Tony's tumor in ultimates is an infinity stone? How does that happen exactly?
ANON, I have had this post sat in my inbox for at least a year now, and I never answered it because I got so excited to write it but I kept faltering on how to do so.
HOWEVER, blessed book club has finally lead me to I think the best answer to this question canon can provide. (This post is also going to use some of the panels and thinking from THIS fantastic explanation by @copperbadge, however we come to different end conclusions)
TW: Artistic depictions of surgery, Discussions of suicide, Frequent mentions of Terminal illnesses
STOP READING HERE IF YOU HAVEN'T READ PAST ULTIMATES COMICS: THE ULTIMATES 28# YOU WILL BE SPOILED.
(If you make it to the end however there’s a little surprise)
To begin with, its good to know what just what an infinity gem is (comics uses gems over stones, I’m not sure there’s actually a difference).
Because earth 1610 is a never one to slack, it had EIGHT gems rather than five, and Susan Storm works out that Gems are formed by earth changing events. While the comics only really clearly details a few of these, it's not too hard to work out possible others.
[From Ultimates Comics: Ultimates #25, 2013.]
This gives us half of the gems. The earths formation is most likely what plonks the power gem right smack dab in its core, Reeds destruction of Asgard in The City forms another, that's two more. So we’re left with two to go, and one of them is smack bang in the middle of Tonys head. (We can assume Anthony is not any of these other gems, because Sue doesn't know of his existence)
Now we’re entering theory territory, but hear me out. While most of the gems are found sort of in and around the things that created them, Anthony seems to form an interesting point that he's IN Tony’s head. We don't get many clues about Ant’s specific growth, since we only find out what he is as he’s being removed, but Reed gives us one big ambiguous clue:
[From Ultimates Comics: Ultimates #27, 2013.]
This is a comic book, so he doesn't actually explain this story. However this is enough of a clue with Tony to look at different points in canon Anthony could have formed. For instance, Tony has attempted suicide in the past, It could come from his cancer forming, or when Natasha Betrayed him, or when his brother dies.
Cross reference these events by looking at possible world shifting events linked to them, and the most damning one I found was Greg. And the timing fits PERFECTLY for Anthonys development. Greg’s death comes as the result of him slowly creating and selling off super human secrets across the globe to stage pro-democracy rebellions, in order to put himself in centre stage as someone controlling the globe. He also engineers himself some nanobots in a way that essentially gives him the powers of a god, he is even able to wield mjolnir with ease. In a couple hours Greg changes physics and entire areas of the globe.
[From Avengers vs New Ultimates #6, 2011.]
At the same time Peter Parker is killed as a result of being attacked by the sinister 6, shifting the faith of many people in Super heroes, this may have also contributed to the volatile state of the world
In the end, Thor ends up killing Greg, despite to Tony’s evident distress and believe that Greg didn't need to die. Tony very clearly loved his brother a lot, bonded as many twins are despite the clear dysfunction of their relationship. I think it is this time period of likely intense grief and depression that gave the gem a place to form in Tony, he had been right at the epicentre of this event, right where a gem could find a now missing spot in his head for his brother and form up, attracted to his grieving. It’s right after this that Anthony first develops, after Steve has run off the the desert to have feelings and Thor likely distanced himself from Tony’s choice to talk to Ant, give him a chance, comes from extreme loneliness.
[From Ultimates Comics: Ultimates #11, 2013.]
This shows where Tony finds out his cancer has returned, and you can see a big, white, circular lump on the scan, deep in his head, right where Anthony is later pulled out of. Tony had already been receiving chemo before Gregory died to try to combat his cancer, and it's likely discovering that it hadn't worked and the mass in his brain had just got newly bigger, Tony decided not to continue treatment. His symptoms suggest a blend of grief linked mental illness, and him beginning to speak to Anthony.
Why does Tony never discover a big old lump of gem in his skull? Well, Anthony is quite sweet, and Tony seems to take to parenting him on instinct. They make a deal: If Ant agrees not to grow, Tony won't continue treatment. Without digging Tonys brain open and looking, It can be pretty hard to tell what things are on scans. So if every time Tony had a scan, Ant didn't grow, then Tony had no reason to go looking really. And I doubt he’d really want to, Tony adores Anthony, why wouldn't he love a mental manifestation of his childish self? Someone without any of Tony’s stresses, still innocent and bright, a time likely before Tony felt his own brother begin to pull away from him when they were children.
[From Ultimates Comics: Ultimates #22, 2013.]
SO that's where I think Anthony comes from, a blend of Tony’s intense depression and grief along with the entire world shifting from his brothers reality bending mental break, boiling up and forming something extra ordinary right in Tonys own Skull, completely unnoticed till Reed Richards finds him and takes it all away again.
[From Ultimates Comics: Ultimates #22, 2013.]
I know it could be potentially argued that what happened with Greg isn't such an earth shattering physical event as the others given, but I’d say that it is, even if it wasn't physically. It's never defined what gem Anthony is, he's just shiny and orange. It's possible Anthony could be the Soul gem or the mind gem as he has his own independent consciousness. Both of those could be formed by the massive mental shifts that occur as Greg dies. Several governments topple, and all of America is faced with the horror of finding out Spider-man has died. Tony himself has to shift from being a twin, part of one soul, to being on his own. His reactor even splits right down the centre.
[From Avengers vs New Ultimates #6, 2011.]
If you managed to get through reading all of this, here’s a little surprise Anthony to thank you. He’s having a sulk because Tony still won't build him is own suit, meanie.
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Mcu has made me depressed. Got any nice ultimates headcanons you like to share? Please
Anon I love the MCU but I know how you feel. MCU should always be taken in safe doses and supplemented by other universes for a happy diet.For Ults HC’s you’ve come to the right place. Most of the active members of the Ultimates discord can attest I come out with one about every 5 minutes or so, but here's a few of my favourites:- Tony takes his coffee black and his hair, but surprisingly Steve secretly loves all the sugary Starbucks blends and concoctions. However, Captain America can't be seen ordering a Unicorn Frappuccino, so Tony orders for him and vice versa, and they swap under the guise of Steve finishing it because Tony didn't like it.
- If/When Anthony the magic tumour kid gets to be corporeal and Tony and Steve take up parenting him, he also sometimes orders things that get passed on to Steve, because Ant has always taken to copying Tony and he thinks he’s sneaky. He isn't but Steve appreciates it a lot.
- Tony knows a lot of languages. A lot. One of them is French, and boy does that give Steve some very conflicted feelings.
- Steve is convinced something will go wrong when he introduces Tony to Bucky and Gail. But Tony is nothing but charming and he and Bucky become fast friends. Steve is pleased but very swiftly realises this could be a mistake when Bucky starts telling him how Steve went about courting Gail.
- Tony knows every partner dance under the sun, he's well versed in how to flirt with his feet and Steve gets very very jealous watching him dance with women at galas, though it takes him bit to admit he’s jealous of the women and not Tony. Steve is rarely ever covert though, and Tony corners him later to dance, which ends up being in a backroom or hallway somewhere because Steve doesn't want to step on Tony’s toes in public. However when he stops trying to lead and lets Tony do so, its surprisingly easy.
- Ults Tony is a bit of a canon daredevil, he's a certified Diver and he’s introduced Climbing Everest without Ironman it seems. This adds up to mean Tony is pretty competent out of the suit and in the wilderness, you don't climb mountains without survival knowledge after all. Naturally, nobody expects this, especially not Steve till he’s confronted with it. Steve probably finds strength and competency pretty hot.
- The Goo in Tony’s suit is literally Lubricant. That’s not even a HC that's canon I just wanted to share.- Steve and Anthony get surprisingly close when left with each other when tony has to work. Ant likes being able to actually teach someone things since Tony is encouraging but he already knows everything Anthony knows. Tony has come home a couple times to see Ant sat between Steve legs gesturing at books about dinosaurs and space while Steve nods along.
- Tony has also had near heart attacks when he returns to Steve throwing Ant across their bedroom onto piles of pillows on their bed because Ant misses being able to fly like he could in Tony’s head. He appreciates the feeling and if this means Ant stops bugging him about a suit he’ll take it but he’d appreciate a warning next time.
- Ignoring Canon and If Greg just continued to be an asshole who tried to undermine Tony from across the globe, Introducing him to Ant would come with some heartbreak. Ant is a manifestation of Tony’s ‘childishness’ and he probably has a lot of Tony’s childhood memories up to the age he appears (I’d say around 8-10) and thus, he's got all of the memories of greg as his brother and friend, but not of the future fall out. Therefore when Ant tries to meet Greg with open arms he’s probably met with very unexpected coldness.- However This also opens up potential Greg redemption, Still working things out with his twin but showing up randomly to throw gadgets at his Nephew. with plenty of scathing remarks so they don't get too comfy, such as “Hi Anthony, has your father learned how to use ladders yet or is he still jumping off rooves?” Now this list is looking pretty long so I should stop before I go so long nobody want’s to read them all, but thank you for the opportunity to ramble Anon!
@skyearth85 replied to your post: I always was amazed about Gregory didn't get Stark...
How Howard and Maria died in Ultimates?
Honestly if I could tell you I would! But there's so much conflicting info about Maria and Howard in ults it’s a little hard to even build a theory.
We hear multiple things about them, Tony doesn’t like his father thats clear, but the rest is really sketchy as to what is canon and what's not.
In ults 1 Tony mentions buying his town house home for his mother
and this suggests that Tony was making money, and therefore part of the business before his mother died.
In the Orson Scott Card retconned history for them Maria dies in childbirth.
And in the Mandarin run for Ults it appears Maria is either dead or she and Howard are divorced.
SO, you can see why it's a little hard to build an idea about whats going on with them, because I'm a big nerd who likes to connect things to canon as much as I can. My best guess is that Howard and Maria get divorced as Tony and Greg were growing up, and that Howard either inducts Tony to the company before they die or Howard dies first, and Tony continues to stay in positive contact with his mom.
@festiveferret replied to your post: I always was amazed about Gregory didn't get Stark...
You forgot the part where Howard continuously forgets he has two sons!
OKAY BUT I ALSO TECHNICALLY DIDN’T, I did mention that canon repeatedly forgets Greg exists unless he’s explicitly in the run and HOWARD AND GREG DON’T EVER SHARE A RUN. I just didn't explicitly remember to say that thing.... Wait, never in the same image....
...maybe Greg IS HOWARD
@zinfandelli replied to your post: I always was amazed about Gregory didn't get Stark...
I like the 3rd idea! This lawyer in my area named both of his sons after him. John and John. So older John adopted Alex for a name and young John became Jake. So. Its pretty within reason sounding to me! Gregory would be so bitter and petty about it too lol
I’ve known a couple sets of twins with obscenely close name and seen parents dress them identical (why would you do that, you’re just asking for a zack and cody style incident) so it didn't seem outside the realm of possibility for this, plus this is ults, you get an extra leeway bar of stupid to fill.
I like them all but it is extra fun and gives Greg a bit more of a reason to be a giant bitch all the time. He’s petty about EVERYTHING and I love it.
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I always was amazed about Gregory didn't get Stark Industries; I mean, he's more smarter than Tony. And why did Howard choose Tony? Didn't Greg get anything? Maybe the Stark family have more than "Stark Industries", I think they have more, and maybe Greg got something similar or equal to "Stark Industries". Does Ultimate universe explain it? Maybe I'm forgetting something. Or maybe there's no explanation about it.
They don't ever explain it, but I have a couple theories ranging from sensible to a little wacky as to why Tony, and not Greg, got Stark International.
Explanations and theories under the cut because of length and possible spoilers, you’ve been warned.
The first and simplest theory, is they probably got split shares in the company and Tony found a way to charm everyone into giving him a controlling share and enough power to shove Greg off the board. Greg is clearly more ruthless than Tony about building weapons, cares less for human life and more about who he can sell to and that might have scared a weak kneed board into siding with Tony and ousting him before Greg could do it to them.
The second longer theory, stems from the fact while Greg is supposed to be smarter than tony, its abundantly clear they are different kinds of smart. Greg may be a technological genius, but he's an absolute asshole to people, and part of business is who you can charm, not just what you make.
While you can put some time into considering if maybe this is a mental thing for Greg, he very much could be a sociopath, I like to also consider how he and Tony may have been raised. Theres a couple hints as to why it may be possible Howard liked Greg more, he came first, and for some reason rather than the traditional Anthony, Ults Tony is supposed to be Antonio when authors aren't forgetting it. A possible theory for that I’ve been told before is that maybe after he got to name Greg in a more American way, Howard didn’t care quite so much what Maria named Tony, letting him have the more traditional Italian name.
With this, it’s possible to wonder that maybe Howard just liked Greg more, and when the boys were old enough it was clear Greg was a bit smarter, Howard put his focus into training Greg to take over, and Tony got pushed to the wayside a bit. This would explain how ults Tony seemingly act’s different to a lot of Tony’s in the multiverse, he may have got more time with his Mom, less bullying from Howard and that gave him the lush and affectionate personality I love dearly. Tony’s still a certified (by several PHD’s) genius in his own right, and just because Howard wasn't strict on him doesn't mean he wouldn't learn. However while Tony was learning to be the charming soul he is, Greg might have been under Howard’s purview and he may have thrived on the strict attitude and cold soul Howard wanted him to have, creating the more callous and rude man.
However by the time Howard brings them to the business (Probably bringing Tony too under Maria’s request) It might begin to be clear that Howard teaching Greg he owned all and was above all else may have been a bad thing. It might be Greg doesn’t know how to handle people outside a power exchange, struggles in functions and around new people. Howard taught him to act like he’s king of the world but before he actually got the crown, so he hasn't got the skills to endear people to him. Tony however is charm incarnate, he gets people on his side left and right with jokes and compliments and clearly has the attitude a successful business man might need. And if Greg is the cleverest man alive well Tony is the second.
It’s canon Tony goes off to build his own business and is dragged back to take over the company by Howard (Though this run completely forgets Greg, like every single Ults run he’s not directly in, thanks Marvel) So its possible at around 16/17 Howard starts to realise it may actually be Tony he should be handing the company to and not Greg, and so he starts to focus on pressuring Tony and teaching him how the business world works while an angry Greg gets shoved to the wayside to work on his own things.
And then, by the time Howard dies and his will is read, everyones a little shocked to see Tony’s name to take over rather than Greg, because Howard finally realised that maybe his idea of the perfect CEO wouldn't actually be a good idea for the company, and Greg is smart enough to build his own business. This may seem mean, but this is the ults verse, it’s very possible Howard is even meaner.
The third and most ridiculous crack-ish theory, can be also be blamed on @festiveferret because we came up with it together, and that is that maybe, Greg was actually called Anthony. This might seem ridiculous but we’re looking at the verse with the tumour child so suspend your disbelief for a minute. Ults is the king of poor continuity, just all over; Tony is called Antonio, then Anthony, he’s an only child then he’s not, Steves family die after he goes into the ice then he’s an orphan. Let’s be honest I’ve possibly read more canon than some of the ults writers.
But it’s the first two that kind of stick out, it wouldn't be impossible for Howard to demand to name his first child Anthony, and the second Antonio, he’s an ass like that. Theres also the fact we really don’t know if Tony and Greg are identical or fraternal twins. The fact Greg is blond makes it natural to assume they’re fraternal twins, but they are scarily similar looking in some cases, such as the above image. Their eyes are the same, and their facial structure, and in that run in particular Greg's eyebrows and beard are both black, and not blond like a natural blond would have. Greg is a very petty seeming man, not above dying his hair AND beard if it made him look less like his brother.
And thats where this theory kinda stems from, If both of them had looked near identical, and both of them had incredibly similar names, it’s not beyond reason people might have just forgotten about Antonio and kept calling them both Anthony, repeatedly, which you can imagine Greg would have hated. Greg would have abhorred being mixed up constantly with his shameful brother, and them both being considered the same. So maybe Howard did favour him, and maybe he was named as the successor in his fathers will, but what if young Greg had moved to England, changed his name, dyed his hair and set up his own company just to be set apart from his brother, cut off all contact from the family so he could one up them in the way Greg seems always desperate to do. But if Howard had died while they were young like in other canons while Greg was trying to distance himself, it’s possibly Tony may have been handed the company under mistaken naming and by the time Greg managed to contest it the board may have decided they liked Tony better, which would be a way to explain why Greg is so so bitter about it.Is this ridiculous? Of course. Is it logical? not at all. Is that completely in line with ideas for ults canon? Abso-fucking-lutely.
So to summarise, Ults never clears this up even slightly, but I adore Tony and Greg’s relationship, and I think Greg is the biggest bitch out there and it’s fantastic, so I've thought about a lot of possible ways this could have gone down.
