*gasp* I just started watching this drama and thinking to look it up on Tumblr and saw your familiar name. Hello there! :)

HIII

Oooh, I totally missed that. Great analysis here! I like to imagine that there are more to Kingsman that what was shown to us. I mean, logically, there are probably more divisions in the Kingsman organisation and I like to think that there is one that specialised in planting spies / relations in the governments to deal with necessary whatnot when the needs arise - that could be founded / suggested by Churchill himself.

Thanks! 

I like the idea of there being more divisions of Kingsman. I’ve never thought that far (tailors fighting with umbrellas appears to be as far as my brain can stretch things on its own apparently) but that sounds totally reasonable. That could also be an explanation as to why we don’t really see any of the other agents in more than hologram form -- they are stationed elsewhere in different parts of the organisation. 

When I typed up the first meta I went on a long tangent about how Churchill might have actually recruited/assigned some of the first agents to Kingsman from the already existing spy organisations in the UK since it would be way more practical than training the tailors (who I assume also were old men since they hadn’t been out in the war) to become super spies, but I didn’t manage to tie that one up neatly enough so it had to go. Now I can’t let go of the idea of Churchill helping planting spies and creating sleeper cells of Kingsman agents around the world.

@johnlockshire replied to your chat “Martin Freeman: Yeah, I wouldn't mind if we were going further with...”

Yeah, did martin say this or is it hypothetical

@thistie replied to your chat “Martin Freeman: Yeah, I wouldn't mind if we were going further with...”

When did Martin say that??

It’s a quote going around for ages here on Tumblr. There are many posts with it and it’s attributed to him but I don’t know if he really said this.

Some tumblr posts for example:

http://getthefrigginsalt.tumblr.com/post/17320847426/everyones-been-asking-us-if-were-going-any

Am still not entirely convinced and not be salty about it, but will take this into consideration. X

I can totally get feeling ambivalent. I think I see what they were going for, but also the complications it hits in conveying that to the audience.

I think it’s clear their goal was for Mary’s death not to just be a way of driving John and Sherlock apart but of driving them to be better. Her legacy and desires sort of govern series 4 posthumously, and her presence to the team is still very great, as evidenced by both John and Sherlock still seeing and responding to her. The point is trying to be that she is the core of this legend, that she is who tells them to be great and be the legendary Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson.

But for one thing, that’s one of two main arcs of series 4 that don’t quite mesh. The other arc of series 4 is the Eurus stuff, which is a very very different concern. They dovetail thematically as being the two women who drive Sherlock and John to be better, Mary bringing out their best and Eurus showing their worst to work away from and exposing the emotional growth Sherlock has had, which is tied together in Mary’s closing speech. But in terms of plot motion, they don’t really intersect very well at all. There’s little in concrete events that demands Mary’s legacy be the question when investigating Sherlock’s secret sister. And so though thematically she’s still very present and her closing speech ties it together nicely, The Final Problem does feel at a distance from her agency and her legacy.

Plus it’s just a fine line. Fridging is a common issue and you can’t read Mary’s fate in isolation from it, now matter how well-meaning or well executed it is.  The line between her dying for John and Sherlock’s angst and her dying on her own terms and leaving a legacy defined by the two men is pretty slim and I can see why people would say basically nonexistant. This show is defined by men, and having its strongest woman die and in the process drive further relationships is just gonna innately look like fridging when the rest of the main characters are men. And while angst isn’t the sole purpose of her death, it is a very prominent result that does look like every fridging ever.

And yes, brainwashed is the best word I can use. Brainwashed to the point I got so mean and hateful towards the people who didn’t deserve it. That I lost good friends like @thistie. That I haven’t even noticed some of TJLCers are nice to you till you agree with their theories. And no, I don’t mean all of them. I mean people who loved Mark and Steven till S4 turned out not to be a confirmation to TJLC. I mean people who started to send their hate to Mark and Steven just because the show didn’t go their way. I mean people who behave like whiny kids, angrily stomping their feet, just cause they didn’t get what they wanted. I don’t want to do anything with those people. I’m not like them, and I’m glad that I finally woke up.

[and yup, it was like ‘John punching Sherlock in TLD’ kinda waking up.]

The Six Thatchers started and I knew in a blink that there isn’t any conspiracy and there never was. That this is the story that Mark and Steven always wanted to tell. I can’t even watch Mary’s scenes without crying my soul out loud and if it has to be my punishment for being a mean, hateful asshole towards her character and all the people who didn’t deserve it, then good, i’ll happily suffer. 

Thanks for sharing! xx