I concede that this isn’t inherently due to his magical prowess, but it is due to his political position in the Wizarding World, which by the time we reach DH is as much his own doing as it is Voldemort’s.

I’d argue as well that, while not feared, Harry is regarded by (most of) the Death Eaters and Voldemort with a degree of caution; after all, he’s a great duellist for his age, with a tendency for quick and creative thinking that often gets him out of tight spots. It’s smart to be wary of him.

(Also, Harry himself would be a little delighted by this. ‘Just Harry’. Can yall imagine his grin?)

“There's nothing special about him“

I pity the school teachers of anyone who reads the books and comes out on the other side of the experience with this take away.

The entire thesis of the books is that Harry is, in fact, an incredibly special person — not because he was chosen by a self-fulfilling prophecy, not because of the Horcrux, or because of his parents, or because of his magical power or his Quidditch talent — but because he is the personified antithesis to Voldemort’s base philosophy.

Harry is a character who draws others to him because of his staunch ability to love, to be kind (not nice, mind you —), to be selfless, and to forgive. It’s how he gets the Philosopher's Stone out of the mirror; it’s why Fawkes comes to his rescue in the Chamber; it’s how he can rescue Buckbeak and Sirius in one fell swoop and beat back over a hundred Dementors at 13; it’s how he wins the fight between the two connected twin wands in the graveyard; it’s how he drives off Voldemort’s possession (an incredibly difficult thing to do!) in the Ministry, and how he starts to cultivate the loyalty of friends like Neville and Luna and, slowly but surely, the rest of the DA; it’s how he gets Slughorn’s memory in HBP and how he so effortlessly connects to and understands Tom Riddle is those same memories; it’s why an entire population endures and hopes and rises up on his memory and image and presence alone.

It’s how he survives the second Killing Curse. It’s how he protects everyone, during the last hurrah of the Battle of Hogwarts, from the Death Eaters and Voldemort. It’s how he emboldens them, how he makes them brave.

It’s how he defeats Voldemort.

(This, I cannot state it enough, is plainly in the text.)

“But let's say yes, that Tom/V is interested in Harry precisely because he is common and average, since they have a similar background - This is difficult to happen, V is not an empathetic character but let's pretend so “

“He chose the boy he thought most likely to be a danger to him,” said Dumbledore. “And notice this, Harry. He chose, not the pureblood (which, according to his creed, is the only kind of wizard worth being or knowing), but the half-blood, like himself. He saw himself in you before he had ever seen you, and in marking you with that scar, he did not kill you, as he intended, but gave you powers, and a future, which have fitted you to escape him not once, but four times so far — something that neither your parents, nor Neville’s parents, ever achieved.”

…. anyway —

“If our hypothetical scenario happened, Harry would be a toy for Tom /V -he already is”

Hot. Tell me more.

"(...) V would be able to break him, and do you think V is the type to keep things broken? I don't think so. “

Isn’t he? Doesn’t he delight in breaking down, humiliating and torturing the Malfoys? Doesn’t he keep Bellatrix around and value her loyalty even when she is (very clearly) unwell? Doesn’t he recognize Wormtail’s use even whilst despising him? Doesn’t he carefully groom Barty Crouch Jr. and clearly recognize his value even after Barty was kept prisoner by his father? 

Isn’t there a collection of broken people Voldemort keeps around, canonically?

Are you sure you understand the character you’re claiming to represent here?

“Why does Tomarrymort work”?

There’s a plurality of reasons as to why people like them, a variety of different ways people like them, and, frankly, much love to the fandom, but I ain’t writing all that.

Personally, I like them because they’re narrative mirrors who parallel each other blatantly and, even when they don’t, they always seem to rhyme, at least. They’re fate and prophecy bound, soul-linked, inextricably connected in all ways a person can be. They are defining to each other’s sense of self. They match and contrast beautifully, two diametrically opposed people who can nevertheless understand each other better than anyone else.

When Harry had finished speaking, Ron shook his head. “You really understand him.” “Bits of him,” said Harry. “Bits ... I just wish I’d understood Dumbledore as much. But we'll see."

(DH)

“Oh, you don’t know Potter as I do, Bellatrix,” said Malfoy softly. “He has a great weakness for heroics; the Dark Lord understands this about him.

(OotP)

They have the potential to be a cautionary tale or a beautiful story or forgiveness and love. They can be the mother of all corruption arcs, or the manifesto for rehabilitative justice and the importance of forgiveness.

Also, Harry thinks Tom is extremely fit and I, for one, support him.

“ And that's fine if you like it but I think we can all agree that this ship and love should NEVER be put in the same sentence. Because love and respect would never exist between these two characters. No matter how good the writer is, some things just don't work. Just become them ooc, that's what happens most lol”

With all due respect: die mad about it.