#undertale commentary

somebody in the comments said “it’s crazy that Asgore can actually tank the real knife” and I know it’s probably just part of the wider glitch going on her but like.

honest to god I think he probably could. like I know he gets btfo’d in real kill everything runs but like. Asgore is not a fucking slack. I see people talking about this a lot but like. despite his kindly demeanor and his malewife boyfailure personality, Asgore is still the king of the fucking monsters for a reason. he is the strongest monster. at least in my mind. he’s just always holding back when we see him fight.

I don’t remember the exact quote but afaik there’s a quote where Undyne says about Asgore training her that she couldn’t even hit him. Which, yeah, makes it sadder that he’s letting himself be stabbed by a child, but it’s also ultimately a credit to his own personal strength in battle when he isn’t deliberately nerfing himself/holding himself back.

I think that’s one aspect of Asgore’s character I don’t see talked about in a lot of circles as much as, I dunno, I suppose I’d like. He’s tragic. He doesn’t want to be killing a kid. He doesn’t want to win. He’s only doing what he is because he thinks it might, somehow, free his people. Another comment I saw says something to the effect of “he even goes so far as to offer to let you be his kid”, which is true! He’s sweet. He doesn’t want to be the monster at the end of the journey.

But he is. And he has to reckon with that. He has to grapple the fact that his decree to kill all humans (note: don’t remember if this is 100% canon) and his momentary vitriol towards them drove his wife away. And, like, that reaction is… ultimately severe, but after seeing both your children, the future of your people, murdered, it’s at least comprehensible how Asgore came to that conclusion, in his blind fury. It’s so very human.

And that’s something Undertale does fantastically. It turns characters literally called monsters into incredibly human, incredibly real people. It’s no wonder why so many people latched onto this game and it’s characters as a fandom, it really has the deep, ensemble cast to support it.

Undertale drops us into a world where the first intro shows us a war between humans and monsters, and then introduces us to monsters as more human than the main protagonist can become. It’s characters react, often, more realistically than we, as players interacting with the world, can. When you kill everybody except for just the tiniest amount, Alphys calls you at the end of the game and says this:

She’s angry. She’s confused. It’s complicated. She has what she has. It’s somebody trying to deal with stressful, bleak, fucking depressing circumstances, and trying to, for just a moment, find some kind of positive. She still hates you. She still says she should’ve killed you. All of these feelings coexist, she’s not just berating you. She’s a multidimensional character: she’s human.

There are other examples of this, 100%. Asgore and Alphys I think are the easiest examples, given their own personal histories with tragedy and deplorable actions, but god dammit even Flowey, a character who is literally described as having no fucking soul, still… cries before he dies. His true face, Asriel’s face, peeks through in his ever-changing visage, and he pleads with you not to kill him.

You do, of course. Or I suppose Chara does. It’s not important. What is is the point that’s being made: or points, rather.

Undertale, for one, shows us a very simple truth: people who are different are human. It insists that they are, by characterizing these people so intensely, that they are made people by their emotions, their actions, their flaws and stupid jokes, their… realness. It insists upon acceptance for all people. And I love that.

Secondly, Undertale points a finger at its player: it turns that message around in the kill everything route, saying: “you killed everything in the underground except for Asgore. Watch what he says.”

He calls you a monster.

And you are one, in the most… human sense of the word.

The king of the monsters can’t see you as anything but one of his own kind. Because you’ve murdered them all.

Through him, the game is blaming us. Really, the whole point of the kill everything route is yelling at the player to stop, and laughing when we don’t want to. It keeps giving us more, and in the end when we want an ending where we… win?

No. We don’t deserve that, we don’t get to get away from this without consequence.

Undertale creates people for you to befriend, and then lets you kill them. But as players, we don’t expect to be punished for killing these people like.. we would be for murdering someone. We aren’t arrested, sure, aren’t put to trial. But Chara takes our options away. They taint our save file. You can’t forget that kind of bloodshed.

Anyways, there’s one more thing to Asgore’s character that I’d like to bring up:

He know’s about resets.

As a video I watched just now mentions, most people only really consciously expect Flowey and Sans to know about resets. That’s fair, they’re the only characters which explicitly mention them. I’d also wager some people think Alphys has some understanding of them, given Sans’ dialogue about readings and stuff during his fight implying that there’s more than him involved with the apparent detection/research into, what does he call it… fluctuations in the time space continuum? Timelines jumping left and right? I can’t remember the exact wording. You get my point, though.

But during Asgore’s fight, you can tell him he’s killed you before, and he just… nods. He’s very solemn in his fight, but this is just icing on the cake. He remembers killing you multiple times: he has enough awareness to recognize that he’s succeeded before, in his grim task, and been brought back to do it again. It’s another terrible dimension to his torture.

He’s a very compelling character to me, not just because his theme slaps, or because he looks fucking awesome. Asgore is the king, and I think he’s pushed to the side a lot. I dunno. Maybe rightfully, especially in stuff which takes place post-barrier opening, I s’pose. I just think there’s a lot there that I don’t see get talked about much. :) teehee

Credit where credit is due:

Images came from this video

Idea to talk about Asgore knowing about resets came from this video (not too hard to figure out the video subject lol):

This is -ironically- the most dividing factor of my initiative.  I went into this aware that not everyone likes to see criticism, and may be open and direct about not liking it’s presence. This is especially so when taking into account that most authors of Undertale fanworks do not make any profit off of their passions. I am well aware of this, and it is part of the reason that I want to bring these works of passion to the table for discussion.

One thing that I will stand firm on however is that I will continue to write these pieces. I will still do so with careful thought and consideration, but unless I am doing severe harm I will not take anything down. Opinions are opinions. 

I have repeated this before and will continue to repeat it going forward: you do not have to read my work, let alone agree with it. The argument that these critiques are unsolicited can be opposed with the fact that no one is being forced to be subject to these opinions. This includes the author the work was made by. They can see the title and choose for themselves whether or not they want to read it. Simple as that. 

If you put up your work to the public eye, you need to accept there is a risk that your work will be given feedback. I am well aware of this fact with my own work.

I myself am a creator. I create comics and art and I put it up online to a modest following, much like the people whose work I write about. Accepting the fact that my work may be critiqued (and sometimes not in a positive light) is necessary for me to keep a long term online presence. In fact, I myself encourage such discussion because it shows to be the impact my work has on others.

(On a side note, I choose not to reveal myself to this blog for numerous reasons, both practical and personal. Perhaps in time I will, but there is no guarantee.)

If I were to ask anything of the people reading, please be aware that I am still learning. I do not have robust experience in writing opinion based pieces, but the only way I can get that experience is to go out and do it: Make those mistakes, learn from them and move on.

For the many years I’ve been involved with Undertale’s fandom, I don’t think I’ve come close to consuming all the fanwork the community has to offer. Each comic, animation, and piece of writing is bursting with passion that made me fall in love with a game I’ve never even played myself. 

Despite this, I don’t think I’ve ever really seen any tangible pieces of commentary dedicated to these works. 

All the commentary I’ve seen had been either of the base game, or barely scratching the surface of the AU community. Perhaps it’s because many are scared of offending or hurting the creators who are mainly doing this for the fun of it, making little money, if any. But I feel that this commentary needs to exist regardless. 

As a creator myself, I always love when people take the time to say or make something for my work. I don’t get it much, but when it does happen, it’s a monumental feeling. With it, there is always the chance that what is being said is critical or even negative, but I feel that the risk is better than not having anyone say anything at all. 

It’s vital to bring light into these fan works, considering they are often the product of passion and labor for the community. To go in depth about Undertale’s community as someone’s who’s experienced it first hand, in a way I never felt able to publicly express before. Every creator has an impact on what they make, and I believe that should be seen by them. I know I would want that for myself. This is an attempt to make that a reality. 

Perhaps this will also start more conversation in the community, and perhaps bring it together in a way I may or may not expect. Only the future can tell. 

If you want to support this endeavor, please share the work that will come with the people around you. Start a conversation. You don’t have to agree with anything I say; that is not my goal.