Reading up on filial/family laws for china especially for the song/Ming etc dynasty is really interesting cause the whole filial piety thing is also a thing in my country, it's really eye opening cause coming across a lot of metas it's always almost from a western lens, e.g the gusu lan thing.
the amount of times the elders and lqr have been portrayed as "evil" and or "unreasonable" because of the whole lwj thing is always so baffling to me, like lwjs punishment should've been way worse for injuring those elders.
it's also why (something me and my friends discussed) jc sacrifice for wwx would've made wwx so pissed, jc was the heir to ymj, him throwing away his life for wwx would most certainly be frowned upon, given up yourself and your family's legacy for a (head disciple) servants son, yeah that ain't gonna fly.
it's also why every time i see someone say "well the nie clan should just change their way of cultivation" i sigh because well, that'd be a huge slap in the face to their ancestors.
sorry for my english, it isn't my first language and i had to bully my friend into helping me type this
Hi anon! Sorry for the late reply, I was caught up in a few irl stuff.
I hundred percent agree with the idea that people aren't considering all that regarding the Lan clan criticisms, but I'd argue it's not even that they're looking at it from a western lens. While Chinese idea of filial piety is largely discussed in this case (for obvious reasons) it's not like that other civilisations (including Greco-Roman and other western ones) didn't have their own versions of respecting/honouring/obeying one's elders even up until a hundred fifty or so years ago. Like you said, your culture has a certain way of practicing filial piety, as does mine, as did almost every other culture in the world because it is kind of foundational that young people obey/listen to/take advice from/follow their elders. Some label it as devotion, some as loyalty, some as righteousness, and as the Chinese did, as filial piety. So even if you don't know filial piety or ignore the context, it's just... strange not to have any other connected framework that puts this into perspective.
There are many stories that explain Chinese filial piety and what that entails in detail, especially the Twenty Four Exemplars, which include stories in which children often forgive their parent's ill-treatment and mend them by being filial and virtuous. I forgot the story exactly (please correct me in case I'm making a mistake), but there is one where a boy, Min Sun, is given a thin cloak by his stepmother, so when he shivers in the cold, he accidentally drives their carriage into a ditch. His father hits him out of anger, and then finds out how his son was being mistreated as he touches the cloth. He tries to send away the stepmother, but Min Sun speaks up for her, and she is so touched she regrets her actions and treats him as her own.
This is the kind of backdrop against which the story is written. We can argue till the cows come home about this, but a) I think Chinese people are better suited to discuss this and b) this is literally not China-specific. Like I'm so sorry but in what world can you injure your family members (and thirty-three of them!) in defence of someone who just killed a bunch of people, and then get away with it? To the Lan, the Wei Wuxian that Lan Wangji was standing by was not the man who defended the Wen remnants from imminent death and torture, he was the man who killed the brother-in-law who was trying to bring him back to civilzation, on his nephew's 100th day celebration btw, and then send his taboo undead Ghost General to surrender, who killed another group people (this time Lan and Nie), and then when they gathered with their sect leader to condemn such actions, he came and started killing again and somehow Jiang Yanli died. The only notable attack against him that the Lan know of is that one guy who tried to shoot him.
And then Lan Wangji raises his sword against his own family and elders to protect this man.
Like. Idk why people think they are being unreasonable here. Even Lan Wangji doesn't have the full picture, so when Lan Xichen asks him he says he's sharing Wei Wuxian's stand, not because he thinks Wei Wuxian is universally right, but because he doesn't know what is right and what is wrong anymore and he loves Wei Wuxian.
MDZS is a story that deals repeatedly with the problems caused by people having partial or wrong information, and the kind of power that can be weilded by controlling the narrative, and the way that narrative can turn against you. Without the knowledge of what really happened at Qiongqi path, the cultivation world identifies Wei Wuxian's subsequent outburts as the homicidal rampage of an extremely powerful man bent on disobeying the laws of society. To the Lan, he is an outlaw and a criminal. If a man shoots up a bunch of people for no fathomable reason after he surrenders his sort-of henchman who kills people during it, and then you try to shoot your family because of it, you will absolutely land in trouble, no matter where you are. The social and legal structure being different then means the consequences are different, but even today, you will get imprisoned for it unless you are too rich or too powerful for consequences.
I disagree with the idea that the whip wasn't enough because he apparently remained in seclusion for three years to recover, but then again Jiang Cheng got whipped and went up a mountain without his core a week later, so I also don't know what to think of it. I will say though, that while the Lan can be cruel, they are not cruel because they are evil, they are cruel because they are being put in a spot and there is really no other fair way out. It's the same as when Lan Wangji's father married his teacher's murderer so they locked both of them up. Like yes, that is awful, and clearly cruel to keep children from their parents, but what are you supposed to do if your sect leader marries a murderer and uses his position to save her. He didn't run away with her! He exercised his birth and position to shield her and instead ended up trapping them both.
At the end of the book, Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian's situation is different, but also similar in that Wei Wuxian is living in a sect whose members he and Wen Ning killed because Hanguang-jun is the second son and has the power to do this. And the Lan allow it! They treat Wei Wuxian a little like a scorned daughter-in-law, but situation is improving! They are unhappy because he killed people (which is, if you actually think about it, actually a big deal because he is IN THEIR HOME) but they're slowly making their peace with it! The Lan are trying their best!
About the Nie Sect, I've not seen this one, but it also makes sense on both sides. However, it is strange to think one should one day just stop doing whatever they were doing that their ancestors did for ages and ages and do something new. I think it is made clear that the Nie practice the way they do because they were so used to needing their power to defend against the Wen, but it is clearly a matter of family pride and tradition, even though it deeply affects people. I do think this one at least can be changed, but it's not a matter of "Just Do It". It will take time and slow adjustment, especially when you consider that this is the Nie speciality and no clan is quite eager to share a secret they can replace into theirs (if they would even want to) AND they will be mocked and undermined all along.
With Jiang Cheng, I don't think anger is the reaction Wei Wuxian would have, but yes, he would be utterly dismayed. It was frowned upon in general for kings/princes/whatever to lose their lives across the world because that was effectively taking out the main man and face of the empire/kingdom/state whatever. It would be especially upsetting if he was doing it as the last living male of his family. I do think it would also be treated as a slightly indulgent display of love, which would be very cute tbh.
Lastly, anon, the english language is too popular, it could do with some of us non-native speakers phrasing things poorly, and you and your friend have excellent english as far as I am concerned! <3 Thank you for taking so much effort to write this!
