People do understand what he did. Almost everyone in his fanbase have stated they don’t support his actions but they are willing to forgive if he shows improvement.
I'm assuming this is still about George from your other asks...
Okay 1, I'll believe it when I see it. The fanbase seems very much the same (not to say no one dropped him or anything)
2, it's not anyone places to forgive him but Caiti?? And I certainly don't see him making any improvements if he brushed over what he did with a bunch of "but"s and focusing on any small inconsistency he can find from Caiti.
And finally, if people understand what he did, why is it so many people say it was just tickling or not a big deal?
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The Discord kept asking for quotes for this whole thing, so I went into the trenches and tried to quote all the important bits she said. Let me know if there are any errors or quotes you would like added. You may screenshot any of these quotes, just mention that I made them (because it was hard to do and I would like some acknowledgement askcnakdns).
Anyway, here we go:
(Extremely dicey: view at your own risk!)
"if you're looking at this stream for me to like expose and drop new drama or just anything to talk about, it's not that kind of stream" - Caiti
About the Grope
"It is fucking sexual assault, okay? I'm not going to apologize, say that it isn't sexual assault, that I'm not a sexual assault victim"
"He felt up my tits, on a couch, with other people there. He stuck his hand up my shirt, under my bra, and felt up, fondled, whatever you want to say, he felt up my tits."
"…getting called a slut and a prude at the same time"
"He felt up my tits; this touching that he's talking about, that's what it is, okay? No, I'm not upset that he tickled me, saying that he assaulted me because he tickled me, or because he was close to me, no! I'm upset because I was on a couch, 18 years old, drunk, on a couch with other people in the room, and he sticks up his hand and starts feeling my tits."
"He would have never felt my uncomfort because he was too busy feeling something else that night"
"He did not rape me either. Like it's so important to hear what I am saying" - talking about misinformation being spread
Acknowledging Twitter
"I really do encourage everyone to watch my response on it. Like, either read my response on Twitter or watch the original video"
"The screenshot that I--my recent response on Twitter--this is the only kind of response thing I'm gonna give--I will acknowledge--that was a complete miscommunication. There's a screenshot I said was form his friend, that wasn't there for the assault, mentioned our ages and acknowledged you know the situation was weird. It's a real screenshot. What I got wrong, [what] was miscommunicated was who it was from."
"It was actually from isntead of the guy--who left and wasn't there for the assault it was from the girl who wasn't there for the assault."
"I do acknowledge and own up to the fact that that was completley wrong, but again I'm saying even though it wasn't from this friend, it was yet another person in the hotel room that acknowledged the weirdness."
"he fucking admitted to doing what he did to me"
Being Drunk and Consent
"For the people saying she was drunk too and didn't consent, I didn't fucking feel up his tits! What did he not consent to. I would like to make it clear: there was no reciprocation in any sexual act. The sexual act that happened was not reciprocated."
"The only thing he could have not consented to was him putting his own hand on my tit."
Why She Didn't Do _______
"I privated all my things so I couldn't receive followers, receive clout, y'know I couldn't grow from this"
"For people saying take legal action: do you know the odds of winning an assault case?"
(She talked in depth about how she couldn't win the crying scenario: either she cried and was called faking it and dramatic or she wouldn't and would be called soulless but I'm not transcribing that it went on for 3 minutes)
Acknowledging the Inconsistencies
"And the fact if I have inconsistencies in my story, which I do and I'm not going to say that I don't. I'm, like, remembering the night of my assault, and I'm sorry that the thing that I really remembered is the assault."
"I will acknowledge that there are inconsistencies, but when I acknowledge there are inconsistencies…my whole story is out, it's in the trash, and I'm seen as a liar"
"the one thing we agree on is the fact that he touched me and didn't ask if I was okay with it"
The Word Choice
"The fact of him saying I painted it in a bad light. I'm talking about my assault. I'm not going to paint it in a fucking rainbows and sunshine light."
(about the cuddling) "It wasn't anything sexual, and I believe it was pretty tame"
The Negative Attention
(talking about content creation and negative attention) "I've lost the love i've spent so long on because of this"
She's talking about how she has no idea what to do with the clout she'll "gain" from this
"I don't want a career in content"
"It's insane. I mean watching people--the position i'm in--watching thousands of people comment on your sexual assault story; people fight each other over it; people use it as a talking point on a YouTube video or a podcast, yknow, it being made into clickbait. It's--it's insane"
On George's Response
"I could have even understood if it would have been a, 'I know we have different persepctives of the night, and i know i assumed stuff that i shouldn't have, but i'm still sorry for hurting you.' But any time again he re admits to the fact that he touched me without my consent is followed iwth a but."
"It's followed with a 'yes i touched you, yes i didn't ask if it was okay, BUT you were smiling, BUT you seemed like you would want it, BUT you seemed--' im fucking sick of it!"
Caiti paraquoting George "Here. Here is everyhting on a silver platter. Everything she was kinda wrong about, ad everything she left out. So she can't be trusted, and because I am the one pointingit out, you can trust me"
Bias
"The person he's getting to confirm his point of view is his best friend. Or the guy he called in the video? Again his friend"
"These edited response videos? He's making them with Dream"
"And I do acknowledge, this is me acknowledging, I can also be a hypocrite in this situation because I had a best friend there."
"But I would also like to point out that the two girls there, the one from the screenshot that said--that mentioned the age difference and was mentioning how weird it was, and…the other girl that was there during the assault, texted me the day after and said ' are you okay? I was really uncomfortable with how touchy George was being.' Those two girls? I met two days prior"
Power Imbalance
About the power imbalance- "I was an aspiring creator, and these were the biggest creators in the industry"
"There's creators that messaged me about their stories but say they are still too scared to do it"
"We have the same twitch fucking manager"
"If [the move] was done in a private setting, maybe I could have mustered up enough courage to say 'no I'm not comfortable with this' or to rip his hands out of my fucking bra. But he did it on a couch with other people sitting next to us, and with other people in the room. Any, y'know, any expression I did, anything I did, it was on display for other people. He took the power away from me in that situation."
"And for everyone saying 'Well you could have given non-verbal consent.' I will tell you right now, if I was given the opportunity to give even non-verbal consent, my answer would have always been no."
"I'm asexual."
On Glorifying Creators
"You don't know these people. These are people who create content to millions of people. They aren't your best friends."
"These content creators that have spent time with these people. These content creators who do know these people, have had private conversations with these people, speaking out against them."
"I was hoping to open people's eyes, I guess"
"I would never forgive him"
She acknowledges that she did not like that people used her story to spread hate
for why she came forward - "I wanted to be [what shelby was] for other people"
Let all also not forget the weird comments george had made on the topic of consent and just sexual things in general. Clearly he refuses to take accountability of what actually happened and instead wants to make excuses (shit ones). This is just a way for people to understand it’s much different after also knowing his previous comments he’s made and that he’s genuinely just a fucking creep.
A clip of George on a podcast talking about sexual harassment and consent.
Screenshot of a post from a girl name andi who came forth about the abuse she endured throughout her and punz’s relationship.
Screenshot from punz’s Twitter replying to the post andi had made. In the post he confirms that George did in fact say that.
Fucking weird thing to say George. He’s a creep and stop trying to deny it just cause you wanna watch your favourite mcyt.
without a doubt, my perspective firmly supports Caiti's account and clearly acknowledging the profound trauma she endured in a situation where her consent was clearly violated through unwanted physical contact. and I am sure this experience has undoubtedly left a lasting and profound impact on her well-being.
the problem is that both GNF and Caiti were in a state of intoxication, rendering them unable to give consent. and the complexity arises from the lack of verbal communication from EITHER party about the events that transpired during that time. GNF never verbally spoke about what was going on that moment and neither did she. I believe that GNF should’ve asked anything, clarified her age, her identity, anything. this was during the grooming allegations and especially in this time he should have been careful.
I also fully believe that it appears there may have been a misunderstanding on Caiti's part regarding the mere nature of the gathering and its implications for her career advancement or anything like that. while the initial intention was simply for friends and friends of friends to come together, enjoy drinks, play games, and have a good time, Caiti may have mistakenly interpreted the situation as an opportunity to further her professional prospects and this misinterpretation from her side could have contributed to her actions and subsequent feelings of pressure or obligation. she thought she had to endure this to meet big CC like him.
also, while GNF himself may not have verbally expressed consent to spooning, WE can imply he did and why? because of the presence of nonverbal clues. Caiti's perception of HIS nonverbal cues may have led HER to believe that he was receptive to her actions and that HE welcomed the physical contact. this might have lead her to believe leaving this situation would bruise his ego and co. so in this case, both of them are at fault for assuming, believing.
talking about nonverbal consent; for me it's crucial to acknowledge the significance of nonverbal consent. nonverbal cues can play a vital role in understanding and respecting boundaries, especially in situations where verbal communication may be inhibited or unclear. dismissing the importance of nonverbal consent is dangerous.
in addition, to me it is very very plausible to consider that handling the situation privately could have led to a more constructive and definite resolution. Caiti's decision to walk GNF to the elevator without escalating the situation implied that CLEAR communication and boundaries were respected at THAT moment. so perhaps, if she had expressed her discomfort while they were cuddling, it's maybe reasonable to assume that GNF would have likely responded by respecting her boundaries. but we will never know.
I also obviously agree that GNF should have asked for permission for everything !!! but like … would that have changed anything?
"I wasn't gonna push him off infront of everyone."
" if I were to move, that would be an obvious hit to his ego to him."
-> so to me it seems possible that clear communication about comfort levels could have led to the same outcome. it is possible that in hindsight, Caiti might have felt pressured to say yes even if she wasn't comfortable, especially if she perceived GNF's expectations or felt reluctant to disappoint him.
furthermore, Caiti desperately needs new friends. they brought her, a 18 year old who technically can’t even drink to a party where they knew everyone would drink and they ditched her there. they see her (18) cuddling with GNF (28? or 26 at the time) and they think it’s weird and message her about it THE NEXT DAY but don’t do anything in the moment ?? that’s insane. if you are friends, you should know her body language, you should know she feels uncomfortable. you should know to remove her from this situation. it is so clearly and evident that there was a lack of proactive measures for harm reduction in this situation. I can’t say this enough but it's ESSENTIAL for friends to prioritize each other's safety and well-being. therefore accountably extends to all individuals who are adults capable of making informed decisions about their own actions and surroundings. if this isn’t a red flag then you’re as colorblind as GNF.
also in my opinion, it's inappropriate for Caiti's friends to speak out about the situation before Caiti herself has had the chance to fully share her side of the story. their actions could potentially undermine Caiti's credibility and autonomy, especially if their statements contradict hers — which is happening.
this kind of “interference” (is that how you call it?) just add this really unnecessary complexity and distress to an already sensitive situation. her friends should respect Caiti's privacy and give her the space and support she needs to express herself ON HER OWN terms. I mean, her best friend said CAITI misspoke. but how would Caiti have misspoke when she wrote it down herself? I firmly believe her friend is trying to save face. also, the specificity with which she denies drinking at the party to me suggests she may be trying to distance herself from any implication of supplying alcohol to an underage individual at an official event. she is attempting to safeguard her reputation, but this is throwing CAITI under the bus.
Lastly, it is so so so so so incredibly frustrating that there was a lack of communication surrounding this situation, especially considering that Dream was actively seeking clarification and understanding about why people were upset with him. regardless of personal feelings towards him, it's fucking essential to prioritize open and honest communication. the failure to do so only adds fuel to the confusion and frustration surrounding the incident. the British group of friends involved in this scenario don’t care about anything, they’re such jokes. despicable people who don’t care about anything unless it benefits them. have you seen ANY Any any ANY and I repeat ANY of them talk about the new victim who came out and said none of them supported her when she was SAed? says so much about them.
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Why be sad it went public for Caiti's sake? She's the one who decided to make it public, she's the one who decided to use buzzwords and leave out details that took away from the narrative she set.
Her feeling bad about the situation doesn't mean she didn't have agency in how this all went down, and that goes from the start when she decided to say nothing when she felt uncomfortable.
Hi nonnie!
I am choosing to view this as Caiti was most likely influenced by bad friends rather than her doing something malicious, as I have for George.
In the following days, I suspect we will start seeing a lot of Caiti negativity, so I want to reiterate this point:
No matter what, her feelings on the matter are paramount.
It does not matter if it isn't sexual assault, molestation, groping, or whatever. It does not matter if she manipulated the situation in her favor. It does not matter if it was dramatic.
She felt uncomfortable, so we must respect that, as we would for our CCs.
I hope she finds peace with George. This could have been easier if this was left behind the scenes, but she unfortunately did bring this upon herself. So, I hope they reconcile behind the scenes and move on with their lives.
Take care everyone. Go drink some water and unclench your jaws. It will be alright
"They were both drunk" who initiated sexual touche on a girl 8 years younger than him? Personnally when I drink I don't start touching young people without their consent. And if anything like that ever were to almost happen? I would stop fucking drinking.
Dont use alcohool to put the blame on the victim or say the agressor is innocent. Don't say the touch wasn't sexual when even George recognise it. Don't say caiti shouldn't have spoke out, because it's not your fucking decision.
SILENCE BENEFITS THE AGRESSOR NOT THE VICTIM. SMILING DOENST MEAN CONSENT, DRINKING DOESNT MEAN CONSENT.
