#dark!dany

prophecy is asoiaf is deliberately ambiguous, and if the character believes one thing than it’s usually a sign that that is not the correct interpretation. i also think the fandoms obsession with Azor Ahai goes against what GRRM is trying to do. whether or not Aegons dream will be book canon remains to be seen though it likely will be since it was GRRMs idea so i will be writing this with that it mind. Aegon dreamt of the long night and in doing so he doomed his house to destroy itself over a prophecy he misinterpreted, the conquest set the stage for years of bloodshed and the Targaryens spent 300 years marching to their own demise in trying to bring about the savior. Rhaegars obsession with the ptwp sparked the rebellion that ended the dynasty, and got his family killed and exiled. Stannis is not Azor Ahai yet he allowed himself to be manipulated by faith and this enabled him to become a kinslayer and inevitably will lead to the destruction of what’s left of House Baratheon. prophecy in asoiaf brings destruction and not salvation and we are shown time and time again that characters who chase after prophecy are doomed to fail.

onto Azor Ahai, Azor Ahai is a deconstruction of the ‘prophesied saviour’ trope, because they’re not the saviour at all they are the destroyer, the harbinger of destruction and doom born amidst a bleeding star. Daenerys is Azor Ahai and that is not a good thing for her, most fans like to play this guessing game without actually examining what this means for her, as said there’s multiple warnings of the nature of prophecy in general in the text but fans seem insistent on taking the prophecy of Azor Ahai at face value. i’m not saying Daenerys was doomed to fail her entire life but it is a self fulfilling prophecy, GRRM isn’t interested prophecy as much as the characters actions themselves, Aegons actions set the stage for years of bloodshed and suffering, Rhaegars actions set the stage for her exile and is the reason she was even in the position to bring dragons back and her actions are what is going to lead her into being ‘Azor Ahai’, from killing Mirri which led to her lightbringer being born in Drogon, to constantly doubling down on her families legacy of fire and blood, to choosing Drogon over the people of Meereen, all these choices is what’s going to culminate in her ending. Daenerys has had apocalyptic imagery surrounding her since the beginning, she’s the ‘daughter of death’ and the ‘bride of fire’, her dream before she hatches her dragons as well as the house of the undying are full of ominous warnings. death and destruction follow Daenerys throughout her entire arc.

(I also want to preface this by saying that that’s the reason I find these characters so interesting, and that this is not meant to insult any of them. I LOVE this story, and this is one of the many reasons why.)

Cersei thinks she’s the Villain Protagonist™ of a gritty drama. Even if it doesn’t make sense for things to work out for her, she assumes they will, seeing everyone around her as faceless idiots serving her narrative. Anyone and everyone will betray her because that’s what always happens in stories like this, so she won’t give them a chance to ever get there. People will move the way she assumes they will; everyone is predictable and stupid and shallow and cowardly. And as such, no one possesses the necessary skills to take her down. If she’s more ruthless and ambitious and paranoid than everyone else, she’ll get what she wants. But that’s not how life actually works, so all she does is alienate those around her, even necessary allies. People aren’t always predictable, not all of them are compliant or subservient or easily-frightened or incompetent. And if you prioritize ruthlessness and distrust, the people who aren’t those things aren’t going to see any reason to keep you around or give you aid.

Jaime thinks he’s a Cynical Misunderstood Antihero. He doesn’t need to work on bettering himself or de-internalizing his violent impulses, because he’s not the problem, it’s society, it’s people’s incorrect assessment of him. Look, he made a friend in Brienne, that must mean he’s not all bad, right? He thinks this story ends in a Public Image Rehabilitation, but he still conflates love with violence, and he still has a fucked up relationship with consent, he’s arrogant to a fault, he still insults Brienne (and just about everyone else) when the opportunity presents itself, and he never bothers trying to change that. And it’s all of this that prevents him from every truly becoming a good person. He’s so mired in this idea of being misunderstood that he doesn’t make a concerted effort to prove that he actually is. People think he’s an oath-breaker, that he has too big of an ego, that he doesn’t care about the people he swore to protect, and he thinks that simply going, “Yeah, but they don’t have the whole picture” is enough in and of itself to prove them wrong because, in a lot of stories, it is. But all his behavior does is cement his reputation as these things.

Dany thinks she’s The Chosen One, which means whatever she does is automatically the right decision. People will accept her rule because it’s hers, she deserves it, it’s morally right. All of her enemies are blanketedly wrong on all accounts in all cases. Her goals supersede anyone else’s because those goals are the way to a Happy Ending, and she doesn’t consider that other people might not see it that way. Many people’s gripes with her stem from gross places like misogyny or wanting to continue keeping slaves, but she forgets to acknowledge that some people’s issues with her might actually be valid. And that The Chosen One is actually a terrifying idea to people outside that person’s immediate personal context. She has three sentient WMDs, essentially. And if she thinks that using them is always morally correct, that the fallout from doing so can’t possibly be a problem because she’s using them and it’s for a noble cause, you end up with what happened in Astapor; and you end up with Drogon killing a child in Mereen and, eventually, her demise at the end of the show.

Sansa starts out thinking she’s an Optimistic Child Hero in a fairytale. This leads to her being held captive at court (she trusted that the authority figures were benevolent), writing a letter to her family that almost comes back to bite her to a deadly degree once her sister finds out in the show (she thought she could solve everything herself via a peaceful resolution), and to her trusting a complete monster of a boy until it’s too late (she thought he was Prince Charming). She thinks that being the Soft, Beautiful Heroine means people will love her and everything will end nicely and neatly, but sometimes instead of “love”, people just take advantage of you. And sometimes their reaction to your beauty isn’t innocent appreciation-sometimes you end up with Littlefinger. (Or Tyrion or The Hound who...let’s just leave it at “they have their own issues,” especially book-wise.) This morphs into assuming that a fairytale-esque betrayal will befall her with every new person she meets. It’s why she defends Petyr after his murder of Lysa, and it’s why she doesn’t leave with Brienne; if she’s going to be betrayed anyway, she might as well at least stick with a villain she understands.

Ned thinks he’s the Noble Hero in a typical fantasy series. He doesn’t consider everyone else’s capacity for cruelty or the idea that honor alone might not be enough. Sometimes there are no perfect choices, sometimes mercy does not give you the end goal you envisioned, and sometimes you can try your best and that can all be undone by one impulsive, unforeseeable action. You can’t honor your way out of ruthless political conflict.

Robb thinks he’s a Romantic War Hero, and thus everything will magically work out for him. His ideals and his marriage will conquer everything. But he broke a marriage promise to a powerful family, and that has consequences. The world won’t bend to his will, not even if he is doing the right thing or has noble goals, not even if he’s had war success, not even if the people at home love him, not even if he’s in love (show) or doing the most honorable thing he can (books). He thinks that being the hero means he can make it through Westeros without having to play the game, and he gets murdered for it.

Theon thinks he’s an Underdog Outcast Hero. He’ll come up from behind with an unsuspecting War Victory, and that will earn him respect, the love of his family, and a legacy he can look back on with pride. And that mindset leads him to murder two children, to drive away any allies and good grace he had at Winterfell, and the reason that the War Victory he imagined was so unexpected is because it’s completely untenable. He gets more and more desperate and it’s increasingly harder and harder to hold onto the control he’s managed to obtain. He has reasons for wanting this that make sense, and he’s been dealt a pretty bad hand in life, and he thinks that’s and his determination to overcome his personal identity struggles is enough to not only justify his actions, but ensure that those actions will be successful. And then his plan blows up in his face, he assumes he’s been miraculously saved (probably still having something to do with seeing himself as The Unexpected Hero), and ends up at Ramsay’s mercy.

Arya thinks she’s a Badass Heroine in the making, a skilled swordslady and Rebellious Princess who’s destined for more than this stuffy life of politics and dresses and formalities. But rebelling isn’t always enough. It doesn’t help with the Mycah situation, and she still needs to rely on others’ help in getting out of the city after Ned is executed. When she does try to embrace the “fully self-sufficient sword lady” idea while with the Faceless Men in Braavos, she is told to functionally discard her identity completely. She does an unauthorized kill because she, not her assassin-persona-in-training, wants to (though the victim’s identity differs in books and show), which leads to her being temporarily blinded and prevented from going on assassination missions, and outright forced to beg for food in the show. In the show, after being reinstated as an apprentice, she is tasked with killing an innocent person, refuses (rebels), and realizes that this life is one she can’t handle. She goes home, and her heading straight for her sword is one of the things that almost completely ruins her relationship with Sansa. In the upcoming Winds of Winter release, her chapter excerpt has her prioritizing revenge over her apprentice duties, and she remarks that her new identity is ruined with this rebellious action. When you rebel, there are consequences-this doesn’t change just because your intentions are good or because you are or think you are important.

Jon thinks, similarly to Ned, that he’s The Good Guy, that doing the right thing, that following The Code is paramount. He thinks that, because he’s The Good Guy, that doing the right thing with the maximum amount of good for everyone will always be a workable option, and that the heroic option will always yield the best result. This is why he thinks proclaiming his love to Ygritte in the show will end well (because love is good and conquers everything) and is, instead, shot by her several times. It’s why he doesn’t foresee a mutiny in either medium, which leads to his (temporary) death. (Let’s be real, he’s getting resurrected in the books, too, this is the one thing I’m sure of.) Because yes, everything is tense and he’s on bad terms with the Watch, but surely they wouldn’t go that far. It’s rough going, and he has to juggle the needs of several widely different groups of people, but he’s doing the right thing and that will win out; his conviction will protect him, at least for the time being while he tries to manage the bigger threat of the White Walkers. The real fight is with them, the mysterious overarching enemy, not within his own ranks. This is a story where everyone puts aside their differences to fight a greater threat-except for the times when it isn’t.

Even Catelyn isn’t immune, as she assumes that Petyr, since he’s her childhood friend, is invested in solving the mystery of what happened to Bran when he tells her the dagger used in the attack was Tyrion’s. Lysa is her sister, she can’t possibly be suspicious. She thinks the Lannisters are evil, her instincts tell her that they were behind everything, she’s the Protective Mother Heroine, so she must be right. But although she is to a certain extent correct, that’s not the complete picture. And this slightly-misplaced confidence leads her to arrest Tyrion, the retaliation of which is Tywin siccing his forces on her homeland, one of the major first steps in the upcoming political war. Then, her continued focus on saving her children-something that must take precedence because they are her children, and this is her story-leads her to taking Walder Frey’s supposed offer of a fix-it solution for Robb breaking his marital pledge at face value, despite House Frey’s reputation, and despite this neat resolution seeming far too good to be true. She’s so focused on the Lannisters-the Obvious Endgame Enemy-that she doesn’t consider the possibility of betrayal from the Freys. She thinks that the world is giving her a break-because she is so desperately looking for one, because she deserves one, because her family deserves one, and those are reasons enough for her to have one-that she doesn’t even bother to re-evaluate the situation until it’s too late.

Melisandre thinks she’s a Religious Hero, but she ends up burning a child alive and alienating one of her few remaining allies in the process (and Davos was barely an ally to begin with). She thinks she’s Doing What Needs To Be Done to serve her savior, but it hurts Stannis more than it helps him, and he just ends up being murdered by Brienne. This is obviously in the show only (at least at this point), and I don’t know if Stannis is going to burn Shireen in the books or not. Stannis thinks he’s the Lawful Hero, and thus, because according to law he’s the Rightful Ruler, anything he does is automatically excusable; he’s just righting a wrong. And in the process, he imprisons his closest friend, has a hand in murdering his brother (when kinslaying is one of the most universally hated breaches of conduct in this fictional universe), allies with a dangerous woman that much of his own court despises, and, in the show, murders his only child and drives away most of the rest of his remaining team.

Oh dear, I started drafting an answer to this and then completely forgot it! I suppose a very, very, very late answer is better than none at all...?

Anyway, how nice of you to give me an excuse to ramble about my complicated relationship with Dany for a while. I apologise, this got really long.

The short answer is yes, I was one hundred percent aboard the Dany hype train at one point, but that changed long before the show's writing really started going downhill. I actually still enjoy her character, but I went from liking her as a hero to appreciating her as a villain.

I think a lot of people forget that the show really whitewashed Dany's character from the very beginning in order to sell her as a Strong Female Character™ for feminism points. The sack of Astapor is probably the best example of this; Dany murders a lot of people (even if they're bad people) and the books depict how Astapor descends into chaos with many more dying as a direct result of her actions. Those consequences are largely glossed over in the show and the cinematic language of that scene frames it as a triumphant moment.

The closest thing to a watershed moment was the scene in season 4 where Hizdahr confronts Dany about her crucifying his father, despite him having spoken out against the very crime he was being punished for, the crucifixion of Meereenese children. I hadn't yet read the books at this point and I remember watching that scene and going "oh, shit. Did she not look into whether the people she punished were the ones who actually did it?" I'd assumed she must have done that, because after all, that's what a hero would do, and Dany was supposed to be a hero. Right?

I read the books between seasons 4 and 5 and was surprised by how much worse Dany comes off there. The books really are a lot more concerned with the messy reality of politics than the show ever was and that difference does not work in Dany's favour. Reading about her profiting from slavery despite selling herself as an abolitionist and utterly failing to replace the slave trade with a reliable alternative, I became more and more convinced that Dany was not a good ruler, or a hero. Her "dragons plant no trees" epiphany at the end of ADWD was what finally convinced me that she was a villain in the making - and a brilliantly written one at that. She may be one of the most powerful people in the world who controls what are essentially nukes, but she is also a child. Of course that's not going to end well. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. What an amazing character arc.

And that would have been that, if the show hadn't kept trying to sell Dany as a feminist hero long, long past the point where it should have started building up to her inevitable fall from grace. I kept expecting the show to stop whitewashing her and that moment just never seemed to come. On the contrary, the show reveled in Dany's violence and kept framing it as justified.

Worse, the way some - some - of Dany's stans behave started really getting under my skin. It's fine to interpret her character differently and to want a different ending for her in the books. She is after all a sympathetic character and the show kept framing her as a hero right up until the end, which is why I do have some sympathy for the people who didn't see it coming. At this point I wouldn't even really care that many of Dany's fans to this day still deny that she has ever done anything wrong, if it weren't for the fact that some of them - again, some - go out of their way to harass and pick fights with the people who criticise Dany. The times that people have come into the notes of my (correctly tagged, mind you) Dany-critical posts to aggressively attack my opinion in really nasty ways are too numerous to count. Respectful disagreement is one thing; attacks and toxicity are quite another.

Again, I promise, I really do understand why some people didn't see her fall from grace coming and felt betrayed by it. But attacking the people who did see it coming and pointed it out is where I draw the line. That is where my sympathy ends.

And like, that is certainly a way to examine a character, but fairly myopic if you ask me, in the context of a series that’s focused in a very big way on institutions of power and the effects they have on their individual and collective spheres of influence. Dany is one of the biggest centers of power in the entire series with entire geographical regions under her control, with a potential reach that is far greater. Regardless of her feelings or even her intentions (which, you know, agree to disagree I guess), I’m far more interested in her actions and their effects. 

“Afterward he put their crews to death as well, saving only the slaves chained to the oars. He broke their chains himself and told them they were now free men and would have the privilege of rowing for the Iron Fleet, an honor that every boy in the Iron Islands dreamed of growing up. “The dragon queen frees slaves and so do I,” he proclaimed.”

(ADWD, Victarion I)

I saw her video! She makes a good argument, but I can't say I'm convinced. Arya just doesn't interact in any way with anything Daenerys-related. To me her arc is very much about revenge, the trauma of war, identity and getting back to her family. I don't think she has any business killing anyone important. This plotline of her becoming a ninja assassin that could then dispose of anyone she doesn't like always seemed very deus-ex-machina to me, I mean, talk about being convenient. There's a reason why George imposed a limit on the accessibility of Faceless Men (they're supposed to be SO expensive even kings would have trouble paying the fee) - because it would be extremely silly for them to be running around killing whomever.

And what thematic purpose would it serve for Dany, one of the major characters of the series, to have Arya kill her? Dany doesn't even know or care Arya exists. She may be a fan favourite, but it seems unfair to have one of your most developed characters and prophecy girl be killed by someone random to her. At least Jon Snow killing her makes some thematic sense, he is the secret Targaryen heir to throne and possible love interest, her rival/relative/lover.

I used to think that was going to be her end because of the whole Azor Ahai - Nissa Nissa imagery. The legendary hero tempers his sword* in his wife's heart in order for said sword to acquire magical properties that will help end the Long Night. But then, further east, you have the legend of the Blood Betrayal, where the Bloodstone Emperor slays his sister, the Amethyst Empress and ushers in the Long Night.

So, basically, the same act, the killing of a woman (close to the slayer) is supposed to both bring about AND end the Long Night? Seems like both acts are equally evil to me. And Davos agrees with me, what with his whole debate with Melisandre about sacrificing Edric Storm for "the greater good". So what if Azor Ahai and the Bloodstone Emperor are actually the same mythical figure and not at all heroic? I don't know.

Which is to say that maybe Dany won't die sword-in-heart. Maybe she'll have a moment of clarity where she realizes that Westeros would be a better place without her on the Throne, sacrifices herself against the Others and, in death, is revered as a hero herself.