The Nimrods

IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY CORRECT, to be a system without trauma. However, you CANNOT have OSDD or DID. Because the criteria specifically states that these Mental ilnesses need trauma to develop.

This does NOT mean that Systems without OSDD and DID are not valid. Theyre also systems, and the brain can do weird things sometimes.

Validity of Experience: Plurality is a subjective experience of identity, not a "fake" disorder. If multiple, distinct personas operate within one body, that experience is real to them, regardless of its origin.

Diverse Origins: While many systems are formed through trauma (traumagenic), others can form through natural, spiritual, or voluntary processes (endogenic), such as tulpamancy or spontaneous creation.

Beyond Diagnosis: Medical models focus on diagnosing distress (DID/OSDD), but "not disordered" does not mean "not real." Plurality can exist without the impairment.

there is no "scientifically correct" way to be a system without trauma because there are no verified scientific studies that even entertain the possibility that nondisordered plurality can exist. the only studies done on nondisordered plurality are sociological studies that merely observe the way the community works and documents their beliefs. that's what nondisordered plurality is; it's a belief, not any tangible thing that can be proven or disproven. it exists similar to a religion, where there's no way to prove the existence of a god but there's also no way to disprove it in turn. the entire concept exists outside of the scope of proper scientific analysis and therefore would never be described as "scientifically correct/incorrect" in any regard.

and see, I don't mind nondisordered plurality as a belief. I don't mind there being people who view themselves as plural due to some sort of spiritual belief or what have you. but when a community centered around a belief system tries to force their experiences and their belief to be not only comparable to a medical experience, but to even attempt to replace said medical experience with spirituality or personal belief? (see "natural multiplicity movement" which made an attempt to have CDDs removed from the DSM entirely.) that's where we have an issue. systemhood is a disordered experience. system terminology is medical terminology specifically used for those with CDDs. using this medical terminology while claiming your experiences are not medical in nature and are instead a result of a belief is extremely contradictory and, frankly, quite idiotic in concept. that is the issue I have with these communities, not their belief on its own.

You cannot be a "system without trauma" because the term "system" means "person with a CDD," not "person who believes they are multiple" or even "person with multiple parts" (because then disorders like BPD could be included in the definition too).

Bullshitting your own hypotheses where there are gaps in the literature is not sound scientific reasoning, it is breeding grounds for misinformation and disinformation. It is also incredibly concerning the extent to which non-traumagenic plurality communities insist on co-opting terms and co-opting spaces used by people with CDDs and their insistence on "expanding the definitions" of various concepts related to CDDs to include them, when there is no need to do so. Cultural practices and religious systems across the globe do not, and should not be associated with disordered behavior. Not only does this then make it much more likely for culturally insensitive clinicians to regard completely ordinary behavior as disordered, therefore making them more vulnerable to victimization by the medical system, but it's also harmful to people trying to find information on CDDs and instead finding religiously/spiritually-affiliated information with no scientific or medical basis, and engaging in behaviors that may worsen disordered behaviors.

yeah, definitely. I know I feel like that sometimes but I'm pretty sure it's quite common with NPD ^^

APPEARANCE NPD / INTELLIGENCE NPD

APPEARANCE NPD: npd in which you are inherently superior to someone/everyone else because you are more attractive OR npd in which you experience frustration or anger towards other due to them being less attractive than you

Fuck Syscord. I don’t know what’s in the water in those Discord servers but they turn ordinarily pretty decent (albeit severely mentally ill) people into the most entitled assholes on earth

The ridiculous DNIs and blacklists that prevent any discussion from happening, the forcing your beliefs onto others (most notably regarding littles — you know they’re not literal children right?) and just being such volatile communities you can’t say a goddamn thing without someone getting upset

I’m not saying you can’t have friends from Syscord, but I am saying one of the best things we ever did for our mental health was cut off everyone we knew from there

yeah,, syscord is.. there. i'm all for blacklists but they often ban general system things (dormancy, fusion, ect) and also just completely random things like smiley faces, words, names, ect. plus the forcing beliefs thing is so real. they always have rules about littles and stuff as if all littles will be the same.

But once you reach large numbers, this is going to be exponentially harder to maintain. As much as you would love to accommodate everyone, it's just not possible without people feeling like they're constantly walking on eggshells... And that helps no one.

Communities can be useful for finding resources and support, however it would probably be better to make a small group of friends rather than try to hang out in a large server if you want to get to know other systems better. A friend group of 5 is a lot easier to manage than a server of 500 or even 5000 people. You can use those servers to meet people as a starting point, but from there, it's better to establish your own support circle.

Maybe this is because we don’t have a host, but I would not be okay with one of us declaring themselves the owner of the body — certainly not the boss of the system because of it. I barely tolerate our higherups, and they at least “earned” the position. I do worry slightly that other systems use this model because it’s the only one they know, but I understand that it can work healthily for a number of systems.

I’m curious about systems who do/did use this model. If y’all feel comfortable, please choose the option most prominent in your decision making.

bonus question: who was it & why do you think they said it?

Brain: We have coping mechanism at home

This post will only contain my personal opinion and experience. It may not be applicable to all other people with ASPD and may likewise be relatable to people who do not have it.

I am only going to be talking about emotional intimacy, but this post is definitely also applicable to the other type of intimacy!

I'll make myself pretty vulnerable in this post, by discussing my personal experience, so you better not make me regret that!

Abbreviations:

ASPD = Antisocial Personality Disorder

ASPD is a disability caused by prolonged childhood trauma (with many possible variations), that develops in order to protect the brain from said trauma, or rather to help the brain deal with it in some way!

While the consequences of this in the context of intimacy, look different for every person with ASPD, many do report: a difficulty with developing bonds, having problems trusting people & giving away control, losing feelings for people quickly and abruptly/getting "bored" of people, responding extremely to arguments, having problems dealing with peoples emotions/ problems with being close to people etc.

This may be due to a variety of factors, but does often tie back to having no or few positive experiences with intimacy, having not learned how to exist in relationships properly/a lack of being socialized, not having the necessary prosocial emotions and mechanisms to deal with it and other similar things.

While this causes some people with ASPD to develop a brain, that does not have a need for emotional intimacy at all, others develop a brain, that craves the emotional intimacy it has been denied, but which will also fight said intimacy at every turn.

Thats as much generalized info as I can give you, as the exact representation of this is highly individual, but I will offer my personal experience on the following slides!

What you need to know is that I was accidentally neglected for huge parts of my childhood and teens and did not get my emotional and social needs met most of the time, while also knowing that my parents were theoretically capable of that, as they were giving everything I lacked to my sibling.

This caused me to grow up with a burning desire for intimacy, while being disappointed by people time and time again, failing to actually develop the things needed to experience this intimacy and partially growing to resent it and viewing it as "weak" and "bad".

Ever since then I have been stuck in what I like to call the "ASPD stages of running". Theres different points in getting close to people (in any nature of a relationship), that'll send me running and feeling like I am "weak" for wanting it, or as if being close to people is the worst thing that could happen.

The stages (simply put) are:

1. Desiring/Daydreaming about my dream relationship

2. Looking at peoples relationships/Looking at people with the intent of getting closer to them

3. Talking to people (online or irl)

4. Getting closer / being friends with people

5. Being friends with people for longer

Optionally:

6. Getting so close that a romantic relationship may happen

7. The moment of getting in the relationship / the days after

8. Being in the relationship for a bit

At any of those stages, I'll very likely have one or multiple moments where my ASPD will try to get the better of me and will try to convince me to just run away, drop contact and never talk about it again. Even just admitting to this and talking about it is hard as fuck, because it is so deeply ingrained in my brain to see emotional intimacy as a weak and dangerous thing.

What this will look like exactly really depends on the person and situation, but things that have happened in the past were:

• blocking the person and everyone I am friends with and pretending I am no longer alive

• my brain fixating on their faults in order to give me a good reason to hate them so I don't get closer to them and can hold them at arms length

• responding less often/more dryly or ignoring messages entirely

• not replicating the energy of the conversation/relationship

• staging an incident so I ruin the relationship

• running at the first signs of a disagreement

• avoiding people when they are emotional

• feeling uncomfortable around people as a whole => isolating

• beating myself up about letting it happen again

• impulsively bumping the relationship to another stage, just to immediately regret it (in a "fuck that has consequences" way)

• shutting off all my emotions, dissociate or otherwise make sure to stop the feelings (or just lose them automatically)

To put it in a shorter and more simple way, I'll usually either get the fuck outta there, or make sure to change the relationship/my personal position in the relationship to a more comfortable and less vulnerable and intimate level. This may also just look like me shutting off, becoming distant, or seeming mad, when all I am is overwhelmed by the intimacy and grossed out that I actually need and desire that.

As you can possibly imagine, that is not the most useful thing, as it causes issues in relationships, cuts friendships short and makes dealing with people a lot harder!

The most frustrating thing about this for me though is, that even if the most perfect friend or partner came along and even if the relationship would work at first, I am very very likely to crash it against the wall, simply because my brain cannot handle having the things, that it needs and desires.

It desires a hug and runs from the one who offers it.

It needs help and bites the hand that does.

It needs love and gets grossed out by whoever offers it.

It wants attention and can't handle it when it gets it.

It wants gifts, but doesnt know what to do when it gets them.

Whatever it wants, it can't have, so it keeps wanting, keeps yearning, keeps desiring and has to watch itself be unable to accept any of it.

And if that sounds painful, thats because it is.

Its a vicious kind of pain when you have to watch yourself ruin yet another thing, because your brain can't handle it, while you scream at it in frustration to get its act together, because it also is everything you desperately need.

ASPD sucks when it comes to intimacy and it especially sucks when it comes to talking about it, or being honest about these problems. It developed to protect me from being too "weak" to deal with the trauma and now its practically preventing me from showing any "weakness" or seeking out what previously hurt me. Which wouldn't be this bad, if I didn't still have this kid in me that just wants to be loved and daydreams about all the things, the ASPD hates.

When your shell disagrees with your core and you're not strong enough yet to break your shell, what does that really leave you with, other than curling up into a spiky ball and letting the shell do its job? I know I still need the protection, but I wish it wasn't actively preventing me from learning to live without it.