i saw this on reddit and screenshotted it, and i am glad i did because they deleted the post!!!
you should still be able to read the replies over there but if you can't i have the full thread here
the OP said they wanted to buy something from peter in january (i'm assuming 2025), but he told them to send the money to somebody else, "a well known TR creator", via paypal friends and family. (i think it is fairly obvious who this creator might be considering their ties to peter and the kickstarter. considering they were in cahoots was this creator aware of the loans being fraudulently acquired?)
if everything was above board why couldn't peter accept the money himself? friends and family is very shady as if you don't receive anything or there's something wrong when it arrives you can't complain to paypal as there is no evidence of a deal taking place. with a goods and services paypal invoice you can add a tracking number which gives proof it's been sent/delivered, but friends and family has no protection should anything go wrong.
and not just sending it with friends + family, but peter asking the OP to send the money TO SOMEBODY ELSE?? because he didn't want it showing up in his own bank account? because the government was investigating his accounts? because he'd already declared his business as insolvent as far back as september 2021? idk if the thing the OP bought was something that was offered with the kickstarter but if it was then that was part of the business - you cannot be trading your business assets if your business doesn't exist any more!!
all of the above would explain why you'd need to keep the money out of your own name and also conceal the fact that money was exchanged for goods by using paypal friends and family!!
the OP says in the comments that they did receive what they purchased, but the way it all occurred is shady š¤ it sounds shady enough on its own, but with the fraud news it is SUPER shady
and now i have just found out he's still selling the cd's and vinyls and posters??? https://shop.peterconnelly.com/index.php so whose bank account are these profits getting paid into? peter or the "well known TR creator"?
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Composer sentenced for Bounce Back Loan abuse following Insolvency Service investigations
W I L D i told u guys didn't i? i made multiple behemoth essay posts about this project do you remember??? no wonder they were shilling it so hard but I TOLD YOU it was shady, i just didn't know HOW shady it was eg: lying to the government and fraudulently obtaining loans but I KNEW IT WAS SHADY I TOLD YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!
MY POSTS FROM 2018 IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER: https://classictombraider.tumblr.com/tagged/VINDICATED%20SHAM/chrono
@adayka - I said in the very first post I made that Iām not trying to tell people how to spend their money. And yeah I have definitely considered asking them directly.
@psychedelicsaber (spelled it right this time whoops haha) - I understand we have different opinions but I donāt know how many more ways I can try to explain mine. They were asking for Ā£60,000 for the basic project, Ā£180,000 to have everybody else involved. They got Ā£70,000 and are saying theyāre able to have the extra people involved. Thatās a Ā£50,000 difference in what they claimed was required. This part isnāt your or my opinion, itās fact.
Our interpretations of the Ā£50,000 discrepancy are where our opinions differ. I can see that youāre seeing it asĀ āheās sacrificing his own moneyā, but Iām seeing it asĀ āwhy did they ask for Ā£180,000 if it was doable for Ā£70,000?ā. If Ā£50,000 was required for the extra people and is currently being āgiven upā to get them, then that means only Ā£20,000 is being used on the basic project. If only Ā£20,000 was needed for the basic project, why did they have Ā£60,000 as their basic goal?
The numbers just do not add up hence why I see it as greed.Ā Iām not asking you or anybody else to agree with me but I feel like I have explained my opinion well enough and provided enough unaccounted for money for the greed part to be understood by now. That is my purely interpretation of it and unless they are entirely transparent with the allocation of funds, neither of our opinions are ever more valid than the otherās.
Last month, Peter said in the Kickstarter comments: āAlso bear in mind, CD packaging in KS will be KS Exclusive and, online shop versions will be standard Jewel Case.ā (screencap hereĀ in case the comment gets deleted) Why is this āKS exclusiveā packaging availableĀ on the shop? And if itās soĀ āexclusiveā then why are there 397 copies available to buy?
The shop has the statement: "All funds raised from the sales are going towards the improvement of Tomb Raider: The Dark Angel Symphony in line with our stretch goals.ā The point of the Kickstarter was to raise the money for those goals. They canāt sell things afterwards and claim itās still going towards it. Are they seriously expecting to make anywhere from Ā£20,000 to Ā£230,000 from the shop when theyāre selling unwanted things at a higher price?
And they are now selling official merchandise on the store, why? This store is to flog the unwanted Kickstarter items, not to sell official things you didnāt even produce. The official statues are listed at Ā£240 and Ā£300, both of which are cheaper than the Dark Angel statues at Ā£310. The official ones look better (proportions and quality) and are in colour.
Over Christmas you can use a code to get a 5% discount which is an absolute joke. Sales elsewhere are from a minimum of 10% to as much as 90%. If you bought the ācheapestā thing youād only save 75p. Even if you bought the most expensive thing (bar the advertising) youād only be saving Ā£15.50.
Things were meant to be more expensive buying them outside of the Kickstarter. So why is the advertising the same price as the Kickstarter (Ā£4,500) when everything else has increased in price? If you are making people pay more then you canāt pick and choose what is more expensive. Everything has to be more expensive or nothing has to be. If youāre using that 5% code then the advertising would be Ā£4,410, making it CHEAPER than the Kickstarter.
Doesnāt warrant aĀ paragraph but the pendant is so laughable at a cost of Ā£60, when I previously worked it out to cost Ā£10.
I didnāt want to be the one to make a post about this and so I didnāt say anything the first time around. But now this Kickstarter has failed and is going for a second attempt,Ā I canāt sit back and watch so many people say positive things about this when I donāt agree with it in the slightest.
I am so surprised that I have only saw @ohthetombraider say anything about this project which could be construed as negative (here and here) which prompted me to add my own thoughts and make a post.
In no way am I trying to tell people what to do with their own money, I just want to say what I personally think about this project. Really long post ahead so putting it under a read more.
First, a little preface that will maybe will give more context to my opinion. I did not give this project any money the first time around and I will not this time or any future times either. Nor have I promoted it or reblogged anybody elseās promotion posts. I do not see the point of any type of Kickstarter/Patreon/Twitch/etc. Getting something should be a transaction. Show me what it is and the price, I pay and then receive it. It shouldnāt be āyou can pay this, this, or this, but you might not even get it! So make sure to pay the highest amount you can and encourage everybody else too! Or else you will let everybody down!!!ā. I will never have any interest in snake oil that might not even transpire.
Initial Announcement
When this project was first announced as a secret, I expected that we were going to be getting some sort of a game, a sequel to AOD. When it was revealed to be this music project it was just an anticlimax. I canāt understand why everybody is so excited for this?
What youāre getting
The description of this new Dark Angel symphony is very inconsistent. In the failed Kickstarterās comments, Peter describes it as āa complete remake of 4-5-6, i.e. nothing that has been heard yetā. If itās a āremakeā how can it be something entirely different you havenāt heard? If itās actually a remake, whatās the point of having a download/CD with the original TR4-6 tracks? Is it something entirely different or is it just a re-recording? The failed Kickstarterās comments had this statement: āReally sorry for all the confusion. We will revise our description as soon as we can.ā so the description was even more vague prior to this?
The descriptions and pledges are constantly being edited, this is very unorganised and things like this should have been set up from the beginning. Itās been said repeatedly that this is a project āfor the fansā, but we have never been consulted on it. It would have made sense to have a survey beforehand to gauge what people wanted and the prices they would be willing to pay, rather than making everything ridiculously expensive and unappealing then reducing it upon seeing the underwhelming financial response.
If this is truly āfor the fansā, they should be trying to get the project out for the lowest cost possible. If it was feasible to do the project for Ā£60,000, this is the price that should have been originally given, not Ā£180,000. All of these extra people who would be involved if there was more money are ultimately irrelevant if the project is still able to go ahead without them.Ā
Soundtracks
The original soundtracks are already readily accessible for free. The TR4/5/6 soundtracks have already been released in the past by Peter on Soundcloud.
The Kickstarter claims that the 5.1 remaster of AOD is āpresented here for the very first time", but it has already been released in 2012 by Peter himself, for free download. The Dropbox link is now defunct but here are dated sources of the release:
https://www.trforge.net/advent/2012/day12/index-en.php (scroll down or CTRL+F ā5.1ā³)
And the best source - screenshots of it on my external hard drive. If they are going to be released for āthe first timeā on Kickstarter, how could I have possibly have had them since 2013?
https://imgur.com/a/mu8pV1J
You could just burn these to a disc yourself, if they have been released by the creator for free download then there is nothing to stop you legally or morally. Youāre paying for a download of something thatās free. Then youāre paying another Ā£10 for the privilege of having it on a disc. Just buy a stack of 25 CDās for Ā£5 and burn them yourself?
Pledges
The lowest pledge on the failed Kickstarter was Ā£5 and you didnāt even get a download of the soundtrack, which is the whole point of having the Kickstarter. However, you did receive a [measly] thank you email, which is now no longer sent to anybody, no matter how much you pledge.
All of the tiers have been reduced multiple times on the failed Kickstarter and again for this second attempt. If tiers can be reduced in price so drastically and repeatedly, then they obviously werenāt worth the asking price to begin with. And they will no doubt be reduced further.Ā
Despite everything being cheaper, the new lowest pledge is Ā£20. You receive both downloads of soundtracks, but this tier was only Ā£15 on the failed Kickstarter. Youāre payingĀ Ā£5 MOREĀ for the same thing. Previously there was a Ā£10 tier for just the download of The Dark Angel, but there is no equivalent on this second Kickstarter, not even as an add-on. So you are now forced to get TR4/5/6 soundtracks too.
You previously had to pledge Ā£60 to get your name in the booklet, but now the minimum is Ā£90. And thereās probably more things like this that I havenāt noticed because the prices have been changed so many times and because I havenāt been actively following this project (just did my research on it before writing this).
Rewards
The rewards have deliberately been structured so no single tier includes everything, which will force people to pledge multiple tiers. The add-ons arenāt really useful as if you wanted the CD or vinyl, you would just pledge the tier that had them in already.
There is no way for somebody to pick and choose the elements they actually wanted to receive. In the comments, Peter even suggests making multiple accounts to pledge twice or roping your friends into pledging for you. If you are willing to give them money then you shouldnāt have to go out of your way to do so.
Pendants
You canāt get the pendants or statues as add-on items, so they are forcing people to pay Ā£100 (previously Ā£190) or Ā£350 (previously Ā£1000!!!!!) respectively if they want either of those. You are only able to choose 1, so if somebody wanted all 4 pendants or both statues they would be paying Ā£400 (previously Ā£760) or Ā£700 (previously Ā£2000) respectively, and ending up with multiples of the other things they didnāt want.
If the pendants are handmade you can make them to order. As you donāt receive anything until estimated December 2019, that allows at least 13 months to make them. They were previously charging Ā£55 for the pendant (worked out by subtracting tiers = Ā£190-Ā£135). Now you would need to pledge the Ā£100 tier for a pendant, with the previous tier being Ā£90 - this means the pendants are only worth Ā£10!!! But they were trying to charge people Ā£55 on the failed Kickstarter!
If the pendants were an add-on for Ā£10 (or even thereabouts) you could get them all for Ā£40, instead of paying Ā£400 and ending up with multiples of everything else. More people would be willing to give a relatively small amount money to get something different in return, but few people, if anybody, would be willing to pay a huge amount for a cheap item just to end up with unwanted multiples of the other things too.
Statues
The statues are also handmade but they too should be an add-on item. In the comments of the second Kickstarter, Peter says that the statue would not be possible as an add-on due to Kickstarter being unable to have limited add-ons. Why not make a new tier with justĀ the statue and remove the tier with the music + statues. This would be more useful for the pledgers, but less useful to the people running the project as they couldnāt forceĀ people to pledge more money to get a statue (with probably unnecessary things too).
The statues look so unproportionate, dumpy and off model. They arenāt even the same size so if you got both they are going to look very odd put together (Lara statueās is one inch taller than Kurtis). Kurtis is taller than Lara, but obviously Lara is the more prominent character - making them the same size would be a sensible compromise.
It would have been much better to use Lara and Kurtisā AOD models and 3D print them. This would cut costs and enable them to produce larger quantities as an add-on item. The body proportions would also be correct and look much better.
Studio + Arranging Lesson
Previously if you wanted the statue, you would have to pay Ā£1000 and be āforcedā to go to the live studio. A lot of people might have wanted the statue but been put off by being unable to travel to London due to geographical and/or financial reasons. You were previously alsoĀ āforcedā to get the music arranging lesson, which came with all tiers Ā£1000+. Not everybody is going to be interested in that (even via Skype).
They have fixed this by making the live studio recording only going to happen if they meet Ā£180,000. They have also dropped the price for attendance to Ā£150 from Ā£500. But as they failed to meet this Ā£180,000 goal the first time, then itās very likely that none of this will ever come into fruition.
The music arranging lesson has also dropped from Ā£1,000 to Ā£500. As of writing this, the highest available tiers are Ā£300 and Ā£4,500, so this means people can give Ā£500 if they want the lesson, but will no longer beĀ āforcedā into getting it if theyād pledged that amount with the intention of getting something else.
The highest stretch goal is a live show if Ā£300,000 is reached, but they couldnāt even meet Ā£180,000 the first time around. Why do they think they would be able to meet Ā£300,000? This show would be for the āthe first 1500 top backersā but the failed Kickstarter only had 588. Both the expected amount of money and backers is completely unrealistic considering theyāve had a ādry runā at this Kickstarter already and can gauge interest.
Concept Art
The concept art was originally a Ā£800 tier with 2 pieces of art, then that dropped to Ā£150 with 1 piece, and now thatās dropped to Ā£120. Another example of a tier not being worth that to begin with if they can reduce it so much.
If youāve ever seen the AOD concept art youāll know there is a hell of a lot of it that does not feature Lara or Kurtis. As you canāt pick what youāll receive,Ā this here will almost certainly happen. You can already see a lot of the concept art for free online, so itās not really something secret or unseen before.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tombraiderofficialflickr/albums/72157668394848526/page1
(I feel like that had a different album with more but canāt find it now)
You could also buy the Official AOD Companion or Japanese Art Book on eBay, which have a lot of the concept art in too. Obviously looking online or buying a book on eBay is not the same as owning an original drawing, but itās cheaper (even free) and you would end up see a lot more of the concept art.
Advertising
If you pay the top amount of Ā£4500 for advertising in the CDās booklet (previously Ā£5000), you donāt even receive a single thing from the Kickstarter. I would expect for that much money youād get a physical copy of the CDās so you can actually see your advert. The soundtracks all have digital versions, you should receive those at the very least.
Correct at the time of writing
Current prices are correct as of now (6th November) but I expect them to be reduced again further in the future. I initially wrote this post back in October and had the original prices wrote down, so I was able to compare them to the current prices. If I have made any mistakes due to the prices changing then remember to take that into account. But pretty sure everything is accurate and correct both as of now and as of the first Kickstarterās posting.
Again I canātĀ tell people what to do with their own money and am in no way trying to, unlike multiple people who are posting this Kickstarter over and over, even hijacking other peopleās old posts to add a link to the project. I donāt agree with that or the Kickstarter itself, so just wanted to make a post that isnāt positive.
I think I have covered everything that didnāt sit right with me. This is purely my opinion and it may not match yours. If you donāt agree with me, donāt tell meĀ ājust donāt give them your money then!ā because I have not and will not, but I am still entitled to write my thoughts about this project. Thanks for reading the whole thing!!
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āLimited EditionĀ This Kickstarter also contains exclusive, hand-crafted, limited-edition merchandise ā including art prints, jewellery, and sculptures ā commissioned especially for this project. Donāt miss them!ā
āLimited-Edition Pendantsā
NEW KICKSTARTER:
āyes Iris pendant is Kickstarter exclusive. That being said if we will have a few pendants left after the kickstarter campaign we will look into selling them afterwards.ā
NOW:
āPost-KS TDAS will be available for sale in normal jewel cases.ā
āConfirmation thereās going be a SHOP after the Kickstrter [sic], but note prices will be a bit higher than the KS-backer prices.ā
-
They have been consistent in saying these things are limited and exclusive to the Kickstarter. Now theyāve hit the target, theyāre saying theyāre going to be selling the āexclusiveā things afterwards and for a higher price. Implying the Kickstarter was the only way to get the items is deceiving people into pledging just so they could hit their target. They have been very devious leaving it until the last minute to announce theyāre going to sell the leftovers afterwards. They could have been 100% transparent about their plans as leftover stock was expected from the numbers in the failed Kickstarter, but like everything else about this project itās been unclear and constantly edited.
If theyāve hit the target, then they donāt need any more money for the project. Selling things afterwards and for more money is plain greed and cannot be justified in any way asĀ āgoing towards the projectā - theyāve already hit the target. As of now (3rd Dec) there have only been 49 pendants bought, leavingĀ 113 unsold. Thereās currently no mention of if the statues are going to be sold afterwards, but considering theyāve only sold 15 then itās presumable that they will be too.
Everything has already been reduced multiple times across both Kickstarters. They seriously overestimated demand and are now stuck with all this stock. If nobody wants them for the current price, why attempt to sell them for more?
The whole point of the Kickstarter was to raise money to make the CDās. The money should be used to make a specific quantity of items for the 645 people who donated. These people have been duped into donating more than is needed so a larger quantity of unnecessary stock is produced, and then this extra stock is being sold after the Kickstarter for solely profit (even without including the price increase).
If I had pledged I would definitely feel cheated if the things Iād pledged for expecting exclusivity were just openly sold afterwards.
If you havenāt read my other posts about this project then do so:
18 hours after I made this post they added a tier for all 4 pendants and both statues for Ā£750. The CDās+downloads are Ā£45, a pendant is Ā£10 (Ā£100-Ā£90), the concept art is Ā£30 (Ā£120-Ā£90), 1 statue is Ā£305 (Ā£350-Ā£45).
Ā£725 is the price, but they are charging Ā£750. When you buy things bundled together there is usually a reduction as an incentive to spend more, not an increase.
This new tier also backs up the sums of the pendant being Ā£10. On the failed Kickstarter, Peter said: āevery penny helpsā but if this was true they wouldĀ make it an add-on item as itās the cheapest item. More people might buy one or extra ones, hence pushing up the pledge total - āevery penny helpsā after all.
Also on the failed Kickstarterās comments, Peter saysĀ āI'm not making any money out of thisā, but in the second Kickstarter it saysĀ āHe will, essentially, be taking approximately nine months off to work exclusively on this music, working full-timeā. If heās not making any money from it, how is he able to sacrifice his income for 9 months? If heās not making any money from it, what is the extra Ā£25 above being used for? He says āHaha, wish I was in a position to be able to fund it personallyā. Obviously I do not know his income or living expenses, but if he does not have large amounts of money lying around to fund the project, it seems highly unlikely he would have 9 months wages in savings that he was willing to eat into.
They say they have been working on this project for the lastĀ āexhausting two yearsā. If the project is only able to commence if the financial goal is met, then what have they been working on so hard for 2 years? Is it already completed? Why is the estimated date December 2019? (Surely this date should only be if they are getting an orchestra.) Some sort of timeline should be given so they are totally up front about when things are being done and how the money is being used. I would be really interested in seeing a breakdown of where the money is going and Iām not even giving them any.
If you havenāt read myĀ my previous postĀ [and future posts] then please have a look as I bring up many more things like these.
