#rromani

Ke96 asks:

See my post I’ve shared where I’ve mentioned you and some other users:

[Seeking] Advice on reworking The Hunchback of Notre Dame for its 30th anniversary

From your post linked above: Some of it was influenced by the Romani YouTuber Florian, who goes in depth about Romani culture. Since he kind of gives some points, I agree with. Which I can greatly sympathize for all of you, even if I’m not Roma. This is also to help commemorate a flawed but underrated Disney movie that’s turning 30 as of this year. Since I want to know what parts of the story need changing, at least the Romani parts that need improving.

Since I’m wanting to find some advice on how to rework parts of The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Specifically the Romani parts that I do agree is a bit misguided and ignorant at best, while very dubious at worst in representation. So if you were to rework the story(Even when you keep the basic outline of the story of either the novel or the film adaptations, mostly Disney), what would you change or alter to make it more accurate to the Romani people? As well as what do you think of the 4 notes of some of the story ideas I’ve came up with after looking at some of Florian’s YouTube videos?

Hi @ke96​

As the WWC mod team knows well - HoND is a special interest of mine, so although I am not Roma and will not be speaking to that, I got this. 

Also, I invite and defer to any Roma readers’ feedback and insights in the comments. 

SHORT ANSWER:

If you’re celebrating the anniversary, just write the version you want. You have to choose which version you’d like, that’s not our job here – we don’t tell you how or what to write. As you describe the role and jobs, or appearances and actions of the Romani cast, feel free to adjust as needed to whatever you feel is more appropriate. Just write it. You can’t fix what doesn’t exist. How do you know if it works or not, if you don’t do it? Just go do it. Everything else is getting ahead of yourself. 

LONG ANSWER / An Open Letter to Writers on Media Literacy and Introspection:

Your goal as stated is “course correcting” and better “educating” audiences on Roma in HoND. Those goals imply the authority to both know and educate, but self admittedly, you’re having trouble meeting the bare minimum for that standard. 

Your question about “reworking” or “fixing” HoND for better Roma representation is a question of media literacy. First off, why you? Specifically, why you? I don’t think the savior trope is intentional, and I know you’re self aware of it, so I won’t address it other than to say it’s there in the margins. 

As Florian has said himself, HoND has the most widely known Roma heroine, and yet its many iterations were and are written by white western men who use Roma as props. Yes, Roma are expanded in media representation and yet their representation is simultaneously often regressive and harmful in how they are portrayed. This fact is not new to Roma audiences. On writing this – surely Roma readers could do it themselves, and yet have chosen not to. Might there be a reason for that? I think so.

For the same reason I’m not holding my breath for a Thai writer to rewrite The King and I, or a Desi author to rewrite the Jungle Book, or an Arab poet to reimagine Aladdin, etc. I don’t believe that BIPOC writers spend our creative labor, energy or imagination trying to live in the stories that fetishize us. In that same vein, while I would totally be down for a Roma writer to reimagine the story – I also recognize that, believe it or not, the story might not be worthy of their time.  

As Mod Rina and former Mod Marika went over in regards to writing cultures not your own: 

“If you aren’t ready to engage with a culture and its people directly, then I think you should wait until you are.” - Marika

Now, I know you’ve tried. You’ve tried many ways – but your efforts so far just don’t stick the landing, given your goals, although it isn’t for lack of trying. Wanting to set the record straight and speaking from a position of authority are not the same thing. Because feeling strongly about something, and also having the knowledge and skillset to enact change around that are… again, different. 

So, I think your enthusiasm is fantastic but also possibly obscuring the bigger picture, which is that there is a bigger picture. It’s a hard sell for anyone to come in and say they want to re-write a story that’s progressive in visibility, but regressive in construction by… revising the story’s regressive elements NOT from the lived perspective of those portrayed. 

If you want to write it for yourself, or to celebrate - that’s great. Do it. But when an author takes on the goal of ‘educating’ on someone else’s culture, the expectations and community response will grow stronger, and it becomes a bigger thing. 

Good luck and Godspeed,

- Melanie 🌻 

We currently do not have active Rromani mods as of this post, but you can see past posts under the “Rromani” tag

To be fair, I've also seen this done with Roma people, it's always the same fucking thing. Those wannabe révolutionnaires only want to punch nazis, but never educate themselves about the cultures those same nazis are still actively trying to eradicate.

I am part Romani part Jewish, and let me tell you, i've heard things come out from so called "activists"'s mouths that could be confused with excerpts from a KKK pamphlet.

So if you want to call yourself an anti-nazi, maybe try to reflect on what you REALLY think of Jews, Roma, severely disabled folks, and any minority that doesn't fit on your civil rights inspired moodboard.

Also, ENGAGE with those cultures, it's the best way to fight nazi ideology in your day to day life ! Learn Romani, Yiddish or Judeo Spanish, go to interfaith events, try to petition for your local Roma community, we often live in terrible conditions (right next to gated communities sometimes !!!) and please, for the love of G.od, when a Jew calls something antisemitic, LISTEN. Learn about the long history of both antisemtism and antitziganism.

If you actively avoid to do that, but still claim to "punch nazis", you're no better than a white christian supremacist, and if you only condemn SOME racisms, then I fear you might wanna look deeper into Orientalism, because yes, even the Good Guys can be gross fetishists feeding off of the oppression of vulnerable communities.

But we also aren't "categorised" as POC or Asian.

We're from South Asia. But some of us have roots in Africa. Middle east. Regions all around.

But not really categorised in a way that fits that.

And labels don't matter. But Romany people are so easy to abuse—forcibly sterilise, murder, rape—without anyone batting an eye. We don't get swept up in support waves that care about us because we don't fit into any of the boxes that receive focus regarding our discrimination.

We aren't white. But we aren't homogenous. We are a culture that is a racialised ethnic group but we are also a diasporic people.

I am also Queer. I am trans non-binary (it/its pronouns) and pansexual.

And quite honestly, it's not that I am afraid of discrimination or being attacked. It's that it feels... Almost uniquely alone being a Queer Non-Gender conforming Romany person. And my people, our history, and the atrocities against us are innumerable.

And such atrocities are happening to others right now as well. And I think about how easy it's been to ignore us because we don't fit into nice bold letters the way everyone else can in the polarisation. We're thrown wherever and told to "get comfortable".

Not only do I not fit anywhere, but this makes me aware that if I fall through the cracks... So, too, must other people.

So for everyone else that falls through the cracks...

I'm holding up my lantern. You're not alone in the dark. Especially not when we have siblings and kin who are minorities that are discriminated against during these troubled and dark times.

Less us fall victim to our own unease, we have allies even amongst the cis-het white community. Not all is dark. I'm not alone.

i'm a bit late but seeing people deny the racism and orientalism of this skin from marvel rivals sucks real bad tbh.

i think a lot of people genuinely don't see romani people as an actual ethnic group and a culture to be respected which is a major issue this skin has highlighted. the comments on it being like "omg nobody cares" "she's literally a gypsy" "actual romani people don't care"

and then when the "actual romani people" speak up against it you decide to strip us of our ethnic identity because... we called out your oversexualized video game skin?

i also often see the thing about how well, she's a fortune teller. she's giving into the stereotype. and you know what? someone "giving into" a stereotype isn't an excuse for racism. there's a variety of reasons people in the real world do it. to avoid persecution in certain ways, money, survival, etc. it's not up to you as an outsider of the culture to put your two cents in.

the skin is just really obviously full of stereotypes. i truly don't think any research was put into the culture, and part of me wonders if the design team saw anything beyond the word "gypsy" and its connotations and ran with it. which sucks! i think at this point, we deserve better than haphazard sad excuses for representation. and i think telling us to shut the fuck up because we're snowflakes about it just goes to show how normal antiziganism is in all spheres of the internet (yes, even USA! for whatever reason people LOVE to argue that it's not prominent here, it's way worse in europe so american roma shouldn't complain, etc. I've even seen it be said that Romani people aren't persecuted here at all...? ugh. don't even get me started.)

the premise of scarlet witch's character is a pretty racist caricature in itself— but the reasons a lot of people give leeway is because one, there's hardly ANY romani characters in anything at all, we're stuck clinging to whatever we can get, and two, her character as a whole is quite old. certain things were more acceptable. but this skin doesn't have that excuse. opinions and insight from romani people are openly available at every cross and turn on the internet. there is no "not knowing better" in this case scenario.

i am always disappointed in how marvel treats their romani characters, but honestly, i'm even more disappointed in how fans defend blatant antiziganism and refuse to treat romani culture with the same respect as any other cultures.

As many of you may know, the Domari community in Palestine is suffering alongside native Palestinians in the genocidal campaign headed by Israel.

Though we do not know much of the Domari's struggles in detail, I can only imagine it is the same extent as the Palestinians' struggles.

The Domari Society was founded by director Amoun Sleem in 2000 and since then she and her staff have done incredible things for the Domari, including providing resources and education to women and children.

On the Domari Society website, there is information on how to send donations via bank transfer, but considering that their main avenue may not be the most accessible to share and donate, I am making this post providing a step-by-step guide on how to donate to the Domari Society of Gypsies in Jerusalem.

This method works only if you have a PayPal and/or Xoom account (Xoom is owned by PayPal so if you only have PP, you can still donate.)

Step-by-Step:

Click this [link] here. It will take you to Xoom's page for sending money to Israel (Jerusalem is occupied by Israel, so it must be through them). Make sure you are signed in to either Xoom or PayPal.

Enter a minimum amount of 35.66 shekels (minimum 10.01 USD) to send. Click (Send Now) to progress to the next page.

3. Confirm information on screen and click (Next).

4. Select (Bank Deposit) and click (Next).

5. When selecting a bank, click (Other) and it will bring you to a page where you must enter the IBAN number of the bank you want to send money to. The IBAN for the Domari Society's bank is IL040176380000002503877 (copy and paste this exactly). Confirm that the bank is Mercantile Discount Bank Ltd and click (Next).

6. Enter in contact information. It is as follows: First Name: Domari Last Name: Society Address 1: Shua'fat, Derech Shua'fat 10 City: Jerusalem Phone Number: +97225324510 Email: [email protected]

7. Enter any information required and choose your payment option. On the last page, confirm the information listed and if everything is correct, click (Send).

Bank transfer may take a few days, but congratulations! You just donated to the Domari Society of Gypsies in Jerusalem. Know that your contribution will go towards the betterment of the Domari in Palestine.

Also, most information is found on the Domari Society's website, so if you wish to confirm that the donation is legitimate you can check the bank details here: [link]