âYouâre right...â
S6/E9Â âThe Battle of the Bastardsâ S7/E3Â âThe Queenâs Justiceâ
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âYouâre right...â
S6/E9Â âThe Battle of the Bastardsâ S7/E3Â âThe Queenâs Justiceâ

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I like the idea of ââpolitical jon and undercover jon, although I have to admit that I like the idea of ââundercover jon more, because in the theories that I have seen, he at least has a plan, political jon sounds more like jon is acting as time goes by, and it sounds more like reactionary jon, rather than a king acting politically, with a long term plan that benefits his nation, but that is my point of view. in my opinion he was not even responsible for making dany decide to go north, because
(2) it was cersei and her promise that she was going to help them that made dany go north, the only thing he did when dany said she was not sure What to do, was to say we are fuck. I see undercover Jon, not as a person who decided to betray Dany from the beginning, but more that he saw her attraction for him and decided to use it in his favor, he knelt because he knew that the North would not support him and neither he was going to force them to do it, and he knew that that was going to keep dany Â
(3) more enthusiastic (I do not think Jon thinks he can convince them, or that an agreement can be reached, I think Jon was sincere when he said that his people were not going to support a southern queen) and was planning to sleep with her from the moment she said she wasnât sure to help them, to see if her feelings for him were enough to convince her. the only thing that worries me about both theories is that he knows dany was raped and sold, and I donât know if he would be able to use a woman     Â
(4) after knowing that, and in both theories he is doing it. Â Â Â Â Â Â
Dear nonny,
if I understand you correctly, you would distinguish between âUndercoverâ and âPoliticalâ and maybe âSacrificialâ Jon. âUndercoverâ would be Jon in cohots with Sansa and a plan to go undercover, seduce DaâŹnerys for her dragons. âPoliticalâ would be Jon having as a main goal to the the dragons and adapting to the problem, that he has to somehow persuade DaâŹnerys to commit to a cause despite her being all about âbend the kneeâ. âSacrificialâ Jon would be Jon not giving a fuck about what happens to him, since he thinks heâll die anyway. Heâll sacrifice anything, his own honour, the independence of the North, just as long as the North and Winterfell are protected.
Looks like Jon is going to bend the knee to Cersei in season 8.
John Stark and: âLive Free or Die.â
So, this is a meta (I thought it was gonna be small, but it ran away from me- oops) on why I do not believe Jon Snow has actually bent the knee.Â
We all know that the Northerners in Game of Thrones- and A Song of Ice and Fire, have fought long and hard for their independence. We know that it was out of character for Jon to bend the knee to a foreign ruler he hardly knew. Thereby sacrificing the Northâs hard won independence and his own power. Power he didnât want, and definitely did not want for his own sake. But power that gave him a greater ability to defend his beloved home, the North, and his family. The same family that he has canonically, in both the show and the books, been shown to abandon honor and duty for in the past.Â
We know that A Song of Ice and Fire draws a great deal from history. The weapons, from Valyrian steel to wildfire are based on ancient weapons we have been unable to recreate in the modern day. The struggle for Westeros is specifically meant to mirror The War of the Roses. The First Men = The Celts, The Andals = The Angles and Saxons. A big issue in the series is the conflict between the nobles and the small folk, and a glacially paced transition to a more democratic system.Â
So, when I was reading up on the source of my state motto:Â âLive Free or Die (This is New Hampshireâs motto, for those who donât know) I was struck by the similarities between General John Starkâs story and Jon Snowâs own story line. And I think it will be hugely ironic if George Iâm a Huge History Nerd RR Martin, didnât base Jon off this guy, at least partially.Â
John Stark was born in Londonderry, New Hampshire. When he was a teenager he was captured by a group of Abenaki Native Americans and brought all the way to Quebec, Canada. While there he and another captive were forced to ârun the gamut,â as in charge a line of armed warriors. He surprised one of the men, stole his spear and attacked. The Abenaki were reportedly impressed by his bravery and quick thinking and adopted Stark into the tribe. John Stark was ransomed later that year and sent home to his family.Â
Later, John Stark fought in the French and Indian War as a member of Rogerâs Rangers. He was second in command to Robert Roger and gained a lot of experience fighting in the war. However, when the Rangers were ordered to attack St. Francis, Canada, Stark, refused to join the attack as his Native American foster parents resided in St. Francis. He instead, returned home to his wife.Â
 John Stark later fought at Bunker Hill and reached the rank of Brigadier General in the Continental Army. He later resigned his post because he was disgusted that a less experienced general got a promotion over him. Then he accepted a post here in New Hampshire as Brigadier General, but only on the condition of, wait for it:
Not having to ever answer to Continental Army authorities. (Gosh, I really like this guy) He served with distinction in the battle of Saratoga and became a war hero for his work and famous rallying cry: "There are your enemies, the Red Coats and the Tories. They are ours, or this night Molly Stark sleeps a widow!"
Our motto comes from a letter he wrote to his comrades after his retirement saying, âLive free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.âÂ
In short: this guy was a badass. Â
But, can you see now where Iâm going with this? They both grew up in a northern state. They both were captured by and adopted by a people living in what could easily be called the far north. They both learned to respect those people and then later fought against those same people. However, when push came to shove both Jon Snow and John Stark could not forget their love and respect for their foster family. They both served as member of a rangers group and were disgusted by the politics that plagued their society. Â
Also, JOHN STARK.
So, for Jon Snow to bend the knee to someone who does not truly know his people- regardless of whether they help with an overwhelming threat, have a technical right to rule, or the best of intentions, it would be a huge departure from his characterization. Whether he has any affection, like many non-Tory colonists did for Great Britain, for this aforesaid foreign power it would be enormously strange for him to bend the knee.Â
But- it would not be out of character for Jon to act the fool. To lie. To gain the trust of his current enemy. Like he did with the Wildlings. Like he did with Stannis.
For him to bend the knee, it would take either a horrific and deliberate character assignation by the writers, a bout of canonical insanity, or shrewd calculation on Jonâs part that a lie is necessary in order for him to get what he wants. If Jon Snow has really bent the knee I can guarantee you, it wonât be for long.
(Also, sudden, idea. Ghost is supposed to be a metaphor for Jon. And Ghost not only has weirwood coloring (in other words he is Northern to the bone), but additionally, a white coat on a wolf also kinda reminds you of the phrase âA wolf in sheepâs clothing.â doesnât it?)
"If we die, we'll die, but first, we'll live."âYgritte to Jon Snow.[src]
 There is no way in all the the Seven Hells that Jon has bent the knee.Â
He might die, but, first, heâll live free.
Just something I've been thinking about since the s7 finale: that look Jon gives Daenerys when they're having sex. When they stop kissing and he stares at her. It's so strange. He's not in love. We've seen Jon snow in love and it looked nothing like that. He looked upset to me. It's kind of what sealed the deal for me on believing that Jon is finally playing dirty politics. He's manipulating Daenerys and isn't happy about it (hence the look) but he knows he has to
See Nonny, and this is why I feel strongly about what @occupyvenus calls marg!jon (i think?). lol
Because Jon isnât a ruthless shit -he has a conscience, and I think he would feel conflicted over taking advantage of someoneâs feelings for him. But I do think heâd still do it -especially with the North and humanity on the line.
I mean, we could be wrong -of course NONE of us know whatâs going to unfold for sure âŚbut considering the all-around oddness of season 7, something just ainât passing the smell test, and people are trying to make sense of it.
Itâs a long wait to season 8, Nonny! đł lol

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âBut Sansa Lied to Jon!!!!â
As a person that believes very firmly that Jonsa is the most logical, poetic, and satisfying way to end the GoT/ASOIAF series, the push back against the Jonsa theory is often centered on some criticism of Sansaâs character. Sheâs also been the subject of innumerable theories regarding her loyalty to the Starks in general and Jon in particular.
The evidence (show wise) presented commonly points out her failure to tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale before the Battle of the Bastards or for not even telling Jon how she knew that the Blackfish had retaken Riverrun.Â
I used to answer that it was a mistake that Sansa made and that Jon made it abundantly clear that he had forgiven her for these supposed transgressions so that, essentially, if it doesnât matter to the characters then it shouldnât âmatterâ to the audience in terms of judging whether Jon and Sansa have potential for a romantic future, and yet I now believe that only tells half the story. I still point to Jonâs forgiveness of her as dispositive proof that Jon doesnât hold it against Sansa in the slightest - but Iâm going to expand on why even the AUDIENCE shouldnât hold it against Sansa.
I feel like a criticism of Sansa is the result of a significant failure to understand Sansaâs state of mind, a failure to understand what Sansa (rightfully) thinks of LF, and finally the VERY GOOD REASONS why Sansa didnât want to tell Jon about LF.
[check under the cut]
Beric:Â âI'm not fighting so some man or woman I barely know can sit on a throne made of swords.â
...
Jon:Â âI am the shield that guards the realms of men.â
Beric:Â âMaybe we donât need to understand any more than that. Maybe thatâs enough.â
Jon: âAye. Maybe thatâs enough.â
S7xE6, Beyond the Wall
Cersei Lannister and Aurane Waters - A Parallel to Political Jon in A Feast for Crows
First a shout-out to @lady-in-a-song (used to be @marydri) for alerting me to this nice parallel! Hope you like what I made of it!
Ever since political Jon was first offered as an explanation for Jon Snowâs ooc behaviour in season 7 people have come up with more and more evidence from the books. And guess what: there is another one. Itâs in Cerseiâs chapters in AFFC. At the end of her arc in AFFC Cersei is betrayed by the man she made her grand admiral:
"They let Taena go." That was the best thing she had heard since the High Sparrow had said no. Taena could have doomed her. "What of Lord Waters? His ships . . . if he brings his crews ashore, he should have enough men to..."
"As soon as word of Your Grace's present troubles reached the river, Lord Waters raised sail, unshipped his oars, and took his fleet to sea. Ser Harys fears he means to join Lord Stannis. Pycelle believes that he is sailing to the Stepstones, to set himself up as a pirate."
"All my lovely dromonds." Cersei almost laughed. "My lord father used to say that bastards are treacherous by nature. Would that I had listened." She shivered. "I am lost, Qyburn." (AFFC, Cersei X)
So here we have a queen who has been betrayed....
Put under the cut for length.