#padawan torbin

The Scene

I’d like to discuss whether or not Aniseya was violent (or even creeping or otherwise implying that she had some kind of inappropriate intentions with him?? Craziest take I've seen.) when she was in Torbin’s head. I think it has been incredibly harmful to see those claims being said because of how easily it can devolve into very offensive rhetoric towards Aniseya and the coven. I've seen how some people talk about The Acolyte, and certain takes are just super icky.

She did not exert any effort to get to him at all nor did she need to (And she’s doing this mid conversation!) Not to use DnD terms with concentration and all that, but to be in someone’s head while being aware of your surroundings and having two conversations is insane lol. Also!! If you look at Ep3, her attention seems to briefly shift towards him(?) right before Indara asks if the girls have a father. but that could just be camera angles.

If you look at the scene in Ep7, Torbin in that moment, was already quite out of it even before the Jedi broke in. He was homesick and didn’t want to be on this mission at all. This was already clearly verbalized by him at more than one point. When the camera zooms into him, he looks a little zoned/spaced out, which is highlighted by him being startled when Aniseya says his name and his surroundings changed. He was essentially open to mind abilities because of his preoccupation with wanting to return to Coruscant. (Obviously not an excuse but just to point out that the situation is far more nuanced than what is discussed.)

I do wonder if this could be either because of fear or inexperience? He does suggest that his master should be escorted inside to confront the witches but he isn’t confidently walking with the other masters. He lags a little behind and he is looking around like he’s lost. I think these are all interesting details. Does that imply something else? Maybe. It’s certainly possible, but we only have Brendok from two perspectives.

Indara also states that he is distracted because he doesn’t see the point in them being there.

If this scene was anything, it would be manipulation. However in this scenario, how can anyone fault her? The Jedi literally broke into her home to come after and illegally (as in they had no legal foothold to do so, even with the reluctant parental permission.) investigate her community’s most vulnerable and cherished population. The main aggressors were the Jedi, is it truly violence when it's in self preservation and defense? And even Aniseya told Koril and the other women to not use psychical violence because that will cause worse problems. She logically decided that it would be best to have her own collateral in the situation while the Jedi have her kids. Idk how anyone can think she’s evil for wanting to protect them. I think we can disagree with her methods but to stretch it that far as though it is evil to protect your community is insane.

I’d also like to say that this isn’t to agree with those “both sides” takes either. There’s a clear power imbalance with this situation that puts Aniseya and her coven at a disadvantage. A disadvantage that she has no choice but to work with, so she did what she thought was the better option given the circumstances. Literally fighting the Jedi as Koril or the others might’ve provoked is needless and worse for them because, as we saw how it ends, a single Jedi can take out over 50 women. Imagine what a group could do had they chosen the actually violent route.

I think it’s also important to note that Indara wanted to go in alone to not be perceived as a threat, to which Sol, insisted that the go in as a group. Which does contrast nicely with him bringing Jecki to clearly dangerous and out of her league missions and Qimir’s “You brought her here.”

I am curious about Indara’s thought process here especially comparing it to her chastising of Sol at the beginning of Ep7. Does she think that Sol may do something to anger the witches and escalate the situation while she’s alone inside their compound? That seems plausible and logical to me. However, that’s weighing against the safety of your partially-Jedi-trained padawan, but perhaps she felt confident in Torbin’s ability to protect himself. Perhaps she felt it was safer and easier to at least control the situation on her end instead of worrying that Sol (and Torbin by influence/proxy) might do something out of her control. This is interesting to think about.

Jedi Padawans are incredibly capable. With what I know about the high republic era, they already deal with actual violent dark sided cults, and likely teach about the dangers when dealing with them. I would think Torbin would act accordingly in a scenario like this. Yet, we see the opposite in Ep7.

Ep7 shows him consciously telling Aniseya that he wants to go home. That is the choice he makes, which wasn’t shown at all in Ep3. Whether or not he willingly knelt before Aniseya or was “possessed” to do so is still quite vague to me. I will explain. (Ik ppl will argue that Aniseya pushed him for an answer, but honestly not really? I don't think her voice doing the echo thing counts. Plus she waited for a response. She did not harass him until he said enough.)

It’s not exactly violence but I will talk about mind abilities which are problematic. Yes, manipulation, but not usually violence per se. I think calling it violence completely ignores Torbin’s willingness to forgo better judgement and training for his selfish desire to go home. Hence the immense guilt, the exile, etc. This is a huge theme for the show and the Brendok incident: Selfishness >>>>> Training/Better Judgement/Actually doing the right thing AND for the right reason

The Mind Control and Mind Control In Star Wars

Aniseya talks to him. Not fight him in his mind or anything aggressive like that. She talks to him. She wants to see what’s on his mind. She was calmly speaking to him to clearly get his guard down enough to do whatever spell to make him kneel.

Frankly there’s not enough evidence to even prove that her having a conversation with him is even necessary to put him in that other state. There's not a whole lot of anything beyond making assumptions imo.

I’d like to go further and argue that this was not even possession either. It may have the visual markers of it (the black eyes) but I think the behavior displayed shows that this is more akin to force stasis (like the ability to hold someone or something in place). The command “kneel” does solidify that imo, as well as Qimir’s behavior in Ep8 when he tries to get the helmet off of Osha (note how he drops to his knees and has to literally fight an invisible force to get closer.) Torbin seems to strain against the magic in both Ep3 & Ep7. Possession in media does have some physical straining, but I think there are better and more common features that indicate possession than what was shown. (Edit: Also Kelnacca's possession in Ep7 is right there to show you how it looks when these witches posses someone and it's not the same at all.)

I would also argue that this ability is separate to whatever it was she used to speak to him in his mind as well.

This is nothing like previous mind abilities scene in SW media like a Jedi mind trick or Sith domination. It’s completely new. She was seemingly able to extract basic personal information about Torbin with relative ease and without seemingly harming him or otherwise tricking him to give those details.

And note: Aniseya only extracted the information about his lineage/legacy which clearly has importance within the coven because look at the ascension ceremony. All she stated that she learned was “Torbin. Born on Bonadan. Son of paupers.” Which is truly relatively insignificant surface level stuff. Honestly I bet his Jedi records have a minimum of that information, so really who's to say how far Aniseya looked for that info?

Also!! There's very clear precedent in the way that star wars frames mind abilities based on who is using them:

Anyone who isn’t a jedi is evil and violent when using the Force to influence the mind:

Kylo Ren trying to pry into Rey’s mind is bad (Not arguing that it’s not, this was clearly depicted as violent against Rey and she was clearly in pain/struggling.)

Aniseya is evil and violent because she was speaking to Torbin in his head and learned some info about his origin, yet we actually have no idea how her powers work nor were we given clear evidence to whether or not Torbin was harmed by this specific ability.

A Jedi can use the Force without question because the people they’re using it on are bad or the purpose is for something good and ofc they are good:

Qui-Gon using the Force on Watto is okay. Well, Watto is a slaver and he’s cheating. Who cares?

A whole group of Jedi can stand in a circle to pry into the mind of a bounty hunter because he’s a criminal (with no basic rights apparently or at least basic rights that protect against the jedi side stepping said basic rights) so it’s perfectly acceptable (which is concerning imo because Ahsoka was present and an active participant for that… and like what are the adults teaching younger members of the order in a situation like this?)

and let's be clear, TCW framed this moment as uncomfortable as they possibly could. As a young teen watching this Ep, it grossed me out and I think that was intentional considering the time period. To watch Jedi do that regardless of whether or not Cad Bane is a criminal was utterly disconcerting.

And uh… not to mention the implications of how mind tricks only work on the “weak” and unprotected minds of sentient beings….

Like what does weak even entail? Because I think there are some uncomfortable implications with that…

I think it’s very telling when one is considered violent and the other is not. Perhaps that should be reconsidered. It's really all or nothing imo. Violating privacy and autonomy (as quite a few Force abilities are able to do) should be seen as unethical regardless of the wielder…

*Just to be very clear, I personally think that mind abilities are unethical and bad, and star wars does not explore the ethical issues with depicting the “heroes” or “good guys” using it. Frankly all mind abilities where any party is clearly using it for some kind of benefit that doesn’t consider the person the abilities are being used on, greater good or not, is a violation privacy and autonomy, and wrong. Period. I could maybe justify it when there is consent and/or there is a benefit to the person who is having their mind intruded upon. (Lemme find that post I reblogged where I yapped about my thoughts on mind abilities otherwise I will prob regurgitate it on here. Idk if that’s proper tumblr etiquette?)

I think that the Acolyte tried challenging this precedent by having the Trade Federation Nemoidians in Ep.1 be fearful of Yord’s threat of using the Force to get information about Osha aboard their ship and how they immediately complied upon being threatened with the mind abilities. This was important imo. I think often ppl overlook similar moments in SW media because the implications aren’t great.

I also think the show wouldn’t have hesitated to show that this particular moment was just as traumatizing for him as the guilt of being involved in the Brendok massacre. I think considering the extent that it goes to show the ugly sides of things, I don’t think that would’ve been a detail that was left out imo.

There is a whole like 10secs of Torbin meditating in Ep7 before the girls were tested. This would’ve been the perfect time to add in any evidence of trauma from whatever Aniseya did, yet there is none that I could tell. (Honestly, he could be meditating about what happened the night before, but it’s not shown which his a problem when trying to discuss whether or not the interaction was traumatic for Torbin.)

There’s also his comment after Indara brings news that the council said no to taking the girls. “But there’s something dangerous about those women. You saw what they’re capable of.” It’s quite interesting the lack of interpersonal relation with that statement, and this is the Jedi POV (mostly Sol) flashback. He does not say “Look at what they did to me.” Does he not care? Is returning home far more important? I honestly can’t say. His tone seems to be incredulous that the council said no more than anything.

I think this ties back to what I said about his willingness to go against his training. Perhaps he doesn’t want to admit to his mentor and the other masters that he relented to the “enemy”, instead feeling much more comfortable with letting the others perceive the witches and Aniseya as evil. That evil woman that did something bad to him, and not that he had in some ways complied and contributed to it.

Associations

I think Lesley and Co intentionally associated Aniseya and her coven with evil-associated (both irl and within a SW context) things on purpose as a red herring. Which is interesting because it contrasts the actual theming associated with these women: cowrie shells on Aniseya’s ascension dress/hair, the colors they wear, their cultural practices, what Aniseya actually says, etc.

“Some would consider our power dark, unnatural.” - Aniseya Ep3

I think Master Indara’s likening them to the Nightsisters was intentional to make the audience have a negative association to the coven because the Nightsisters have a rather negative association and heavy ties to the dark side themselves. This already is a sign of the Jedi’s biases, assumptions and misconceptions about groups outside of their own which may or may not be true. Let’s be honest, they also don’t know everything about the Nightsisters and can only really frame them based on their own experiences which is a narrow understanding of the full picture. And while it can be useful to relate unknown things with things that are known, it’s important to note that the two are not the same and should not be assumed to be either.

Aniseya’s coven uses literal black magic (As in color. Like opposed to Nightsister green magic), that was likely intentional along with the repeatedly teared apart scene with Aniseya transforming into the “evil cloud.” Which causes Master Sol and the audience to have a reactionary response to that imagery. This is a representation of our real world ideals about evil. Which is very interesting because most concepts about evil have deep roots in racism. It was very telling the way people reacted to her character in Ep3. Especially the dudebros.

I mean notice how the drums play when Mae comes out and Sol has a reactionary (disgusted/incredulous) response to Mae’s new mark on here forehead like… (which is interesting because spirals don’t necessarily have evil connotations)

The blackened eyes of Torbin in Ep3/7 and Qimir in Ep8

Also very intentional to keep out the details of Torbin’s “possession” and save that for Ep7’s flashback as Ep3 is mainly I believe from Osha’s perspective/memory (heavily skewed by sol & co making her think Mae is evil..) This was done to amp up the “evil” vibes for the witches. That they were wrong/bad and the Jedi did indeed save Osha from becoming like one of them.

I think Ep7’s way of depicting Aniseya and Torbin’s interaction as “evil character coerces an innocent and naive character to make a deal with them” was very intentional as well. The way her voice echoes like some stereotypical eldritch unseen evil is sooo well done to try and play up the “evil” theming. Ep3 only really shows it as “suddenly Torbin fell to his knees, his eyes turned black.” Which is also equally scary and "evil" in theming.

Also!! I think Torbin was shedding a tear because he was admitting his fear (homesickness). Ep3 seems to frame it like he’s tearing up because of the “possession”, but I think Ep7 is more clearly showing that almost childish admission that he wants to go home.

Idk what to say, but I think everything was done to perfectly illustrate and frame the Aniseya quote

We would typically associate a lot of these things with evil, yet we haven’t really been given much evidence to truly consider Aniseya’s coven with evil or the darkside. Also!! I think it’s important to note that these are associations imposed upon Aniseya and her coven by outside audiences. In this case, the Jedi and the audience.

I think some underestimate the power of imagery and association. This is media’s most powerful tool.

Oh, this is something that I don't see brought up but, I also think that the girl's lack of reaction to these actions on Brendok is telling. Children are typically representative of innocence/purity/goodness. To have Osha and Mae have no negative reaction to their mother's magic could show that there is no harm being done as well because they know what the magic does. They grew up around these women and their magic, so they would likely understand it best.

The Themes

This show’s got a whole lot of strong theming around biases + misconceptions + assumptions (+ lies) and how those things can really wreck havoc on oneself, relationships and society.

Sol repeated assumptions about the coven’s culture. His “They don’t treat the girls like children” (Ep7) and how it contrasts with Aniseya’s “She is testing her boundaries. This is normal for children” (Ep3) is extremely telling. His life as a Jedi frames his idea for how children should be treated. Children wandering about nature may be normal to him, but it’s not normal nor safe for Osha and Mae as deemed by Koril who wants to keep her children safe. Also iirc in plenty of other cultures within SW, this is not safe either. Unless the child is of age (ex: there’s the Togruta custom for of age children to hunt a creature for its teeth to make a headpiece) or is otherwise supervised in a controlled situation.

In Ep7, Sol’s incredulous “They marked her sister with dark magic” and Indara’s “Ceremonial markings are customary in many cultures.” However, Indara does concede that there might be danger in the fact that Osha did not have a marking, which is indeed fair, but I believe Indara is coming at it from an objective angle. Unlike Sol’s clearly selfish desire to have a padawan and his bias against Mae and the witches’ culture. Which is interesting because they only question Mae about the markings, and not Osha on why she has none. Which my mutual, highfantasy-soul, made an excellent post about why using a child to get a picture of a culture is incredibly inappropriate and inaccurate. (plz check out all their other ones about the show too because they’re 10/10 and also related to what I’m talking about)

Mae’s words only solidified their worst thoughts about the coven. I’m not even sure what they were thinking about when Mae misquoted Aniseya about sacrifices.

Also the irony in the statement “How can you become the leaders if you’re just children” (Indara, Ep7) is so funny… Like how can you decide to become Jedi if you’re children?? How are you judging when Sol literally explained that's what happened to him?? like I know she’s just probing Mae for answers, but idk it’s quite amusing to me the irony of that exchange lol. Regardless, Indara still does the proper thing and consult the council for guidance.

Sol's repeated biases and assumptions that are being framed by his Jedi upbringing towards Mae and how he perceives her compared to Osha is the whole story. (The butterfly scene!! The butterfly scene!! I’m sorry, but I believe this is where the biases began.)

And of course theming around choice and consequences also being very important to the story as well, which of course those choices being influenced/made because of the previous theming too.

Aniseya’s speech about her coven’s belief that the Force is a thread that can be pulled and how pulling that thread has lasting consequences and can affect others:

Osha wanting to be a Jedi and Aniseya accepting and allowing her that choice. And telling her to not make that choice out of fear. And for not allowing her to apologize for choosing what she thinks she wants.

Sol killing Aniseya as reactionary response to something he had no idea about

Sol telling Osha his personal anecdote to convince her to take the test truthfully (and how it contrasts to Aniseya talking about how Osha is special and how she’d like her to remain special) which Indara does criticize it. (There’s also a look she makes before exchanging like pensive(?) glances with Torbin while Sol shares his anecdote. Idk if that is guilt? regret? disappointment? Alas, it’s not a positive expression)

Indara allowing Sol to try a different approach with Osha during her test despite her constant reminders to Sol about his behavior (which like maybe she’s giving him the benefit of a doubt but like idk that’s too many chances imo), not contacting the council yet, or getting an actual clear understanding about the Brendok coven.

Indara knowing that it’s better to contact the council before acting, but instead considers that Sol could be right and checking things out themselves first may be a good precaution. Obviously not necessarily a problem because, again, Indara is acting on the objective interest in doing the right thing with the information she has. Regardless, the choice to adhere to that ideal instead of escalating to the council immediately had a ripple effect. Whether or not she intended it or saw it coming

Indara telling Sol that they should lie to Osha about what happened on Brendok

Sol bringing Jecki to Khofar

Etc, etc, etc. The list is endless

Before I keep writing forever…

I think everything calls back to the Rashomon inspiration. It’s a test in media literacy and critical/textual analysis. To discern messaging and biases within the show and outside within ourselves. The audience was always supposed to do the legwork to actually understand the story properly. If you came in with certain biases, then they would only be amplified by this show because you are unwilling to let it them go and open your mind. Alas, that has to be a conscious choice and a practiced skill to let go of your biases when engaging with new media (or even old media!). This is the curse of 2nd Order Design media: People will always come into a media with particular biases and as a creator you should be aware of that. Hence why this show became so divisive.

I think there’s a great deal of irony with people who hated the show with the exact mindset of Master Sol when the whole show was challenging that mindset; even through the jedi characters (mostly just Indara). The way some people speak of Aniseya and the coven as if they’re the most evilest evil that ever evil is just so….. awful.